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Thanks for posting. Your comment about the comics was the main reason I had to finally stop buying them after 28 years of collecting. $3.99 for a comic book was just too much money for too little entertainment.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Ostrakon wrote:Nintendo and Apple sell their products at a much, MUCH higher profit margin, but I don't see them getting called out is evil.
Actually, I think they both suck. Apple in particular.
I refuse to buy things which are Defective By Design, or promoting Digital Restrictions Mechanisms.
My friend, I agree with you wholeheartedly. But I was just pointing out that there are plenty of well-loved companies who actually do display rising prices purely for the sake of having astronomical profits, and don't get called out on it.
People complaining about GW being evil or greedy are either misinformed, know nothing about how businesses work, or are just plain stupid. Jeez, put that energy toward complaining about practices that actually ARE evil, like corporate lobbying, oil companies, banks responsible for subprime lending, etc.
And a response (supposedly) from a former employee in the know on their FB page:
"Since my NDA ran out some years ago (I... See More’m a former Marketing Manager for GW) I’m going to voice my comments.
GW doesn’t care about existing gamers; they care about their IP and new gamers. They have, as a few have pointed out, an obligation to their stock holders and none to the “hobbyists” which they claim to cater to. GW breaks its customer base into New, Existing and Mature gamers. New gamers don’t know that one could buy 2-Landraiders or 3-Rhinos in a box for $20 in 1987, they only know that it’s cool – they’ll spend $500-$1,000 over the course of the next 12-months regardless of price. Existing gamers will feel the pinch of a price rise most but will continue to buy to finish their army or armies and grumble about the good old days when you could buy 20-Cadians in a box for $30 instead of 10 in a box for $22 – they’ll spend $200-$500 in the next 12-months. Mature gamers, in GW’s way of thinking, buy from Forge World and only purchase less than $200/year in plastic or metal – easily replaced by a New gamer.
The price rise is another way for them to build their portfolio for the sale of their IP; it makes it very attractive to stock holders and to potential buyers/investors. Perhaps some of you have noticed them closing some of their stores? What investor or buyer wants to buy a retail chain which, for the most part, is not profitable? This is where I think they’re headed – sale of the company IP. When I worked there we would never have made a 40K movie. We turned down Blizzard’s offer of a fantasy and science fiction computer game. Now look what’s become of their IP. Make of it what you will."
Ostrakon: One thing I've learned, a complaining gamer is a happy gamer. I'll P&M about the price rises and how bad WD sucks; but I'll tell ya, I'll be first in line for the issue with the Spearhead rules in it. Bruce Hornsby and The Range said it best. "That's just the way it is, some things'll never change." Besides, this is Dakka for criminy sake.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/05/13 05:24:07
Le Grognard wrote:I'm digging this video from Beasts of War:
And a response (supposedly) from a former employee in the know on their FB page:
Since my NDA ran out some years ago (I... See More’m a former Marketing Manager for GW) I’m going to voice my comments.
GW doesn’t care about existing gamers; they care about their IP and new gamers. They have, as a few have pointed out, an obligation to their stock holders and none to the “hobbyists” which they claim to cater to. GW breaks its customer base into New, Existing and Mature gamers. New gamers don’t know that one could buy 2-Landraiders or 3-Rhinos in a box for $20 in 1987, they only know that it’s cool – they’ll spend $500-$1,000 over the course of the next 12-months regardless of price. Existing gamers will feel the pinch of a price rise most but will continue to buy to finish their army or armies and grumble about the good old days when you could buy 20-Cadians in a box for $30 instead of 10 in a box for $22 – they’ll spend $200-$500 in the next 12-months. Mature gamers, in GW’s way of thinking, buy from Forge World and only purchase less than $200/year in plastic or metal – easily replaced by a New gamer.
The price rise is another way for them to build their portfolio for the sale of their IP; it makes it very attractive to stock holders and to potential buyers/investors. Perhaps some of you have noticed them closing some of their stores? What investor or buyer wants to buy a retail chain which, for the most part, is not profitable? This is where I think they’re headed – sale of the company IP. When I worked there we would never have made a 40K movie. We turned down Blizzard’s offer of a fantasy and science fiction computer game. Now look what’s become of their IP. Make of it what you will.
