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Necrons is an interesting point.
They had the power to overcome the galaxy, but had to retreat finally to stasis.
There could be enough left to start another harvest in a really big scale.

But, only 2 C'tan are awakened and we know that if the creature on Mars is a C'tan, then he got beaten and imprisoned
and isn't that strong so to say.
Leaves us with an unknown number of tomb-worlds and necrons.
But they are also not all fully operational.

And there is the important issue of the C'tan and their necrons opposing every life form.
If those ancients get their plan to work and shut off the warp, this could allow them to massacre whole sectors but still
this won't go without retaliation. The old ones may have died out, theyre creations have not.
So the young races and the eldar and orks will fight.
The nids you mean?
C'tan can be seen as predators, and thus won't share their prey.
The hive-mind may have evaded conflicts ( but codex nids shows this could be impossible in the long run ) yet, it can't do this
forever and still consume all biomatter.
The fight of the undead space robots vs aliens of 40k is inevitable.
IMO both will suffer but the necrons could hit the nids hard enough to drive them away.

squats

hcordes wrote:squats

QFT

Seriously though, GW must have felt threatened by them, why else would they use their modding powers to remove them from the history of 40K?

Dastardly Dave wrote:

hcordes wrote:squats

QFT

Seriously though, GW must have felt threatened by them, why else would they use their modding powers to remove them from the history of 40K?

they weren't making enough money, like Chaos Dwarfs where did those guys go???

maybe they should make a comeback in the Tau Army list lol

C'tan can be seen as predators, and thus won't share their prey.
The hive-mind may have evaded conflicts ( but codex nids shows this could be impossible in the long run ) yet, it can't do this
forever and still consume all biomatter.
The fight of the undead space robots vs aliens of 40k is inevitable.
IMO both will suffer but the necrons could hit the nids hard enough to drive them away.

Ill have to disagree as even in the Necron Codex the C'tans fight each other to be more correct they eat each other. So the universe wont be fighting 2 C'tans it'll be one with some robots behind him. As to the the quote above i think the nids are way more powerful in ever respect true the hive mind wants bio-matter so may avoid them at first (but by no means are they scared to fight them if anything its the other way around) but if the necrons attack the nids, they will counter attack accordingly (its like you jumping on a ant hill). I think the Necrons are more worried about themselves they are big babies they run away when they are losing/taking heavy loses as they cant reproduce (basically a dead race imo). And the nids to my knowledge just dont run away, they exhaust themselves out. I dont think the nids are going anywhere they are here to eat and everyone is on the menu no way the crons will make them go away. And your assuming all necrons like each other (will fight together) this may not be the case and dont they eat souls do nids have souls? So how would this fight benefit the necrons besides losing irreplaceable soldiers.

The most powerful atm has to be the IoM. Just to flexible we bend but dont break. And considering the infighting amongst mankind its amazing they are still around. The orks wont be a big threat inless a warboss can unite all the orks which is unlikely but even then it'll be a massive mob of green idiots and dangerous none the less but can be stopped as once the warlord is gone they usually start fighting each other and doing whatever. And everyone else suffers from the infighting which is what mainly stops them from pwning all life its just that the IoM come together when it gets rough (Even the SW's will come to the aid of the Inquisition and like wise) its just that IoM know that they are stronger together so they make the most of it (And if they dont stick together they'll probably die). And true idk if nids fight amongst themselves but all the hives im sure arent looking out for each other. So over all IoM all day.

But, only 2 C'tan are awakened and we know that if the creature on Mars is a C'tan, then he got beaten and imprisoned
and isn't that strong so to say.

The being presumed to be on Mars, is the Void Dragon, who is also the presumably STRONGEST of the C'tan. If you want the real down low on the fluff, you need to read the new Mechanium Book. Suffice to say, it wasn't easy at all.

l have to disagree as even in the Necron Codex the C'tans fight each other to be more correct they eat each other. So the universe wont be fighting 2 C'tans it'll be one with some robots behind him. As to the the quote above i think the nids are way more powerful in ever respect true the hive mind wants bio-matter so may avoid them at first (but by no means are they scared to fight them if anything its the other way around) but if the necrons attack the nids, they will counter attack accordingly (its like you jumping on a ant hill). I think the Necrons are more worried about themselves they are big babies they run away when they are losing/taking heavy loses as they cant reproduce (basically a dead race imo). And the nids to my knowledge just dont run away, they exhaust themselves out. I dont think the nids are going anywhere they are here to eat and everyone is on the menu no way the crons will make them go away. And your assuming all necrons like each other (will fight together) this may not be the case and dont they eat souls do nids have souls? So how would this fight benefit the necrons besides losing irreplaceable soldiers.

I think you are way off base. You don't seem to be well versed in the Necron fluff. Did you know that the Nightbringer Is what caused the emotion of fear to exisit in all lifeforms, besides the Orks? The C'tan have also been known to work together, for a common goal. Plus, where do you get even a HINT that the Necrons are afraid to fight anyone? They are soulless robots, that will just cease to exisist in the battlefield if things go to awry. In a battle of Endurance, you seem to think that the Tyranids will win because they have numbers, but they still need Bio-Mass which the Necrons could deny to them.

On the Tyranids adapting, they can do this to an extent, but there is nothing that flesh can do to stop it being stripped of it's ATOMS by the Gauss weapons

Now, don't get my wrong, The Tyranids are the second biggest threat in the galaxy IMO, but the Necrons have existed as long as they did, for a reason.

