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I'm making this slaanesh themed army with seduced khorne followers. The list is like this:

HQ
125
sorcerer with lash and mark
160
Fabius Bile

Elites

130
5 posessed (i might swap these for chosen or raptors)

Troops

270 no marks*/
275 with slaanesh/
300 with khorne
15 chaos marines maybe with mark of khorne or slaanesh, all mutations from Fabius

270
8 noise marines with 7 blaster and 1 blastmaster, rhino (sorserer runs with thse guys)

168
8 khorne barzekers (fabius runs with these guys)

Heavy support

150
defiler

220
landraider (transports berzekers)

overall 1493*

My usual gaming place isnt so strict about point costs so if you got any suggestions that go over 1500 then no prob.

just sayin you need a transport for chaos marines

never ever birng fabius bile, he just isnt worth it, your better off with a chaos lord.

...and a chaos lord is the worst standard HQ choice you can get. Replace him with a demon prince.

Where's the Anti-tank? The only thing you have is the LR's lascannons, and it will be transporting the 'zerkers.

.

enmitee wrote:never ever birng fabius bile, he just isnt worth it, your better off with a chaos lord.

And why fabius sucks? Hes got 5 attacs that inflict instant death and his assault 3 gun wounds on 2. He dont feel pain. Also dont forget marine squad with 45 (without mark of khorne) str 5 attacs on charge in the best case.

Hand of Dume wrote:Where's the Anti-tank? The only thing you have is the LR's lascannons, and it will be transporting the 'zerkers.

Umm... there are also blastmaster and defiler and LR isnt trasporting units after turn 3.

jammy wrote:just sayin you need a transport for chaos marines

And what would be enough large transport for 15 fat chaos marines?

enmitee wrote:never ever birng fabius bile, he just isnt worth it, your better off with a chaos lord.

illuknisaa wrote:

enmitee wrote:never ever birng fabius bile, he just isnt worth it, your better off with a chaos lord.

And why fabius sucks? Hes got 5 attacs that inflict instant death and his assault 3 gun wounds on 2 also dont forget marine squad with 45 (without mark of khorne) str 5 attacs on charge in the best case.

Fabius Bile is a pretty cool guy, eh tinkers with geneseeds and doesn't afraid of anything.

But all kidding aside, Fabius Bile by himself is a pretty good independent character. His attacks inflict instant death and his ranged shots hit on 2+ and wound on 2+. Pretty good deal and he lets you, for 3 points a CSM, roll on random table that always makes your marines better but may make you take a couple of casualties. If you keep Dr. Bile on the roster I'd suggest putting him in a rhino with 9 enhanced marines. Your list is also really hard to read, we need to know how many members are in each unit. Like this:

HQ
Sorcerer, MoS, LoS 125
Fabius Bile 160

Elites
5 posessed 130 (You should swap these for chosen)

Troops

18x CSM, 270
18x CSM, IoS 290 (IoS costs 20 points, not 5)
18x CSM, IoK 300
15x Enhanced Marines 270
8x Noise Marines, 7x Sonic Blaster, Blastmaster in Rhino 295
8x Zerkers 168

Heavy support
Defiler 150
Landraider 220

This list is 2378 points

Edit: This list also lacks anti-tank severely. You might get rolled by something armor heavy and at 1500 points.

[quote=Typeline

HQ
Sorcerer, MoS, LoS 125
Fabius Bile 160

Elites
5 posessed 130 (You should swap these for chosen)

Troops

18x CSM, 270
18x CSM, IoS 290 (IoS costs 20 points, not 5)
18x CSM, IoK 300
15x Enhanced Marines 270
8x Noise Marines, 7x Sonic Blaster, Blastmaster in Rhino 295
8x Zerkers 168

Heavy support
Defiler 150
Landraider 220

This list is 2378 points

Edit: This list also lacks anti-tank severely. You might get rolled by something armor heavy and at 1500 points.

illuknisaa wrote:

Typeline wrote:

HQ
Sorcerer, MoS, LoS 125
Fabius Bile 160

Elites
5 posessed 130 (You should swap these for chosen)

Troops

18x CSM, 270
18x CSM, IoS 290 (IoS costs 20 points, not 5)
18x CSM, IoK 300
15x Enhanced Marines 270
8x Noise Marines, 7x Sonic Blaster, Blastmaster in Rhino 295
8x Zerkers 168

Heavy support
Defiler 150
Landraider 220

This list is 2378 points

Edit: This list also lacks anti-tank severely. You might get rolled by something armor heavy and at 1500 points.

