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illuknisaa wrote: but don't think it will be a problem if the zerkers hit to a wall of iron because of the nades (all chaos troops have nades 6+d6 penetration)

The problem with that is that you wasted the awesome combat potential of berzerkers on things like a Rhino or a Chimera and are grouped up nice and tightly to be killed by template fire on the enemies turn. You don't get to consolodate after destroying a vehicle, so even if you destroy it the passengers disembark(maybe taking a few casualties depending on the unit) and then they and the rest of their army can let your zerkers have it with every nasty template, rapfid fire, and blast weapon they have.

Plus you only hit on 4+ if the vehicle moved 6" or less, 6+ if they move 7"+, with only one attack per model! Also land raiders are pretty common in most gamign groups. Even against vehicles with low rear armor 6+d6 only has a 50% chance of glancing rear armor 10 and 33% chance of doing real damage(which could be as little as don't shoot ) and against rear armor 11(which you will see more of with the new guard dex) only a 33% chance to glance and a 16% chance of anything good. You might get lucky with this, but it's not something to bank on.

Spellbound and Typeline know what they are talking about and are giving you good advice. Temper that with how you like to play and you should have a list that is copetitive AND fun, not a list that is just fun but gets wasted every time.



Meph

illuknisaa wrote:

Ok you got me convinced on the DP, but don't think it will be a problem if the zerkers hit to a wall of iron because of the nades (all chaos troops have nades 6+d6 penetration)
and I have never seen over 13 armourvalue (exept one time a monolith which died in turn 1 from a lucky shot from a blastmaster

Doesn't the defiler have ws of 3? Or this is this just a printing error in my dex.

That's exactly what I mean. Sure your berserkers can charge a rhino and blow it up. But then the enemy will just gun you down. You need something else that can blow up a transport to let the berserkers get at what's inside it.

And that lucky shot from a Blastmaster must have been pre-5th edition. S8 plus rolling a 6 = 14, means you glance and even if you roll a 6 after that, you'll subtract 2 [because it's glancing] and only immobilize it. In 5th you can only kill something by glancing it many many times and rolling up the same result - which with a Monolith technically can't happen, as nothing says that after 6 weapon destroyed results its gauss flux arc is actually destroyed, it's just d6-x number of results you've gotten.

And yes, the defiler has a WS of 3. Which means you'll hit anything up to WS6 on a 4+ (WS7 and higher, you'll hit on a 5+). If you were WS4, you'd still hit marines and most cc troops on a 4+. It just means that against WS3 stuff you still hit on a 4+. It's really not that big of a detriment. Sure, marines and such hit you on a 3, but you really only have to worry about powerfists doing that. Grenades use separate rules for walkers in cc and require 6's to hit.

Gun me down with what massed amont of ap3 weapons, i think thats highly unlikely. One time I was against 4 hormagaants with st of 4 with my wave serpent and thyose bugs got be pinned into a corner and one charge later wave was kaboom, you should never underestimate couple st 4 attacs