FoeHammer wrote:

true the hive mind wants bio-matter so may avoid them at first (but by no means are they scared to fight them if anything its the other way around) but if the necrons attack the nids, they will counter attack accordingly (its like you jumping on a ant hill). I think the Necrons are more worried about themselves they are big babies they run away when they are losing/taking heavy loses as they cant reproduce (basically a dead race imo). And the nids to my knowledge just dont run away, they exhaust themselves out. I dont think the nids are going anywhere they are here to eat and everyone is on the menu no way the crons will make them go away. And your assuming all necrons like each other (will fight together) this may not be the case and dont they eat souls do nids have souls? So how would this fight benefit the necrons besides losing irreplaceable soldiers.

A bit longwinded...

But I have to disagree with your disagreement

C'tan arent scared of anything, they implanted the fear of death into the races of this galaxy....
Grim reaper, or his 40k name, nightbringer.

But yes, the Ctan would stomp the nids like I could an ant-hill.
For the simple reason they are able to erase biomatter and nids depend on reabsorbing after battle.
So losses would count. And the nids can't win when those ancient menace brings forth their real weapons.
We may have seen only a glimpse of the C'tans power yet.
The necrons like nobody, they follow orders. Thus, if only 2 C'tan are awake, one of them could decide to wait for the winner.
Since C'tan can draw from different sources ( suns, creatures life ) and don't depend on souls like demons,
Nids would provide some sort of food.
Plus these Nids have psykers and a presence in the warp. C'tan hate the warp. Go figure.

Sasori wrote

I think you are way off base. You don't seem to be well versed in the Necron fluff. Did you know that the Nightbringer Is what caused the emotion of fear to exisit in all lifeforms, besides the Orks? The C'tan have also been known to work together, for a common goal. Plus, where do you get even a HINT that the Necrons are afraid to fight anyone? They are soulless robots, that will just cease to exisist in the battlefield if things go to awry. In a battle of Endurance, you seem to think that the Tyranids will win because they have numbers, but they still need Bio-Mass which the Necrons could deny to them.

@ Sasori, No i think your way off base from my knowledge the C'tan dont work together only when they fought the Old Ones did they do this. But since the C'tans were tricked into eating other C'tans by the Deceiver its all been down hill, even says in the Necron Fluff and codex they are only out for themselves and they have a appetite for each other (Even says they think each other tastes good) i also believe when they eat another C'tan they gain its power. So why would they work together when the stronger will just eat the weaker? Also to gauss weaponry thats a interesting point of breaking down the atoms but then again they can still just bring a massive amount of nids and feed on the planet they are fighting on. As to the necrons being scared i stand by that i wasnt meaning C'tan's which are not Necrons they are their living gods. But the Necrons show fear they fear the C'tans mainly so i believe that necrons can show fear and will (hell they can even run away) now is this fear for ones self preservation or a command given to maintain the necron race idk. The only C'tan i can see going at it with the Nids is the NightBringer or the other one the guy that went crazy (forget his name). As to why the necrons are still alive its to serve the C'tan thats it they are pawns they were allowed to live so they could protect the slumbering C'tans mainly from the Enslavers (Which finally killed off the old ones not the C'tans). You are giving necrons way to much power imo. This is just the vanguard to the nids isnt that what the fluff said? I dont think the necrons have enough tin cans (Necrons) to stop the waves upon waves the nids have. Now the C'tans are a different story and they seem to even be able to be killed (there once were 100's if not 1000's of C'tans) so it may take along time but i believe the nids can still do it.

But I have to disagree with your disagreement

C'tan arent scared of anything, they implanted the fear of death into the races of this galaxy....
Grim reaper, or his 40k name, nightbringer.

But yes, the Ctan would stomp the nids like I could an ant-hill.
For the simple reason they are able to erase biomatter and nids depend on reabsorbing after battle.
So losses would count. And the nids can't win when those ancient menace brings forth their real weapons.
We may have seen only a glimpse of the C'tans power yet.
The necrons like nobody, they follow orders. Thus, if only 2 C'tan are awake, one of them could decide to wait for the winner.
Since C'tan can draw from different sources ( suns, creatures life ) and don't depend on souls like demons,
Nids would provide some sort of food.
Plus these Nids have psykers and a presence in the warp. C'tan hate the warp. Go figure.

As i said before i wasnt meaning C'tans being scared i dont believe thats the case i meant the Necrons which arent C'tans. But I think your giving the C'tans to much credit and to much power. If they were so powerful why havent they destroyed terra, more then enough to eat there? Im saying C'tans can be killed they kill each other so it is possible may take 5 fleets but can be done. As to the nids this is the tip of the spear of them who knows how many are coming? As to the C'tan's waiting i believe the Deceiver would do something like that which is possible but if they are able to kill the Nightbringer who is by the far the most powerful (i believe hes even the oldest) is killed i doubt the deceiver would be able to kill the rest of the nids. I just dont see the nids being beat and who says they cant eat the Necrons it is living metal it may have bio-matter in it the nids may be able to eat it and become even stronger. Its all theory but is possible.

My main argument is the Necrons dont have the numbers to defeat the Nids basically a death on both sides is costly but nids can make more of themselves and Necrons cant.

