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i'm not a chaos player but i've read the codex many times really all i'd do is lower the points of your troops thousand sons ' noise marines i'm quite keen on a noise marine army'

now i also wanted everyone to think like GW chaos has eveything pre heresy the reason chaos don't have the means to make eg redemeers no plans no forgeworlds' sure they may steal one in a unusual victory over the space marines but it would be destoryed in battles very soon after as you notice chaos doesn't keep it's toys very well preserved so why should they get new ones this last part is a joke for those of you which are now going to rant at me

will be interesting to see what happens with chaos though i mean after space wolves nids dark eldar and crons it a choice between tau eldar and chaos i'd guess tau chaos then eldar also if daemons and chaos got put into one dex i would rage and demand daemon hunters and sisters be put on the same dex with a little flavor of imperial guard thrown in

sorry about grammer ill edit my mistakes on my pc at home (usiing phone for this)

What Do you want In Codex:CSM 5th edition?

Codex:CSM 3.5th edition.

Ripister@Chaos doesnt need marine LR variations it needs unique LR variations.

Lord-Loss wrote:Ripister@Chaos doesnt need marine LR variations it needs unique LR variations.

No,no it doesn't,if they did then whats the point in even spliting the line between marine or chaos marine ?.

The fact is Chaos are broken enough as it is,i hardly think GW will do this at all.

Also theres been a rumor going around around 2011 they'll be a chaos legion book so you can have all your fancy game breaking rules again,but as for your hopes for a new chaos book altogather it doesn't look like it's coming anytime soon.

Some unique to Chaos LR variations would be interesting,perhaps some mark specific variations/opptions such as cloud of flies for Nurgle vehichels.
What ever the content of the next CSM codex,I can only hope it is a far cry from the bland,boring unimaginitive mess that exist now.
Oh,did I mention Legion list...once again that's Legion list.

Farmer wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:Ripister@Chaos doesnt need marine LR variations it needs unique LR variations.

No,no it doesn't,if they did then whats the point in even spliting the line between marine or chaos marine ?.

The fact is Chaos are broken enough as it is,i hardly think GW will do this at all.

Also theres been a rumor going around around 2011 they'll be a chaos legion book so you can have all your fancy game breaking rules again,but as for your hopes for a new chaos book altogather it doesn't look like it's coming anytime soon.

Im not sure I understand what your saying.

I said we need some LR variations unique to CSM and not copying marines LR's.

How is CSM: Legion Broken, the current codex is a peice of gak, rule and fluff wise.

Are Khorne Berzerkers meant to be with Tzeench sorcerors? Are Plague maines meant to be with Lucius the Eternal?

No its unfluffy and crap, we NEED legion rules.

I disagree - Abby has united the legions many many times - not just the 13 black crusades, but continuously and constantly in smaller, minor skirmishes.

To think that no-one else in the eye of terror is capable of stringing together some co-operation is a bit shortsighted.

Everything is there to allow you to add your own restrictions, if you dont want to play Zerkers with 1ksons, thats fine, dont. I dont think this aspect of the codex needs to change.

Of course, thats my personal opinion only! Cheers

Realy?

Abby has united WE, NL, IW, BL so far. I dont think EC have been involved in the 13th black crusade and neither have TS.

darkkt wrote:I disagree - Abby has united the legions many many times - not just the 13 black crusades, but continuously and constantly in smaller, minor skirmishes.

To think that no-one else in the eye of terror is capable of stringing together some co-operation is a bit shortsighted.

Everything is there to allow you to add your own restrictions, if you dont want to play Zerkers with 1ksons, thats fine, dont. I dont think this aspect of the codex needs to change.

Of course, thats my personal opinion only! Cheers

What bothers me isn't the mish mash armies so much,if one choses to mix lash and Pms and what have you,and justify it with " there a mixed co-op warband" so be it,it's that persons army and his/her right to do what he/she want's.
What bugs me is the lack of Legion list for those of us who wish to play pure Death Guard or World Eaters or Word Bearers Or what have you,these opptions no longer exist for us,there are no more plauge terminators,there are terminators wit MON...not the same thing,there are no longer Blood thirsters,there are Greatet generic daemons,there is in fact huge holes in playing any legion which have to be filled with "counts as" or by taking a non-specific stand in and giving it a particular mark.
So no,I have no problem with players taking any list they chose,but as somone who want's to play a specific Legion,I'd like the opption of Legion list

Farmer wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:Ripister@Chaos doesnt need marine LR variations it needs unique LR variations.

