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Drunkspleen wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:If you have two 1s, you have a pair of 1s, which is double 1s. It doesn't matter if you have a third die, it doesn't matter if you have a zillion more dice. A pair of 1s activates it. It is only the 1s that need be double, not both the 1s and the total number of dice rolled.

(Of course, as rolling three 1s actually makes 3 different pairs, the model suffers 3 Perils of the Warps.)

I disagree with this, the Perils rules say "If a result of a Psychic test is either a double 1 or a double 6 this indicates that something horrible has happened to the psyker" it can only trigger once because it's either "result is a double" or "result isn't a double" not "for every double 1 or 6 you roll".

Yeah, that last part was just me being silly.

Eldar Codex:Runes of Warding wrote:All enemy Psychic tests must be taken on 3D6, suffereing a Perils of the Warp attack on any roll of 12 or above.

BGB: Perils of the Warp wrote:If the result of a Psychic test is either a double 1 or double 6 this indicates that something horrible has happened to the psyker.

This is an instance of the general rule of double 1 and double 6 causing perils of the warp being over ridden by a specific rule suffering Perils of the Warp on a roll of 12 or above.

The eldar codex changes two parts, rolls are made on 3D6 and failures are 12 or above. It has it's own rules for how Perils of the Warp function.

What is left is that you get no armor or cover saves and if you roll an invulnerable save you must make it twice or take a S6 wound.

sbeasley wrote:

Eldar Codex:Runes of Warding wrote:All enemy Psychic tests must be taken on 3D6, suffereing a Perils of the Warp attack on any roll of 12 or above.

BGB: Perils of the Warp wrote:If the result of a Psychic test is either a double 1 or double 6 this indicates that something horrible has happened to the psyker.

This is an instance of the general rule of double 1 and double 6 causing perils of the warp being over ridden by a specific rule suffering Perils of the Warp on a roll of 12 or above.

The eldar codex changes two parts, rolls are made on 3D6 and failures are 12 or above. It has it's own rules for how Perils of the Warp function.

Nowhere does it say to ignore the normal rules.

Except it never replaces the double 1 result - it would need to have stated "instead of....." in order to do that.

CUrently you have BRB stating you suffer on a double 1 - this is not contradicted byt he codex

Omg, Nos, when did you swim across the Atlantic? You were supposed to invite me!! I was gonna bring my speedos!

I'm changing my argument.

The normal rules don't apply because you can never have the result of the test that is a double 1 or a double 6, the result could be: a (double 1 and a random d6), or a (double 6 and a random d6). While a double could be in the result set, it can never be the result of the test.

Why am i showing as Europe? Sky being funny...

I would play this exactly as the Codex says to... roll three dice and on a roll of 12+ suffer POTW.

Codex > Rulebook.

Specific > General

The rule adds a new clause but deos not override the BRB determination of PotW

When doing RAW, one of the things we must do when we come across rules that interact with each other is determine HOW they interact. In some cases, two rules are in conflict. In that case we must apply the more specific rule. In some cases, as with RoWa and PotW, both rules do not conflict with each other, so we must apply both of the rules. As stated before, no matter how many dice you roll, rolling any of the same number on two of the dice constitutes rolling "a double."

So, a double 1 or 6 will cause a PotW, as will rolling 12 or more.

When yousing runes of warding a Perils of the Wrp is triggered on a roll of:

x indicates any number.

(1,1,x), (6,6,x), (a total of: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 (any combination))

(1, 1, x) is not equal to (1, 1) PotW specifically states that if the result is a double 1 then... While (1, 1, x) may contain a double 1 it isn't the result of the test, so the rules in PotW do not apply only the Eldar codex section applies.

sbeasley wrote:(1, 1, x) is not equal to (1, 1) PotW specifically states that if the result is a double 1 then... While (1, 1, x) may contain a double 1 it isn't the result of the test, so the rules in PotW do not apply only the Eldar codex section applies.

So, rolling two ones is not a double 1?

What are you smoking and can I have some please!

The result is a double 1 ... not the result contains a double 1.

For example: 1,1,x contains a double one but is not a double one result.

Whereas 1,1 both contains and is a double 1 result.

Gwar! wrote:So, rolling two ones is not a double 1?

What are you smoking and can I have some please!

It is, but that isn't what I was saying.

It says that the result of the test must be a double 1.

You are saying that 1, 1, 3 is a double 1. It isn't, it contains a double 1, sure. The rule for PotW says the result must be a double 1, the whole result can never be a double 1 when 3 dice are involved, you must take the entire result, not part of it. The result of the test is a double 1 and a 3, not exactly a double 1 now is it, so no PotW.