Sasori, No i think your way off base from my knowledge the C'tan dont work together only when they fought the Old Ones did they do this. But since the C'tans were tricked into eating other C'tans by the Deceiver its all been down hill, even says in the Necron Fluff and codex they only are out for themselves and they have a appetite for each other (Even says they think each other tastes good) i also believe when they eat another C'tan they gain its power. So why would they work together when the stronger will just eat the weaker? Also to gauss weaponry thats a interesting point of breaking down the atoms but then again they can still just bring a massive amount of nids and feed on the planet they are fighting on. As to the necrons being scared i stand by that i wasnt meaning C'tan's which are not Necrons they are their living gods. But the Necrons show fear they fear the C'tans mainly so i believe that necrons can show fear and will (hell they can even run away) now is this fear for ones self preservation or a command given to maintain the necron race idk. The only C'tan i can see going at it with the Nids is the NightBringer or the other one the guy that went crazy (forget his name). As to why the necrons are still alive its to serve the C'tan thats it they are pawns they were allowed to live so they could protect the slumbering C'tans mainly from the Enslavers (Which finally killed off the old ones not the C'tans). You are giving necrons way to much power imo. This is just the vanguard to the nids isnt that what the fluff said? I dont think the necrons have enough tin cans (Necrons) to stop the waves upon waves the nids have. Now the C'tans are a different story and they seem to even be able to be killed (there once were 100's if not 1000's of C'tans) so it may take along time but i believe the nids can still do it.

Alright, I'm going to try to break this down.
The C'tan united against the old ones, because they were a common threat. Why wouldn't they do the same to the Tyranids?
The Necrons don't know "fear" like you keep saying. They just follow orders. They are Immortal soulless robots, that can self repair. What is there to fear? Self preservation? They will just teleport out. If you read the Necron codex, you would know this.

Your main argument is "The Tyranids have numbers" which is true. It's a double edged sword as well. They may have numbers, that that means they have more mouths to feed, more to reproduce, which means they need much much more Biomass, in the swarms your talking about. The Tyranids CANNOT win a war of attrition in the situation we are talking about. The Necrons don't need food, they don't need water, they don't need rest. The Tyranids will need all of these Eventually. The Necrons will deny them the Bio-mass, making even a tyranid victory, a Pyrrhic one. It will come down to the Tyranids taking real loses while the Necrons are just coming back for more.

Yes, the C'tan can be killed. So can anything in the 40k universe. I haven't seen anything that the Tyranids can do, to kill one though. The C'tan are masters of the material universe, they have no peers when it comes to this.

I'm not giving the Necrons to much power, you can blame GW on that.

The Necrons don't even have to kill the Tyranids. They will do it to themselves if they run out of Biomass. The Necrons have the means to wage a war of attrition that nothing in the 40k universe can stand up to, including the Tyranids.

Alright, I'm going to try to break this down.
The C'tan united against the old ones, because they were a common threat. Why wouldn't they do the same to the Tyranids?
The Necrons don't know "fear" like you keep saying. They just follow orders. They are Immortal soulless robots, that can self repair. What is there to fear? Self preservation? They will just teleport out. If you read the Necron codex, you would know this.

Your main argument is "The Tyranids have numbers" which is true. It's a double edged sword as well. They may have numbers, that that means they have more mouths to feed, more to reproduce, which means they need much much more Biomass, in the swarms your talking about. The Tyranids CANNOT win a war of attrition in the situation we are talking about. The Necrons don't need food, they don't need water, they don't need rest. The Tyranids will need all of these Eventually. The Necrons will deny them the Bio-mass, making even a tyranid victory, a Pyrrhic one. It will come down to the Tyranids taking real loses while the Necrons are just coming back for more.

Yes, the C'tan can be killed. So can anything in the 40k universe. I haven't seen anything that the Tyranids can do, to kill one though. The C'tan are masters of the material universe, they have no peers when it comes to this.

I'm not giving the Necrons to much power, you can blame GW on that.

The Necrons don't even have to kill the Tyranids. They will do it to themselves if they run out of Biomass. The Necrons have the means to wage a war of attrition that nothing in the 40k universe can stand up to, including the Tyranids.

Well first off against the old ones the C'tans never killed each other before. After they did kill each other and it seems when they eat each other (they like eating each other as well) they start to lose their minds so they aren't in their right minds. So no i dont believe they will ally with each other mainly cause out of the ones that are left one is enslaved, Ones completely insane, and the deceiver and night bringer arent exactly on best terms but wouldn't matter if they did ally with one another. And again Necrons cant always repair themselves they eventually arent able to repair themselves it says it. And in a war of attrition i have to disagree i believe the Necrons do hit and run attacks cause they know they will get swarmed. And Necrons do know fear they arent fearless (now this fear like i said may not be for self preservation but they know if they die thats it and in a way i think it is to keep serving the C'tans, or they may run away just cause the fight isnt worth it says it in their codex) so now you have robots that can and have ran before and they can be killed. They are a dieing race they cant make more, they are only able to lose men. How will they be able to win a war of attrition? Nids dont need to eat they recycle themselves i believe although genestealers do have some way of keeping alive but shouldn't be to hard as they are able to live for ages in hibernation. The only hope i see for the Necrons is for the nids to move on to another resourceful universe after destroying this one and in-effect killing the ctans no souls to eat the starve also the Nightbringer was on the edge of death before he awoke so this is possible. But if it was a fight to the finish i still think the nids will win they are extremely adaptable and who says they cant eat necrons it is a possibility. We dont know how many Necrons there are this maybe all thats left no one knows but we do know more nids are coming. And the reason the C'tans hate the warp is cause of psychic power which is deadly to them its in the fluff. And Nids (who have extremely potent psychic powers) are able to kill C'tans without the C'tans the necrons are useless and will be killed off.

