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I was in the Plaza Oxford Street branch of GW the other day to pick up a couple of models. Some little boy had a whole bunch of Tau stuff out on the floor. There was a battleforce, a couple of boxes of infantry, a tank, maybe some Piranhas -- a lot, in other words.

The boy looked about 11 and his mother was saying "Do you really think you need all of these straight away? Why not get one or two boxes and come back for more?" Something like that.

There's nothing wrong with ambition but a huge pile of kits can be very intimidating to a youngster, especially when he finds it is much harder work to assemble and paint them than for his parents to buy them for him.

That kid would have been better off just to get the battleforce, wreck it with his n00b skillz and either give up or come back and buy the rest of the models when he knew what to do with them.

KK there is actually a valid reason beside purchasing an large / full army.

When i first went to GW for my own army , of course i wanted to play with other players.
I dont think im the only one under impression that to buy a 2250pts ish army is the only way for me to be able to have a normal game with others.
However as the staff forgot to mention , i have to have my army painted as well...

Also want to include , perhaps most younger gamers doesnt have as much interest in the hobby aspect yet ,
perhaps they paint , but they generally wont spend much extra time other than to quickly assemble them , and gawk at the newbly bought army happily.

I think that young gamers are prone to extremes.

Some young gamers rush out and buy a ton of models because they get carried away and want to have an epic battle.

Some go to the opposite extreme and try to find the most competative army list online, and buy exactly those whether or not they understand how to play that list.

It's almost inevitable that a young wargamers first foray into GW will leave them with some models/purchases they regret, either because they turned out to not be as usefull as they thought, or because they butchered them when they assembled them or because they bought too much for an army they didn't end up enjoying.

squilverine wrote:For the most part coments made in the P&M forums are positive and where critique is offered it tends to be positive, however I have encountered and heard of cases where shop staff and other gamers have openly mocked someones painting skills. This at best is unhelpful and at worst can cause genuine upset and push someone away from the hobby.

I hate that. GW staffers in question need a good braying imo.

It's not just GW staffers.

It's any/all basement dwelling scrubtard who gets pleasure in flatout saying "Oh man those are TERRIBLE! Stop while you're ahead!" or something of that nature.

Really, that's the best you can contribute to someone's first painting thread?

This isn't 4chan. You don't get to "inb4lols" on a P&M thread.

Either don't post in the thread or try to post something
constructive.
Pointing out that the painting looks childish?
Then tell them they should try thinning their paints.
Think the colors are too bright/ridiculous?
Tell them to look for a spot color chart.

Should be able to internet punch those gits.

Oh I know, it happens on dakka more than it should also imo. It's just that a GW staffer should be someone who holds up the exact opposite.

Not just on Dakka. Should have seen some of Portent/Warseer's P&M threads back in the day.

I'm well aware off all that. It's the example of a gw staffer doing it which annoys me most.

LunaHound wrote:KK there is actually a valid reason beside purchasing an large / full army.

When i first went to GW for my own army , of course i wanted to play with other players.
I dont think im the only one under impression that to buy a 2250pts ish army is the only way for me to be able to have a normal game with others.
However as the staff forgot to mention , i have to have my army painted as well...

Also want to include , perhaps most younger gamers doesnt have as much interest in the hobby aspect yet ,
perhaps they paint , but they generally wont spend much extra time other than to quickly assemble them , and gawk at the newbly bought army happily.

Of course the staff's job is to sell as much stuff as they can.

No doubt they often fail to mention that a lot of wargamers will happily play 1,000 or even 500 point games, but require players to use painted models. (Let's not get into the painted vs unpainted argument though.)

I imagined that boy gluing together everything in a mad orgy of solvent abuse. He would probably have a lot of fun with it too, as long as he found some friends who would do the same.

Still, that isn't really what veteran players want people to thing wargaming is all about.

Nobody wants a small army. Nobody.

But there is definitely a LOT to enjoy when placing just a few models on the table. Heck, GW used to post "getting started" scenarios on their website for new players - take the contents of just one Tyranids box and split it into 2 teams. Nids vs Nids! You could do it with Orks, too - the Boyz love to rumble - and most importantly, you can learn the rules on the small scale before moving on.

Also vets LOVE to brag about how big their army is (me included) so N00Bz often will get a case of Chainsword Envy.

BIG ARMY - AWESOME! It's only too much when you a) can't afford it b) don't know the basic rules yet c) don't want to paint it anymore because you start crying when you look at all the unopened boxes d) you are buying WAY more than you can use (ie, your friends have small armies).

