GW Upcoming Price Increases - US Edition (One last try?)

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**JOHIRA**

Kirasu wrote:Soon we'll be under the boot of genetically engineered british people who only serve you tea and death (Not necessarily in that order)

Typicall Games Workshop inefficiency. Why waste tea on dead people? The dead can't drink tea! Surely if they'd just streamline their services and just serve death they could reduce cost and not need to raise prices so much!

**TyraelVladinhurst**

lol, not if my boys have their way first

**Gargskull**

I can't belve that black reach will cost nearly $100 in the states soon, that's obscene and is going to be a huge psycological barrier for any parent looking at the hobby for thier kid. $100 just to get started is not going to seen as reasonable when the hobby is percieved as playing with toys.

Completely agree with Beasts Of War's Warren, Black Reach, Skull Pass and yes Space Hulk should be sold en masse at the lowest price possible and in more shops in order to draw people in. As far as I can see GW do nothing to entice new customers relying intstead on word of mouth from the faithful, well that word of mouth is now telling people to just not bother.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

asmith wrote:My guess is they spend most of it on stores and employees who run the stores. I think this model is killing them (in the states at least). Not sure if this would come under the heading of cost of sales or not. I don't think so but I'm no accountant.

They are in the process of restructuring the stores system and are going to expand the number of one person operations.

The 10% profit margin figure is, on its own, fairly meaningless.
If that is a regular annual figure then fair enough.

There are other factors which it does not take into account such as investment in new production in Nottingham and a new facility in America. Plus a resin cell in Shanghai.
These have been put in place to make production more efficient and reduce production costs.
The switch to plastic figures according to the report is to mitigate potential volatility in the metals market. While plastics are oil based they are not as prone to fluctuations as one might suspect. This is stated in GW's report.

Usually such measures at greater efficiency are implemented to make a company more competitive, which usually benefits the consumer with lower prices.
GW effectively has no competitor. Hence they can put into effect the cost saving measures whilst at the same time imposing price increases on the fanbase which is mainly loyal and has a seemingly bottomless pit of parental resources.

GW can do what they want as far as I am concerned. I won't pay £17.50 for a slim volume, half of which is pretty pics promoting product. The codices are ever increasingly becoming swanky advertising brochures as they are army code books. There is no justification for that price, as it seems very unlikely that the print runs are small, which would increase unit costs.
The same goes for the plastics, which are already costing more than limited run plastic injection moulded construction kits.

The problem partly lies with the fanbase who come into the hobby possibly with little experience of comparative products and accept the level of cost without question.

I feel for those who play the tourneys and need to by GW product to compete. I will get as little as I need from GW and continue buying 2nd hand.

**Motograter**

Ive been in this hobby since 1994. i`m nearly 26 now god how old!!!. This price rise is just another kick in the face to there fans. There is no real justification in this at all. I can still afford it as most people can but the question is why would i want to afford it when there is so much better out there. Another thing is time. How long does it take to play a game of 40k of even fantasy now a days when you need so much models in the first place. For some games your talking an entire day while I can go play a game like Malifaux and it only takes an hour tops.

Intro prices are crazy £55 for black reach. Who`s kids parents are gonna go for that. Hell when I was a kid my top pocket money was £15 to £20 if I was lucky which back then bought you whatever you wanted. That now gets you nothing. £22.50 for a box of tactical marines? I mean come on. If I had a kid, max i`d give them would be £20 which if I was to get them into this hobby can`t even buy them the cheapest option of troops for an army.

Keep going GW. You lose out in the end as your just pushing more and more people away to other games.

**LunaHound**

The more expensive they price the models , the less amount people will buy ( this is true. Instead of buying extras, now they'll only spend on the necessities )

The less people make the purchase , the less GW will be able to make back the production cost of the new molds.

Then soon everything will suffer the gold sword syndrome.

**Howard A Treesong**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:GW can do what they want as far as I am concerned. I won't pay £17.50 for a slim volume, half of which is pretty pics promoting product. The codices are ever increasingly becoming swanky advertising brochures as they are army code books. There is no justification for that price, as it seems very unlikely that the print runs are small, which would increase unit costs.