Nice but im trying to use models i have already and tose 58 extra marines will just kill me. Only new models are defiler, zerkers and landraider. And i said points may go little above 1500 like 50-100 points not 1000, but thx anyway.

No you are misunderstanding me, the list you wrote up was 2378 points.

you added wrong i think, OP.

All he added was one squad of Noise Marines i think

Swap out Bile for a lash prince with wings. This gives you a second lash, and a little more tank hunting ability. Also it gives your opponent a big target to look for while your marines advance. The winged lash prince comes in a 5 points less than Bile also.

Maybe look into sqeezing out some points for rhinos on your marine squads.

Nenya97 wrote:you added wrong i think, OP.

All he added was one squad of Noise Marines i think

They are on the original list, under the three squads of CSMs and above the Zerkers

illuknisaa wrote:overall 1493*

Typeline you should really check your eyesight.

Dual lash is nice but I dont want to be mean so Fabius stays and thats final.

illuknisaa wrote:

illuknisaa wrote:overall 1493*

Typeline you should really check your eyesight.

Dual lash is nice but I dont want to be mean so Fabius stays and thats final.

Then lets look at the incorrect math of your original list for just a second.

HQ
125
sorcerer with lash and mark
160
Fabius Bile

Elites

130
5 posessed (i might swap these for chosen or raptors)

Troops

270 no marks*/
275 with slaanesh/
300 with khorne
15 chaos marines maybe with mark of khorne or slaanesh, all mutations from Fabius

270
8 noise marines with 7 blaster and 1 blastmaster, rhino (sorserer runs with thse guys)

168
8 khorne barzekers (fabius runs with these guys)

Heavy support

150
defiler

220
landraider (transports berzekers)

overall 1493*

125+160+130+270+275+300+270+270+168+150+220=2338 (But you have point costs wrong IoS, costs 20 not 5))

Or is this not a list? Are you asking us to make you a themed list out of these things? I don't really see anything to indicate that though. Please elaborate on this. Because I think you need to check your math because saying something is 1493 isn't the same thing as equaling that.

looks good but an odd piont count

illuknisaa wrote:Troops

270 no marks*/
275 with slaanesh/
300 with khorne
15 chaos marines maybe with mark of khorne or slaanesh, all mutations from Fabius

ok here you make your mistake. This is only one unit not three, see that slash(/). This is a bit confusing sry.

Typeline wrote:125+160+130+270+275+300+270+270+168+150+220=2338

You also counted noise marines twice: ...300+270(noise marines)+270(wtf )+168...
so

Typeline wrote:Because I think you need to check your math

My list is calculated by using 15 marine squad without any mark

illuknisaa wrote:

illuknisaa wrote:Troops

270 no marks*/
275 with slaanesh/
300 with khorne
15 chaos marines maybe with mark of khorne or slaanesh, all mutations from Fabius

ok here you make your mistake. This is only one unit not three, see that slash(/). This is a bit confusing sry.

Oh all right gotcha!

I'll post some relevant stuff in a bit.

Edit: Ok considering your options and the points on everything here is the best type of list I think you can pull from this general theme and such.

HQ
Sorcerer, MoS, LoS 125
Fabius Bile 160 (Landraider)

Troops

8x Zerkers 168 (Landraider)
6x Noise Marines, 5x Sonic Weapons, Blastmaster 185
10x Enhanced Marines, IoS in Rhino 235
10x Enhanced Marines, IoK in Rhino 245

Heavy support
Landraider, Possession 240
1x Oblit 75
1x Oblit 75

It adds Oblits for anti-tank instead of having the Defiler. But the Blastmaster should help with the anti-tank aswell. It's 1508 and pretty solid, heavy armor might be a problem but you'll win most fights with your super fast enhanced marines and your super melee enhanced marines. If you have some champs with power fists you need to fit them in in those enhanced marine squads.

Typeline wrote: Heavy support
Landraider, Possession 240
1x Oblit 75
1x Oblit 75

I dont know about posession on LR maybe just extra armour. Main reason I took defiler was that I got this nice conversion idea for it and 72" ordanence barrage is pretty scaring (- 1 Ld and all).

illuknisaa wrote:5 posessed (i might swap these for chosen or raptors)

Raptors armed with meltabombs are pretty devastating to any armour.

