GW battalions and their value compared to the competition.

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**LunaHound**

Also a reminder , GW generally are better presented due to better painters -_-

**JohnHwangDD**

@Luna: That's debatable. Rackham has some amazing painters who did a lot with their sculpts. Their blends often leave GW's painters in the dust.

**LunaHound**

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Luna: That's debatable. Rackham has some amazing painters who did a lot with their sculpts. Their blends often leave GW's painters in the dust.

I know D: i meant GW compared to the ones earlier in the thread. ( warlord games , had to check :x )

**JohnHwangDD**

OK, no problem.

**Wolfen**

What about this comparison: (paints not included)

Mantic
This set contains all the models you need to build an epic Elven force including:

* 5 x metal Hero figures, including a mighty Elven King, his royal Standard Bearer, the Mage-Queen and her pet cat, and the proud Prince Nuadalor
* 2 x units of 20 Spearmen, including command group
* 2 x units of 20 Bowmen, including command group
* 20 x Scouts
* 2 x Bolt Throwers, and crew.

~70 minis

for 129 USD

GW

High Elves Battalion

This battalion boxed set provides a great selection of plastic models, and is an ideal way to start a High Elf army or bolster an existing army.

Contents: 16 High Elf Spearmen (including Champion, Standard Bearer and Musician), 16 High Elf Archers (including Champion, Standard Bearer and Musician), 8 High Elf Silver Helms (including Champion, Standard Bearer and Musician), 1 High Elf Bolt Thrower.

90 USD for ~43 minis

**Agamemnon2**

Still a case of apples vs. oranges. Fine if you want to work up a conflict, useless for anything else.

**Redbeard**

Wolfen wrote:
This set contains all the models you need to build an epic Elven force including:

* 5 x metal Hero figures, including a mighty Elven King, his royal Standard Bearer, the Mage-Queen and her pet cat, and the proud Prince Nuadalor
* 2 x units of 20 Spearmen, including command group
* 2 x units of 20 Bowmen, including command group
* 20 x Scouts
* 2 x Bolt Throwers, and crew.

~70 minis

5 (metal) + 20 (spearmen) + 20 (spearmen) + 20 (bowmen) + 20 (bowmen) + 20 (scouts) + 2 (bolt throwers) + crew = 107+crew, not 70. Just sayin.

**Kilkrazy**

I think the Matic figures look very nice, though I am not a WHFB player so maybe my opinion is off base.

**Osbad**

The Mantic figures are fine quality-wise. Whether you like their style is a personal matter of taste.

I'm no fan of High Elves of any stripe, but I'm interested in the news that Mantic's next army is going to be Undead. Now we all love zombies...!

**LuciusAR**

Try as I might I can’t thing of a single other industry whereby the bigger players need to charge more for their product to compensate for their larger overheads.

The idea that GW need to charge more per miniature because of their stores is apologist nonsense, stores should pay for themselves via the extra volume of sales they generate. If they don't then they need to go. There should no need for unit prices to be increased as a result of this.

GW are charging this much because they can.

**Cane**

LuciusAR wrote:Try as I might I can’t thing of a single other industry whereby the bigger players need to charge more for their product to compensate for their larger overheads.

Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, any video rental place, Best Buy....pretty much any business thats also a retailer since you're likely able to find a cheaper price online than one at a brick and mortar store.

The idea that GW need to charge more per miniature because of their stores is apologist nonsense, stores should pay for themselves via the extra volume of sales they generate. If they don't then they need to go. There should no need for unit prices to be increased as a result of this.

If you actually kept up on GW finances they do close ailing shops.

GW are charging this much because they can.

Yup, in addition to trying to make a profit of course.

**Kilkrazy**

LuciusAR wrote:Try as I might I can’t thing of a single other industry whereby the bigger players need to charge more for their product to compensate for their larger overheads.

The idea that GW need to charge more per miniature because of their stores is apologist nonsense, stores should pay for themselves via the extra volume of sales they generate. If they don't then they need to go. There should no need for unit prices to be increased as a result of this.

GW are charging this much because they can.

They can and they have to, because running the retail chain is very expensive.

I'm not saying that to apologise. I'm saying GW's business strategy is to have a strong high street presence (and news-stand with WD) which brings in the novice punters. It's a different way of marketing the games.

Whether it is a successful one is another matter.

**JohnHwangDD**

LuciusAR wrote:Try as I might I can’t thing of a single other industry whereby the bigger players need to charge more for their product to compensate for their larger overheads.

Really?

Get quotes to have Anti-Virus run on your home computer at your home by:
- the no-name guy working out of his garage,
- Geek Squad based out of Best Buy,
- IBM

I bet the bigger guys are going to charge more than the no-name guy that you found on the Internet.

