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i would keep doing what GW is doing, it would cost money to have all the different types of guys on for every army, not leaving much space open, and if you only put whatever is going to be cast, that will hurt the converting community imo

I said yes, mainly because there wasnt an other option.

Id release the codex without certain units, mainly for something to convert. This hobby started off with the majority of hobbyists converting and making their own things, and Id like to keep to those roots for some of the units. The many tank variations in the IG, some of the MC in Tyranids, certain Ork units. Weve all got them, and its fun to see what people come up with.
As far as a WYSIWYG stand point, its really pretty hard to mess that up IMO.

As much as I love converting, I like a little consistency. Since there seems to be no option that includes size guidelines for conversions, then I'd rather print only the models available. If the sculpting crew didn't get it done in time, then it goes on the shelf to be completed for the next go round.

Then again, I'd prefer a Privateer Press release style; a few new models for half the armies. However, that doesn't seem too likely.

I would point out th in the Nids are very difficult to convert for. Tanks and soldiers are pretty easy, but each nid is technicly a different species! Thats why I don't play nids.

I vote to go with the current methods. Sure its frustatrating to have units that don't have available models, esp. when not everyone has skill with green stuff thats needed in creating decent quality figures, but you only have to look at the interest thats been created in the various conversions that are on this site & others to help justify it; I just hope they inspire people to have a go themselves . . .

Having said that, it depends on the attitude of the GW & other tournament organisers whether they enforce WYSIWYG. Mycetic spores will be a very popular choice, but if use of toys like the plasma hatcher gets banned because they are not GW product, then it will cause a lot of resentment of this policy.

As a UK resident living in the Midlands, I have attended the 40K tournaments at GW head quarters, Lenton for the last couple of years (supporting friends who were taking part) and I'm really tempted to use my favourite nids with the new 'dex, but the prospect of having models banned because they are not WYSIWYG really puts me off.

Of course its easy to jump onto the GW conspiracy band wagon & say the policy is a means of creating extra sales (esp. with most of the new nid MC's being a combination of fex & trigon), but I choose not to believe its true
I really hope that the new stuff is released within a reasonable timescale, say 12 months max., but unfortunately, that I don't believe

I also voted to keep doing what they are doing. I really dont mind missing models for some options in the lists. If the models are released in the future, then great. If not, then convert some.

I would think it is very smart from a bussiness point of view. You can introduce new units for the armies and test how popular they are. If the units arent so popular, then no reason to stock a product that will not sell (these models can also be made by Forgeworld).

But i agree on, at least letting gamers/collectors know the base size for the diffrent units.

Just my 2 cent

None of the voting options are representative of my opinion... and it's a loaded question if ever I saw one - you either don't care about this, or you want GW to work themselves to the bone to get everything done before release/within 6 months.

I have a far more realistic view:

Every Codex entry gets a miniature within 24 months of a Codex's release, and that GW makes sure we know that this is happening. Back in 3rd there was a sort of unspoken promise that every unit would get a model - GW are a miniatures company after all - but that promise has now been broken, replaced with 'waves' that aren't really 'waves' and loads of gaps in the product line.

Any Codex filled with missing models feels incomplete to me, and, worse, the cynic in me knows that a lot of these model-less units are simply going to be cut come the next Codex cycle, leaving people with loads of useless converted miniatures. Sure, the really popular ones will get a kit (gotta keep people buying!!!), but all the others will either continue to languish without a kit or just be cut completely.

i'm a converter - not a painter or a gamer or a fluffer (lolz) - though i dabble in all of them - i'm a converter. give me a troll and a tooth pick and i'll macguyver that sucker into a tank in an hour. the system of model lag works for me. in saying that on a purely practical level maybe pp have the best answer - make the armies unit based with a sta card a la wm and hordes - infinite growth with a concentration on rule development, synergie and expansion.

If I were running GW I wouldn't release rules and codex's spread out individually over a few years. I would release a new set of rules with full codex support all at once. Then feature the release of miniatures similiar to how they do now. I feel that this would reduce codex creep as well as allow people with full armies of older miniatures to keep up to snuff with current models.
An example would be necron and DE players. I know plenty of people who have full necron armies but don't play them because they're rules are so nerfed.
I don't think a codex and the models for the codex need to be released together.
That's my two cents.