Ostrakon: One thing I've learned, a complaining gamer is a happy gamer. I'll P&M about the price rises and how bad WD sucks; but I'll tell ya, I'll be first in line for the issue with the Spearhead rules in it. Bruce Hornsby and The Range said it best. "That's just the way it is, some things'll never change." Besides, this is Dakka for crimeny sake.
You sir, are the man. lol
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I think Kirasu was making an attempt at humor while you are just blatantly being a troll.
Thanks for playing. Welcome to The List.
[edit]
Thanks for taking the time to confirm this ill news, Mike. From what I gather it seems to be similar to the european list mentioned in the last thread.
I love how stating facts makes one a troll. And also, how the definition of 'troll' has now degraded to 'person I disagree with'.
Kirasu wasn't being humorous, he's persistently displayed the "GW is a greedy corporation" sentiment in every thread on the subject I've read.
Actually it was an attempt at being humorous but way to go to personal attacks.
However, I don't care I'm just glad you've taken the time to read all my posts! Makes me oh so happy. Perhaps next time you're researching me you'll look at my gallery and see that I own over 35k Pts of gw stuff so price increases aren't a huge deal to me
Oh and I win BTW. A corporations main goal is to make profit at all expense and CEOs pay has sky rocketed across the board in general. Being greedy is their job description as a corporation. Its not meant in a mean way just its their job
Moving on!
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,
2010/05/13 05:23:37
Subject: Re:GW Price Increase on May 31st in the US.
@Grognard I agree with you completely. Dissent is the highest form of patriotism, eh?
But my point is that GW does enough things that are legitimately worthy of bitching about, like the marketing practices you just described, and their lack of giving a gak about their fanbase.
Raising the prices when their profit margin is pretty laughable is not something to complain about though.
@Kirasu
A corporations main goal is to make profit at all expense and CEOs pay has sky rocketed across the board in general.
If by "across the board" you mean "in certain industries that maintain a high profit margin but is so vital that people can't afford NOT to buy it, like phone and oil companies", then yeah. You win.
You have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think you have any real understanding of how businesses operate beyond whatever insight you think you've been able to glean from that limited, "angry populist" perspective.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/05/13 05:28:57
Le Grognard wrote:I'm digging this video from Beasts of War:
[hellfury edit] For some reason your vid link isnt working. Not sure if its a dakka issue or what. I'll see if I can fix it. Hmm must be formatting issue. [/hellfury edit]
And a response (supposedly) from a former employee in the know on their FB page:
"Since my NDA ran out some years ago (I... See More’m a former Marketing Manager for GW) I’m going to voice my comments.
GW doesn’t care about existing gamers; they care about their IP and new gamers. They have, as a few have pointed out, an obligation to their stock holders and none to the “hobbyists” which they claim to cater to. GW breaks its customer base into New, Existing and Mature gamers. New gamers don’t know that one could buy 2-Landraiders or 3-Rhinos in a box for $20 in 1987, they only know that it’s cool – they’ll spend $500-$1,000 over the course of the next 12-months regardless of price. Existing gamers will feel the pinch of a price rise most but will continue to buy to finish their army or armies and grumble about the good old days when you could buy 20-Cadians in a box for $30 instead of 10 in a box for $22 – they’ll spend $200-$500 in the next 12-months. Mature gamers, in GW’s way of thinking, buy from Forge World and only purchase less than $200/year in plastic or metal – easily replaced by a New gamer.
The price rise is another way for them to build their portfolio for the sale of their IP; it makes it very attractive to stock holders and to potential buyers/investors. Perhaps some of you have noticed them closing some of their stores? What investor or buyer wants to buy a retail chain which, for the most part, is not profitable? This is where I think they’re headed – sale of the company IP. When I worked there we would never have made a 40K movie. We turned down Blizzard’s offer of a fantasy and science fiction computer game. Now look what’s become of their IP. Make of it what you will."
