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dogma wrote:I mean, yeah, I got that. And I wasn't trying to criticize you. I was just wondering why someone (you?) would want the money back at all?

Principle I suppose.

Seems you need to learn a valuable lesson.
Just because you've loaned someone money, it does not mean you now get to scrutinize their spending habits. You should have done that before, and since it's you're brother you should have known he was a wastrel.
I have a simple solution (that works for me) all "loans" I've given to family members are "gifts". I give them money and all expectations end there, if I get paid back, nice surprise; otherwise I don't care.
Of course my family isn't hitting me up for money all the time or even rarely.

MadEdric wrote:Seems you need to learn a valuable lesson.

Heh, I had it learnt already, but my conscience (damn annoying thing that it is) got the better of me,

MadEdric wrote:Seems you need to learn a valuable lesson.
Just because you've loaned someone money, it does not mean you now get to scrutinize their spending habits. You should have done that before, and since it's you're brother you should have known he was a wastrel.
I have a simple solution (that works for me) all "loans" I've given to family members are "gifts". I give them money and all expectations end there, if I get paid back, nice surprise; otherwise I don't care.
Of course my family isn't hitting me up for money all the time or even rarely.

I think his point was that he "loaned" his brother the money, but with no real expectation(or care) of getting it back.

What's probably galling him is that his brother took the money, obviously had enough to pay it back(even if not expected to), but instead of even offering to pay Gwar back(which might or might have been declined), he goes and spends it on some new phone he doesn't really need.

It's not about the money, it's about the attitude and way his brother handled the situation.

Platuan4th wrote:I think his point was that he "loaned" his brother the money, but with no real expectation(or care) of getting it back.

What's probably galling him is that his brother took the money, obviously had enough to pay it back(even if not expected to), but instead of even offering to pay Gwar back(which might or might have been declined), he goes and spends it on some new phone he doesn't really need.

It's not about the money, it's about the attitude and way his brother handled the situation.

That wraps it up very nicely actually.

Whenever i have lent family members money in the past, i have done it whilst making sure all other family members know what is happening. I find this guilt trip to be most effective.

@GWAR: Your brother is being an ass. But i was an ass when i was that age; don't let him forget about the money you lent him, in time it will gnaw at him

True, he's messed up, but we all have to learn our mistakes at some point.

don't swear .Ta.

dogma wrote:I've never understood why people 'loan' money to family, friends, or anyone else outside of a formal contract.

Really? Got some college education and you can't understand something as simple as this? I think you are exaggerating for effect.Perhaps what you meant was that you don't think it is a good idea, not that you don't understand. It could be that you have no trustworthy people in your life that has lead you down this path and the conclusion, and that would be sad, but I could see it. Do you just mean large sums or any sum at all? If you mean large sums of money I could see that but if you mean anything that just seems to be a sad testament to the people you surround yourself with if you can't trust any of them at all w/o a signed contract.

Modquisition. ok ok lets not make sure this doesn't get personal guys.

I suggest tying him up and placing him on Frazzled's lawn at night, and then skedaddling.

Hey, does anybody frequent Pensacola? There's this guy that still owes me a birthday present and it's been almost a year now.

Ketara wrote:I suggest tying him up and placing him on Frazzled's lawn at night, and then skedaddling.

Better yet, give him to Genghis Connie.

Ketara wrote:I suggest tying him up and placing him on Frazzled's lawn at night, and then skedaddling.

Leave a note detailing the bits you want to retrieve.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Platuan4th wrote:

Ketara wrote:I suggest tying him up and placing him on Frazzled's lawn at night, and then skedaddling.

Better yet, give him to Genghis Connie.

Thats not human!

I lent my bro $750 USD a while back. I do want it back, but he works at a fast food joint, so it is going to take him a while. I try not to trip. I am salary, he is minimum wage. I am glad I am in a position to help him, and the money I get back I am going to put into savings. That said, I was still pissed when he spent his money on frivolous things instead of saving... Damn Monkey! But, it could be worse...

