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Luna: Not sure why you quoted me, it didnt seem to have anything to do with anything in the rest of that last post of yours. About the only thing I would take exception to is your assertion that older TFG's travel in crews. From what I have seen, they tend to get themselves singled out, however there are exceptions to be sure and YMMV.

MrGiggles: I guess sometimes the Power of Parenting can overcome quite a bit. Prevent even more.

Oops sorry! i was running back and forth between spraying my orks and replying messages . I think i forgot to reply what i orginally quoted ><

grizgrin wrote:No, Luna; you can see where he put this. It's not like this thread is spiralling downward, it started in the abyssmal pit of gak that is self-pity.

I have no intention of wallowing in self-pity.

They taste great and have less filling.

Sirius42 wrote:If kids werent allowed to blow all their cash on marines there would be no hobby, besides, we were all space marine collecting kids at some point.

No we weren't. I started playing 40k at age 28, with Chaos marines. Now I'm 40.

I don't play at the local GW due to the preponderance of tweens there. Tried it, didn't like it.

I agree with others that kids do need to learn somewhere. WHen I was younger I learned to take my lumps from playing Avalon Hill wargames and chess with my pop, not to mention playing sports where people kept score, everyone didn't win, and everyone didn't get a trophy...

The only reason i hate the kids is because the rarly buy the stuff with there own money,they make there parent buy it.
They dont pay and they beg there parents to buy everything there.
but im 16 do i count as a kid?

garret wrote:the only reason i hate the kids is because the rarly buy the stuff with there own money.

Yeah, those 12-year-olds should be back down the mine earning their way, instead of just scabbing off their parents...

or they could do chores around the house and earn the money. Thats what I did until I got a job.

Ive played a few games with kids that were really great.

Generally, though, lil boys dont like being beaten by a girl, and get extra pissy. Some even cheat, give lame sportsman points, and generally be bitter lil turds.

If Im playing a tourney- I generally let the TO know right away- I'm not gonna risk losing a tourney by a point or two because of a temper tantrum.

This is one of the good sides to playing at a store that has some of the more skilled/competitive gamers- they tend to weed out the tantrum types. The sore loser types wont generally keep going somewhere they always lose

But, just like with adults- there are good an bad ones. The good ones I'll try to help, the bad can go sulk in a corner.

garret wrote:or they could do chores around the house and earn the money. Thats what I did until I got a job.

You did chores and got money?

You lucky devil. My room and board were my pay...

Rico.

garret wrote:or they could do chores around the house and earn the money. Thats what I did until I got a job.

Around 12 is when my parents stopped paying for chores, and expecting it to be done.
It's also when I first got into paintball, and had to get a job reffing at the field that I played at to pay for everything.

Not everyone has the same situation as you or I.

garret wrote:or they could do chores around the house and earn the money. Thats what I did until I got a job.

How do you know they don't?

Whether the kid hands over the cash or the parent does, it's still ultimately coming out of the parent's pocket. You have no idea whether or not a given parent only buys when they feel their child has done something to deserve it, or whether or not the kid has racked up 'credit' at home.

And some parents simply don't believe in forcing their children to earn their cash. Some schools of parenting consider that to be one step above slave labor, and all sorts of wrong. If the kid wants something, and you can afford it, you buy it. Some call that 'spoiling your kids'... and some just call it 'providing for them'...


It's not really fair to judge based purely on what you see. You're only getting a small part of the story.

kids cheat because of ADD, like when an inexperienced driver gets into an accident, they didn't mean to, but it still happens. TFG cheats because he's an a**hole, like the roadrage a**hole who tailgates. So which is worse, the kid who cheats on accident because he doesn't fully read/ understand the rules and pay attention to the game, or the older gamers who cheat even though they should know better and have no excuse?

*And no, let's not talk about ADD*

There actually use to be an age limit on Games Workshop products. Well, more of a recommended age.

The kids now are absolutely out of control. My local Games Workshop has basically turned into a babysitting service. I've seen kids assembling stuff on the floor, gluing all over the place unsupervised, leaving paint stations messy (open paint, unwashed brushes lying around) and screaming at each other over who's space marines are better. AND, the lack of ANY attempt to paint their models is particularly shocking. Obviously I'm not expecting a Golden Demon standard, but seriously, primer armies are NOT cool (Or sticking ion cannons on top of railguns on top of lascannons with too much glue... *shudder*). I've always stuck to "painted models ONLY" before using an army, despite having folded a couple times with friends.

