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KingCracker wrote:I think some of the new kits prices are just fine. Look at the nob box for instance. 20ish bucks, the minis look AWESOME and it has over 100 bitz in it. Im STILL using parts from that kit on builds of mine. Same with the new boyz box.
BUT some things are insane IMO. $30 for 3 bikers? No thanks, Ill stick to my deffcopta conversions for bikes lol

This is the crux of the matter for me with the Greatswords.

Flagellants, Chaos Knights, Cold One Knights, Pistoliers, Black Orcs, Miners, Nobz, IG Command Squad all now in plastic, all lovely models, and all much cheaper than their metal versions.

So whats with the Greatswords? I don't get it. Why are they so much more expensive than comparable choices? They are a pretty tasty unit (Stubborn, GW, Plate Armour AND the option of Detachments makes them damn good in my view) so shouldn't really have a problem selling. The sculpts are good as well, and I do prefer them to the pirrouetting metal ones. But not at that price.

Had the other stuff been similarly priced on release, I probably wouldn't bat an eyelid. But they aren't, and Greatswords are. There isn't even the economy of scale you get with the Steam Tank. Steam Tank is fairly pricey at £35 in plastic, BUT, it is £15 cheaper than the old metal one (possibly more if it went up. Not being on the shelves, I'd actually kind of forgotten it existed!) and the numbers each player will have is limited (I would say less than one per Empire player in the world. Not everyone wants one in their army!). Greatswords however, come in boxes of 10. I'd never field a unit of less than 20, so thats two boxes per regiment I want in my army. Now this might be a cheap comment, but had they been cheaper, I might have shoe horned in two units of twenty into an all infantry force. But not at that price. That would cost £100, and frankly, I am not prepared to sped that much on plastic regiments.

And it makes even less sense in the context of the Empire Army list. As a special choice, they meet a lot of competition from Great Cannons, Mortars and Pistoliers (but not Outriders. I just don't rate them, as they don't suit my tactics!). Now I rarely take to the field without at least 5 Pistoliers, a Cannon and a Mortar. So at 2,000 points (my preferred limit) that leaves one Special Choice available. As I said, Greatswords do have their advantages, particularly for anchoring my line infantry, but at that price, I'd be tempted to say bollocks, and instead double up on the really rather superb, and cheaper points wise, Pistoliers.

So I am utterly stumped as to the Greatsword price!

KingCracker wrote:$30 for 3 bikers? No thanks, Ill stick to my deffcopta conversions for bikes

$41.25 now, even worse! I'll bet deffkopta chopjob bikes will go from the occasional conversion to more commonplace on the tables than genuine jeedub bikes.

Shame about the Bikes like. Really nice models those.

How sad is it that Forge World is starting to look like the reasonably priced side of GW?

No guys, you see the higher prices are GW's way of punishing us rebellious colonials once and for all. We are ina recession, and are less likely to spend money. As long as GW can keep raising it's prices in small intervals without cheesing off the Homeland, the colonials will be less likely to buy and will eventually leave the hobby forever! The GW hobby will be pure again! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


But really, I looked up the Blood Knights box and well, thats just not very neighborly. ($95 US!!!)

I just noticed that Specialist stuff went up. What could possibly justify that? Are they having to make that much more of it?

You see, when Games Workshop sees that demand for their product is down, they don't understand that such a situation exists because people don't want their product enough. So instead of finding ways to make people want their product more, they simply raise prices to compensate for expected revenue loss. You may as well attempt to light a wet candle by making it bigger.

Railguns wrote:You see, when Games Workshop sees that demand for their product is down, they don't understand that such a situation exists because people don't want their product enough. So instead of finding ways to make people want their product more, they simply raise prices to compensate for expected revenue loss. You may as well attempt to light a wet candle by making it bigger.

Sadly the opposite of that is also true, so when they see a line performing well, they raise those prices in order to increase profits as well. Unfortunately, that often leads to the situation you describe, which just results in another price increase. It is a magnificant downward spiral.

Aren't we due some yearly figures in a month or so?

I usually avoid price discussions because they often "get ugly" and irrational, but I can't resist this one. I discovered the other day that not a single Steam Tank was sold at one of the highest grossing GW US stores on the release weekend. That is truly rare for any new release, especially at the store in question. It did not appear to sell well at the other GW store I visited soon after the release day either. It's a great model and great looking and clearly there can only be one reason for the lackluster sales, the $57.75 US price.

I recently had a chat with a friend who once worked for GW for more than 10 years. We are both huge GW fans and are not quick to criticize. We love to see the company doing well for itself and by its customers. Regardless, as my friend said last week, "now is not the time to push the limits" on pricing. With the economy the way it is at the moment, the fairly exorbitant price of the Steam Tank model and the new Greatswords too is clearly a problem for GW and its customers. The models are great, but GW has simply pressed the pricing and its customers to the limit once too often and at the worst time possible.