Ah, what a load. I take it all back. BUY MOAR!

Kilkrazy wrote:Still, that isn't really what veteran players want people to thing wargaming is all about.

Thats why im a newbie and there are veterans xD

But it is posible to get a high points list with a small number of models

Space Wolf 13 Model 1500 Point List

Here is a list I came up with for a 1500 point game. Like some others I just want to see what a low model count Space Wolf Army would do. For another 500 points I can add 2 Land Raiders.

Bjorn the Fell-Handed [Assault Cannon]
Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf
Logan’s Wolf Guard
-Arjac Rockfist, The Anvil of Fenris
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Frost Axe, Melta-Bombs]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Frost Axe Storm Shield, Melta Bombs]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Assault Cannon, Chain Fist]
Njal Stormcaller, Lord of Tempests [Runic Terminator Amour]
-Wolf Guard x4 [Paired Wolf Claws]
-Wolf Guard [Heavy Flamer, Chain Fist]

Roster Statistics
Model Count: 13
% Elite: 0.0
% Fast: 0.0
% Heavy: 0.0
% HQ: 54.3
% Troops: 45.7

Young or old, people NEW to the game should not rush out and buy a huge army. Start slow, figure out what works, what you like, how you want to play, and build with time. Huge purchases usually result in buyer's regret as well as just buying some overpriced, useless stuff in the midst of the good stuff.

I think a good buy for a starting gamer has always been two troops, an HQ, and a Codex. This will usually allow for a small game so you can get the feel for the army, then you can get bigger stuff like Elites, Heavy Support, FA, and more Troops.

The AOBR is one the best ways to start

Anpu42 wrote:The AOBR is one the best ways to start

Not always , because what if you actually realized later that you prefer something else thats not marine and orks?
Chances are , before realizing that , you have already dished out additional money into making one of the AOBR army playable
with other units / kits.

I've had AoBR for 5 months. I played the marines as salamanders at friendly games and just recently bought a assault set. I liked my AoBR purchase.

AoBR is the best starting option even if you end up not playing orks or SM, because for just 60 bucks it gives you 2 different 'armies' that are each only around 30 bucks from being legal each. The AoBR models also are virtually guaranteed to be tradable to someone else later for models you do want. I just wish AoBR had a few scenarios to help teach new players the game like Macragge did. (Why can't we have AoBR's model variety/quality, with BfM's tutorial rules/missions?)

Skarboy wrote:Young or old, people NEW to the game should not rush out and buy a huge army.

Unless they know what they want. Then go ahead and get it!
____

Anpu42 wrote:The AOBR is one the best ways to start

Unless, of course, one doesn't want to play SMs or Orks.

When I first started playing 40k, I had just gotten done playing the Dragon Ball Z CCG as well as the Yugioh CCG. Since both of those were the type where you're constantly having to buy new cards, I was constantly buying new things. Over the four years that I've been playing 40k, I've had five armies that were over 1,500 points. I guess it's taught me to do a few things. One of them being to make out an army list for each army that I want to make so I don't buy random things that I like. Another being proxying new units that I might want. That way I can see how they play before I make the commitment. It's a big deal now a days because I only make about $700 a month due to college.

When AoBR came out, I was playing Eldar and really looking for a change. They didn't seem to mesh well with my play style. My friend and I each bought a set, and I gave him the Space Marines for the Orks. I still haven't bought anything more for the army since I have only primed and started painting 7 boyz and one Nob. I have them all planned out, and the color schemes picked, but I just find myself lacking time to really do anything with them. Over the summer, I plan to work like crazy so I can have enough money to pay off a good chunk of my interest on my student loan, and I might dump $50 or so into a new bank account that I'll use for my 'modeling fund'. If I limit myself to money, it'll be harder for me to get even more stuff and then overwhelm myself with things to paint. Therefore making me dread painting any more than I already do.

I don't think so. In my local area, everyone since me has started with Marines (We all have some kind of Marine army, I never get to play anything else) and none of them build their armies/units properly, but still none of them went straight for >1500 points. Only one has over 2500 and he's been in the hobby nearly a year, so not too bad.

Hehe, this thread reminds me about a little kid who hangs out at my FLGS on Saturdays (just like all he other diehard 40k players in my town), who's so pumped about having a huge army he got a little excited with his predator: 6 lascannons (twinlinked on top, 2 on the sides and 2 stuck to the front).