Lexicanum

At the precipice of victory, the Enslavers emerged from the now-tumultuous Warp and forced the C'tan and their slaves back with their psychic powers, the weakness of the Star Gods. The Enslavers killed many of the C'tan, leaving the Necrons in disarray and without figureheads to lead them and forcing the C'tan away from the forefront. As the Enslaver plague expanded sections of the galaxy, the four remaining C'tan went into stasis to avoid the onslaught.

If the enslavers can do it the Nids can do it. Once the nids with their numbers figure out that psychic powers WTF PWN necrons they'll unleash hell on those tin cans. And the Nids are goal oriented and wont allow the C'tan to escape they wouldnt allow a threat of that power to rebuild.

So nids have the numbers and means to stop the necrons. So thats pretty much it. Also from the fluff the great all mighty Nightbringer was humbled he ran from the Enslavers so he does know some kind of fear. So if it came down to Nids and Crons i have to put my money on the nids.

So instead of trying to tell me to read the fluff maybe you should take a closer look at it.

FoeHammer wrote:

Alright, I'm going to try to break this down.
The C'tan united against the old ones, because they were a common threat. Why wouldn't they do the same to the Tyranids?
The Necrons don't know "fear" like you keep saying. They just follow orders. They are Immortal soulless robots, that can self repair. What is there to fear? Self preservation? They will just teleport out. If you read the Necron codex, you would know this.

Your main argument is "The Tyranids have numbers" which is true. It's a double edged sword as well. They may have numbers, that that means they have more mouths to feed, more to reproduce, which means they need much much more Biomass, in the swarms your talking about. The Tyranids CANNOT win a war of attrition in the situation we are talking about. The Necrons don't need food, they don't need water, they don't need rest. The Tyranids will need all of these Eventually. The Necrons will deny them the Bio-mass, making even a tyranid victory, a Pyrrhic one. It will come down to the Tyranids taking real loses while the Necrons are just coming back for more.

Yes, the C'tan can be killed. So can anything in the 40k universe. I haven't seen anything that the Tyranids can do, to kill one though. The C'tan are masters of the material universe, they have no peers when it comes to this.

I'm not giving the Necrons to much power, you can blame GW on that.

The Necrons don't even have to kill the Tyranids. They will do it to themselves if they run out of Biomass. The Necrons have the means to wage a war of attrition that nothing in the 40k universe can stand up to, including the Tyranids.

Well first off against the old ones the C'tans never killed each other before. After they did kill each other and it seems when they eat each other (they like eating each other as well) they start to lose their minds so they aren't in their right minds. So no i dont believe they will ally with each other mainly cause out of the ones that are left one is enslaved, Ones completely insane, and the deceiver and night bringer arent exactly on best terms but wouldn't matter if they did ally with one another. And again Necrons cant always repair themselves they eventually arent able to repair themselves it says it. And in a war of attrition i have to disagree i believe the Necrons do hit and run attacks cause they know they will get swarmed. And Necrons do know fear they arent fearless (now this fear like i said may not be for self preservation but they know if they die thats it and in a way i think it is to keep serving the C'tans, or they may run away just cause the fight isnt worth it says it in their codex) so now you have robots that can and have ran before and they can be killed. They are a dieing race they cant make more, they are only able to lose men. How will they be able to win a war of attrition? Nids dont need to eat they recycle themselves i believe although genestealers do have some way of keeping alive but shouldn't be to hard as they are able to live for ages in hibernation. The only hope i see for the Necrons is for the nids to move on to another resourceful universe after destroying this one and in-effect killing the ctans no souls to eat the starve also the Nightbringer was on the edge of death before he awoke so this is possible. But if it was a fight to the finish i still think the nids will win they are extremely adaptable and who says they cant eat necrons it is a possibility. We dont know how many Necrons there are this maybe all thats left no one knows but we do know more nids are coming. And the reason the C'tans hate the warp is cause of psychic power which is deadly to them its in the fluff. And Nids (who have extremely potent psychic powers) are able to kill C'tans without the C'tans the necrons are useless and will be killed off.

Lexicanum

At the precipice of victory, the Enslavers emerged from the now-tumultuous Warp and forced the C'tan and their slaves back with their psychic powers, the weakness of the Star Gods. The Enslavers killed many of the C'tan, leaving the Necrons in disarray and without figureheads to lead them and forcing the C'tan away from the forefront. As the Enslaver plague expanded sections of the galaxy, the four remaining C'tan went into stasis to avoid the onslaught.

If the enslavers can do it the Nids can do it. Once the nids with their numbers figure out that psychic powers WTF PWN necrons they'll unleash hell on those tin cans. And the Nids are goal oriented and wont allow the C'tan to escape they wouldnt allow a threat of that power to rebuild.

So nids have the numbers and means to stop the necrons. So thats pretty much it. Also from the fluff the great all mighty Nightbringer was humbled he ran from the Enslavers so he does know some kind of fear.

So instead of trying to tell me to read the fluff maybe you should take a closer look at it.