This isn't the first time they've done it on a specific item. When the Warhammer Fortress was first released many years ago GW wanted $110 US for it! My friend said he pushed for a price comparable to the starter set price at the time, around $75 US, given the nature of the item, expected demand for it based on the fact not everyone buys scenery, etc. but some people at the meeting had "too much testosterone going on in the room" and they insisted on the $110. The model was a flop at $110 and the price was lowered to $80 US within a year or two. High, but much more reasonable. Now the question is, if GW ends up sitting on a pile of Steam Tank or Greatsword models and new molds that go long unpaid for by sales, will they relent and lower the price of those models for their own benefit and that of their customers or will they be so stubborn, overly prideful and testosterone ladenly arrogant that they do something even worse for their business to try and compensate?

Overall, the recent price increase wasn't too dreadful. Many items went up only a slight amount or not at all. However, there are a few items that are simply priced beyond reason and reach of the amount of customers they need for those items to be profitable and the Steam Tank and Greatswords certainly seem to be on that list. They are great looking, well made models, but in this case the pricing on them is clearly just not reasonable to most customers no matter how nice the product.

IMO, GW has bitten off a lot more than they should have with the recent price increase.

<5% would have been OK, but >10% on most items was excessive, and the customer base knows it.

Quite frankly, I could care less what GW does with pricing, as I think I have enough for now.

Lalala thats why I play Warmachine and Hordes.

=D

AUS$70 for Sisters of Battle.

That's the same amount as the "Great"swords, except they're in metal, they're larger and more popular (seriously you'll see more WH / DH players than Empire players - or you would before all this hype about the new Empire minis.

AUS$96 for a Steam Tank.

It's about the size of a Rhino, is the same cost as a Valkyrie, and has less bits than the Stegadon. Honestly.

I wonder what Blood Knights will hit when they become plastic? $AUS280?

GW employee: They're cheaper than the metal ones, aren't they? **drools**

G'day, Im probably restating what a lot of others have already said, but Im from Adelaide, and we're a bit behind the times....

All businesses price to the maximum that the market will bear. Thats what makes them businesses, not charities.

By steadily increasing the prices, you can accurately determine your demand curve, and find at what point you stop making more money. You then sit at that price point (for a while - then try again!).

I suspect the demand curve for GW producst is 'quiet inelastic' - that is, not very responsive to price increases, due to lack of substitutes or competition. Much like when the movie theatres increase the cost of popcorn, everyone grumbles, and everyone still buys the stuff. Grumbling has remarkably little effect on shareholders.

The following of the Hobby provides GW with a fixed audience who will dedicate increasing amounts of disposable income, just to get that squad or unit or terrain peice.


All of this is not to say 'stop whining about prices' - all companies pay attention to their vocal customers, and they are probably compiling marketing data on the number of complaints. Just be aware, that at its core, GW is a company, and its responsibility is to its shareholders. Until the customers start to walk away, practices will not change.

Im combatting the price change by either picking things up cheap on ebay (and not exceeding my max bid on items), and otherwise doing without. I only play with my circle of friends, so we do a lot of 'counts as' - and not WYSIWYG.

BrassScorpion's comments about GW sitting on a pile of Steam Tanks is true - if they find they dont sell, they reduce the price until they do. If they do sell at this price, they pocket the difference.

Finally (and yes, Im almost done with the economics lesson), price is not only a factor of materials - its also a factor of average cost of production. For example, lets say that a unit of greatswords and a unit of spase marheens use the same amount of plastic ($10) per unit. To create the mould, you need artist time ($500) and a specific mould ($2000) - fixed costs of $2500. SM are very popular, and GW know they will sell 1000 units. Great Swords are less popular and will only sell 200.

Whilst the plastic costs each unit are $10, the SM apportion the fixed costs over 1000 units or $2.50 per unit, meaning the total cost is $12.50 break even. the Greatswords apportion the fixed costs of $2500 over 200, or $12.50 a model - add the materials cost, and its $22.50 a model.

Ok, so I pulled these figures out of nowhere, but I think I eventually made a long, and very boring point.

Being "inelastic" because of lack in alternatives does one thing for me wrt the prices.
I will pick one army I have now, Orks in my case, and that will be the only one to get any new stuff.
The rest will no longer be upgraded as time goes by.
So by raising prices, GW lose all the $$ I would have spent on my other numerous armies.

Just because the item may have no alternative does not mean that everyone will still buy it.
Raising prices as they do jsut encourages those who stick with the games to focus their purchases instead of getting a bit of everything.
If prices were lower, getting all the new Planetstrike scenery would be a no-brainer, because I would still have budget left for it.

As others have said, I buy less with the same cash.
And some items fall off the radar completely: any Land Raider, Steam Tank, Blood Knights, Goldswords, Landing Pad, Valkyrie, any necron metals, the list goes on.