Sorry for the lengthy post... I need to get this off of my chest.
I am currently arguing with my sister, but not over money. Before my mom passed away, she said that when she dies, she doesn't want her kids to fight over her belongings. It is very relevant to mention that she was absolutely plastered off cheap Vodka. She put her arm around my wife and said, "I see you as my daughter, and I want to make sure you are included in this. What would you like when I die? I know it is morbid, but I want to make sure my kids don't fight over stupid material items." My wife, feeling kinda weirded-out about this candid chat about the inevitable and my mom's inebriation, said she wanted her dining room table. My wife started to cry because they never really got along, and she was very touched by my mom's candor and honesty. That was the last time I ever saw my mom alive...

A month later, after my mom's funeral, we are not thinking about the table. We are mourning. My sister apparently asked for said table, and my dad told her no. He said he is not in the proper mental place to be thinking about that.

Fast forward to the present, almost two years later. My family (me, my wife, and our two girls) is moving into a place of our own, and my dad asks if we need anything for our new place. My wife remembered what my mom said, and requested the table. My dad said, "Of course." I got a call from my sister a few minutes later. She said she asked first, and would like me to tell my dad she could have it...

Shenanigans ensued... She says my wife has no say in the matter because she is not blood, she is not one of the siblings. I told here the ring on my finger disagrees and to have a good day. What followed was three days of whining. She called my dad and told him I was being unreasonable. He doesn't think I am, but all the same, he doesn't want us fighting so if we can't agree, no one gets it. I am all for that, my mom didn't want us to fight in the first fething place. My sister has barraged us with 10-15 text messages, three voice mails, and two yelling matches. This is why:

She says SHE asked FIRST, and I am only doing this to hurt her.

She says my wife has no say and that it should only be the four siblings that have a say, regardless of what mom said, because she was drunk.

She said that would be the same as her wanting some of my wife's late father's belongings. I said no because my sister didn't even know Meescha, let alone be the spouse of his child... That pissed us both off.

She said we should have a rotation, in contract, where she gets it first for a year, then me, then my brothers, then back to her...

I said feth off, I don't want to argue, mom didn't want us to argue, dad doesn't want us to argue, my wife is furious with you for bringing her dad into this, my brothers think this is childish, and have a nice life.
Sorry for the rant, like I said, I really needed to get this off of my chest.

Sounds like the sis needs a provolone beatdown too.

1. switch it. Its not the wife that wants it. You want it. So its fair again.
2. This is why you take out the siblings when they are young and weak, to avoid these sorts of problems in the future. Only the strong survive!

Frazzled wrote:2. This is why you take out the siblings when they are young and weak, to avoid these sorts of problems in the future. Only the strong survive!

Yup, just ask my younger sisters.


Oh wait...

There is money out there somewhere, and some of it originated from you.

Hopefully the universe sees fit to pay you back and pay THEM back.

Gwar! wrote:

Frazzled wrote:2. This is why you take out the siblings when they are young and weak, to avoid these sorts of problems in the future. Only the strong survive!

Yup, just ask my younger sisters.


Oh wait...

YESSSSssss, the force is strong with you.

tblock1984 wrote:I lent my bro $750 USD a while back. I do want it back, but he works at a fast food joint, so it is going to take him a while. I try not to trip. I am salary, he is minimum wage. I am glad I am in a position to help him, and the money I get back I am going to put into savings. That said, I was still pissed when he spent his money on frivolous things instead of saving... Damn Monkey! But, it could be worse...

Sorry for the lengthy post... I need to get this off of my chest.
I am currently arguing with my sister, but not over money. Before my mom passed away, she said that when she dies, she doesn't want her kids to fight over her belongings. It is very relevant to mention that she was absolutely plastered off cheap Vodka. She put her arm around my wife and said, "I see you as my daughter, and I want to make sure you are included in this. What would you like when I die? I know it is morbid, but I want to make sure my kids don't fight over stupid material items." My wife, feeling kinda weirded-out about this candid chat about the inevitable and my mom's inebriation, said she wanted her dining room table. My wife started to cry because they never really got along, and she was very touched by my mom's candor and honesty. That was the last time I ever saw my mom alive...

A month later, after my mom's funeral, we are not thinking about the table. We are mourning. My sister apparently asked for said table, and my dad told her no. He said he is not in the proper mental place to be thinking about that.