You are ignoring information, and only posting that which is convenient for you. You are even contradicting yourself, in your post.

Let's start with your fear argument, in which you said almost exactly what I said in my post about it. When did I say they were fearless? I didn't. I said they dont' know fear, like you kept saying they did in your previous post.

You really, honestly believe, that if things in the galaxy went down the hole, that the Outsider, Void Dragon, Night Bringer, and Deciver woulden't ally, even if it was for a bit? They don't have to like each other, but your delusional if you don't think they would, especially in the event of a full scale war for the galaxy.

You say they do "Hit and run because they're afraid they will get swarmed" Call me crazy, but I would call that "Tactics" Unless using superior technology to outmaneuver your opponents and whittle them down isn't. No, you're probably right, they're just scared robots.

Nids need biomass for everything. Unless your implying they generate new matter out of nothing. which is impossible even in the 40k universe. You cannot create the Bio weapons, or Keep a TOTALLY ORGANIC being, alive, without it feeding on something. Even if they are "Recycling" that still requires biomass. Case and point, the Tyranids will run out of it eventually, and the Necrons don't need it.

Your point on the Necrons dying is moot. Who knows how many times, it could be thousands, it takes for a necron warrior to be permanently destroyed. They've been around for over 60 million years. and fought the "War in heaven" which lasted forever. Necrons could die hundreds of thousands of times, and still come back for more.

The C'tan, will not starve, if they lost all life. They can still feed off the suns, that's how they earned their name in the first place.

You keep talking about the Pyhsic powers of the nids, can destory the C'tan. Give me some examples, where they have the magnitude of pysic power to destory one.


Your quote is contradictory to the Necron codex, in which I will give an exact quote from the DECEIVER

No, your language is inefficient. The plague was not a disease and it coulden't harm us but.. it was killing everything else

You say, if the enslavers can do it, the nids can? We are talking about apples and oranges. Can the Nids operate a Leman russ because a guardsman can? No.

Your are looking at it completely one sided. Yes, I agree the nids have numbers. But their greatest strength is their greatest weakness. They need biomass to survive. Here, I'll do a little table here for you, maybe it will help you comprehend.

Nids
-Need Organic life to survive

Necrons
-Do not need organic life to survive.


So yes, I am telling you to read the fluff, because your argument is revolving around the same flawed bits and pieces you have scraped together.

Unless you can come up with something besides "hur hur, Tyranids have MOAR NUMBERZ and can WTF PWN Necrons with thir super psychic powahs!" We are just going to keep going around in circles.

Its all there you are acting if they are unstoppable and in my first post i said they may not know it as we do they may do it to keep serving the C'tans. Second of all i picked what fluff to use i dont think so it says the Enslavers KILLED the CTANS KILLED THEM THAT MEANS ONE THING THEY KILLED THEM WITH PSYCHIC POWERS its in a WD (but even using what was in the necron codex the nids still can kill all life which the enslavers did). Your argument is all based off what if's what if they keep rebuilding themselves, What if the nids cant get anymore biomass etc... Im saying they will be able to kill the necrons through two ways numbers and Psychic powers. And no the C'tans wont work together the Deciver runs from all other C'tans its in the Codex. Your the one ignoring the facts ive answered all your questions. You said the enslavers and nids are apples and oranges when infact they arent that far off how do the Nids fight? They adapt they find a weakness and exploit it right? So when they realize that the C'tans can be killed by psychic powers they will amass Pshychers right? So in the end what happened to the C'tans will happen again and even by your quote (and fluff does contradict itself GW is great at it) the nids will be able to kill everything as the Enslavers did so in the end it ends up the same.

You keep talking about the Pyhsic powers of the nids, can destory the C'tan. Give me some examples, where they have the magnitude of pysic power to destory one.

No problem quote from the hive mind below

As a powerful psychic presence, anyone with psychic ability can feel it. Almost every attempt by a psyker to make contact with a Hive Mind, even by some of the most powerful, results in insanity or death, either because it would require an incredibly powerful psyker to withstand the Hive Mind's awesome psychic presence or because the nature of the Hive Mind is completely beyond the comprehension of human beings.

I think that is powerful enough. Now take it the ultramarine lib Tigrus can access it i think (but thats even unclear or if he can just see were its going as hes very intuned with the warp) but then again he is a talented individual.

The C'tan, will not starve, if they lost all life. They can still feed off the suns, that's how they earned their name in the first place.

Well according to the Necron codex on page 28 last two paragraph's he was running and a alien fleet couldnt kill him but did enough to him to almost kill him as he slumbered. Why he didnt just feed on more star's unknown? maybe the enslavers were chasing them before they slept? That makes no sense to me really why he didnt feed if he could so maybe he coudnt or maybe the effect of eating other C'tans is making him lose it idk but it can be done.

Your are looking at it completely one sided. Yes, I agree the nids have numbers. But their greatest strength is their greatest weakness. They need biomass to survive. Here, I'll do a little table here for you, maybe it will help you comprehend.

Nids
-Need Organic life to survive

Necrons
-Do not need organic life to survive.


So yes, I am telling you to read the fluff, because your argument is revolving around the same flawed bits and pieces you have scraped together.

Unless you can come up with something besides "hur hur, Tyranids have MOAR NUMBERZ and can WTF PWN Necrons with thir super psychic powahs!" We are just going to keep going around in circles.