There needs to be some schedule for releasing the models. That wasn't an option, so i chose to delay until the models are ready. Otherwise they may never come out. How many units/options in the Demon codex still have no model?

Converting is my primary interest in this hobby, so I think it is a great idea to give hobbyists the freedom to build their own versions of models that havn't been produced. When I first discovered 40k, there were a very limited number of models available for the game, conversion was almost mandatory in the games infancy and it was encouraged and nurtured by GW. I would like to see a more open rule set that allows for players to create their own models and generate their own rules for useing them, which was a component of the original game. I would also like to see GW bring back large scale bits ordering, like it did back in 2005-2007. I could build rough riders (for example) far better if I could order, say, horses, mounted legs, and spear arms and then combine them with cadian plastic parts. Since I can't do that, I will wind up purchaseing comparable bits from any one of a dozen outside companies that provide 28mm model parts compatable with plastic cadiens. In this economy, I think GW is missing out on a market.

No. GW a while ago said they would produce a model for everything, so far they havent lived up to that.
If you look at the skaven book for an example, there are many problems without a clear example of a model. (warlords litter for one, abomination for another)
It may be fun to convert, but having no referance causes problems. so unless GW gets better at making rules i'd (haaa haAAAA!!!! better at rules.... i slay me) say only release a codex/armybook if GW plans to make the models within 3 months of the books release.
Nothing ever stops people who want to convert even if there is a model out their anyway.

yakface wrote:Well, this poll assumes that Games Workshop generally releases miniatures when it is able to finish them (within the time frame of their ability to market the product, of course), so if you were demanding that your sculptors all work on getting every model out within 6 months of the release of the book those man hours are not being spent getting the next release ready which means you're essentially going with a variation of 'Option B' (wait until all the models are done until releasing the book), its just that you've set a different hard line 'out' point.

The difference is that some models cannot be released before a codex is released (before it has rules) eg. the Psyker squad from the IG codex. (Remember that GW has no access to an internationally published monthly publication or a world wide digital distribution method popular amongst its customer demographic through which to publish rules. ) Therefore models must be 'stockpiled' to coincide with the release of a codex or produced at a later date (although I could not say with any certainty what criteria they follow for these later releases.) The difference is that GW would declare a specified period in which one could expect models to be released (six months was merely an example). Bottom line is there shouldn't be a lottery as to whether a codex entry does or does not get a model release.

I don't know why this has become an issue all of a sudden. (Except of course for the recent 'nid and skaven books). I remember back when I began playing in the late 90s we didn't even have a production model for the land raider (Then they released a plastic one about 2000ish). They've always written more rules than models and players have always gotten creative with it. I guess they've just been releasing more minis recently, so people have forgotten.

BTW: Get off my lawn!

I want George Spigott's option: All models in the book, but time (6 months to a year) in which
to release those models after the book is released.

Yes, i like what they are doing now, and i like the room it leaves for converting.

I wasn't sure... I said I'd rather they didn't release it until all the models were available. I was assuming the army list was balanced taking -all- troop selection possibilities into account, not just a limited number of them. But...maybe GW takes that into account, and the books -are- balanced, at the time they are released? Uhm...so confused...

--- Frankie

nintendoeats wrote:It seems like if we ever want to get stuff again than this is how it will have to be. On the other hand. I would NOT release an ork codex with a WAAAGH!!! banner...and then re-release the Nob box without one...

bastards

If any non-included feature is easily converted, it's a WAAAGH! banner.

I would. It means more conversions for me

i would update the codex in a logical order
AND I WOULD NOT HAVE CODEX'S THAT ARE 10 YEARS OLD ON THE SHELF

Releasing the codex early allows you to proxy and play test before actually buying the models you need / want.

After all, the rules are more important than the models. You can make or sub what you need until they release a model.

