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No no no... They Eat the souls for sustenance. They merely use our Blood to bargain with.

Well I think we can probably hazard a guess as to why Pyrovores aren't selling. Just look at their rules...

Honestly, I don't think Pyrovores are Bad per say, they're just Infantry killers in an army that doesn't need to buy stuff for the purpose of killing Infantry. Same reason I'll probably never use a T-Fex with the acid gun, even though the acid gun is rather quite nice.

They're awful Aduro. Truly awful. Let me break it down for you.

45 points (and an Elite slot) nets you a creautre with a Heavy Flamer and a Power Weapon. And Acid Blood as well as a nice bonus. Ok, sounds pretty good on the outset, right?

Then you look at its stats:

WS3. Hmm... so he is worse than a Marine in HTH. That's unexpected. Well he probably has loads of attacks to make up for it - I mean, he has a Power Weapon, so they'll let him get some mileage out of it, right?

A1. Ok, wait... so, WS3 with 1 Power Weapon attack? Ok, well then it'll be a single big hit, S6+, so he can tackle people and vehicles. That'll be it, right?

S4. So, 45 points for one WS3 S4 power weapon attack? Ok, well, he's probably tough enough to at least make it up the table and get into HTH, right?

T4. Uhh... so no tougher than a Marine, despite being half the size of a Razorback. Ok... but y'know, his armour will keep him safe for sure, right? I mean look at the thing - it's huge!

Sv4+. But that means... with T4 heavy bolters will just carve him up. Ok then, he'll have heaps of wounds - loads of flufftastic synaptic redundancies to show how much damage he can take, right?

W2. Guess not. But he'll be able to cause loads of damage before dying, won't he?

I1. Uhh... so he swings last... assuming he ever swings at all, given he's WS3 T4 W2 with a 4+ save.

So 135 points nets you 3 models that take up an Elite slot and will die to 13 and a half Heavy Bolter shots (assuming no cover). This unit deftly slays 1.5 Marines on the charge... actually, they don't, because half of them will die before they even get to swing. They're also competing with Zoanthropes, Hive Guard and Death Leapers.

They're not just 'bad per se', they're irredeemably terrible. They are, I'm fairly certain, the single worst choice in the Codex. What in the high holy feth was Arby thinking when he wrote that entry? Was he high on something? Coming down off something, what? I know every Codex gets it's new thing that sucks terribly (Spawn, Flash Gitz, Possessed, Penal Legionnaires, Punishers, and so on) but Jesus... wasn't this obvious? GW really do design units in a vacuum...

And it's a pity too, as I adore the new model.

I don't know why people keep on complaining about how the nid codex is so bad, just because you can't run stupid OP lists anymore because the codex is balanced out. A lot of people are like "oh know! I have to many unit choices, so i can't run unbalanced lists anymore, i actually have to use my mind to make a competitive list because of all 33 unit choices I have!"
I would love to have such a diverse army for my inquisition...We can pretty much only make 1 competitive build same with CSM (to my knowledge)

What you get are three Heavy Flamers dropping in on the enemy and lighting them up. 13 Heavy Bolter shots is A Lot of Heavy Bolter shots, especially as I rarely see anyone take them now days, baring the occasional Razorback. If your Spod didn't deviate bad, then they also risk Asplosions if they hit them with any Str 8 guns, so they've got to expend the amount of small arms fire to kill them.

And yes, they suck in HtH, but anything that attacks them is risking it's own death because of their Acid Blood. You actually cause More damage with your death in HtH than with your actual attacks.

Despite not being really Bad, I don't think the unit is particularly Good either, and I don't think I'd ever take it, not when the other Elites are Awesome. It's a specialized unit that fills a role `Nids don't have to make the extra effort to specialize in.

I think you're supposed to use them like an EXPENSIVE spore mine(haha).
Drop them in a pod or suicide run a mob.
Then have something else to clean up.

I'll be honest here: I overreacted to just about every aspect of this codex.

>ZOMG the abilities are amazing! -> Approriate point increases

>ZOMG gaunts can outshoot space marines! -> for 10 points a piece

>FAIL TOWN, my Fex's are all worthless! -> They can still fire 12 S6 shots a turn twinlinked, from a drop pod no less.