Chosen with meltas are even better.

I would swap the sorcerer for a prince if you insist on bile. There is no reason to skip the best HQ chaos as available.

I would definitely swap the defiler for 2 oblits. They might not pull of a cool 72" barrage, but they will kill anything that hits the board.

Possession on the lr is smart - it will be able to move and drop your troops much more reliably.

Inigo Montoya wrote:Chosen with meltas are even better.

I would swap the sorcerer for a prince if you insist on bile. There is no reason to skip the best HQ chaos as available.

I would definitely swap the defiler for 2 oblits. They might not pull of a cool 72" barrage, but they will kill anything that hits the board.

Possession on the lr is smart - it will be able to move and drop your troops much more reliably.

Maybe chosen are better but it is harder them to get near tanks.

Sorry I should have been more clear on prince. I DONT WANT DP's ON MY ARMIES! (I'm not changing my mind)

Maybe olblis kill a lot but they will also die very quicly.

Poseesian makes LR more reliable transporting troops but hey it already has 14 AV (I can drive backwards if I want) all around. And extra armour keeps it moving. It cant shoot in cruising speed.

If you don't want to use the Landraider to deliver the Zerkers and their special character don't run one. Take some anti-tank firepower instead.

Defilers just aren't good, you're going to have people flooding this thread with "THEIR FUN! THAT MAKES THEM GOOD!" but they want to do 2 different things that highly contradict one another. CC and long range fire. If you want anti-tank get some oblits and some meltas, if you want, well... if you want a Defiler to see it get blown up first turn run one.

How people are going to get in range when defiler is at the edge of the table behind a building so no one can see it if somebady can do that it would be really worth the 150 points. And I'm not playing for a win I'm playing for fun, a win is just a bonus.

add more khorne they are awesome possibally karn the betrayer, or a demon prince
my teams: 2000 points
2100 points
gonna start a large khorne army

Right, I am an advocate of Possessed, but you wouldn't be able to use them effectively in this list.

Use Chosen with max melta and outflank with a Rhino armed with a Havoc Launcher. Move to target, kill it with fire and then leave the Rhino behind to cause a distraction (however slight) for your Chosen to move off to another target. This will take some fitting, but you need more independant threats.

Possession is a must on a Landraider. It doesn't suffer in accuracy as everything is TL and won't stop moving whilst it transports. Once it's payload is delivered, it won't stop shooting unless it is dead. Possession is the only thing we have to rub in the Loyalist's faces (and it isn't much).

An issue to clear up: the Defilers Battlecannon is not a barrage weapon. It is just an ordanance. It is great fun, but the list seriously lacks anti-tank. Firing the Battlecannon at tanks as you advance sounds cool, and in a list built for it, works. However, you need more generalized ranged in your list ATM.

EDIT: Forgot a couple things. First, who are you going to leave your objective? Second, where is the Lash Sorc going to hide?

Some big problems with this list. Like HUGE.

First of all, fluff - Khorne being seduced by Slaanesh works in theory, but Slaanesh doesn't even LIKE Khorne's followers. Even if it can trick them into doing work for him, the followers don't ENJOY killing, so Slaanesh gets no benefit from their actions. Slaanesh grows more powerful from his followers relishing and enjoying sensations, including killing, and wanting more. Khorne followers just feel a compulsion to kill everything, without joy or thought. They are anathema.

That aside, let's move onto the list.

1) Blastmaster for anti-tank? You're joking right? Shooting that at a tank means you lose A) the mobile firepower aspect of noisemarines with sonic blasters because you stood still B) the sonic blasters, because they can't hurt tanks and you paid 25 points a pop for them and C) your LASH because if he's joined with the noisemarines he has to lash what they shoot at, and you can't lash vehicles.

2) Sorceror with a squad? Lash of submission doesn't work on a pinned target, as per INAT errata. Thus, if you use lash together with any sort of squad that shoots and does wounds, the target could opt to go to ground to prevent being moved. While that auto-pins them for a round, it wastes your potential and key moves like moving someone from an objective, clustering for more damage, or pulling into assault range can't be made. Sorcerors need to join squads to avoid being shot, but if you're using lash I'd join him to an assault-oriented squad so you could pull people towards you and NOT shoot, to avoid having your lash nullified. Better yet, take a Daemon Prince and use your lash independent of any unit's shooting.

