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On the plus side, that might get more females into the hobby.

Did you mean 'on the plus side' like, more ladies in the hobby, or like more plus-sized ladies?

I guess if it works, it works.

I guess it can be both.

Plus size ladies need lovin' too my friends...

RZ

Not denying that my friend.

I think we're seeing the last days of this thread.

Red_Zeke wrote:Plus size ladies need lovin' too my friends...

RZ

But they gotta pay...

I wouldn't say Warhammer Fantasy is dying, so much as it's starting to require more effort needed in army lists. I remember when I could throw my Orcs into the meatgrinder, have fun and maybe have a chance of winning - at that time only Lizardmen players seemed to cheese out their armies with 2nd Generation Slaan.

Now? Between Daemons and their Tzeentch or Nurgle Armies (I'm looking at you, Plague Bearers only taking one-in-three wounds at whatever strength on average rolling), High Elves and their "Lol Greatswords 3's and 3's before you strike with 15 attacks", Dark Elves and non-killable characters...

Minsc wrote:Dark Elves and non-killable characters...

No such thing. If you can't kill him by hitting him in the head with a sledgehammer, hit all of his buddies in the head with a sledgehammer and run him off and run him down. There's always a solution to every character in the game. It's finding it that's sometimes the tough part.

Strength 1 killing blow would work....if it existed

I think the Buboes spell works fairly well there- no strength for the reverse ward save, no armor save permitted, no targeting restrictions. Just have to get off the spell.

RZ

Optimal unkillable DE lord has Regen.

So, we'll need a Flaming S1 Killing Blow Attack that Ignores ward saves. Nice.

It will be in the Chaos Dwarves army list

Minsc wrote:Now? Between Daemons and their Tzeentch or Nurgle Armies (I'm looking at you, Plague Bearers only taking one-in-three wounds at whatever strength on average rolling), High Elves and their "Lol Greatswords 3's and 3's before you strike with 15 attacks", Dark Elves and non-killable characters...

My experience so far is that there isn't an 'unbeatable' army - admittedly I've been playing Dark Elves of late, but even so I'm not using a cheesed out list.

Since they came out, I've lost two games to Daemons - both times while playing Skaven - and both lists were fully min-maxed for maximum impact. Both games were characterized by uncharacteristically bad dice rolls on my part, and great rolls on my opponents. Both games ended in absolute massacres.

Now - I'll be the first to say that Chaos Daemons is a bit beyond the pale, and not all armies can beat them, but that said, if someone's a jerk, just avoid playing them. The first loss I experienced to Daemons was a casual game against a buddy. I was playing Skaven, and he brought 2 units of 6 flesh hounds, 2 units of flamers, a blood thirster, some Plaguebearers... it was a bad time. The second game I lost was at 1000 points in a tournament. I brought a deliberatly scaled down list, and my opponent had brought the hardest list he could. In the end, he got his massacre (the first time he has beaten me)... and I got the tournament win because I brought a friendlier list and had a better attitude.

Since then, I've gone toe-to-toe with the bloodthirster lists, the many nurgle herald lists, and the Tzeentch lists. I've found that careful utilization of troops, baiting, tactical placement of assets wins out over poor players. Keep in mind, the people playing Daemons at the local store are the ones that latch on to the uber armies whenever they come out - the good players stick to the armies that they've played for years, know how to handle, and prove that they are still able to win with them.

Neither of those Daemons players still play Daemons...

barlio wrote:I'm just throwing that out there. I have read no rumors, have talked to no Fantasy players (outside of Dakka) for months, and I honestly don't believe that it could happen, BUT you never know. Maybe GW has wized up a bit and realized that the Fantasy Power Creep has been too sharp with the last few army book releases and they need to shuffle their cards up a bit.

I think what is really throwing me off is that there is no Advanced Orders for Fantasy. I mean they at least could be putting up a piece of $15 terrain. Outside of the Empire releases not too long ago there is too much quiet for my comfort. I just think that we are either going to be blitzed by 2 army books in a row (thus skipping a 40k codex release), or something bigger is in the works.