No,no it doesn't,if they did then whats the point in even spliting the line between marine or chaos marine ?.

The fact is Chaos are broken enough as it is,i hardly think GW will do this at all.

Also theres been a rumor going around around 2011 they'll be a chaos legion book so you can have all your fancy game breaking rules again,but as for your hopes for a new chaos book altogather it doesn't look like it's coming anytime soon.

Your kidding right? The current Codex is FAR from being Broken, and as already stated they are gak both rules and fluff wise.

4th Edition:
10 chaos players enter a FLGS TO.... Every players list is Unique and different in every way shape and form from units on the table, to alignment, to paint job. On one side you have a Iron Warrior Army with Bassies pounding away at the enemy while on the other side of the room you have Kharn leading Khorn Zerkers wielding chain ax's in a Rhino rush, while in the middle you have a icon daemon bomb army Deep strikeing into enemy lines..

5th Edition:
10 Chaos players enter a FLGS TO..... Dual Lash, Plague Marines, and Oblits spam the battlefield.

*YAWN!*

I know most people might disagree, but maybe trying to make Chaos not so random. Some random elements are fine but it's nice being able to know exactly what abilities a unit will have or what will happen when you charge in CC.

Different Land Raider variants

Legion specific lists, that can be competitive

Well, we all remember the CSM codex 3.5 that shows how the current codex can be redone.

First of all, I think that there must be a way to integrate Chaos Daemons into a CSM army to some limited extent.

Farmer wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:Ripister@Chaos doesnt need marine LR variations it needs unique LR variations.

No,no it doesn't,if they did then whats the point in even spliting the line between marine or chaos marine ?.

The fact is Chaos are broken enough as it is,i hardly think GW will do this at all.

Also theres been a rumor going around around 2011 they'll be a chaos legion book so you can have all your fancy game breaking rules again,but as for your hopes for a new chaos book altogather it doesn't look like it's coming anytime soon.

Also Chaos can make some sick lists already, I think i played my friend with a 1000 point nidzilla. he must have had 10+ ap2 weapons I was lucky to win

and you gotta remember if chaos are made broken like 3rd edition. I know i won't play you in a friendly, at a tournament most would start playing chaos and making chaos too good means there is no point in collecting loyalist marines which is so far away from what GW what to do.

One way to get Chaos Daemons into a CSM army could be like this:

0-1 HQ
0-2 Elite
0-2 Troops as non-mandatory
0-1 FA
no HS

If the CSM army wants to induct Daemons, all CSM units must be unmarked or warship one Chaos God.
The inducted Daemons must then warship the same Chaos God, too.

For instance, an Emperor's Children army can only induct Daemons warshipping Slannesh, but no other.

Or just put Daemons back in the Codex, like they were before and like they had been ever since their inception.

Let's talk about Cult-Specific Vehicle upgrades for a second here. My groups been badgering me to get some more Chaos-y vehicle upgrades going for our Codex, so I'm open to suggestions?

Anyone got any good ideas?

Let's talk about Cult-Specific Vehicle upgrades for a second here. My groups been badgering me to get some more Chaos-y vehicle upgrades going for our Codex, so I'm open to suggestions?

Anyone got any good ideas?

First of all, one could rethink about the cult-specific vehicle upgrades from the CSM codex 3.5.

One funny note: coruscated flames for Tzeentch vehicles had S6 in the German translation in the codex.
In a tournament, the Genestealer brood charging a Predator with that upgrade died during assault.

lol, all these replies all seem to want to change choas to Marines. You want the power of marines with elder/DE types of bonuses...be happy with the current marks, and stop trying to make CSM all powerful. I've read alot of "equivalent" subjects, IE Land raider... Crap i think that the landraider should be SM only, and maybe add armour to the defilier. The CSM are the most diverse army, you get cool stuff like oblits and Defiliers and the best troop choices in the game. and you all complain about not having a reedemer/crusader equivalent? Choas are a good and competative army, maybe its not the army, maybe it is the general? Also, everyone has to take in consideration that GW is dulling down all the options and rules for the game SM chapter traits...I miss you), so good luck getting special nurgle army rules.