Fast forward to the present, almost two years later. My family (me, my wife, and our two girls) is moving into a place of our own, and my dad asks if we need anything for our new place. My wife remembered what my mom said, and requested the table. My dad said, "Of course." I got a call from my sister a few minutes later. She said she asked first, and would like me to tell my dad she could have it...

Shenanigans ensued... She says my wife has no say in the matter because she is not blood, she is not one of the siblings. I told here the ring on my finger disagrees and to have a good day. What followed was three days of whining. She called my dad and told him I was being unreasonable. He doesn't think I am, but all the same, he doesn't want us fighting so if we can't agree, no one gets it. I am all for that, my mom didn't want us to fight in the first fething place. My sister has barraged us with 10-15 text messages, three voice mails, and two yelling matches. This is why:

She says SHE asked FIRST, and I am only doing this to hurt her.

She says my wife has no say and that it should only be the four siblings that have a say, regardless of what mom said, because she was drunk.

She said that would be the same as her wanting some of my wife's late father's belongings. I said no because my sister didn't even know Meescha, let alone be the spouse of his child... That pissed us both off.

She said we should have a rotation, in contract, where she gets it first for a year, then me, then my brothers, then back to her...

I said feth off, I don't want to argue, mom didn't want us to argue, dad doesn't want us to argue, my wife is furious with you for bringing her dad into this, my brothers think this is childish, and have a nice life.
Sorry for the rant, like I said, I really needed to get this off of my chest.

Hmm. Well, I would say:

Simply being a person's child does not mean you have some sort of moral entitlement to their things when they die. Sure, things are usually given to the person's children, but if the person in question says anything otherwise then that's their wish, and they have every right to inherit anyone they feel like.

You're correct about your sister's analogy; it's invalid by both the fact that your wife's father hasn't declared your sister can inherit her table, and by the fact that your sister isn't married to a child of your wife's father.

Having a table moved between houses every year makes it pretty much worthless. You will still both need another dining table anyway in that scenario, and you'll have to drag a table around every year.

I can see the argument that saying something while drunk puts less value on it. However, if your sister doesn't have any valid counter argument for why she should get it, the drunk comment still stands (if your mom had said something else while sober that might take precedence).

If you really want to minimize fighting over it, you could always flip a coin (or have someone else flip a coin for you).

I love bullet points.

Frazzled wrote:Sounds like the sis needs a provolone beatdown too.

1. switch it. Its not the wife that wants it. You want it. So its fair again.

Tried this. Same result. It really doesn't matter what you say, she will take what she wants out of it and use it as ammunition.
She said I am just rearranging what I say to "win this argument", at the whims of my wife because I am her puppet. She says this makes her feel hurt, sad, and ashamed. This is followed by something from the Book of Mormon that discusses family ties, and that even though I am being in insufferable person, she still considers me her brother, and I am still welcome at her home any time I want...

What a fething tool.

2. This is why you take out the siblings when they are young and weak, to avoid these sorts of problems in the future. Only the strong survive!

I would have, but she is 8 years older than me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkeosaurus wrote:Hmm. Well, I would say:

Simply being a person's child does not mean you have some sort of moral entitlement to their things when they die. Sure, things are usually given to the person's children, but if the person in question says anything otherwise then that's their wish, and they have every right to inherit anyone they feel like.

You're correct about your sister's analogy; it's invalid by both the fact that your wife's father hasn't declared your sister can inherit her table, and it's invalid by the fact that your sister isn't married to a child of your wife's father.

Having a table moved between houses every year makes it pretty much worthless. You will both need another dining table anyway in that scenario, and you'll have to drag a table around every year.

I can see the argument that saying something while drunk put less value on it. However, as your sister doesn't have any valid counter argument for why she should get it, the drunk comment still stands (if your mom had said something else while sober that might take precedence).

If you really want to minimize fighting over it, you could always flip a coin (or have someone else flip a coin for you).

QFT

I love bullet points.

QFT +2

Gwar! wrote:

I also have about 200lb on him (We are Mario and Luigi, really. Italian Blood, I am the Older, Shorter Wider one and he is the Younger Taller Skinny one ).

warpcrafter wrote:I just pictured you as #21 and him as #24. Now I'm cleaning bits of sandwich off of my computer desk.

