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Or that pink insulation foam they use to make stuff from. Why go to a building supplies wholesaler and get it cheap when you can buy our "Slannesh pink battle foam!"

You laugh, but I guarantee you it's coming.

I mean, he's made flagstones not out of plasticard like everyone else would, but another Official Games Workshop Product, the Warhammer movement trays.

That to me stood out as the most bizarre thing in that article, and I wasn't surprised to find you mentioning it. They literally must have pulled out of their ass, have you ever heard of ANYONE doing that with movement trays? Jeez, would it kill them to recommend using plasticard with a flagstone pattern? Are they seriously expecting the entire WHF fanbase to go out and buy a gak ton of movement trays so they can make flagstones out of them? Are they that desperate for your money?

What really irritates me the most is that GW use plasticard when making models, and I doubt they use their own brand or else they'd be selling it in stores, so basically what they're telling me is plasticard is good enough for them to make models out of and turn a profit for themselves, but they can't give the company they buy from a tiny shred of business by pointing hobbyists in their direction in articles like this one. No, if you want to make flagstones for your Fantasy terrain, you must take a lighter (GW brand lighter coming soon) and GW-branded hobby knife and weather GW-branded movement trays. You must use the GW-branded trees and the GW-branded ruins kit. If you use Woodland Scenics stuff or plastic aquarium plants ($40 for the GW brand, less than $20 at the pet store, and you get more of them...I think the pricing for those jungle plants pisses me off more than any other item), a GW redshirt will come to your house and personally smash all of your terrain (and steal your wallet).

And I'm surprised they still show off that cool table from Warhammer World, the one in the Planetstrike book with the excavation going on, instead of the Realm of Battle board. They'll never push sales that way!

They most likely reference the movement trays because in most cases you are left with some left over strips of it after you're done cutting it to size.

I think they are doing themselves a disservice through stuff like this, as the creative aspect is what draws a lot of people in and keeps them interested. Nothing is less interesting to me than this kind of corporatized junk. Hopefully they will realize this before getting rid of the talent they have to do it.

I'm a cheap git. I've got two tutorials based entirely on how to make cheap plastic alternatives to metal necron models. I never purchase "name brand" superglue, PVA glue, clippers, basing materials, etc. because I can find exactly the same (if not superior) materials and tools more affordably. I model my own scenery and terrain as well, usually using card templates or household items. I enjoy this aspect of the hobby because I look at random "junk" and see the final result in my head, then strive to make it happen.

In the past I've used GW's website and WD's as inspiration for modelling, especially terrain items. They used to include player armies and conversions for inspiration, but short of GD's, I haven't seen much of this recently. Even if there wasn't a breakdown of "how to make this", I could use the item in question as inspiration to make my own version.

The terrain that GW has to offer (for purchase) has never been something I've wanted to spend my hard earned (lol), much coveted greenbacks on, with the exception of the Cities of Death sets. These were made for the modeller in mind, however.

If modelling is a part of the all-powerful Hobby, there should be support and encouragement for that aspect of the business, beyond just pushing something you are currently marketing. I understand the need to promote your own product, to build sales and make profits. That's the nature of a business. Unfortunately it seems that is all this company wants to do.

... and the shocker is what? GW is a business and their sole purpose is to make money, they aren't the start up band of gamers from 25years ago, it's a publically listed company that has to make money. They are on a mission to hijack the term war-gaming and have it relate only to games that they make.

Now do I have a problem, with it? No, they are a business, that is what this type of business is supposed to do. Do I help them to make their profits, no, I choose to do my own thing. My annoyance comes from gamers not having the nads themselves to actually stand up and sample the world of real war-gaming.

There are better rules out there, there are rules out there that are equal to GW's rules, there are models out there that are the same quality as GW's, there are models out there that way better then GW's. There is enough gaming material out there for everyone to find something similar to GW's product and get the same quality gaming.

GW gamers are lazy gamers, they so used to having it spoonfed to them that they've lost the ability to game outside the box.

Wings of War, a straight out of the box game that you don't even need dice for. Spend £30 - £40 and you're ready to go at the drop of a hat.
AT43, another straight out of the box system, will get even better with the new army boxes. £50 and ready to go, so what if you don't play it every week, it's another gaming system.
Urban War, £20 for a starter set, bang off you go. Have a number factions so you can let your mates play.