>Nid's can pop vehicles now? No way, they're an assault army! -> So Orks shouldn't get Rokkit launchas?

>That's a crazy powerful unit for a decent cost, way to go Cruddance! -> Oh wait, it's T4... Or better yet: oh wait, its only got a 3+ save... (As God forbid we start taking FREE missile launchers in each tac squad)

>Etc. etc. etc.

If you're honestly worried about not having hive guard in time... take those old venom cannons for you warriors, stick the flesh hooks on the top and hit the head of the model and the middle of the gun with some green stuff. BAM, a hive guard for 1/3 the cost.

Aduro wrote:What you get are three Heavy Flamers dropping in on the enemy and lighting them up. 13 Heavy Bolter shots is A Lot of Heavy Bolter shots, especially as I rarely see anyone take them now days, baring the occasional Razorback.

Oh wow. Now we're at 175 points for 3 Flamers that will last a turn. And you don't need Heavy Bolters - I was simply pointing out the most efficient way of killing them. Bolters/Shootas/ShuriCats will do. Pulse Rifles will dominate.

They are a terrible irredeemable unit with no good points at all.

Aduro wrote:You actually cause More damage with your death in HtH than with your actual attacks.

I'd rather do lots of damage in life than have something that's really good when they die.

And, again, they're competing against Zoanthropes.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They are a terrible irredeemable unit with no good points at all.

I tend to agree with you there.
As a unit, they are pretty god awful, but the model could have life being a slightly different/interesting biovore. A squad of 3 biovores is not bad at all in the current 'Nid 'dex. Those of you who were about to throw your new pyrovore model out the window because HMBC made you understand how much their written rules suck might want to consider trying out a counts as.
Just a thought.

There is a place, where armies exist that are not MEQS.

Many of these fabled armies have saves that are 4+ or lower.

Pyrovores are pretty effective at doing what they are designed to do.

That group of eldar pathfinders ruining your day because they wound your hive tyrant and guard on 4+ and rend on 6s? Here's a magic trick for you, spore pod drops, *Fwoosh* no more pathfinders.

They may not surive long after, but they've accomplished their job. It's kind of like Flamers of Tzeench, they die after they come down, but everyone fears their arrival. Nothing gets into an opponents head quite so much as a unit that can land anywhere on the board and kill an entire unit of troops. it changes the way they deploy and move.

Now, you may not take Pyrovores for a number of reasons. The Mech heavy meta game may be why, or you may face nothing but MEQs in your meta. That's not a failing on the part of the Tyranid Codex, it's the people who choose to play their lists in that manner. If you run up against green tide, 9 Pyrovores would be a great alpha strike to start sending it's way to a green trickle.

I'm hoping either the new Necron, DE, or Tau codex (or all three) are well done and chew armor up for breakfast, to help swing the meta game from it's ultra mech current state back towards a more balanced approach.

"I'm hoping either the new Necron, DE, or Tau codex (or all three) are well done and chew armor up for breakfast, to help swing the meta game from it's ultra mech current state back towards a more balanced approach."

HAHA those armies are never comming out, wel maybe eldar next year, but it's BA and then fantasy 8th. BT and DA still have to come as well. The other xenos to come out before 6th is eldar. I hate to be this guy but I've lost hope.

That seems wrong to me, since the general cycle is MEQ/non-MEQ/MEQ/non-MEQ.

Iboshi2 wrote:As a unit, they are pretty god awful, but the model could have life being a slightly different/interesting biovore.

Hell yes! The model's great. I'm not fan of the Misanthrope or whatever it's called, but the Pyrovore and Hive Guard are two new models I think are really cool. Given that they took the 'Trygon' from epic and turned it from a giant Baneblade-esque super-heavy HTH combat slug thing and made it a much smaller snake-like creature, surely they could have done the same within with the Exocrine from Epic, reduced its size, and given us the Exocrine Bio-Artillery, armed with a Bio-Cannon, using what we now have as the Pyrovore. That would have worked fine!