In regards to releases the only thing I can see on the horizon is the Beasts of Chaos book and Skaven book. I know it has been a while, but I could see a WE or Brettonian re-release as well (Brettonians are still viable, but i have a friend who is a very competant WE player and he won't touch them now). I don't buy the new Fantasy race thing (only 40k needs anybody new).

Now please don't take me as a pesimist (sp). I think Fantasy is as strong as it has been in years, it's just that I think they are working on something big. If I'm wrong though just discount my writings as a madman (you probably should just to be safe ).


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http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1240001&rootCatGameStyle=

What can we get from this? Anything at all? Not trying out my Tin-Foil hat, but maybe they are going to work on a Zombie-Pirate re-release?

Those were sculpted by their trainees and put on the webstore as a "just for fun"
kind of thing, I think.

Shamfrit wrote:What on earth does non sequitor mean?

its french for 'does not follow' (I think). Something said to be non sequiter is random, & doesnt connect to what came before,

cypher wrote:In general Warhammer is actually more popular. 40k only beats it out in America.

Warhammer has a large crowd of older people (been around longer), 40k has a larger crowd of younger people (it attracts 12 year olds and isnt as expensive as you don't need to get as many models).

The balance issue isnt nearly as bad as people say it is (deamons are tough but so are other armies and they can be beaten in a tournament scenario by many good armies). The last large tournament in the CA area had no deamons in the top 10 http://www.leadership2.org/?q=node/2. 100+ players, many of them good.

Yeah....Daemons in tournaments haven't been doing as well--but then you've got pals like mine who does crazy stuff in our group, like 12 bloodcrushers (with skulltaker in the unit, and 2 bloodthirsters following on the flanks)....a deathstar unit, so to speak. There's not a thing that can stop that. He won't play games less than 4000pts, because he can't build his army in that composition. and then there's 40K, where his bloodletters will kick my marines' asses every time (he also refuses to play with the rule that Daemons deepstrike, because it's "not fair", so if we want to have games (there's only 3 of us in our group), we have to concede....) I really really really hate the Daemons....

General_K wrote:
Yeah....Daemons in tournaments haven't been doing as well--but then you've got pals like mine who does crazy stuff in our group, like 12 bloodcrushers (with skulltaker in the unit, and 2 bloodthirsters following on the flanks)....a deathstar unit, so to speak. There's not a thing that can stop that. He won't play games less than 4000pts, because he can't build his army in that composition. and then there's 40K, where his bloodletters will kick my marines' asses every time (he also refuses to play with the rule that Daemons deepstrike, because it's "not fair", so if we want to have games (there's only 3 of us in our group), we have to concede....) I really really really hate the Daemons....

At 4000 points you should be able to stop that 'deathstar' build with a few kitted out heroes on the charge...just don't engage skulltaker. I wouldn't see why he'd have a problem playing at 2000 as he'd just have to scale it back. And in 40k, your buddy is just cheating so tell him to play by the rules or he can serve you some chips and drinks while he watches you play with your other friend

I think we are just seeing the start of whats in store for the game. Since High Elves were released most armies have had a buff up or have received cheaper units.

Its just a transition stage. As books get updated the gap in power between armies will begin to close and balance will come back to the game.

Really tho the hobby is about having fun. Not pounding the enemy to dust.

When the transition stage extends over a couple of years, it is small consolation.

The last days? Hmm. Most WFB fora are comparatively quiet compared to, say, 40k, which is annoying but whether this is a portent or has always been the case I cannot say.

I thought the defeat of Nagash was due to Sigmar, when he disappeared, I know the Skaven made the Fell Blade and some how Sigmar ended up with it and with its corrupting power he left and was manipulated into killing Nagash also the mini was a WHF miniature.

I haven't played WFB in over a year, not really interested in doing so.