LOL that made me laugh temper now but i have sources for all my facts did you ever think that maybe GW had more then one writer? And their biggest strength is numbers and starving the C'tans and a bonus of potent psychic powers to boot. It happened once even in the codex so it can happen again as to being one sided i have to disagree i just see the nids being stronger. They have the means to kill the C'tans its all there. Your the one arguing with What if's not me and yes the C'tans do need to feed so your weakness is the same as mine.

You are ignoring information, and only posting that which is convenient for you. You are even contradicting yourself, in your post.

were did i contradict myself?

The Fear argument seems to be the same on both sides i believe they mainly run over a withdraw being issued. I agree i thought you said they were fearless?

Your point on the Necrons dying is moot. Who knows how many times, it could be thousands, it takes for a necron warrior to be permanently destroyed. They've been around for over 60 million years. and fought the "War in heaven" which lasted forever. Necrons could die hundreds of thousands of times, and still come back for more.

The point is they can be killed (you made it seem they never died) and since no one really knows how much it takes this is hard to prove either way.

Nids need biomass for everything. Unless your implying they generate new matter out of nothing. which is impossible even in the 40k universe. You cannot create the Bio weapons, or Keep a TOTALLY ORGANIC being, alive, without it feeding on something. Even if they are "Recycling" that still requires biomass. Case and point, the Tyranids will run out of it eventually, and the Necrons don't need it.

On this i said they can still feed off planets which is true also they can recycle themselves if need be to create a more needed nid. They have alot to feed off in the universe still which will only make them stronger. To starve them out would be for me to say ill be able to starve the C'tan cause according to the codex they need living beings to live or they go and slumber. But if the lesser nids need food then they could eat corpses of the dead couldnt they so in all everything is being used.

I answered all your questions as i did in other posts i just made one large paragraph maybe it was hard for you to read idk.

ts all there you are acting if they are unstoppable and in my first post i said they may not know it as we do they may do it to keep serving the C'tans. Second of all i picked what fluff to use i dont think so it says the Enslavers KILLED the CTANS KILLED THEM THAT MEANS ONE THING THEY KILLED THEM WITH PSYCHIC POWERS its in a WD (but even using what was in the necron codex the nids still can kill all life which the enslavers did). Your argument is all based off what if's what if they keep rebuilding themselves, What if the nids cant get anymore biomass etc... Im saying they will be able to kill the necrons through two ways numbers and Psychic powers. And no the C'tans wont work together the Deciver runs from all other C'tans its in the Codex. Your the one ignoring the facts ive answered all your questions. You said the enslavers and nids are apples and oranges when infact they arent that far off how do the Nids fight? They adapt they find a weakness and exploit it right? So when they realize that the C'tans can be killed by psychic powers they will amass Pshychers right? So in the end what happened to the C'tans will happen again and even by your quote (and fluff does contradict itself GW is great at it) the nids will be able to kill everything as the Enslavers did so in the end it ends up the same.

How is your Argument not based on "What Ifs" This is all complete conjecture in the first place. There are to many unknowns for either side to make a real valid argument, along with the inconsiency of games workshop writing.

Your saying the C'tans won't work together. I'm saying they will. They have in the past, and they haven't in the past. If the Threat is large enough, like the old ones were, they will unite.The Deiciver doesn't "run". He just uses more subtle machinations.

The Nids and Enslavers are completely different, and not even closely related. How is the nids fighting style related to the enslavers at all? You never explained how they are at all smiler.

I'll have to agree with you, the worst case scenario for the Necrons, is they go back to sleep. However, unlike the Enslavers, the nids (IMO) could be harvested.

As a powerful psychic presence, anyone with psychic ability can feel it. Almost every attempt by a psyker to make contact with a Hive Mind, even by some of the most powerful, results in insanity or death, either because it would require an incredibly powerful psyker to withstand the Hive Mind's awesome psychic presence or because the nature of the Hive Mind is completely beyond the comprehension of human beings.

I think that is powerful enough. Now take it the ultramarine lib Tigrus can access it i think (but thats even unclear or if he can just see were its going as hes very intuned with the warp) but then again he is a talented individual

I understand all that, but I'm talking about the Hive mind manifesting it's power, in a way to destory the C'tan. And that quote is also talking about a Human Mind. The C'tan are completely diffrent. According to Fluff, I don't even think a C'tan could make contact with the Hive mind, in a psychic way.

Well according to the Necron codex on page 28 last two paragraph's he was running and a alien fleet couldnt kill him but did enough to him to almost kill him as he slumbered. Why he didnt just feed on more star's unknown? maybe the enslavers were chasing them before they slept? That makes no sense to me really why he didnt feed if he could so maybe he coudnt or maybe the effect of eating other C'tans is making him lose it idk but it can be done.

The fluff probably had the C'tan slumber, so that it would make sense for the rest of the races to not have encountered them, before they awoke in the star feeding fashion. I don't know, the fluff doesn't really make sense on this part. They fed of Stars before, but they were tasteless, so maybe they were accustomed to tastier meals.

C'tans do need to feed so your weakness is the same as mine.

We're comparing 4, to untold billions here. My weakness is not the same.

The point is they can be killed (you made it seem they never died) and since no one really knows how much it takes this is hard to prove either way.

Agreed. There is not enough information either way.

