Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Why didn't he just enter himself? Why'd he need a proxy?

Thats what Id like to know. The whole "didnt know he would" doesnt really fly, since its been done in the past.

The work is excellent no doubt, but this whole business just makes him look bad.

Very strange situation, what the hell was the artist thinking?

I cannot think of a single reason they would think this is a good idea... besides being dumb, which is an official excuse but it don't help much.

I'm sure that the competition would allow someone to enter something you did under your own name, with them just delivering it and accepting the award on your behalf... but this is weird.

Nope...must be present to win.

Presumably the 'must be present' rule is there to discourage people from entering minis in GD's all over the world. I could quite easily see a couple of painters dominating the painting awards if they were able to post their minis off round the globe

Wrexasaur wrote:Very strange situation, what the hell was the artist thinking?

I cannot think of a single reason they would think this is a good idea... besides being dumb, which is an official excuse but it don't help much.

Money. Always follow the money.

The guy painting likes money. The guy buying the miniatures has it. The guy buying the miniatures wants to have his name up as a GD winner, and doesn't mind paying for it.

The 'artist' is selling his stuff for a lot of cash. Reguardless of his lack of morals, he gets lots of advertising from the stunt. More commissions. More money.

Admittedly I've gone to tournaments with armies were bits and pieces have been painted by my dad showing me different techniques (30 years of experience compared to my 10 lol), but 98/99% of my armies are painted by me, so that 1 or 2% isn't going to make any difference . . . but if I was to enter a pure painting competition I would always use models fully painted by myself, as that is just honest and sensible. I don't care about winning, cos people give you tips on how to improve and stuff and that's what it's all about for me, just improving in yourself =]

mikhaila wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:Very strange situation, what the hell was the artist thinking?

I cannot think of a single reason they would think this is a good idea... besides being dumb, which is an official excuse but it don't help much.

Money. Always follow the money.

The guy painting likes money. The guy buying the miniatures has it. The guy buying the miniatures wants to have his name up as a GD winner, and doesn't mind paying for it.

The 'artist' is selling his stuff for a lot of cash. Reguardless of his lack of morals, he gets lots of advertising from the stunt. More commissions. More money.

Wouldn't he do just as well to enter them himself and get *his* name up in magazines? Then as well as advertising his services he could now sell the same models with the added label "golden demon winner", likely to make them even more valuable. Seems a way to undersell your work to sell GD winning material before you've actually won something.

I'm just using the above as a hypothetical example...

"armies were bits and pieces have been painted by my dad showing me different techniques, but 98/99% of my armies are painted by me, so that 1 or 2% isn't going to make any difference"

In the Golden Daemon competition you would be disqualified. Absolutely every aspect of every last little bit needs to be your own work. It's all inclusive, no exceptions; painting, conversions, sculpting... anything and everything. If someone even has a question to this, then you're answer is an immediate, "You're not eligible!" The entry rules for Golden Daemon clearly state this.

On Topic:
The whole situation is appalling, shameful, disgraceful... pick whatever word you'd like.

GW is right in having it so that artists need to be present, NOT merely "represented". If artists were allowed to be "represented" then we'd end up seeing the same winners over and over world wide.

The rules have been clarified over the years, because this isn't the first time it's happened. You cannot enter someone else's work. Period. End of story. The rules are very clear.

About six years ago a US painter bought a unique heavily-converted chaos demon on Ebay, painted up the demon and went on to win the slayer Sword. It created a lot of bad feelings in the painting community, since it was a dishonest representation of the work.

Why can't artists send their work to a GD if they can't make it to the event? Simple; not all GDs are equal. The competition at the Baltimore GD is arguably the fiercest, with a hell of a lot of talented painters wanting to compete in the original US GD. The other GDs aren't far behind, but there was debate about the fairness of competitors sending their work to different GDs (particularly the newest ones) where they could benefit from a "weaker" (ie. less-experienced) competitive field.

I understand you using my post as an example, and you make a good point, but this is why I don't enter my armies into painting competitions, only gaming tourneys where I know it will have no effect due to the way the painting scores is done.

But on topic . . . I was wondering about the above post, and could both people enter the model as a joint effort (modeller and painter) or is this not allowed? And about the OP, the seller is a fool for selling his work, and the buyer is the kind of person that makes me hate people with too much money, they feel they have the power to get whatever they want . . . GRR! Bring the might of the Emperor down on him! =p

A similar thing happened in the second Atlanta GD. Somone bought several different models from ebay, only got honorable mentions for 2 and won a silver for one of them. When the pics were posted the guy in Europe that painted them called foul and let everyone know those were his. Word got back and the guy that did it was pretty much black balled from anything locally GW and banned from GW all together. Dont know if the Ban at GW has any consistency but I do know the guy has not shown his head in the local area for some time. So not only is it up to GW to punish those, we need to make sure people understand that as a hobby group we wont stand for it either. Not sure at this point if this painter had anything to do with this as it is possible he did not know the rules of the competition however the guy entering them had to have known.