I agree with the guy's observation on consolidation of their IP. It reflects the very aggressive legal stance in protecting their IP as of late. Nobody wants to buy the IP if its potentially unguarded.
Think what you want, not really my concern! I stated my hyperbole and you overreacted into personal attacks. It appears we have a difference in opinion
I'm cool with that
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,
Le Grognard wrote:I'm digging this video from Beasts of War:
[hellfury edit] For some reason your vid link isnt working. Not sure if its a dakka issue or what. I'll see if I can fix it. Hmm must be formatting issue. [/hellfury edit]
And a response (supposedly) from a former employee in the know on their FB page:
"Since my NDA ran out some years ago (I... See More’m a former Marketing Manager for GW) I’m going to voice my comments.
GW doesn’t care about existing gamers; they care about their IP and new gamers. They have, as a few have pointed out, an obligation to their stock holders and none to the “hobbyists” which they claim to cater to. GW breaks its customer base into New, Existing and Mature gamers. New gamers don’t know that one could buy 2-Landraiders or 3-Rhinos in a box for $20 in 1987, they only know that it’s cool – they’ll spend $500-$1,000 over the course of the next 12-months regardless of price. Existing gamers will feel the pinch of a price rise most but will continue to buy to finish their army or armies and grumble about the good old days when you could buy 20-Cadians in a box for $30 instead of 10 in a box for $22 – they’ll spend $200-$500 in the next 12-months. Mature gamers, in GW’s way of thinking, buy from Forge World and only purchase less than $200/year in plastic or metal – easily replaced by a New gamer.
The price rise is another way for them to build their portfolio for the sale of their IP; it makes it very attractive to stock holders and to potential buyers/investors. Perhaps some of you have noticed them closing some of their stores? What investor or buyer wants to buy a retail chain which, for the most part, is not profitable? This is where I think they’re headed – sale of the company IP. When I worked there we would never have made a 40K movie. We turned down Blizzard’s offer of a fantasy and science fiction computer game. Now look what’s become of their IP. Make of it what you will."
I agree with the guy's observation on consolidation of their IP. It reflects the very aggressive legal stance in protecting their IP as of late. Nobody wants to buy the IP if its potentially unguarded.
Yeah, it's a pretty good point.
But potentially very good for gamers, depending on what company gets a hold of the IP. Worst case is somebody like WotC/Hasbro gets it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kirasu wrote:Think what you want, not really my concern! I stated my hyperbole and you overreacted into personal attacks. It appears we have a difference in opinion
I'm cool with that
I didn't make any personal attacks. The worst thing I said was "get the feth over it', which hardly constitutes a personal attack.
Jesus, why are people so thin-skinned on the 'tubes?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/13 05:36:35
Blizzard already skates the line close enough as is to their stuff, and the release of Wrath of the Lich King so close to WAR was obviously a dick move on Blizzard's part to screw the launch. Add in that when Blizzard approached GW about a computer game, GW was already having SSI doing them--and Blizzard was a complete unknown.
Why ruin a good thing when you had it and take a risk on a new name in the field?
But potentially very good for gamers, depending on what company gets a hold of the IP. Worst case is somebody like WotC/Hasbro gets it.
Well, Wizkids sold their company to Topps during the pinnacle of their success with the mechwarrior IP.
Where is that now? Wizkids is no more and their games are in limbo, many of which were good games despite bad management. NECA now owns them but is slow to bring them back inot their former subjective glory.
I have long thought that if GW sells their IP in its entirety that it will be with no consideration to product quality or customers of their products. They already show disregard to current customers with the mentality that they want a revolving door approach to their consumption.
Kirby bought massive amounts of stock during its lowest point since their IPO and we all know his management skills are not what the consumers are hoping for, but what the investors are hoping for.
I dont begrudge them for wanting to make money, they are a business afterall, but it seems they have goals beyond being a gaming company for the enjoyment of a hobby. Just IMO.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Ostrakon
It's 4:30am here and I can't be arsed to look through the annual report a second time
which page is this on please?
re landraider profits:
isn't there something about stacking em high and selling em cheap?