For example you roll a 1, a 1 and a 4. This is a double one and a 4. Its like the WHFB magic system. Double 1= miscast. You roll 3,1,4,1. Contains a double 1. Miscast.

If you cant comprehend that take this example. Double is the same as two. Right? So lets replace that:
Perils on the warp occurs on the roll of two ones or two sixes. So you roll 1,5,1. How many 1s are there? 2. 2=double=Perils of the warp.

Its obvious.

Why are you bringing WHFB into this? This is WH40K.

That would be like saying movement is like WHFB, so let's break out the movement trays.

Plus the rule for PotW states that the result of the psychic test is a double 1. You are telling me that the result of 1, 1, 4 is a double 1.

I can comprehend what you are saying. It just isn't correct in this instance.

BGB: Perils of the Warp wrote:If the result of a Psychic test is either a double 1 or double 6 this indicates that something horrible has happened to the psyker.

The rules are clear that the result (the whole entirety of the result not part) has to be a double 1, and 1, 1, 4 is not a double 1 the result would be a double 1 and a 4.

sbeasley wrote:Why are you bringing WHFB into this? This is WH40K. Plus the rule for PotW states that the result of the psychic test is a double 1. You are telling me that the result of 1, 1, 4 is a double 1.

It is a double 1 and a 4. Nowhere does the rule say it must be ONLY a double one.

If the result of a Psychic test is either a double 1 ...

There can only be one result of a dice set.

1+1 = 2
The result is 2

By your logic
1+1+4 = {0, 1, 2, 5, 6}

It may contain all those values as part of the result, but it isn't the result.

sbeasley wrote:

BGB: Perils of the Warp wrote:If the result of a Psychic test is either a double 1 or double 6 this indicates that something horrible has happened to the psyker.

The rules are clear that the result (the whole entirety of the result not part) has to be a double 1, and 1, 1, 4 is not a double 1 the result would be a double 1 and a 4.

The parenthetical is not a rule in the book, in case anyone missed it.

hmm as someone stated earlier there are multiple meanings of double and that is what people are arguing about, seeing as how GW seems to use the term in their literature, (DE codex in 40k and WHFB another system but using the same grammatical terminology and written by the same group of individuals) they mean that a double is merely two of the same thing.

Whether that is enough to settle this debate RAW, is not clear (i still think RAW is 1,1,x is PotW), but I believe it at least settles the RAI debate.

sbeasley wrote:Why are you bringing WHFB into this? This is WH40K.

The context i used was a good example. -edit-RAW says on the roll of a double one. The dice come up as 1,1,2. Oh, i have rolled a double one and also rolled a 2.

I feel like both sides are really arguing two very opposite points, and using different logic so combining your logic with the other side's point is not going to work well.

tiekwando wrote:hmm as someone stated earlier there are multiple meanings of double and that is what people are arguing about, seeing as how GW seems to use the term in their literature, (DE codex in 40k and WHFB another system but using the same grammatical terminology and written by the same group of individuals) they mean that a double is merely two of the same thing.

Yes because we all know how consistent GW is with things.

Holy hell. Do we need to draw up a truth table for this argument?

Actually, that might be a good idea. . .

@sbeasly. From your sig i can see you are an eldar player. If this was in a tournament and your runes of warding made a dice roll of 1,1,x. I'm sure you'd argue it was Perils of the Warp, against your argument.

Eldar Own wrote:

sbeasley wrote:Why are you bringing WHFB into this? This is WH40K.

The context i used was a good example. -edit-RAW says on the roll of a double one. The dice come up as 1,1,2. Oh, i have rolled a double one and also rolled a 2.

BGB: Perils of the Warp wrote:If the result of a Psychic test is either a double 1 or double 6 this indicates that something horrible has happened to the psyker.

Where does RAW say on a roll of a double 1. If it did I would agree. I've quoted the book. It says the result. The result is 1,1,2. The result is not and never will be a double 1.

I think what one side is arguing is that the set {1,1,4} can be divided into {1,1}{4} or any other way you would like. For instance {1}{1}{4} if you wanted roll 3 to wounds rolls at once for instance.

While the other side is saying that {1,1,4} has to stay that way, or, assuming you don't roll single dice at a time, can be divided into {1}{1}{4} as each dice represents a single set, but for convenience sake have been thrown together.

Eldar Own wrote:@sbeasly. From your sig i can see you are an eldar player. If this was in a tournament and your runes of warding made a dice roll of 1,1,x. I'm sure you'd argue it was Perils of the Warp, against your argument.

Why would you assume that I would want to cheat my opponent?

Sbeasly, i do not have my rulebook on me but rulebooks tend to say roll rather than other things. Can someone check please.

I have a funny feeling that soon this thread will close...