Also, THIS IS AN EXPENSIVE HOBBY. If the parents of these kids assume that these are just toys (which they are... really) that the kids will run through and just give up, then that's horrible news for the future of Games Workshop. It's shocking at the amount of money they're willing to spend, and the total lack of interest in what their kids are doing. Who actually wants to leave their 8-year-old alone at a store full of strangers? I think if the parents took an active interest in their kids interests then I think we'd get more out of the "future of the hobby".

I remember when I first started the hobby (almost 10 years ago), I was super shy and was pretty quiet around the store. I'm sure a lot of people didn't expect me to stick with the hobby, but the staff at GW (Scarborough Town Centre for any Canadians!) were absolutely amazing in 1) teaching me how to paint and play the game, 2) helping me get games with people and 3) gave awesome hobby advice. AND, everyone there was super friendly and helpful in teaching me the game (and they probably went easy on me too, since I went undefeated for awhile )

I think that as soon as those staff members moved on, I think there was a huge decline in helping out young kids. I think as soon as Games Workshop staff began trying to push out the product and got into this sell sell sell mentality that's when kids started showing up extra bratty, just because they've never been actually TAUGHT the game/hobby, and have basically just been told when they got into the hobby that, "OH YEAH THIS _________ (insert newest or most expensive set) IS AWESOME, ASK YOUR PARENTS TO GET THIS FOR YOU BECAUSE IT'LL REALLY HELP OUT YOUR ARMY". *sigh*

So! The point is:
1) I think younger gamers nowadays are a lot less fun to play with, but only because nobody has the patience or cares enough to teach them without getting angry or demolishing them to stroke their own ego.
2) Like any activity kids partake in, the parents should be supportive (more than financially) and try to take an active role in their kids hobbies/interests.
3) Games Workshop is partly to blame, as their efforts to just sell sell sell damages the hobby because instead of developing longtime hobbyists (who WILL support the hobby), they rope in kids who will buy a lot of stuff at one time then abandon the hobby as they get older.

/endrant.

Note: Apologies to anyone who actually read all of what I just typed out.

im actually one of the youngest there i think.
i mean i make mistakes(such as questioning the tactic of a experienced player then he got mad but then he apoligesed a week later.)
actually alot of people my place is pretty tolerant of younlings an kinda like teaching them.

If you don't know the rules, fluff, or me as a friend I won't play you. Knowing your opponent makes all the difference between a good experience and a bad one. I bet if HMBC and JWDD were friends they would fight less.

Punkisntdeadyet, I can 100% relate with that.
That's actually how the paintball field I worked at all through middle+high school got to be when the original owner got bought out, and man it was a mess running birthday parties for 6 year olds with CO2 powered weapons that cause tears in that age group.

But man, some of the parents were hilarious when they found out how much it hurt when they played too.

Apologies for the double post but I read some of the comments and feel like responding!

Yes, when I started there was absolutely NO WAY for me to pay for the hobby. Yes my parents shelved out a LOT of money for this hobby. But unlike other parents who just drop the money on the hobby and let their kids go crazy, mine were super supportive and made me stick with it. They helped me paint, glue and assemble my stuff. My dad even picked up the rules to learn how to play just to keep my company in case nobody wanted to play with me. Yes it was probably a pain in the butt for them, but like the GW staff who helped me with the hobby, it REALLY was fantastic to have that support. And the proof is now I'm into the hobby, and understand the value of what other people did for me.

And really, if a kids parents shelve out the money for the hobby, is it REALLY any different than dropping hundreds of dollars on sports equipment? What I take offence to is not the fact that the parents are shelving out hundreds of dollars onto their kids hobbies, but that they simply DON'T CARE. Imagine if someone bought their kid the best baseball equipment they could, dropped them off at their games, but never took the time to throw a baseball with them. (I'm using baseball because I assume a lot Americans are on here, but swap for hockey, cricket, golf or any other sport ) I have never seen a parent in Games Workshop with the "bratty" kids, actively taking part in their kids hobby. I've seen them walk them into the store, give them money for lunch then leave them there for a few hours before picking them up.

*sigh* I'm getting too preachy so I'll stop now.

Dangit, Punk. You keep posting things I can agree with.
My dad got into it when I did, having assembled+painted highly detailed model kits when he was my age when I started(13), and to this day builds really expensive train kits.