So in conclusion everyone needs to stop being selfish, codex choas is still one of the top codex. My ranking is ig,ork,sm,CSM, Eldar, then the rest.

Well, the Chaos Land Raider is an old machine when compared with the newer Redeemer and Crusader.
The machine spirit works in a different way.
I'd leave the CSM Land Raider as it is.

I want!

My legion back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Liquidice281 wrote:So in conclusion everyone needs to stop being selfish, codex choas is still one of the top codex. My ranking is ig,ork,sm,CSM, Eldar, then the rest.

1. This is a proposed rules forum where rules are proposed. Did you miss that?
2. Mostly everyone here has acknowledged that Chaos in their current form are powerful. You only have to read the thread to understand. Did you miss that?
3. Mostly everyone here also agrees that, despite its power, the current Chaos Codex is boring, and we want a return to the previous style where all our Legions were distinct, full of flavour, and had options to make them interesting. Did you miss that?

Liquidice281 wrote:lol, all these replies all seem to want to change choas to Marines. You want the power of marines with elder/DE types of bonuses...be happy with the current marks, and stop trying to make CSM all powerful. I've read alot of "equivalent" subjects, IE Land raider... Crap i think that the landraider should be SM only, and maybe add armour to the defilier. The CSM are the most diverse army, you get cool stuff like oblits and Defiliers and the best troop choices in the game. and you all complain about not having a reedemer/crusader equivalent? Choas are a good and competative army, maybe its not the army, maybe it is the general? Also, everyone has to take in consideration that GW is dulling down all the options and rules for the game SM chapter traits...I miss you), so good luck getting special nurgle army rules.

So in conclusion everyone needs to stop being selfish, codex choas is still one of the top codex. My ranking is ig,ork,sm,CSM, Eldar, then the rest.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:So in conclusion everyone needs to stop being selfish, codex choas is still one of the top codex. My ranking is ig,ork,sm,CSM, Eldar, then the rest.

1. This is a proposed rules forum where rules are proposed. Did you miss that?
2. Mostly everyone here has acknowledged that Chaos in their current form are powerful. You only have to read the thread to understand. Did you miss that?
3. Mostly everyone here also agrees that, despite its power, the current Chaos Codex is boring, and we want a return to the previous style where all our Legions were distinct, full of flavour, and had options to make them interesting. Did you miss that?

What he said......

PLUS.......
"My ranking is ig,ork,sm,CSM, Eldar, then the rest..."
Are you kidding me? Just cause you get a new codex DOESNT mean that your army is the most broken list to date. Ig are in no way shape or form THE best army in 40k and if you honestly think that then you need to get out of your basement and actually play in a TO.

Also Chaos 3.5 is considered by most the best codex chaos ever had. In my eyes they never should have done the overhaul that they did. Id say over 3/4 our codex was either chopped, Nerfed, or limited beyond practical use. If you think chaos is "the most diverse army" now find a copy of the old codex. You will crap your pants at the fluff and flavor that they cut out.

Some people (like yourself) whine that 3.5 was utterly broken and that if brought back everyone would play it. Gee, kinda like how everyone now is playing guard, and before that Spaz marines, and before that orks...... See a trend here?

Also back then not everyone played Chaos.... in fact (At least around here) less play it now then before cause people didnt want to rebuy their entire army cause its no longer legal or spend months converting it over to something playable. So howcome if it was SO broken and all powerful more people didnt play it? Hmmmmm?

Now sit down, Shut up and let the big boys discuss our thoughts about what WE would like to see in the 5th edition codex. Dont want to add anything CONSTRUCTIVE to that? Then do us all a favor and stay out of this thread.

I would love to see two lists in one codex. One being a legion specific codex with all the heresy era stuff, things like cyclone missile launchers for terminators, old school land speeders and the return of retinues. Cult armies tailored so that they aren't ridiculously overpowered. I don't want a return of the chainaxe for khorne berserkers as I thought it was stupid that space marines can ruin a loyalists day whether they were in terminator or power armour but when it came to punting guard in the face they did nothing to them. If they were going to do something like that then have a -2 to ALL saves that way it doesn't feel like a marine killing weapon any more.