I think the holding off of releasing minatures is a good idea done for 2 reasons
1)The afore-mentioned modeling time because theese things arn't instant and take time to create and manufacture
2)It means they can make the joy ast longer and keep us updated with almost monthy releases

I would also go with releasing the books without having all the models. The one thing that does piss me off about this is GW's lack of any kind of forewarning on their release schedule. I would like to know if I should bother spending a whole bunch of time converting something if the model is just going to be coming out soon.

Get me a Codex, NOW!

I rather like HBMC's option, of not releasing everything, but specifying clearly which units you intend to release kits for.
Also, selling conversion kits like FW does would make a lot more sense. Don't sell me a basilisk box, a chimera box, a hellhound box, and 5 other variants. Sell me a chimera hull and a 5$-10$ add on sprue for the variants and other vehicles.
Finally, a description of each unit's general size and base size requirements in every bloody entry. I don't mind converting things if I know how bloody big they need to be, but a tyranofex? 60mm base? Oval flight base like the trygon? Same with battlewagons, killa kans and the like (though to be fair, those come with bases.) I think guidelines on the general sizes of models and the bases they need to be on would make a lot more sense than "use what comes in the (nonexistant) kit!"

Just publish the Codex, we need figures too, so get those done and get them out. This release date stuff is for the birds.

I have to be honest here, but alot of people slate GW for thier trickle releases.
I see it as a great idea though.
It keeps people interested and wanting to buy more.
If you drop out a whole range in 1 go people will take a quick look, start playing the army then get bored and move on.

The trickle release gives people something to look forward to.



I would prefer it though if GW handed out a roster on release dates, or atleast let us know what they were up to.
Soo many people wanted tons of £££ on metal kanz and dreadz, only to find better / plastic / cheaper ones on the way.

If they are going to release books without all the units that make the army balanced they should reinstitute bitz ordering so people can at least make something close within the current range.

I don't see what the problem is here. There are plenty of miniature war games that have rules and no models to support it what so ever. It's a hobby game for modelers after all. There is suppose to be a creative element. You don't need to be a master sculptor to make WYSIWYG models. Honestly it doesn't take much to order some bits online to convert up some models(there are plenty of third party companies for bits), and you could always grab whole models from third party model companies.

Sometimes people put too much emphasis on the GW run tournaments. Stop playing in GW run events if you don't like their WYSIWYG rules. There are different games for different play styles. If you want something that rigid then Warmachine caters to that crowd IMO. If anything the statement should be that GW shouldn't be so restrictive in it's WYSIWYG policy at it's tournaments if it doesn't fully support all it's current rules with models, and not should they hold back on rules and options until the models are ready. I usually only participate in non-GW run tourneys and play at my FLGS so be aware that they flavors my opinion.

I like that they have been giving us so many options lately in the codex releases. I'd be sad if they were pressured to hold stuff back just because they can't produce the models yet for what ever reason. That means those options would be shelved for years before we could ever use them in a regulation game or would force them to update the codex more often. I'm not wild about the second option either. It takes so long to learn, collect and paint an army as is that I think the current stride for the popular armies is good enough. My army would constantly be in a state of flux. They just need to release all the army books in a uniformed manner IMO.

Wehrkind wrote:Finally, a description of each unit's general size and base size requirements in every bloody entry. I don't mind converting things if I know how bloody big they need to be, but a tyranofex? 60mm base? Oval flight base like the trygon? Same with battlewagons, killa kans and the like (though to be fair, those come with bases.) I think guidelines on the general sizes of models and the bases they need to be on would make a lot more sense than "use what comes in the (nonexistant) kit!"

This is a very valid statement though. Not specifying base size or vehicle dimensions only promotes modeling exploits either inadvertently or maliciously (especially in the true LOS system they have now). The old kan kits did come with bases. I can confirm that, since I built tons of those. Though I bought several of the old metal deff dread kits and I don't recall any of them coming with a base, which was annoying. I don't know if it was just my kits or they all came that way. Besides the fact that I needed to now go out and buy additional plastic for bases, there was no indication anywhere as to what the regulation base size was for a deff dread. With a dread it's a bit more obvious than a tyranofex, but it was still annoying.

Definitely release without all the models, it would return a certain creative aspect to the hobby which I feel has certainly declined since I began the hobby.