I don't understand why you need to be present to win. Shouldn't the GD award be about finding the best painted mini? Not the best painted mini of someone willing to travel to a competition.

I actually wouldn't be suprised if a lot of minatures are passed off as others work because the original painter doesn't want to/can't travel to someplace.

Seems like a stupid rule to me that someone can't enter your models for you at an event like this.

If you really wanted to limit entries, make it regional. Each region has one GD event they can attend/send a model to.

Timmah wrote:I don't understand why you need to be present to win. Shouldn't the GD award be about finding the best painted mini? Not the best painted mini of someone willing to travel to a competition.

I actually wouldn't be suprised if a lot of minatures are passed off as others work because the original painter doesn't want to/can't travel to someplace.

Seems like a stupid rule to me that someone can't enter your models for you at an event like this.

If you really wanted to limit entries, make it regional. Each region has one GD event they can attend/send a model to.

My feeling is that the rule is there to encourage people who are local to an event to enter.

If I knew that anyone worldwide could enter, I wouldn't. Because I know that there are better painters out there.

At least if people have to show up in person I may have a chance.

It is no different to the tournaments. You have to show up to win.
And because of that requirement, you do see some of the same names regularly at all the tournaments.
Why should a painter be able to have someone else represent him?

Limiting entries to the people that attend to the event seems a lot more acceptable than limiting the rest of the world just because its X Km away from your region... Besides what would happen to tha contries like myself that dont have GD's?

If you use common sense the requirement of the autor is essencial to have a balanced event... just imagine a polish guy has a budy in the US and he accepts to enter all polish runner ups entries... you would have impractical huge numbers of entries and GD's probably would take weeks to resolve.

So I dont see it as a stupid rule.

What the person who entered did was disrespectful to painters everywhere, good painters, bad painters and hell even kids with hot glue guns. A fundamental rule of any competition is YOU ARE THE ONE COMPETEING. The artist I would not hold any grudge against at all if they had cried foul as soon as they had found out. I feel they should both be banned.

@ Timmah : Can a swim competitor just record his laps at the local pool and send in the results or times to the Olympics and see if they won? It would be very uninteresting at the event for the organizers to stand in front of a crowd and say john from Antarctica won first in 3 different events but the FedEx guy has to accept the awards for him and ship it back to him along with the winning models. You have to show up to a competition to compete! (That’s why there is a couple GD's around the world)

Its simple really, its called cheating and is a disgrace to our hobby. See i know i cant paint so i pay others, some of the time, to paint my armies to table top standard. Id never think of entering them into a GD because its not my work. If I want to win something i want to do it on my own so the reward is all mine. I guess some people are just shallow and have to win no matter what to make themselves feel better about life. In the end the guy should be banned from entering any other GD. I dont think you can make him give the trophies back but 4-6th place must be raiseing kain about this, know i would. GW should listen to our valid complaints and not picture his minis in WD and do a article discrediting him. "CHEATERS" never prosper in the end!!

Oshova wrote:But on topic . . . I was wondering about the above post, and could both people enter the model as a joint effort (modeller and painter) or is this not allowed? And about the OP, the seller is a fool for selling his work, and the buyer is the kind of person that makes me hate people with too much money, they feel they have the power to get whatever they want . . . GRR! Bring the might of the Emperor down on him! =p

It's not allowed.

Yeesh that faux Golden Daemon winner makes us Americans look terribad.

Has there been any other Golden Daemon cheaters that were had?

In some european GD's its allowed though.

littleboyblues wrote:
@ Timmah : Can a swim competitor just record his laps at the local pool and send in the results or times to the Olympics and see if they won? It would be very uninteresting at the event for the organizers to stand in front of a crowd and say john from Antarctica won first in 3 different events but the FedEx guy has to accept the awards for him and ship it back to him along with the winning models. You have to show up to a competition to compete! (That’s why there is a couple GD's around the world)

In this case and the case of the guy playing in the tournament. Those people are going to be different the day of the competition. The competition is the event.
Sorry but its a completely different type of event.

With GD events the work is all done before hand. Its not like a model looks better depending on who entered it.

Ok - thinking about it logically -



Why didn't the original artist come to GD?



He probably the doesnt live in America.

He doesn't. I'm pretty sure their from somewhere in Europe. (which has GD's)

Aya, GD's in Europe are usually ruled by "foreign" painters. WD often remarks on how Spanish prepare for GD UK and visa versa.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:

augustus5 wrote:
(Personally, I'm not a huge fan of paying someone else to paint your army for you, either; this is an all-around hobby, paint your own minis.)

For tournments with painting scores, sure. Its only fair.

Otherwise, its just your elitest garbage opinion on the hobby. If you like painting, more power to you. Otherwise, just enjoy the parts you like.

What is the prize for winning the Golden Demon?

A year's supply of cheetoes?

The Slayer Sword.

That's it? No money? No models?

Who cares?