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Explicitly would take a confirmation from Ultraforge.

-You can pretty much assume they got the C and D.
-It is no longer is distribution, and taken out of inventory at their major distributor. Not out of stock, it's actually not in my ordering system.

the Greater Wardemon is also now missing from the site.

thing is, if Uktraforge had the resources to stand up to GW I reckon they'd win.

I bought UF merc giant and I have to say its a fantastic sculpt, easily on par with any FW I have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
scratch that I'm talking b*llocks, its still there

well, if anyone is looking for it I do have one on ebay right now

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120499844090

Valhallan42nd wrote:

LunaHound wrote:http://www.ultraforgeminiatures.com/pleasuredemon.html

And this helps how?

It helps, There is one type still there. You just need to look a little harder. I like this one alot better then the big sack of crap n guts alot better.

sleazy wrote:the Greater Wardemon is also now missing from the site.

thing is, if Uktraforge had the resources to stand up to GW I reckon they'd win.

I bought UF merc giant and I have to say its a fantastic sculpt, easily on par with any FW I have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
scratch that I'm talking b*llocks, its still there

I got greater wardemons in today, and just re-ordered 3 more, along with some other bitz. Greater Plauge wasn't available though.

Grot 6 wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:

LunaHound wrote:http://www.ultraforgeminiatures.com/pleasuredemon.html

And this helps how?

It helps, There is one type still there. You just need to look a little harder. I like this one alot better then the big sack of crap n guts alot better.

There are several types of demon still there.

However, when somone asks for a plague demon, they might want a plague demon, not a pleasure demon. If you asked me for an wrench, and I handed you a screwdriver, wouldn't you be confused and/or miffed?

I absolutely love my big war daemon.

G

I would go with this one...



G

I think that figure works great as a Nurgle Daemon Prince. The other one worked better as a Greater Daemon or Daemon Lord.

The Greater War Daemon is still on their website. It amazes the bald face lying you see on Dakka these days.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I would go with this one...



G

BINGO!!!

you found him.

To this post-
There are several types of demon still there.

However, when somone asks for a plague demon, they might want a plague demon, not a pleasure demon. If you asked me for an wrench, and I handed you a screwdriver, wouldn't you be confused and/or miffed?


I say Huh? I never referred to any particular demon. I inferred this one. BUT... now that someone let the demon out of the 7 demon bag, I say there it is!

too bad it will probibly be taken down now for the same issue as well.

To be fair, for all of Dakka's bad mouthing every other 40k site on the internet I find it to be full of the most insipid and hateful bunch. WarSeer might not be the smartest place on the internet but at least the people who post there actually seem to like the hobby they're posting about.

But the Greater War Daemon is nice. I have one. I wish I purchased the Ultraforge Plague Daemon as he would have gone nicely next to Scabby.

CaseyVa wrote:To be fair, for all of Dakka's bad mouthing every other 40k site on the internet I find it to be full of the most insipid and hateful bunch.

I resemble that remark!

CaseyVa wrote:To be fair, for all of Dakka's bad mouthing every other 40k site on the internet I find it to be full of the most insipid and hateful bunch. WarSeer might not be the smartest place on the internet but at least the people who post there actually seem to like the hobby they're posting about.

But the Greater War Daemon is nice. I have one. I wish I purchased the Ultraforge Plague Daemon as he would have gone nicely next to Scabby.

Smile when you say that, partner!!!

I'm insipid... HE's The hateful one. Get it right next time!

As to Posting about not liking the hobby- Sure. I guess. *Looks at the three rooms full of GW stuff and then looks in the garage.* Whats WarSeer? never heard of them.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Well, emailed confirmation from Ultraforge today.

It's been discontinued with no plans to resculpt.

Truly, from the bottom of my cold dead heart, feth you Games Workshop. feth you to hell you bullying pricks.

Just to confirm, did Ultraforge explicitly confirm the model was taken down because of a demand from Games Workshop legal? Because there's nothing mentioned in your post that supports this allegation.