Best way to start a newb out is a standard 2 basic troops and a HQ unit, or even just a standard box set. I really liked the old 24, 16, or 20 guy boxes, until GW started being cheap with thier 10 man sets at their new and improved inflated price.

If the Kid wants to try a large army, then you tell him to to start small and build one up, and explain the ins and outs, BEFORE the youngster goes and deep sixes mommy and daddy's well bought love.

I've seen three horror stories before I finally had enough, took the next one aside and told them how to do it right. I took the kid, showed him and a couple of other stand arounds how to model, got them a can of primer, showed them that, and ended up showing them how to do a good little dry brush job, and a little highlight to get started. We ended up starting a little on the side ad hoc game club, then it was like I passsed them on to some of the regulars who took them over and showed them rules and how to play.

Seriously, if you get that kid that wants to get all eager, you can either do two things, watch them go waste their time and money buying all sorts of gak, then finding out that they got about 4-5 different armeis and units, and sometimes even games units, then they have that look on thier face like they failed lunch.

OR

You can ruck up, help them out, get them on the right track,and give them a few pointers to make sure that they are on the right track.

They're going to do it, like it or not,and they are going to bother you, give you all sorts of hell and then you can see either an additional player, someone new that you can play, or you are going to get a brand new sprouted TFG.
they're yours like it or not.

You want to keep them and train them up right, or if all you just want to do is get a couple of quick sales out of a kid, then discourage them, go ahead, shove all that stuff in thier hand, send them out without so much as a kiss, and watch this poor noob try to put all that stuff together and end up crapping all over her/himself and throwing it into the closet with all of the rest of the money bought love.

Easier in the long run to keep the hobby going, then to just bust chops on some kids dime.

I'm young and relatively inexperienced and are planning a huge Ork army, but I know that the Orks suit me. (screaming WAAAGHH!!! in a crowded gaming store without anyone looking at you like a total nutcase is great!)
Plus, my army is still small, because I only get $10 (AU) pocket money a week, my force naturally grows slowly.

I think it's best to start small then slowly work your way up gaining experience along the way. It's what got me into the hobby and probably why I stuck with it. My first two armies were DA and Fallen Angels and I could intermix the units freely. So I was able to learn to armies at the same time. I was a really big fan of Cypher and still am today. I was lucky... People played 1k up to 1.5k back in hte day so I could build a small army and have lots of fun. I had DW & RW as well. If you dive right into a huge army (model count) and discover you don't like it that's a potential problem for sure. It's all about building one army you can enjoy and then taking it from there.

G

I know what you mean. If you take wysiwyg off all my models it would be somewhere around lets say 10000.
Im given up building for know. i need to paint.
Having 200 bucks a month and no girlfriend to spend it on is not good.
If i remember correctly i spent like 1000 dollers or more in the span of lets say 5 month.
edit more like 15000. maybe even 20000 or more.
But then again im to lazy to count.

Why does everyone assume kids between the ages of 9-13 are slowed when it comes to warhammer?

I started at 10 years old, and granted I went for the space marines, I sat down in my local wizards of the coast store (yes, they not only sold GW stuff, but had games nights back then) and read EVERY single armies book, until I came upon my preferred army based on looks, background, and tactics that where available. Granted I completely sucked at painting (and still do), my age and lack of stylish models often gave me the advantage of people not taking me serious.
Did I have a huge collection by year 2 of playing? Heck yes, buts thats because I wanted different options for different armies. Its a sound tactic, even if its not financially viable.

Even at my FLGS there are at least 2 kids under the age of 11 that are not only excellent players, but know their rules.

Dont underestimate the youngings... they dont have much to do besides school and read every army book front to back over and over and over.

Well, as a psych major in development...they find that young kids have the ork mentality that more is better....

considering what you just said, i think your a psych FAIL in development, everyone behaves and acts differently especially in the wargaming community, you cant take the norm of ALL kids as the standard for kids in the wargaming community,also the mention of the words 'YOUNG KIDS' invalidates your statement, warhammer is design for 12 years and up, it is standard in gw stores that you have to be 12 or older to take part in most gaming related things.

i am still new at this but when i first gave it a shot i went big! i figgured it culd not be that hard all i did was end up waisting mony b/c the models i did do looked like crap since i had no skills and the rest went unpainted that and i knew no backgrounds of the guys i tryed on (the blood aingels) i say start small learn and then go bigger