It's pretty much the first thing that gets mentioned. It's right on the second page of the document.
Revenue £125.7m £110.3m Revenue at constant currency* £113.9m £110.3m
Operating profit - pre-royalties receivable** £5.5m £0.8m
Royalties receivable £3.5m £1.7m
Operating profit** £9.0m £2.5m Pre-tax profit £7.5m £1.1m
Discontinued operations profit/(loss) for the year £0.1m £(1.2)m
Year end net borrowings £1.6m £10.1m
Earnings/(loss) per share 17.8p (2.4)p
Bolded the relevant parts. 125 mil in revenue, less than 10 mil in profits. Sure is a greedy corporation, right?
Nintendo and Apple sell their products at a much, MUCH higher profit margin, but I don't see them getting called out is evil. The fact is, like any reasonable company, they'll charge what people will pay. People are obviously still buying GW merchandise, and it's kind of tiring to watch Dakka posters circle-jerk about how righteous they are for sticking to an evil corporation when they're merely a grossly misinformed but vocal minority.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hellfury wrote:
Ostrakon wrote:
Ostrakon wrote: Get the feth over it.
I love how stating facts makes one a troll. And also, how the definition of 'troll' has now degraded to 'person I disagree with'.
Kirasu wasn't being humorous, he's persistently displayed the "GW is a greedy corporation" sentiment in every thread on the subject I've read.
I dont care about people past posting habits. Its frankly irrelevant.
What is relevant is telling someone to "Get the &%$@ over it." That is trolling. To use your own words from the previous thread:
Ostrakon wrote:"...I think someone ... would probably have the basic, grade-school reading comprehension skills to glean that information from my posts."
Indeed we do.
Sometimes prudence demands calling a spade a spade. You not liking my attitude doesn't make my facts any less valid, and I'm the one with factual data on my side, unlike the proponents of the conflicting viewpoint.
Also, taking my quotes out of context while still trying to claim the moral high ground isn't really helping your argument. I've yet to see anyone posit any data that suggests that GW are a bunch of greedy bastards, and not merely a bunch of stupid, shortsighted investors.
Circle-jerk? Really? I know you are not insinuating that people who are posting about with their dissatisfaction with GW are stand in a circle ejaculating. You who point out the short comings of others for misquoting and their lack of the moral high ground.
Lets point out some things.
Has GW sued or attempted/threatened to sue fanbased websites?
Has GW closed down shops, shortened hours and layed off part time employees?
Has GW taken away support to rogue run events and sponsership to veatern programs?
Has GW started to charge to teach painting/scenery and discontinued free paint in stores?
Has GW raised prices every year in some cases up to 50% on certain items?
Has GW Discontinued/limited Grand tournaments?
Has GW Changed rules based on new model production?
These are just a few points I can make.
You really can't compaire Apple and Nintendo to GW. Thats like apples and oranges are the same cause they are fruits.
Like any Diligent Fan-Boi you run to their defense. I used to be just like you 10 years ago. I made the same points.
"Every one has price increases its only normal"
"These are the best models, they deserve this kind of price"
"You can't expect this kind of talent to not get a raise"
"If you can't afford 2-3$ more, you shouldn't be playing"
"Dude just save up, these models are well worth the price"
"To all the GW nah sayers put up or shut up, people will pay it or stop playing, but shut up about the price increases"
Guess what... like you, I was wrong. I stopped playing, and I stopped defending them.
It's pretty clear based on the rumors that GW is not raising their prices over their entire range. So saying things like "X% increase compared to 3% increase in inflation" is misleading - maybe GW plans on increasing their overall revenue by 3% by raising the prices on select items. This is pure speculation, of course.
Also, I think the idea of putting AOBR in Tesco/Wallmart is a horrible idea. TTWGs are not a mass market product. The majority of people out there don't care about painting or playing with toy soldiers.
I hate to sound like a GW apologist. I'm not pleased about a price increase as the next guy. Those two points, though, stick out to me as poorly thought out. I only watched about half way before I wrote this so I apologize if they address it.
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