On this i said they can still feed off planets which is true also they can recycle themselves if need be to create a more needed nid. They have a lot to feed off in the universe still which will only make them stronger. To starve them out would be for me to say ill be able to starve the C'tan cause according to the codex they need living beings to live or they go and slumber.

Like I said earlier, it's feeding 4, versus feeding billions. and according the codex they can feed off of stars as well. Contradictory fluff. Also, a lot of those planets, the Tyranids are going to suffer heavy losses as well. In a final war in the Galaxy, the Tyranids are going to start paying hard for ground, if they have absorbed most of the biomass. Once their fuel supply starts getting smaller, or cut off, it's going to be an uphill battle for them.


In truth, neither of us are going to win this argument. There is contradictory fluff everywhere, and we are going to continue to go in circles.

In truth, neither of us are going to win this argument. There is contradictory fluff everywhere, and we are going to continue to go in circles.

Was about to say the same.

As to the enslavers and nids being the same im still unsure if the nids can be harvested as its souls the Necrons need right so nids have souls or are they like bio-machines i assumed the latter? And like the enslavers they will kill all other life.

We're comparing 4, to untold billions here. My weakness is not the same.

And as to your four that need to eat, they feed on Stars so i assume they need alot to feed them. It'll amount to alot i think i mean its a star and sometimes some how they cant feed on stars lol idk. But i mean even if it didnt taste like anything you wouldnt not eat it to save your life i mean we still drink water makes almost no sense was a cheap way for GW to put them to sleep it seems.

I understand all that, but I'm talking about the Hive mind manifesting it's power, in a way to destory the C'tan. And that quote is also talking about a Human Mind. The C'tan are completely diffrent. According to Fluff, I don't even think a C'tan could make contact with the Hive mind, in a psychic way.

And i was just saying the hive mind is or maybe strong enough to kill a C'tan if it was able to focus but fluff will never be written about this as it would be the end of one or the other.

So what we have learned from this argument is pretty much nothing but the thing about the nightbringer is interesting (why he slept) as we are now back at the beginning. But i enjoyed it none the less . Speaking of nids aliens is on AMC. Hope i didnt offend you to bad Sas alot of people are gonna have a full inbox on their emails in the morning .

Nah, you wern't offensive, it was a good Discussion.

I was reading the "Oh yeah" codex thread, in which the Tyranids AND the Necrons were mentioned as the "Oh Yeah?" codexs. Fairly humorous.

But yeah, 40k will go on. Nids will eat things, and Necrons will harvest things.

I updated the original post for people not sure what "kind" of power...

The answer...every kind...

The way I see it, the 'nids are the most powerful force active in the galaxy (despite their presence in the galaxy being rather limited). Why?

Well, there's an unknown, but absolutely insane number of them outside the galaxy, heading our way, AND they grow in numbers for every world they ravage.

One could argue that Necrons can regenerate indefinitely, and be more suited to an attrition war, but... Necrons want souls. Very few Nids have souls (or at least in a sense that C'tan gods could use), so Necrons would not go out of their way to stop them. They might actually go back to sleeping if their tomb worlds were being invade.

NEcrons don't gain anything from killing Tyranids. tyranids don't gain anything from killing NEcrons. Ergo, Nids move forward, NEcrons stay asleep, everybody wins.

Then there's the Daemons. Again, unknown, insane numbers of them lying around. BUT, unlike the 'nids, they can't all come into the galaxy at once, or even in equally proportionate waves. I believe the Tyranids have the potential to wipe out the human and eldar populations that feed the warp gods and daemons, effectively severing their connection to the material realm.

Orks are going to be a big problem, since they spawn from spores, don't feed the Warp gods, and can put up a stiff resistance to the nids when all else is gone. The thing is... I kinda think Orks need some sort of biomass to spawn as well. At least some carbon or oxygen to nourish the spores. Nids get bonus points here, because they can literally suck worlds dry of both these (and many more) elements.

Well, if we're merely gauging which faction has the most power, their motivation to fight each other isn't really a factor.

If we're talking about the most power in this universe, the Orks probably win if their race counts as one faction (I probably wouldn't count it as one; they don't see themselves as being one), and the Tyranids or Necrons probably win otherwise (just how many Necrons there are, and just how united the C'Tan are, isn't really known. They're hard to gauge, from that point). If we're talking about most power period, Chaos (along with other warp powers) is essentially omnipotent (and immortal) in their own dimension, and quite powerful in ours. That probably makes them the winners.

i think the its the Imps. No army (not counting nids) has ever survive when the full weight of the Imperium is upon them.

Tyranids, inquisition, guard, marines, chaos, eldar, necrons.

phantommaster wrote:Power you say, a single small Inquisitor can requisition ANYTHING in the Imperium if he has sufficient reason, so why not the entire Imperium (Billions if not trillions of people), including the Emperor, now thats a lot of power for a little guy.

You know, that number has always bothered me, because according to some fluff, earth alone is rumored to have quadrillions of people living in it, being the largest hive world in the galaxy, so I'd say the human population could be in the dozens of septillions, if not more. But my vote is still between Daemons and the good ol' Imperium. I mean, considering how thin the imperial armies are stretched, it seems like a near-impossibility that they could have survived this long, but they did. Of course, they aren't Crusade-Era all powerful anymore, but they seem to pull through incredibly well for what they're stuck in.


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Orkeosaurus wrote:Well, if we're merely gauging which faction has the most power, their motivation to fight each other isn't really a factor.