Infinity, Hell Dorado, AE-WWII, Rules of Engagement, Uncharted Seas. Systems that don't take much to put together and play.

If you are someone who can't find a single game out side of GW to play or like, then sorry you aren't a war-gamer you are a GW hobbyist.

I don't have a problem with it. And I'm not at all surprised by it. And it's because GW has their own stores, where they don't carry anything without the GW logo on it.

To answer the quetion. No.... I don't have a problem with this at all. My dad used to work for Pepsi, and there was no Coke products allowed any where near our house when I was growing up. It's the same thing with GW, you naturally support your employer. I actually applaud them for their loyalty, plus I want to see some of the creations they come up with using the prepackaged terrain. 10 years ago they didn't have all of this nice cities of death terrain and other terrain goodies, so they had to improvise.

GG

I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling in this establishment!

The internet has so thoroughly kicked White Dwarf's ass that at this point I doubt anybody is buying it, or reading GW online, for serious hobby info, except maybe for brand new players. They know they can't compete with the material generated by fans on free sites, so why bother? Just crank out stuff that purely uses their own product. It's not like anybody is seriously going to think, "wait, I need to cut up a movement tray for those flag stones? But all I have are these sheets of plasticard..."

H.B.M.C. I personally can't wait for the horse painting brush to come out!

I've actually been tempted to try the wash brush. I love their washes (although I wish you could buy a bigger tub of the badab black and Devlan mud) and a brush that held more would, amazingly enough, be useful to me. It doesn't have to be GW (neither do the washes), but I know they work.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Or that pink insulation foam they use to make stuff from. Why go to a building supplies wholesaler and get it cheap when you can buy our "Slannesh pink battle foam!"

A redshirt told me it was going to be Ultramarine Blue Battle Foam.

Alright.

And BTW, I'm not a fanboy, I'm not fond of their crap either. $35 USD for a damn wood? WTH?!?!?!

But, come on now. Yes, stupid crap like a Horse Brush or whatnot will generate sales based on stupidity, but it's just an article. Nowhere did it say "Oh look, do what GW does etc. etc." All it said to me was "Look what our guy did with his spare time". If it was a main-stream article, hell yes I'd be pissed, but to me it simply seems that now that GW has the kit available, they no longer need to convert everything. Yes, I miss those crazy conversions too, but it's not like you HAVE to buy GW's terrain, they just feature it because it's GW terrain. For those who lack the skill to create a Wood/Shrine, they have the option to shell out a cool $35 USD should the really need to. All GW is doing is generating (expensive) options for people who don't want to or have the technical skills to create awesome looking terrain.

Of course, "Let the Buyer Beware" and if you end up with no money, that's your problem.

Its all part of GW's plan to brainwash all the little kids in to beliveing that GW are the only company that make wargames and the gear you need to paint and make terrain.
And after a chat i had with a couple of kids a few weeks ago, there evil plot seems to be slowly working, as these 2 kids had never heard of any other games outside GW and thought i was telling stories when i mentioned other game systems and that you could use household items to make terrain, and to make it worse, the black shirt in the GW shop then told them that i was makeing it all up and that GW are the only gameing company in the world, to which i promtly told the black shirt what i thought of him and telling lies to the kids

You made that up, didn't you Fynn?

But anyways. It's GW's website. They offer a now pretty much comprehensive range of gaming goodies. So you would naturally expect them to promote these products on their own site.

However, of course it would be nice to see 'or you can use this' in the articles. But when I was a kid, I'd have taken your hand off for terrain like they have now. I'm singularly manually inadept at building terrain!

I wish i had made that up doc, the black shirt was a total idiot who wouldnt accept that other games excisted and that only the almighty GW made wargames.
Thankfully that black shirt is no longer at my local GW

fynn wrote:I wish i had made that up doc, the black shirt was a total idiot who wouldnt accept that other games excisted and that only the almighty GW made wargames.
Thankfully that black shirt is no longer at my local GW

He's probably passed this test of faith and accepted that the Mighty Workshop is the one true, and only, manufacturer and been inducted to the Nottingham temple.

Don't have a major problem with articles about mixing and matching of kits, but am getting tired of seeing that battleboard in WD every single month. You do still see a lot of scratchbuilt terrain in WD though.

