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Kid_Kyoto wrote:

JonnyDelta wrote:I have to agree, Legion was a fantastic read, though in the beginning I felt a bit overwhelmed with all of the new terminology that was being thrown about.

Because of that book, I've started in on my own Alpha Legion folks as an Elites choice in a Renegade Army (Vraks, vol 2) for use with my existing IG.

Battle for the Abyss was a bit weak IMO, and Mechanicum took too long to really get going - but the end was 'enlightening'.

My problem with Legion, and actually most of Abnet's books is he has no idea how to end them. He can draw out a story for 390 pages and keep me enthralled but then in the last 10 pages he wraps it up leaving me wondering 'huh'? I thought the twist at the end of Legion (SPOILER - Alpha Legion joins CHAOS!) came out of no where. Sure he give them a reason, but why in the world would they believe the information they got?

Abyss was OK, it just wasn't really a HH book. When the Word Bearers build the most humungus space ship EVAH! an all star team of Ultras, Wolves and World Eaters has to stop them. It was OK for what it was (space fights and boarding actions) but swap the Eaters for say Flesh Tearers and you could have a normal 40k book. I think this is what pissed off a lot of people.

I think that in Legion he completely missed the 'psychology'. What I mean is, we can buy sci-fi explanations of why X works here but Y doesn't, etc.....but when they get the emotion/psychology aspect of characters wrong it sticks in our throat. A xenophobe Primarch in undying loyalty to his creator...so easily turned by an hour video....presented by Xenos....just doesn't fit. *Shrug*, Horus Rising was by far the best of the series....whereas Descent of Angels was AWFUL.

So the general consensus is for any particular HH book, you either love it, or you hate it with the fury of a sun. No middle ground.

Nice to see such balance...

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
My problem with Legion, and actually most of Abnet's books is he has no idea how to end them. He can draw out a story for 390 pages and keep me enthralled but then in the last 10 pages he wraps it up leaving me wondering 'huh'? I thought the twist at the end of Legion (SPOILER - Alpha Legion joins CHAOS!) came out of no where. Sure he give them a reason, but why in the world would they believe the information they got?

Exactly!

My only problem with the book too!

It could have been so much better...

Unless he's really saving the 'twist' for the next book about the best Legion ever?

H.B.M.C. wrote:So the general consensus is for any particular HH book, you either love it, or you hate it with the fury of a sun. No middle ground.

Nice to see such balance...

I think the consensus is everyone should listen to me and ignore those who would lead them astray.

At least that's what I'm hearing.

The reason we both missed battle of the abyss from our lists (even though it featured SWs and me being a SW fan) is because the book was so bad.

beef wrote:The reason we both missed battle of the abyss from our lists (even though it featured SWs and me being a SW fan) is because the book was so bad.

It's really not that bad, Space Marines have a big problem and solve it by hitting things.

Unlike say Mechanicus where Magical Princess Mary Sue spreads joy and love while the Titan Legions debate obscure points of theology...

I read Horus Rising and was blown away by how good it was. Since then, I've been let down by every single HH book.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

beef wrote:The reason we both missed battle of the abyss from our lists (even though it featured SWs and me being a SW fan) is because the book was so bad.

It's really not that bad, Space Marines have a big problem and solve it by hitting things.

Unlike say Mechanicus where Magical Princess Mary Sue spreads joy and love while the Titan Legions debate obscure points of theology...

This is starting to sound like a personal problem...

Maybe with someone named Mary?

And maybe involving some lunch money?

Grignard wrote:I didn't know Gav Thorpe was writing a Heresy book, I'll be interested to see how that turns out.

Expect the book to change the character of the fluff and then have it taken as dogma by the majority and incorporated somehow into every following BL book involving said fluff.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

beef wrote:The reason we both missed battle of the abyss from our lists (even though it featured SWs and me being a SW fan) is because the book was so bad.

It's really not that bad, Space Marines have a big problem and solve it by hitting things.

Unlike say Mechanicus where Magical Princess Mary Sue spreads joy and love while the Titan Legions debate obscure points of theology...