I still have not seen this question answered, so I must assume that is a negative?

I also wonder why some people still buy/play GW products if they hate it so much.

http://www.e-figures.com/store/product7047.html

from e-figures website listing for the Greater Plague Demon

Ultraforge has decided to overhaul our Greater Plaguedemon due to customer interaction. Ultraforge supporters are the greatest becuase they tell it like it is, and your criticism is extremely valuable to us. We do not have a board room after all... just a living room! Expect a whole new and improved miniature to arrive soon.

So the old one is gone and a new one will come.

TBD wrote:
I also wonder why some people still buy/play GW products if they hate it so much.

I know it was a rhetorical question, but let me try to explain this for you.

Sometimes, people's emotions are more nuanced than "I love this 100%" and "I hate this 100%". First, you might get ambivilence, "I don't really have strong feelings about this at all." Later, you might realize that the subject under discussion is made up of multiple aspects, facets, or components. So, you might feel strongly positive about several parts, strongly negative about another, and end up with a net total of a fairly strong positive. That doesn't mean those negative feelings are going to disappear.

If you've ever had a romantic relationship, you'll understand this. If not, watch the lifetime channel for a while. You can be married to a man that makes a good living, and is funny and caring, but get's drunk three times a week and makes you feel worried. Now, you still love him, and really love the best parts of him. But you hate the drinking and the yelling.

Now, realize that GW isn't selling us paper clips or even iPods. they're selling us the means and materials to build our own sci fi and fantasy armies. Our relationship with GW is one of deep emotions for the customer/company model. We love the models, and back ground, and flexibility and freedom that we have. We love having a large, world wide fan base. That doens't mean there aren't things that we dislike.

Now, you can ask the question as to why we don't spend time talking about the positives. We do, we just dont' sit around and praise GW all day. We discuss the positives in all of the hobby threads, in painting blogs and the fuff for nutters section. We discuss it in the tactics and army list section, and in battle reports. All of those are because we like the hobby.

So, I hope that answers your question.

Polonius it is the incessant liars here that ruin it for everyone.

G

I totally understand the mixed feelings that comes with investing a great deal of time and energy into a game and then being disappointed by some of the actions that comes with the game's creator. I went through a lot of that with PP and WarMachine.

I trust you are posting in good faith, Polonius, but from what I've read here (and I've lurked for a while) that there are many folks on here that just flat out hate GW and Jervis and anyone associated with the company. It's become incredibly personal and ugly for a lot of people on here.

I don't understand why there is this vitriol for GW.

CaseyVa wrote:I totally understand the mixed feelings that comes with investing a great deal of time and energy into a game and then being disappointed by some of the actions that comes with the game's creator. I went through a lot of that with PP and WarMachine.

I trust you are posting in good faith, Polonius, but from what I've read here (and I've lurked for a while) that there are many folks on here that just flat out hate GW and Jervis and anyone associated with the company. It's become incredibly personal and ugly for a lot of people on here.

I don't understand why there is this vitriol for GW.

some of it is shtick. I mean, we all play parts online, where you can craft a persona easier than IRL. So, grumpy "I hate GW guy" might be spewing hate here, and then playing 40k with his friends all weekend.

There are also some pretty legit complaints, particularly with the guys that have been in the hobby for a while. We've seen armies get axed (squats, lost and the damned, chaos legions), prices nearly double on plastics in less than a decade, and GW increasingly retreat from any interaction with its' customer base. Now, I'm not a negative guy, I like to be as fair minded as possible (or at least that's the role I play here on dakka), but I understand the nature of the angst people have with GW, even if I don't always agree with the wisdom of carrying on about it.

Finally, I've always assumed that for many people, complaining about GW is simply basic psychological projection of their other problems. Rather than discuss their work/family/health issues, people discuss their problems with their hobby.

Polonius, although I understand what you are saying I do not consider you one of the GW hater posse, so I am not sure you are the right person to answer this question. I am talking about the people who I only see whine and hate like they are on some sort of personal crusade. The ones who seem to grasp at anything they can find to bend it into a negative for GW.