**Herohammernostalgia**

Cane wrote:
LuciusAR wrote:Try as I might I can’t thing of a single other industry whereby the bigger players need to charge more for their product to compensate for their larger overheads.

Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, any video rental place, Best Buy....pretty much any business thats also a retailer since you're likely able to find a cheaper price online than one at a brick and mortar store.

The biggest Dutch phone/broadban/digital television provider has that too, about the most expensive Mbits/Euro ratio compared to it's competitors and they have their own shops throughout the country, like GW. It's actually rather normal for the Big One to have BIG prices in a lot of markets. And what about the big Fast Food chains? I can get a tasty burger cheaper at the snackbar/diner around the corner than at the Big Yellow M.

**Grot 6**

LuciusAR wrote:I’ve been noticing of late that battalion boxes are looking a tab sparse of late. The amount saved is shrinking and the number of models is now just plain disappointing.

Until today I simply wrote this off and didn’t give it much thought, then I clapped eyes on this at warlord games.

http://www.warlordgames.co.uk/?p=3421

This is a series starter forces being sold by Warlord games for £50, that’s £10 less than GW battalions. Lets take a look at the contents of the Roman one shall we?

2 metal Roman Officers
30 plastic Imperial Roman Legionaries
20 Plastic Praetorian Guard
20 plastic Imperial Roman Veterans
24 plastic Imperial Roman Auxiliaries
Metal Auxiliary Command (Centurion, Signifer & Cornicen)
8 metal Balearic Slingers
1 metal Imperial Roman Scorpion catapult.

That’s just under 100, yep 100 infantry figures plus metal command, metal skirmishers and a metal war machine for £50. Now these are 28mm so stand next to GW models, they are not ‘heroic’ scale but are still the same size. They are made of the same material as GW plastics and are the quality of sculpturing is just as good if not better.

Lets compare this to the £60 Empire battalion shall we?

20 Empire State Troops
10 Empire Handgunners,
10 Empire Greatswords
8 Empire Knightssquare

That’s half, yep half the number of figures. Even factoring in the fact 8 are cavalry this is appalling value in comparison to the Warlord game equivalent and for £10 more as well.

At my local club WAB is rapidly picking up in popularity thanks to just this sort of thing.

If a comparatively small company can sell 28mm plastics at this price why are GW battalions such appalling value in comparison?

Have you played this game yet?

How does it compare?

Any way of playing this game with 1/72 scale minis?

**Bloodhorror**

Bringing a rumour into this here. but i saw a price for the new nid battleforce somewhere and it was £55

A great start to your alien menace on the tabletop, the Tyranid Battleforce contains all you need to bolster your existing forces too, with plenty of Gaunts, Genestealers and Warriors - and a mighty Carnifex to terrify your opponents!

release date:
19/12/09
contents:
this boxed set contains

3x
Tyranid Warriors
8x
Tyranid Genestealers
8x
Tyranid Termagants
8x
Tyranid Hormagaunts
1x
Tyranid Carnifex

Unforutnetly Gamesworkshop have gotten rid off all record of the old Battleforce... and i cba to look for it...
but twas £50 for a few more models i think. not £55 for less!!!

**aromasin**

It's called inflation. Get used to it!

**Bloodhorror**

yes. but putting in less models would surely lower the price?

**LunaHound**

Bloodhorror wrote:yes. but putting in less models would surely lower the price?

Not really , here is why:

1) Ppl usually compare price via per model . They dont just say Oh a box set only cost $20 but it only have 2models but its cheap because its $20!

2) It depends on how efficient the sprue is cut. Look at the latest AOBR and Skull pass for example , no space are wasted .

**JD21290**

Asda George range clothing: £5 for a white polo with a design.

Henly's clothing range: £80 for a white polo with a design.

Your paying for the name here.
GW is a very large and well established company, of course they will charge more, they have pretty much cornered the market when it comes to playable wargames minitures.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Warlord Games Celt boxed set should make for excellent and very cheap chaos marauders.

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/celtic-warriors-104-p.asp

**Kilkrazy**

WHAB (Warhammer Ancient Battles) is a fairly popular game. It is a spin-off from some earlier edition of WHFB, dropping the magic rules and introducing some historical army based rules instead. If you like WHFB you should get on with WHAB pretty well.

Figures are based individually on 20mm square (?) bases. There's no reason you couldn't use 1/72 scale or 15mm figures instead of 28mm.

**Platuan4th**

All I know is that for ~$20 USD less than GW's Battalions, I can buy a full 2000 AP AT-43 Army as opposed to the partial amount of an army that the Battalion gives me.