3) Bile. Actually, I don't mind Bile. The problem is his weapon's instant death ability doesn't work often because he doesn't ignore armour saves, if I remember correctly. So he only causes instant death if the enemy fails their save. In addition, instant death isn't that useful against enemy infantry, as they have just one wound. It's worth it to note that a Slaanesh lord with a daemon weapon would have more attacks that were power weapons that also caused instant death, and with a plasma pistol would also hit and wound almost anything on a 2+, as well as be able to pop small tanks. No army fluff or enhanced troops though, and I know that's what you want.

4) Landraider for anti-tank, after turn 3 you said? Too late. What are you going to do if the enemy's transport-heavy? Unload your berserkers into a wall of armor, then try to pop something before they gun down their unprotected flesh? I'd say run something alongside them that can pop a transport target to expose the juicy innards for you to charge. Chosen or havics in a rhino work.

So here's what I'd change: [comments after entries]


HQ
125
sorcerer with lash and mark

Replace with prince with wings and lash.



160
Fabius Bile

Fine

Elites

130
5 posessed (i might swap these for chosen or raptors)
Yes, chosen. In a rhino for protection and with plasma or meltas

Troops

270 no marks*/
275 with slaanesh/
300 with khorne
15 chaos marines maybe with mark of khorne or slaanesh, all mutations from Fabius


Khorne or no mark. Slaanesh is a bit overpriced for what you get. Also, give them two meltaguns. This means they can move up, pop a transport, and charge whoever comes out of it. Plasma means you can't charge and flamers can't hurt most tanks, so meltas are your best bet.

270
8 noise marines with 7 blaster and 1 blastmaster, rhino (sorserer runs with thse guys)

Scrap the blastmaster, and the sonic blasters. Give them a champion with a doomsiren and a power weapon. And honestly for the previous squad I'd trade 5 of those guys to give the remaining 10 a rhino.

Also, buy the rhino a combi-melta. Again for the combo of popping an enemy transport with the tank's meltagun then hosing the exposed unit with a doomsiren.

168
8 khorne barzekers (fabius runs with these guys)

Fine. Might want to give them a champion with a powerfist - one dreadnought in close combat with this squad and they do nothing the whole game.

Heavy support

150
defiler

I swear by defilers. Keep it advancing. I'd give it two extra close combat weapons and fire as you advance, then charge into cc as soon as possible. It's a LOT safer there, and it's a serious threat to your enemy.


220
landraider (transports berzekers)

I'd possess it, but that's just me. Makes sure it can always shoot and always move unless seriously damaged.

overall 1493*



Your army as it stands can't make use of its strongest assets. Your best cc unit [15 marines with mark of khorne, enhanced] takes forever to get to cc and your lash can be stopped by the very unit it's joined to. If you're going to run the 15 guys on foot, run them with that daemon prince. The prince can fly forward, pull someone closer, charge them, and hold them there until your squad of guys can jump in and finish them off. A doomsiren is VERY effective against marines AND lighter swarms [gaunts, orks], so if they're moving someone up to take out your prince/marines you can drive up and hose them with the noisemarines. Meanwhile elsewhere your berserkers can advance alongside the defiler and cause more problems.

Spellbound wrote:Some big problems with this list. Like HUGE.

First of all, fluff - Khorne being seduced by Slaanesh works in theory, but Slaanesh doesn't even LIKE Khorne's followers. Even if it can trick them into doing work for him, the followers don't ENJOY killing, so Slaanesh gets no benefit from their actions. Slaanesh grows more powerful from his followers relishing and enjoying sensations, including killing, and wanting more. Khorne followers just feel a compulsion to kill everything, without joy or thought. They are anathema.

That aside, let's move onto the list.

1) Blastmaster for anti-tank? You're joking right? Shooting that at a tank means you lose A) the mobile firepower aspect of noisemarines with sonic blasters because you stood still B) the sonic blasters, because they can't hurt tanks and you paid 25 points a pop for them and C) your LASH because if he's joined with the noisemarines he has to lash what they shoot at, and you can't lash vehicles.