It's "Mechanicum", and your "Magical Princess", as you so put it, was not quite so central to the story as one might think. The politicking between the forges was a point that needed to be made, as it was sowing the essential points that led to the initial success of the assault on Terra. It's a piece of a much larger puzzle, and provides a rather wide scope of where the AdMech were before, and more essentially during, the events that were unfolding in the lead-up to the Istvaan Massacre and the Siege of Terra. It explains a lot more than just what was going on in the fields of battle, and it shows where the great schism of ideologies between the Mechanicum, who are now ultra-focused dogmatics, the Dark Mechanicum, who are radically twisted shades of their former selves, and forge masters like Zeth, who actually tried to ADVANCE technology, rather than just copy it ad nauseum, with the realization that these things weren't some kind of mystical hokum that needed to be worshipped.

And if you were looking for glorious battle, well, you had that to... In fact, you had an entire forge going for a bit of a swim in an active volcano, and the march of an Imperator titan, among other things.

War isn't just a bunch of pew-pew kaboom... there's always the politics behind it, which, more often than not, make for a much better storyline.

Alpharius wrote:

This is starting to sound like a personal problem...

Maybe with someone named Mary?

And maybe involving some lunch money?

Mary Sue and I are old enemies. And in Red China I could've eaten lunch for a week for $8 I spent on Magical Princess Mary Sue and the Parliamentary Procedures of the Giant Robots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

"Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy and Mr. Scott beamed down with Lt. Mary Sue to Rigel XXXVII. They were attacked by green androids and thrown into prison. In a moment of weakness Lt. Mary Sue revealed to Mr. Spock that she too was half Vulcan. Recovering quickly, she sprung the lock with her hairpin and they all got away back to the ship.

But back on board, Dr. McCoy and Lt. Mary Sue found out that the men who had beamed down were seriously stricken by the jumping cold robbies , Mary Sue less so. While the four officers languished in Sick Bay, Lt. Mary Sue ran the ship, and ran it so well she received the Nobel Peace Prize, the Vulcan Order of Gallantry and the Tralfamadorian Order of Good Guyhood."
— Excerpt from "A Trekkie's Tale" by Paula Smith

You know, Mechanicum makes a more interesting read if you page through it directly after Abnett's "Titanicus". The change in the use and power of the tech, and of the culture of the Mechanicum, is really well coordinated between the two. This doesn't seem like dumb luck: Either their internal fluff library is really well coordinated, or the authors swapped ideas over several pints and then made good on their commonalities.

Savnock wrote:, or the authors swapped ideas over several pints and then made good on their commonalities.

They more or less did this. Bits of the books were sent back and forth between the two of them and they both "fed" off of each other's ideas.

Similar process for their HH novels too.

Really wierd, the only one in the series I dislike is Battle For The Abyss, and even then its only a minor dislike (Skraal was well cool)

Also, I really didn't like the cheapo sci-fi effects or the actual reading of the Lightning Tower/Dark King. Malcador sounded like a drunken toff, pshaaaw!

Oh, and Mechanicum is indeed the best in the series thus far some folks just don't 'get it' :p mwahaha

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Mary Sue and I are old enemies. And in Red China I could've eaten lunch for a week for $8 I spent on Magical Princess Mary Sue and the Parliamentary Procedures of the Giant Robots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

"Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy and Mr. Scott beamed down with Lt. Mary Sue to Rigel XXXVII. They were attacked by green androids and thrown into prison. In a moment of weakness Lt. Mary Sue revealed to Mr. Spock that she too was half Vulcan. Recovering quickly, she sprung the lock with her hairpin and they all got away back to the ship.

But back on board, Dr. McCoy and Lt. Mary Sue found out that the men who had beamed down were seriously stricken by the jumping cold robbies , Mary Sue less so. While the four officers languished in Sick Bay, Lt. Mary Sue ran the ship, and ran it so well she received the Nobel Peace Prize, the Vulcan Order of Gallantry and the Tralfamadorian Order of Good Guyhood."
— Excerpt from "A Trekkie's Tale" by Paula Smith

I think the most funny part of that is that both of your links explicitly state that no one can really determine what is or is not a Mary Sue, and that it is a personal choice of the reader. Essentially you're providing evidence to the rest of us that you're seeing things that probably aren't there because of preexisting bias.

Allright all. Really nice to read all of you discussing the books! Keep it up!

I just finished false god's in one (and a half) breath and damn it just pulls you into the story more and more. Already send my'lady to flgs for Galaxy in flames!

Greetings