The second list should be a renegade list like the marine codex but obviously they would have the marks of chaos to go with them and daemon weapons. Why the chaos codex thought that renegades shot all their apothecaries and techmarines, melted down all their landspeeders and attack bikes, handed in their assault cannons, storm bolters etc is beyond me.

Lastly i want chaos lords that are the equal if not better then a chapter master, with the option of being a psyker again, bring back lieutenants and have sorcerers as a captain and librarian equivalent. That way people can do renegade armies like the Soul Drinkers. I don't condone it, thought the books were rubbish but the colour scheme is good and people can have that option in their army. I just want an army that is a lot more flexible. I miss the old codex a lot...

Well, considering that Demons are now an "army" of their own, I don't think we'll see them return in the next book. But removing them wasn't the only bad thing that happened to the army.
What I really want is to play specific legion without compromising (too much). The main problem regarding this in CSM 4.0 is, that there is a difference between plague marines and marines with the mark of Nurgle, which I personally find to be pretty stupid. The same applies to any other cult choice. Why can't I have 'zerker Terminators or biking noice marines?

jp400 wrote:5th Edition:
10 Chaos players enter a FLGS TO..... Dual Lash, Plague Marines, and Oblits spam the battlefield.

except the one person who plays to have fun and brings fluffy/fun list and gets slaughtered

please note all references to fun are my own personal preference

Some form of cultists would be good, maybe not full blown traitor guard, but like the ALpha Legion used to get maybe?

The people who are saying the current dex is fine obviously never have played CSM 4.0 and have not felt our pain.

Maybe before you say CSM shouldnt have LRs you shoud read some fluff and stop speaking out of your arse.

Storm of Iron is great for CSM fluff, Hammer of Deamon for some info on how the Eye of Terror works.

The Horus Heresy books are great to get an understand of how space marines work in warfare.

Or they played the 3.5 Chaos Space Marine Codex and thought it sucked. You know, either/or.

I don't think anyone is saying that the codex is fine. It is incredibly bland, boring and tasteless. In fact, I hate the current Chaos codex.

What we are saying, is that you can build a few different competitive armylists from it.

That said, I would strongly prefer to have the awesome flavor, options and character of the v3.5 codex. I think it is easily the best Chaos book written thus far, and certainly also one of the best codexes written yet period. When they redo the currentChaos book, they better go back and a take a long hard look at 3.5. I would love to have legion specific armies that fit their fluff and are fun to play with and against, as well as good armies. The ability to take units of Daemons (though IMO in limited quantities) also really needs to come back. They need to do away with this generic daemon crap that is in the current codex and give us access to the god specific daemons and such.

Actually I think the current Codex is fine: it was what got me back into 40k. It was nice to see a Codex designed without the straightjacket of the official fluff.

Not to say that I wouldn't like to see some changes. Everything can be improved.

I'd like:

Daemon Princes with a similar range of options as the Daemon Princes in Codex: Chaos Daemons, with a similar range of options and upgrades for outfitting Summoned Daemons.

I'd also like to see some streaming options, such as going back to having the character of an army defined by the Mark of its Chaos Lord (Cult troops require a Lord of that mark), and have some streamed upgrades available to the Lord depending on the Mark. Some sort of Lieutenant would be nice too, something like the Space Marine Chaplain and Librarian level characters.

I'd like Chaos Dreadnoughts to have the options of having Power Scourges and Thunder Hammers again, as options like the Ironclad has the option of a Chainfist. Oh, and a Cyclone Missile Launcher instead of the usual Missile Launcher option.

I'd like the Chaos Sorcerer powers to be fiddled around a bit, so they they can enhance units in dangerous ways, like giving Warptime to an entire unit accompanying them at the cost of Gets Hot! or somesuch. A Daemon Summoning power is really desirable, and while the Bolt of Change is nice, Tzeentch could probably do with something more Tzeentch-y for his Sorcerers, like giving them the Changeling's power as a psychic power or something. I have a wishlist thread written up somewhere.

Finally I'd like to see them sort out the differences between Chaos Space Marines (the codex), Chaos Space Marines (including Chaos Space Marines, Havocs, Chosen, and Bikers), and Chaos Space Marine units.

If we dont get a Legion codex in the next three years, im probaly going to start a new army or quit.

Maybe there should be two seperate codexs for chaos.

Renegades: An improved version of the current codex
Legion: With all the legion rules in it with lesser demons from codexemons.