It is that mindset I am trying to connect to still buying/playing GW product.

To compare the relationship between these people & GW to an abusive marriage is taking it a bit too far Imo. Or so I hope, because if someone really feels so emotional about this particular issue I genuinly feel they have completely lost touch with reality.

One of the main points is: what do they expect to achieve by stating their opinion again and again and again, thread after thread after thread, often accompanied by some stuff they Googled which they subsequently interpretate into "proof" through the glasses of their predetermined bias?

Some others have tried to explain to them why GW is doing what it is doing, the legalities etc and, very importantly, along with stating that even though they can understand where GW is coming from, morally basically nobody agrees 100% with what is going on. These people are called "apologists" apparently.

At this point you would think all opinions have been established, a lot of people agree to disagree (which is fine), and we are done with the issue. Yet I see the nerdrage continue almost everywhere I look around here, and I feel it is starting to degrade the forum.

But whatever, it is just my opinion, and it is not worth anything more than anyone else's. I will not lose any sleep over this.

It is sad to see people saying UF was forced to drop minis from their line when in truth this is not the case.

G

TBD wrote:Polonius, although I understand what you are saying I do not consider you one of the GW hater posse, so I am not sure you are the right person to answer this question. I am talking about the people who I only see whine and hate like they are on some sort of personal crusade. The ones who seem to grasp at anything they can find to bend it into a negative for GW.

It is that mindset I am trying to connect to still buying/playing GW product.

You're making a bit of an error, in how you are describing the attitude. There are people that seem to have something negative to say all the time, but frankly, there almost always is something negative about anything.

To compare the relationship between these people & GW to an abusive marriage is taking it a bit too far Imo. Or so I hope, because if someone really feels so emotional about this particular issue I genuinly feel they have completely lost touch with reality.

This is sort of a judgemental attitude. I dont' think anybody describes the depth of emotion between hobbyist and GW as being similar to a bad relationship, but for people that have been playing for a decade or more, and have spent a lot of time, money, and creativity on the hobby, there is a very deep emotional investment. In form, they're similar. If it's easier, think of it like a friendship with an old school buddy. You may have grown apart, and he may be a jerk, but he's still your mate, you know? Or compare it to a fan and his favorite sports team.

One of the main points is: what do they expect to achieve by stating their opinion again and again and again, thread after thread after thread, often accompanied by some stuff they Googled which they subsequently interpretate into "proof" through the glasses of their predetermined bias?

Here's a problem: by saying they have predetermined bias and they keep repeating the same thing, you're essentially writing off everything they say. In essence, you're doing much the same thing you accuse them. Read what they write, look at what they come up with. You don't need to agree, but it's probably not all garbage.

As for why they repeatedly restate their opinion? Why does a dog lick his ball? Because he can.

Some others have tried to explain to them why GW is doing what it is doing, the legalities etc and, very importantly, along with stating that even though they can understand where GW is coming from, morally basically nobody agrees 100% with what is going on. These people are called "apologists" apparently.

They're called apologists for the same reason the haters are called haters: they have a role nearly independent of any given issue. After some of the more technical legal explanations, why would anybody take their time to defend GW, particularly against what amounts to the accusation of being mean? I mean, why be so emotionally invested in a company that you go to the mat for them? Those threads bored me quickly, so I missed some of the worst stuff, but there comes a point where you're not arguing facts, you're advocating for GW.

At this point you would think all opinions have been established, a lot of people agree to disagree (which is fine), and we are done with the issue. Yet I see the nerdrage continue almost everywhere I look around here, and I feel it is starting to degrade the forum.

Are you serious? This is nothing. You should have seen what happened when the current Chaos book was released. Or any of the price increases. Nerdrage is a distant second to pornography as the most common substance online, and it's not going to change any time soon.

That's not true as C&W sites rank extremely high now.

G

Polonius wrote:

One of the main points is: bla ... predetermined bias?