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroot Loops wrote:There is a place, where armies exist that are not MEQS.

Many of these fabled armies have saves that are 4+ or lower.

Which has all of nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Kroot Loops wrote:Pyrovores are pretty effective at doing what they are designed to do.

If that role is 'dying horribly and quickly', then yes, you're 100% on the money.

Kroot Loops wrote:They may not surive long after, but they've accomplished their job.

Or go spend those 175 points on something else. Pathfinders also suck in HTH, so just attack them in HTH with something that's faster and more numerous (therefore it can make it there). Hell, a unit of 20 T-Gants in a Pod will do. Land, shoot, take return fire, move again, shoot, charge. Bye bye Pathfinders.

Kroot Loops wrote:The Mech heavy meta game may be why, or you may face nothing but MEQs in your meta. That's not a failing on the part of the Tyranid Codex, it's the people who choose to play their lists in that manner.

This isn't about meta. This isn't about MEQ's. This is about a unit that has undeniably bad stats and a huge price tag taking up an Elite slot and wasting a perfectly good new model.

45pts isn't that bad.

Seriously, it's like deep striking some heavy flamers. Surely you can see the tactial application that can be utilised there? Personally, I would find them to be very useful as one shot creature. (Not that I would ever consider collecting those filthy xenos) Heavy-Flamers against anything short of an MEQ is going to hurt.

I'm not saying it's a win-all unit. (There ARE other options, y'know) But it does have it's place. It's not as bad as you're painting it out to be.

@Broken Loose: So you are mad because IG do what they do best, be shooty, and Tyranids don't do it better? Nids aren't a shooty army, they are a CC army that has some cool shooty stuff. MCs are still your best, and most reliable, method of dealing with tanks. So what? That is the way it should be.

Makes sense. Only if 'Nids became the new Tau would they be worthy of much Nerdrage.

What? The...they...? FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Emperors Faithful wrote:45pts isn't that bad.

Terminators cost less than that, have better stats, are better in HTH and Deep Strike without having to pay for it. Ogryn are 40 points, are T5 W3, and they have WS4 at the very least and will swing before a Pyrovore.

So yes, 45 points is that bad. Pyrovores are awful.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Seriously, it's like deep striking some heavy flamers.

Yes, 3 whole heavy flamers. Whoop-de-gak. And a whole Elite slot.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:45pts isn't that bad.

Terminators cost less than that, have better stats, are better in HTH and Deep Strike without having to pay for it. Ogryn are 40 points, are T5 W3, and they have WS4 at the very least and will swing before a Pyrovore.

So yes, 45 points is that bad. Pyrovores are awful.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Seriously, it's like deep striking some heavy flamers.

Yes, 3 whole heavy flamers. Whoop-de-gak. And a whole Elite slot.

And Terminators have only 1 Wd each, and only 1 H.Flamer in a unit of 5 that costs no less than 205 points. They also hit at I1. Whereas for these 205 points you get 3 Pyrovores and their spore pod and you have some to spare. Comparable deal, imo.

Alkasyn wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:45pts isn't that bad.

Terminators cost less than that, have better stats, are better in HTH and Deep Strike without having to pay for it. Ogryn are 40 points, are T5 W3, and they have WS4 at the very least and will swing before a Pyrovore.

So yes, 45 points is that bad. Pyrovores are awful.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Seriously, it's like deep striking some heavy flamers.

Yes, 3 whole heavy flamers. Whoop-de-gak. And a whole Elite slot.

And Terminators have only 1 Wd each, and only 1 H.Flamer in a unit of 5 that costs no less than 205 points. They also hit at I1. Whereas for these 205 points you get 3 Pyrovores and their spore pod and you have some to spare. Comparable deal, imo.

This is going to turn into a 'are pyrovores good?' debate isnt it?

Theyre not that bad, thier template weapon is good, they ignore armour saves and 45pts is reletavely cheap. I like the model too.

Yep, they aren't the best unit in the book, but they aren't the horrible unit H is trying to paint them as.

Those 20 T gants you deep struck are going to be out of synapse range and therefore highly questionable to doing what you want them too. The pyrovores will be too, but they are specifically allowed to still shoot their template even while subject to instinctive behavior-feed.