On the contrary, motivation is what makes a fighting force power. The Imperium may be doing as well as they have because their motivation is for survival of their soon-to-be dying race. The Eldar have been more effective as a result of their inevitable doom, the T'au are strong-willed because they are a tiny, tiny empire in this massive expanse of dangerous territory, the orks would be nothing without their motivation to kill every goddamned thing in the galaxy (including each other, which is why they could never be a viable option for most powerful).... I think you get my point.

I said motivation to fight each other, not motivation to fight at all. The distinction is small but vital.

Would you say that a (loyal) space marine cannot be more powerful than a (loyal) guardsman, because they would have no motivation to fight one another? Of course not. However, you would say that a space marine who was completely pacifistic, or incredibly cowardly, is weak.

As another example, the Imperium does not currently have the motivation to destroy the Tau empire; they are still much more powerful than them, and fully capable of doing so should the motivation arise.


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You could phrase the distinction as "the willingness to do what they need to do" and "the willingness to do x". If they have no need to do x, they're not weaker for having not done so; if they do need to do x and and don't/won't/can't, then they are.

Well, not having the patiance for once to read all of the previous posts, I'll just say what I think.

Necrons. I mean, tomb world wakes up on a chapter planet and chapter dies.

Chaos has NOT got limitless power, once it runs out of beleivers it ceases to have a continual stream of power, let alone an influence in the galaxy. Necrons'll wipe everyone out, then lock the eye of terror and throw away the key, so to speak. Tyranids turn matter into bio whatjamacallit, but necrons cannot be consumed by them. And if they've got any more of those world engines (see SM codex), we're all F@£%&d. I should probably cross that last word out, but w/e. Meh. Oh well, we'll (the SM's) all die with contempt for the necrons in that we're more awesome than them and we always will be. Especially on the space wolves part. They're doubly awesome. But so are fists.... etc etc.. the only ones who will die in shame are THE ULTRAMARINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Imperium. As much as it shames me.
I think they have the largest, most stable domain, the largest fleet, and the best weapons.

For how long? Ask yourself that.

Orkeosaurus wrote:I said motivation to fight each other, not motivation to fight at all. The distinction is small but vital.

Would you say that a (loyal) space marine cannot be more powerful than a (loyal) guardsman, because they would have no motivation to fight one another? Of course not. However, you would say that a space marine who was completely pacifistic, or incredibly cowardly, is weak.

As another example, the Imperium does not currently have the motivation to destroy the Tau empire; they are still much more powerful than them, and fully capable of doing so should the motivation arise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could phrase the distinction as "the willingness to do what they need to do" and "the willingness to do x". If they have no need to do x, they're not weaker for having not done so; if they do need to do x and and don't/won't/can't, then they are.

I was afraid of that. *facepalm* I revoke my statement.

Every body is reading this as "who represents the biggest threat to the imperium," and based on your semantics, you sort of judge all factions by this yardstick. Therefore, IOM wins. To me.

xGhost4000x wrote:


Who has the most military might
Who has the most manpower
Who has the most loyalty/stubbornness
etc....

Who has the most military might

Imperium of Man. IG to be more precise. Millions of lined up las cannons, lasguns, and artillery firing all at once.

Who has the most manpower

Imperium of Man. IG to be more precise. 100billion strong and growing each year.(I believe I read the quota is 10,000 minimum per regiment each year, with over 1,000 worlds and multiple regiments per world in many cases... yeah)

Who has the most loyalty/stubbornness

Imperium of Man. Who could've known some dead guy on a giant golden toilet could be so influential?

The Imperium also controls most of the galaxy. The Imperium has taken the most gak from the most people most of the time and come back stronger every time.

EDIT: Also I could be wrong, but as I recall the Crons went into stasis because they ran out of life to harvest. They aren't butt raping the galaxy as they did 60 million years ago because they aren't all waking up at the same time or in the same place. In a few instances though, one of which involves a world engine and the destrustion of a battle barge and instant death of 700 space marines, there were a ton kicking ass and cutting through everything in their path...

crazypsyko666 wrote:I was afraid of that. *facepalm* I revoke my statement.

Don't worry, I was a little vague. "Motivation" carrying different meanings, and all that.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Chaos has NOT got limitless power, once it runs out of beleivers it ceases to have a continual stream of power, let alone an influence in the galaxy.

It depends on where you look at their power. Slaanesh has always existed in the warp, despite having not been born for quite some time in the real universe. It's likely that the chaos gods will always continue to exist in the warp, even if they have since died in the real universe.

However since Slaanesh's birth had very real effects from our point of view, the "death" of the chaos gods should have very real effects as well, from our point of view. Their power in this universe would thus be cut off through their lack of believers, and they would appear to no longer exist. It's kind of hard to consider something that doesn't exist in the real world "the most powerful", so I don't think I'd count Chaos as the winner in this one.

IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:

Who has the most loyalty/stubbornness

Imperium of Man. Who could've known some dead guy on a giant golden toilet could be so influential?

The Imperium also controls most of the galaxy. The Imperium has taken the most gak from the most people most of the time and come back stronger every time.

I'd have to disagree. Eldar probably should've given up a long time ago, and the Orks are having so much fun peace isn't even a consideration. They're stubborn to the point where it's just not even considered anymore. Besides, plenty of IG/SM give up. How many Eldar give up to chaos anymore? Hm?