Actually it makes me smile that this thread is moaning about purpose built GW terrain, when

a) there have plenty of threads recently complaining about the lack of race specific terrain available to buy and;

b) both WD and the GW site have recently showcased some of the scratchbuilt bastions built for Planetstrike. Have you seen the Daemon Bastion in the back of the Planetstrike book?

I wish they'd gone into more detail on the train they build for Apocalypse, it was blue and silver on their website, but there's only one picture of it before painting.

I give that blog a couple months before it dies. While the blog should serve a clear business purpose, it doesn't have to be 100% advertising. You need to strike a balance between valuable content and advertising if you want visitors to come back.

That sounds a lot like Black Gobbo in the early days before they neutered it and then killed it altogether. Or WD in the old days. They didn't see the value of their forums and designer chats they used to do, mainly because they never used them to their full potential (i.e. content and real customer interaction). So they killed those too. See the trend here?

GW as a company does a number of things well, but they are IMO pretty poor marketers.

To be honest it should "about bloody time". GW have always produced the goods when it comes to the figures, but have been slow on the uptake when it comes to making scenery. A company their size should of been producing this sort of stuff 3 or 4 years ago. Yes it's cheap enough to build you own scenery, but pre-made can and does look better. I know if I take the time I can make myself a nice Carentan board on the cheap, however given half the chance I'd buy the buildings made by Grand Manner, even though the stuff would cost me over £250. The same goes for their Merville Battery set. I've got the instructions to make my own, but I'd still be tempted to buy their version, just because it was the easier option.

GW is a hobby supermarket that is trying to own the wargaming hobby by blinding every new generation to other systems. This is very sad because it means that GW know that their product needs so much outlay, they can't afford to let anybody else have any share of that market. Again I have to say I don't have an axe to grind with GW as they have a place in the wargaming universe, but I will stand up and point out to others that there are other systems out there, and playing them isn't a sin. Oh and guess what? If you don't like them, then go back to GW, but at least you tried something different.

As to stopping the GW rampage, well it can be done, you just need the nads to actually stop buying from them, directly or indirectly. Go on you know you can do it, you're a big boy / girl now. Use that grey stuff that allows you to remember your 3 codexes off by heart to do some research in to other systems. Money isn't proud, it's happy to be spent anywhere

@ Wolfstan

Yeah, what I said. Recent threads show plently of demand for a wide range of pre-fab scenery pieces, so we can't really complain when GW bow to this demand

That said, I hope they continue showing scratchbuilt stuff and I equally wish for a return of stage by stage modelling articles (anyone remember the WD Warhammer Inn article from decades ago?)

Flashman wrote:@ Wolfstan

Yeah, what I said. Recent threads show plently of demand for a wide range of pre-fab scenery pieces, so we can't really complain when GW bow to this demand

That said, I hope they continue showing scratchbuilt stuff and I equally wish for a return of stage by stage modelling articles (anyone remember the WD Warhammer Inn article from decades ago?)

Remember the scratchbuild Baneblade with full templates? Blimey, and various Ork vehicles. What's the cannon with four big wheels called, the "Gobsmasha"?

I'm sure a lot of it is from a practical standpoint. Do they feel like driving to Lowe's to get paint or Hobbytown to get some plasticard using petty cash or just grab something off the shelf that's in house. It's "free" to the store and will bump up their product movement, even if they "lose" money by using several small bottles of paint instead of buying a pint from the hardware store. GW sees it as "They're ordering another case of paint, they're doing well." They probably wallow in bins of bits that are unavailable to us, it costs pennies to them because they manufacture the stuff. A $50 tank is a real world loss of a few cents of plastic straight out of the mold. $3 movement tray = 2 cents of plasticard with texture.

It's insane to a normal person, you would think they're writing off lots of dollars when they tear open several boxed sets to get one or two bits they need, but to corporate suits, they think differently, reality has nothing to do with it.

Pimping the product is number one, so they use (or claim to use) nothing but GW products. I doubt if they needed to paint a 4X8 game table snot green that the store would actually pour out 50 bottles, they would actually go to the paint store and get a quart or even a gallon and hide it away and claim they used GW paint. They would claim they used their wide vehicle brushes when they actually used a roller.