**Polonius**

Platuan4th wrote:All I know is that for ~$20 USD less than GW's Battalions, I can buy a full 2000 AP AT-43 Army as opposed to the partial amount of an army that the Battalion gives me.

I'm not questioning their value to you, but that same price gets me an army I could never use, as nobody I know plays the game.

That's the premium worth paying.

**augustus5**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
NELS1031 wrote:People complain about GW price increases like it only happens at GW. If any of these internet scuplting/gaming companies opened up half as many retail establishments as GW and staffed them with 2-3 Full timers, 1-2 part timers. a manager, a regional manager for all stores in a certain area, etc etc. you would in fact see a dramatic increase in their prices. And all of that is regardless of the price of tin/lead/plastic, which most people like pointing towards like that is the only thing that drives price increases in our hobby.

None of them do, because it's a bad business model for any company that wants to cater to wargamers instead of mewling preteens. Dedicated retail requires vast volumes, and the GW model forces their games into a certain shape none of the others want to emulate. Even if given their druthers, I believe Privateer Press or Warlord Games wouldn't open their own retail chains, because their products are not nor could they ever be made for the lowest common denominator.

So in your opinion 40k and/or WHFB players are the lowest common denominator compared to historical wargames players? I'm sick of hearing how 40k players are nothing but "mewling preteens," as you seem to think.

**JohnHwangDD**

Polonius wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:All I know is that for ~$20 USD less than GW's Battalions, I can buy a full 2000 AP AT-43 Army as opposed to the partial amount of an army that the Battalion gives me.

I'm not questioning their value to you, but that same price gets me an army I could never use, as nobody I know plays the game.

That's the premium worth paying.

That's well-put, but I would look at it like this:
- If it's 40k, one can reasonably assume plenty of opponents will have their own armies.
- If it's anything else, you should expect to provide everything (like a board game).

So:
- for 40k, you pay $100 for the Battalion.
- for AT-43, you pay 2x $80 for both forces.

If you luck out, somebody else plays locally. But otherwise, you want to play it, you need to pony up so others can try it out with the opposing force.

**Platuan4th**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
So:
- for 40k, you pay $100 for the Battalion.
- for AT-43, you pay 2x $80 for both forces.

If you luck out, somebody else plays locally. But otherwise, you want to play it, you need to pony up so others can try it out with the opposing force.

There's 6-8 AT-43 regulars at (one of) my FLGS. Even if there weren't, Rackham provided Sentinels with the Army Boxes for Demos.

But, I do get your point. But then, if no one played or was planning on buying into a game, I doubt someone would buy it themselves(if their store carried it).

I mean, I would, but I'm more of a collector than a player when it comes to games(hence why I own so many armies and systems compared to the amount of opponents I may actually have).

**Tacobake**

I think GW's battalions are OK. I mean at least they exist. Make them too good and they will be all people buy. Fantasy maybe could use some larger sets but 40k remains a skirmishing game compared to say FoW.

And don't forget about Battle for Skull Pass and the 40k sets. Not to mention sets GW has released in the past.

**Grot 6**

Games Workshop has always been upper end as far as price goes.

The inflation goes to a couple of factors. 1 being inflation. 2. being cost of materials, design, the even popular trademark, the design, the sales, the packaging, the artwork, the transportation costs, the handling, and every and anything else that I missed.

Side effects of our current economy, and as much as we want to, GW is taking the piss on this as well. You will rest assuredly hear of more stores opening in new markets, closing in others, and assorted redshirts taking thier place along with numerous others as a consequence of making ends meet on the bottom line. I am not an economics major, but the supply and demand is only a small part of the equasion with the overall economy.

GW- more overhead, more mouths to feed, more more more.

"Other guy"- smaller overhead, start up company, less moths to feed, no over extention of base and excessive upper mqamagement to poay for, less, less, and just beginning.
If they do well, they get into the market. Nowhere are they on GW league, maybe more on the league of the perry's, Warmachine, Wyrd, Pulp City, etc.
These guys cannot aford the mistakes that GW has been making in the past ten or so years bringing us up to this point that we are at today. If they did, they would soon be in the same boat as GDW, Avalon Hill, or FASA.

slow and steady wins the race.

As much as you like it, you are paying for more then the game.

**JohnHwangDD**

Grot 6 wrote: These guys cannot aford the mistakes that GW has been making in the past ten or so years bringing us up to this point that we are at today. If they did, they would soon be in the same boat as GDW, Avalon Hill, or FASA.

No, they'd be in the same boat as VOR, VOID, Confrontation, SST, B5 Wars, and the other minis games which have since died.

PP WM/H and FOW are the big exceptions - the only challengers who've managed to hang on and do well.