Here's a problem: by saying they have predetermined bias and they keep repeating the same thing, you're essentially writing off everything they say. In essence, you're doing much the same thing you accuse them. Read what they write, look at what they come up with. You don't need to agree, but it's probably not all garbage.

As for why they repeatedly restate their opinion? Why does a dog lick his ball? Because he can.

Some others have tried to explain blaa ... These people are called "apologists" apparently.

They're called apologists for the same reason the haters are called haters: they have a role nearly independent of any given issue. After some of the more technical legal explanations, why would anybody take their time to defend GW, particularly against what amounts to the accusation of being mean? I mean, why be so emotionally invested in a company that you go to the mat for them? Those threads bored me quickly, so I missed some of the worst stuff, but there comes a point where you're not arguing facts, you're advocating for GW.

I am saying they have a predetermined bias after having read their posts. This thread probably is a very good example of it. I am not sure why you think I have not. I judge by what I have seen, not what I have not seen.

Another example: the fansite vs C&D fallout thread. That thread was dead for more than ten days already, but a member of the posse resurrected it by posting something that I am almost sure was already discussed in a thread of its own. Read it and tell me that was not just done to re-establish a place to get the bashing train rolling.

One would also hope that they put more thought in what they post than what a dog puts in licking his balls, but maybe you are right.

The second part I quoted, I really really disagree with that. There is a huge difference in the way the "whiners" and the "apologists" behave.

Most of the "apologizing" consisted of explaining these legalities after something was posted that was presented like a fact but was not (like a comment such as: "GW doesn't have a legal leg to stand on", without any further ado), and logically if you do not think GW is in the wrong legally you do not think they are being "mean" either. On top of that, I have not seen anyone get anywhere near as emotional about defending GW as the haters have been. Of course if somebody can point out the contrary I would be happy to back off that statement.

Action -> reaction

Whining -> apologizing

So, if there would be no more whining there would not be any more apologizing either, and everybody would be happy

Except, I said that they're called apologists for their actions after the technical explanations. Not all the time, to be sure, and it's not exactly shocking that the average Dakkite doesn't have a strong grasp on the nuances of international IP law, but the people most often labeled apologists are those that go beyond merely explaining why GW would do something, or what they're legal argument is. I know I've never been labeled an apologist and I do that frequently.

The guys labeled as such are the guys posting repeatedly defending GW, which is pretty much the exact definition of apologist. It does not mean, one that makes excuses or apologizes for the action of another. It simply means one that defends the actions of another.

I'm also questioning your neutrality here in repeatedly referring to actions as whining. Not all negative comments are whining.

Not all negativity is whining, very true. I have, what I think, are some reasonable problems with Privateer Press and while I felt betrayed by how that company progressed I like to think those problems are still based in reason.

All the same, it appears that those that seem to enjoy hating GW also seem to make it personal and have a great deal of hatred for people like Jervis Johnson and other people behind the game.

There may be apologists but they don't seem to hate an actual person that they don't know. They also are taking part in a conversation about a hobby they enjoy which seems a lot more productive than talking about something which many seem to openly hate.

Not that GW is perfect. They make some bad decisions often enough and they should be taken to task for those. On the whole, though, I enjoy their games and models for a lot of good reasons and the areas where I think GW falls short on I'll express my viewpoints in hopes that they improve instead of merely talking about GW's short comings as a way to feel good about one's self.

Yes, but where has it happened that someone defended GW without any of the legality issues being linked to it (or anything else that was unnecessary and not a response to unbased negative comments for that matter)? And how often? Point me to them and I will happily say I am wrong.

And where did I say all negative comments are whining? I did never say such a thing. The continued talk about these C&Ds and related topics have become whining by now, IMO. That is the only thing I am talking about here.

People complaining about price raises, overpriced items, crappy sculpts or their armies getting screwed over by GWs new rules editions, etc... you will never ever see or hear me say that is not perfectly fine.

If we were all forced to be completely honest then honestly there would be a lot less discussions like this.

G

As long as Dakka's #1 is "Be nice to one another" rather than "Don't be an idiot", GBF will remain 100% correct.