2) Sorceror with a squad? Lash of submission doesn't work on a pinned target, as per INAT errata. Thus, if you use lash together with any sort of squad that shoots and does wounds, the target could opt to go to ground to prevent being moved. While that auto-pins them for a round, it wastes your potential and key moves like moving someone from an objective, clustering for more damage, or pulling into assault range can't be made. Sorcerors need to join squads to avoid being shot, but if you're using lash I'd join him to an assault-oriented squad so you could pull people towards you and NOT shoot, to avoid having your lash nullified. Better yet, take a Daemon Prince and use your lash independent of any unit's shooting.

3) Bile. Actually, I don't mind Bile. The problem is his weapon's instant death ability doesn't work often because he doesn't ignore armour saves, if I remember correctly. So he only causes instant death if the enemy fails their save. In addition, instant death isn't that useful against enemy infantry, as they have just one wound. It's worth it to note that a Slaanesh lord with a daemon weapon would have more attacks that were power weapons that also caused instant death, and with a plasma pistol would also hit and wound almost anything on a 2+, as well as be able to pop small tanks. No army fluff or enhanced troops though, and I know that's what you want.

4) Landraider for anti-tank, after turn 3 you said? Too late. What are you going to do if the enemy's transport-heavy? Unload your berserkers into a wall of armor, then try to pop something before they gun down their unprotected flesh? I'd say run something alongside them that can pop a transport target to expose the juicy innards for you to charge. Chosen or havics in a rhino work.

So here's what I'd change: [comments after entries]


HQ
125
sorcerer with lash and mark

Replace with prince with wings and lash.



160
Fabius Bile

Fine

Elites

130
5 posessed (i might swap these for chosen or raptors)
Yes, chosen. In a rhino for protection and with plasma or meltas

Troops

270 no marks*/
275 with slaanesh/
300 with khorne
15 chaos marines maybe with mark of khorne or slaanesh, all mutations from Fabius


Khorne or no mark. Slaanesh is a bit overpriced for what you get. Also, give them two meltaguns. This means they can move up, pop a transport, and charge whoever comes out of it. Plasma means you can't charge and flamers can't hurt most tanks, so meltas are your best bet.

270
8 noise marines with 7 blaster and 1 blastmaster, rhino (sorserer runs with thse guys)

Scrap the blastmaster, and the sonic blasters. Give them a champion with a doomsiren and a power weapon. And honestly for the previous squad I'd trade 5 of those guys to give the remaining 10 a rhino.

Also, buy the rhino a combi-melta. Again for the combo of popping an enemy transport with the tank's meltagun then hosing the exposed unit with a doomsiren.

168
8 khorne barzekers (fabius runs with these guys)

Fine. Might want to give them a champion with a powerfist - one dreadnought in close combat with this squad and they do nothing the whole game.

Heavy support

150
defiler

I swear by defilers. Keep it advancing. I'd give it two extra close combat weapons and fire as you advance, then charge into cc as soon as possible. It's a LOT safer there, and it's a serious threat to your enemy.


220
landraider (transports berzekers)

I'd possess it, but that's just me. Makes sure it can always shoot and always move unless seriously damaged.

overall 1493*



Your army as it stands can't make use of its strongest assets. Your best cc unit [15 marines with mark of khorne, enhanced] takes forever to get to cc and your lash can be stopped by the very unit it's joined to. If you're going to run the 15 guys on foot, run them with that daemon prince. The prince can fly forward, pull someone closer, charge them, and hold them there until your squad of guys can jump in and finish them off. A doomsiren is VERY effective against marines AND lighter swarms [gaunts, orks], so if they're moving someone up to take out your prince/marines you can drive up and hose them with the noisemarines. Meanwhile elsewhere your berserkers can advance alongside the defiler and cause more problems.

Ok you got me convinced on the DP, but don't think it will be a problem if the zerkers hit to a wall of iron because of the nades (all chaos troops have nades 6+d6 penetration)
and I have never seen over 13 armourvalue (exept one time a monolith which died in turn 1 from a lucky shot from a blastmaster

Doesn't the defiler have ws of 3? Or this is this just a printing error in my dex.

yeh im not a fan of defilers exceptin apocalypse games as i plsy vs a necron army with pylons every time

plasma pistols rock for berzerkers i killed a skull hammer with 3 shots once (it was in rear)

i like the list but id agree with droping the defiler for more anti tank stuff