Partly, it's that I'm saddled with a weak army book against the latest bump in power, partly it's that I'm collecting Isengard, but mostly it's that we prefer to play Apoc.

I get most of my fantasy gaming kicks from WOTR and Hordes these days, but I still take my Orcs out for a spin every six months.

Shamfrit wrote:What on earth does non sequitor mean?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=non+sequitur

Please note I play almost exclusively in tourneys due to difficulty in arranging friendly games and even those are to try out builds for tourneys or get practice in for a tourney...

I'm doing excellently with Night Goblins currently, rated one of the worst armies in the game.

The key I have found is that when I go up against the top tier armies (daemons, VC with wraith spam, and DEs) I play for a draw.
Seems silly but I don't throw the game away on needing to pull stuff off against much better troops.

Refuse to allow him to use his strengths and generally annoy him into a mistake.

I play O&G too, and I have not had problems with the 'top tier' armies. Granted my mates aren't exactly a bunch of Pattons but the unpredictability of O&G just makes up for the imbalance.

Meh there will always be imblances. Deal with em lol. I play Beasts of Chaos...one of the most underpowered and 'supposedly' impossible armies out there.
But yet last year I placed 2nd in one tourney of 20 people and 3rd in a 15man tourney...
Totally wierd
Last edition BoCs were the ones that everyone screamed and cried about saying that Raiders ability was 'broken' and immensely unfair...power creep is just part of the game.
All that being said, no I don't think Fantasy is dieing..its still plugging along with its truckloads of flavour of the month players and powergamers and actually some quite decent players
Another tourney this weekend with at least 2 each of Daemons, VC and Delves. We will see how my Beasties do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Meh there will always be imblances. Deal with em lol. I play Beasts of Chaos...one of the most underpowered and 'supposedly' impossible armies out there.
But yet last year I placed 2nd in one tourney of 20 people and 3rd in a 15man tourney...
Totally wierd
Last edition BoCs were the ones that everyone screamed and cried about saying that Raiders ability was 'broken' and immensely unfair...power creep is just part of the game.
All that being said, no I don't think Fantasy is dieing..its still plugging along with its truckloads of flavour of the month players and powergamers and actually some quite decent players
Another tourney this weekend with at least 2 each of Daemons, VC and Delves. We will see how my Beasties do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Meh there will always be imblances. Deal with em lol. I play Beasts of Chaos...one of the most underpowered and 'supposedly' impossible armies out there.
But yet last year I placed 2nd in one tourney of 20 people and 3rd in a 15man tourney...
Totally wierd
Last edition BoCs were the ones that everyone screamed and cried about saying that Raiders ability was 'broken' and immensely unfair...power creep is just part of the game.
All that being said, no I don't think Fantasy is dieing..its still plugging along with its truckloads of flavour of the month players and powergamers and actually some quite decent players
Another tourney this weekend with at least 2 each of Daemons, VC and Delves. We will see how my Beasties do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Meh there will always be imblances. Deal with em lol. I play Beasts of Chaos...one of the most underpowered and 'supposedly' impossible armies out there.
But yet last year I placed 2nd in one tourney of 20 people and 3rd in a 15man tourney...
Totally wierd
Last edition BoCs were the ones that everyone screamed and cried about saying that Raiders ability was 'broken' and immensely unfair...power creep is just part of the game.
All that being said, no I don't think Fantasy is dieing..its still plugging along with its truckloads of flavour of the month players and powergamers and actually some quite decent players
Another tourney this weekend with at least 2 each of Daemons, VC and Delves. We will see how my Beasties do.

Quadruple post ftw!

I totally disagree it is dieing I just think that GW has putso much work into Apoc, LOTR and boodting 40K armies that it has been put on a backburner for a while. I think 2010 will see a lot of new army books and models out.

I really love the daemons beating the crap outta elves and being matched by LM. That`s wat the old ones wanted (even though the daemons beat the LM). That aside, i`d really like my damons to be a bit less . It sucks the fun outta the fluff