Now he has a far, far more active Chaos Marine army than my lil' Daemonhunters/Guard contingent ever has been.
In fact, I used to use his Red Corsair army as my own for most games, and we built it up so we could each split up for days where we both had time to game at the FLGS before it closed down. Hell, his Father's Day gift from me is that gorgeous Khornate Daemon Prince model from Forgeworld to go with his up and coming World Eaters contingent for his CSM.

I guess your right.
my mom kind of cares. she drives me to the campaign so i can watch. she also ask me about my models and how there doing.

I was 8 when I first played Space Hulk, open wargames were a bit complicated but a board game was straightforward and fun.

I wouldn't play with kids in a shop though. I'd play with *my* kids when I have some, but I wouldn't play with other people's kids if I didn't know them. I've seen temper tantrums and stuff being thrown around and well...in my hobby it's my time and I like to spend it with people who show a similar level of interest and maturity.

I recall, through a friend, hearing of an event where a kid who lost threw a tantrum because it hadn't gone his way and turned the table over throwing everything onto the floor.

chromedog wrote:

For most it is a fad they will outgrow. Some kids will stay in the hobby.

Wiser words of wisdom have seldom been spoken. I believe we should all learn to show a little sympathy. Even the GODS of warhammer were but nubes at one point in the timestream.
There is a friend at my club who REALLY hates the little kids. They take up tables, the don't have the codexes, the ask stupid questions...It goes on. But I think that kids are a good (for want of a better word) investment. Some will get over 40k and move on, but some may grow to become enjoyable opponents.

I myself use to collect Brettonians just becuase they LOOKED cool. I never played a match with them. And when I got guard, it was years before me and my friends in Dubai (who mostly outgrew it last I heard) played a serious game. Mostly we mucked about, mainly becuase no one was willing to teach us how to have an enjoyable concise game.

Sidstyler wrote:

You'd think this place was run by the British or something.

....Excuse me?

In all seriousness and back OT, its the same story with many things especially kids, I normally do it by a case by case basis, if someones new and wants to learn the game in an appropriate manner I have no problem teaching them, I've even ask my opponents consent and give them one of my units to control for a few games with me so they can learn the basic rules.

Of course if the kid is a little feth head then its a different story. Its too easy though to lump all kids into the same catagory, but again I have met adults who act worse than children (one guy I played at my first GT literally threw his teddy out the pram because I beat him I honestly thought he was going to hit me.)

Oh I say old chap, that was blimey well uncalled for! Wot, wot.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Oh I say old chap, that was blimey well uncalled for! Wot, wot.

Its such a shame not very many people in Britain talk like that anymore, hell I don't even have an accent and i'm from Birmingham.

Right! Tenshun!
Today we'll shall be marching lads!
Where sergeant you say?

Well, we shall be marching UP AND DOWN THE SQUAAARE!!!!!!

(I love monty python)

Some accents nowadays is like skissers (scissors) being scraped on a iron file nowadays though.

....Excuse me?

The whole CCTV, Big Brother state and criminals rights being respected over the victims, etc...I hear a lot from people who live there that the UK is a hell hole and I was just joking around about that, implying that it was so bad that it would be a law there not to make fun of yourself. Since...it'd be like harassment.

feth I dunno, it was a bad joke.

Oh I say old chap, that was blimey well uncalled for! Wot, wot.

I see a lot of crap around here that's uncalled for, doesn't stop anyone else.

hey, I was paying out the British TOO by saying that dipstick.

Dipstick? What the feth? You wanna go?! I'll roll you like a donut!

Sidstyler wrote:

....Excuse me?

The whole CCTV, Big Brother state and criminals rights being respected over the victims, etc...I hear a lot from people who live there that the UK is a hell hole and I was just joking around about that, implying that it was so bad that it would be a law there not to make fun of yourself. Since...it'd be like harassment.

feth I dunno, it was a bad joke.

Oh I say old chap, that was blimey well uncalled for! Wot, wot.

I see a lot of crap around here that's uncalled for, doesn't stop anyone else.

With the UK its alot about where you live, there are nice parts and there are bad parts, i'm pretty sure tis the same in America.

And to be fair making fun of ourselves is all we have left, failing that Gordon Brown he's usually an easy target.

Now if only we had our empire back.....*mumbles Imperialist wonderings*