Your hung up on WS, you've complained about it with both Pyrovores and Carnifex. WS 3 still hits anything short of WS 7 on 4+. It's attack is a power weapon, and people hitting it have a chance to take a power weapon wound as well.


So like I said, not the best unit in the book, but not bad. Given the reasons you're complaining, I'm surprised you're not complaining about Biovores, they take up a heavy slot and can't kill a vehicle.

Kroot Loops wrote:Yep, they aren't the best unit in the book, but they aren't the horrible unit H is trying to paint them as.

Those 20 T gants you deep struck are going to be out of synapse range and therefore highly questionable to doing what you want them too. The pyrovores will be too, but they are specifically allowed to still shoot their template even while subject to instinctive behavior-feed.

Your hung up on WS, you've complained about it with both Pyrovores and Carnifex. WS 3 still hits anything short of WS 7 on 4+. It's attack is a power weapon, and people hitting it have a chance to take a power weapon wound as well.


So like I said, not the best unit in the book, but not bad. Given the reasons you're complaining, I'm surprised you're not complaining about Biovores, they take up a heavy slot and can't kill a vehicle.

biovores and pyrovores are indeed two of the worst units in the 'nid codex.

Why anyone would EVER take them over something else, is beyond me.

The best part is the Volatile rule: Yes sir, please hit me with an anti-Tyranid Powerfist. Ram this guy into a unit of Terminators or Tactical Marines and enjoy the fireworks.

Kroot Loops wrote:So like I said, not the best unit in the book, but not bad. Given the reasons you're complaining, I'm surprised you're not complaining about Biovores, they take up a heavy slot and can't kill a vehicle.

I agree. I think biovores are really bad, a lot worse than pyrovores, especially now that there are a lot better things you can take with a HS slot. The main thing that's deterring me form buying a pyrovore is its £20 price tag, rather expensive, and my metal model-hatred sense is telling me i shouldn't buy it because it's hard to put together.

Way I see it, he's best used for clumped up units. Mythetic Spore them behind enemy lines, drop it nice and close, flamer template and burn a whole scoring unit out of their hole. Works wonders on kroot/guard holding that one objective on the side.

Situational unit at best. Had much more promise but looks like they got kinda lazy near the end and didn't appropriate any last bit of data necessary for his stats to justify his purpose.

Kurgash wrote:Way I see it, he's best used for clumped up units. Mythetic Spore them behind enemy lines, drop it nice and close, flamer template and burn a whole scoring unit out of their hole. Works wonders on kroot/guard holding that one objective on the side.

But that means somebody isn't playing all MEQs all the time.

Next, we'll hear argument that Whirlwinds and Griffons are bad...

The Nid codex is fine. Some good, some average, some bad. The model shortage is due to the new release and the grab for all the ZOMG NEW STUFF!!!1!1! reaction. It'll come back; proxy til then.

Bad codices are the ones where there are no bad choices and stuff is undercosted and/or horribly over-powered. Space Wolves are closer to this than the Nids; they seem like a power army waiting to happen, IMO.

LeperMessiah wrote:The Nid codex is fine. Some good, some average, some bad. The model shortage is due to the new release and the grab for all the ZOMG NEW STUFF!!!1!1! reaction. It'll come back; proxy til then.

Bad codices are the ones where there are no bad choices and stuff is undercosted and/or horribly over-powered. Space Wolves are closer to this than the Nids; they seem like a power army waiting to happen, IMO.

Yep.

Most folks I know are proxying biovores and tyrant guard as hive guard for now.

Space wolves are a power army *Waiting* to happen? I proxied my BA for them and dominated fun games and tournaments from day 1

Got boring using a codex that is better at everything than others just because theyre space wolves

Broken Loose wrote:As a result, Hive Guards are sold out nationwide and are not be expected to be replenished until late March.

Huh, at my Local Gaming Store, they have about 20 of the blisters waiting to be bought, and there are like another 10 at a different LGS I go to. Maybe they're only sold out at GW?

~ [<3]