If they're willing to lie and say they used the Battlescape craters in their articles and advertisements when they used resin masters instead, they're willing to do anything.

I'm pretty sure they have a deal with Kneadatite to make them green stuff in ribbons, Woodland Scenics to sell them flocking in the little boxes so they can have GW's logo on the packaging and sell a quarter of the product for twice as much as the original, but use the original product out of practicality. Like Cracker Barrel sells their specially marked sugar packets to superfans, but they buy sugar by the bulk to use in the kitchen. I just had an image of a server tearing open packet after packet of sugar to sweeten gallons of tea, like they had the gall to try to get away with saying that THQ bought lots of Red Gore to paint their full sized Rhino. Riiiight.

I had a look over one of the more recent WD's yesterday, it's the issue where Planetstrike was released. Virtually every board in that issue is the RoB board.

So now every battle they play takes place on a light hilly area with skull pits. So much for 'narrative gaming'.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Flashman wrote:@ Wolfstan

Yeah, what I said. Recent threads show plently of demand for a wide range of pre-fab scenery pieces, so we can't really complain when GW bow to this demand

That said, I hope they continue showing scratchbuilt stuff and I equally wish for a return of stage by stage modelling articles (anyone remember the WD Warhammer Inn article from decades ago?)

Remember the scratchbuild Baneblade with full templates? Blimey, and various Ork vehicles. What's the cannon with four big wheels called, the "Gobsmasha"?

Ah yes, those were the days

BrookM wrote:The days of Nigel Stillman are over.

Amen. Nigel Stillman was the man. IIRC he decribed how to make trees out of old paint brushes, and I remember pouring over the Catachan Codex for hours on end (I'm only slightly exaggerating) as I devised plans to make terrain inspired by his impressive work.

I haven't been in the hobby for very long and I still find myself with a nostalgic sense.

Rico...

I think it's perfectly fine for GW to advertise their own products, albeit if misleading you into beleiving that all you can use in 40k is stuff from a GW shop. Although theu do still make it clear that you can use stuff from a DIY shop as I saw a recent article in a White Dwarf about making tank traps out of filler and ice cube moulds.

Also, the GW staff in my local shop support scratch building and do it themselves frequently and help people trying to make something from scratch.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Have a quick read of this. Ok, aside from a bunch of pretty pictures of very green scenery, what do you notice?

Here's a Hint:

Everything in that article is made from GW products.

Now, I understand that GW likes to advertise their own products and we accept that and we move on, fine, but what happened to their grand scenery articles where they taught you how to build interesting terrain pieces? When did an article on making scenery go from "How to make trees" to "How to combine the Ruin kit with the Tree kit". I mean, he's made flagstones not out of plasticard like everyone else would, but another Official Games Workshop Product, the Warhammer movement trays.

To be honest I would normally agree with you. With regard to using the movement trays only I actually think using the movement trays as flagstones is a good idea and one I was contemplating doing as I had some spay bits of them lying arround.

Lets face it, for most (not all) gamers there is a price to laziness ratio when it comes to scenery modelling. Using the textured movement tray is comfortably in my laziness to price ratio.

Im not going to re-hash the point others have already made about GW no longer being a group of dedicated hobbyists who wrote rules together over pints of ale, & actually being a business with financial goals, but even so I do feel a pang of regret for the old days.

I fondly remember articles about random gamers' armies, & scratchbuilt terrain, & the very chaotic nature of the whole thing lent a wonderful air of mystery to the hobby (to my 12 year old mind). The fact that not every piece of terrain or vehicle was something you could buy pre boxed just made the entire hobby that much more immersive for me. Its a shame that GW has commercialised itself to the extent it has, because it deprives newer gamers of that immersion.

I appreciate better quality sculpts & better organisation of the company, & I understand that at the end of the day, GW is a business like any other whos primary purpose is to make money, but it would be nice if they could find a better balance between the business side of things & the hobby side of things. I think theyd have better retention of customers in the long term for it.

WD hasn't been a real hobby magazine for a very long time.

My question would be, why is anyone suprised that all their photos feature their terrain or custom terrain made with heavy use of their bits? If the terrain range had been this extensive ten years ago they'd have been doing it back then.

On the other hand, does anyone have photos from other terrain manufacturing companies promotional material (which is what WD is) which feature terrain made by companies other than themselves?