Errm...

HOLY MACKEREL!

I have watched all 3 seasons of Venture Bros. Like Ninety-seven times and never caught onto this.

Excuse me while I go slice off my own arm in shame (only to have it grow back because I forgot to apply the vinegar).

CaptainCommunsism wrote:I would say that you've got the right to be pissed at this point. your brother is irresponsible. plain and simple. next time, (if there is a next time) suggest making him send you the receipt, and say you'll never offer him any money ever again if he pulls this gak again.

You're pretty responsible, and reasonable for being pissed. your brother should have owned up to his debts, not gone off and bought a cellphone after a year. Admittedly, I did something similar (signed a new contract, but old phone was crap) but this didn't cost anywhere near as much.

You should, however, calm down. keep your cool and just do as I suggested or something similar or fits the situation. I understand it's a complicated situation.

Aren't canadians nice?

I had a similar situation. I loaned my brother $500 for his car - which he promptly put on horses which as far as I know are still racing (he has a pathological ability to never pick winners). I haven't spoken to him since.

+1 to the stick with a nail in it.

chromedog wrote:Aren't canadians nice?

I had a similar situation. I loaned my brother $500 for his car - which he promptly put on horses which as far as I know are still racing (he has a pathological ability to never pick winners). I haven't spoken to him since.

+1 to the stick with a nail in it.

Heh, don't get me started on Horses

But yeah, I think the Nailboard is the best solution atm.

I vote taking a pound of flesh from him as payment.

Nailboard is always best solution.

Ahtman wrote:
I think you are exaggerating for effect.Perhaps what you meant was that you don't think it is a good idea, not that you don't understand.

That would be the case, on both counts.

Ahtman wrote:
It could be that you have no trustworthy people in your life that has lead you down this path and the conclusion, and that would be sad, but I could see it. Do you just mean large sums or any sum at all? If you mean large sums of money I could see that but if you mean anything that just seems to be a sad testament to the people you surround yourself with if you can't trust any of them at all w/o a signed contract.

I would phrase it this way: If the sum of money is large enough to be considered a loan, and therefore significant to the lending party, it should be done under the auspices of a contract. If not, its a gift, and repayment should not be expected. Obviously the delineation of significance would vary based on the parties involved.

It isn't so much a matter of trust, as it is a way to avoid financial entanglements with loved ones. My family has a long history of feuds with respect to things like inheritance, debt, and other such matters.

Orkeosaurus wrote:I vote taking a pound of flesh from him as payment.

Yeah, they stopped us doing that in the 1970s unfortunately, after we unsuccessfully tried to retroactively add "as well as some of the other bits attached to the flesh with a weight tolerance of 20%" to the end of the contract. (See I may be a Trolle, but I am an Educated Trolle who reads Shakespeare OK??!?!?!?!)

See, I never got why Shylock didn't just say "hey, it's your responsibility to get me the flesh, if you lose blood in the process that's not my fault".

I mean, when you loan someone money do you then rifle through their pockets, open up their wallet, and take the money out of it yourself? Well, maybe, but that's usually when their feet are in cement.

I feel for you Gwar!. My little brother is exactly the same. We are a bit older, but between us we have the same 2 year separation (I'm 26 and he's 24). He used to pull stuff like this all the time. It gets better with age though. He has now paid off all his debts (except mine) and is saving up money for a mortgage.


I loaned my bro about 600 quid about 7 years ago, and when I asked for it back he whined like a little ***** to my mum until she told me to forget about it. "My baby doesn't have that kind of money...blah, blah, blah"

Oh And I nearly forgot...something that royally gets on my nerves, so I'm just gonna let the rage out. My mum has some savings that she basically wants (wanted?) us to share. Since I live in sunny Shanghai I haven't received my portion yet and the little turd of a brother asked for my share so he can get said mortgage. Mum said yes. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

I'm now in the process of convincing my mother that since I'm married and we are trying to get pregnant I'm actually in need of the cash as well.

Cutting it short...+1 for the board with nail to the head.

Sorry for the rant, and I hope you get your cash back soon!

@Gwar - I'm sure you'll get your smirking revenge one day. Just put it in the 'Rage Bank'.