Well the Collector's Guides they did for most armies were £5 each, some thicker than others. They were full colour photos throughout. Wish I had bought more of them. But they were £5 at the same time the codexes were £15, the I don't think the codexes can even boast to be full colour. I suppose more creative effort goes into the codexes what with rules and writing, but ultimately the price of something rarely reflects the input. I'm suprised that the collectors guides were as little as £5 each actually, better value than White Dwarf anyway. That's why there's such a huge variation in prices on single metal miniatures, the more powerful the character the more expensive it is, nowt to do with raw materials.

Anyway, the print runs on the codexes are going to be fairly large, I highly doubt they cost more than £1 each (the paper and ink colours are of decent quality but I'm being very optimistic it's probably more like 50p) and that's assuming they are even printed in the UK. Which they probably aren't as they're likely done in Spain or China so that means they pay even less because printing inside the UK is quite expensive.

**Tim the Biovore**

I'm not that bothered. It'll just be Maelstrom all the way for me, from now on.

**Motograter**

The people that will be buying from Maelstrom and wayland games (this is more UK related) When the prices go up after your discount on them you wil pay what they are selling for now instore ie £20 for a box of marines say. What makes you want to pay that when its what there valued at now? Yes i knwo the price goes up but in effect you lose money on those purchases as your paying what they sel for now but still want them at discount price even though there is no (real) value

**LunaHound**

Tim the Biovore wrote:I'm not that bothered. It'll just be Maelstrom all the way for me, from now on.

Motograter wrote:The people that will be buying from Maelstrom and wayland games (this is more UK related) When the prices go up after your discount on them you wil pay what they are selling for now instore ie £20 for a box of marines say. What makes you want to pay that when its what there valued at now? Yes i knwo the price goes up but in effect you lose money on those purchases as your paying what they sel for now but still want them at discount price even though there is no (real) value

It just means they havnt reached their personal threshold .

**skrulnik**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:GW can do what they want as far as I am concerned. I won't pay £17.50 for a slim volume, half of which is pretty pics promoting product. The codices are ever increasingly becoming swanky advertising brochures as they are army code books. There is no justification for that price, as it seems very unlikely that the print runs are small, which would increase unit costs.

Well the Collector's Guides they did for most armies were £5 each, some thicker than others. They were full colour photos throughout. Wish I had bought more of them. But they were £5 at the same time the codexes were £15, the I don't think the codexes can even boast to be full colour. I suppose more creative effort goes into the codexes what with rules and writing, but ultimately the price of something rarely reflects the input. I'm suprised that the collectors guides were as little as £5 each actually, better value than White Dwarf anyway. That's why there's such a huge variation in prices on single metal miniatures, the more powerful the character the more expensive it is, nowt to do with raw materials.

Anyway, the print runs on the codexes are going to be fairly large, I highly doubt they cost more than £1 each (the paper and ink colours are of decent quality but I'm being very optimistic it's probably more like 50p) and that's assuming they are even printed in the UK. Which they probably aren't as they're likely done in Spain or China so that means they pay even less because printing inside the UK is quite expensive.

All the Codices/Army Books are printed in China. Been this way at least since Chaos Space Marines.

**Shas'O Dorian**

More price increases, just when I'm saving to start dark eldar. I thought the $450 I set aside would be good for a decent army but I'll just have to wait and see.

**DruidODurham**

I'd just like to point out the fact that price increases in any industry are inevitable in the long run. The economies of the U.S. and the U.K. are both being affected by inflation. Thus, for any amount of time a company doesn't raise prices, they are effectively discounting their merchandise as the value of the currency decreases in terms of the real goods it can purchase.
Now, if we could only get our bosses to steadily increase our pay in line with this inflation, especially for us vastly underemployed people working for just a bit more than minimum wage.

**Ixquic**

It's really hard for me to justify their book prices when the things literally disintegrate after you open them. The problem has been around since the High Elf book (maybe earlier?) so at this point it's obvious they just don't care about the issue. I have a 4th edition Orc army book that's in pretty good condition and yet my friend's Blood Angels codex fell apart the same day he got it. I don't pirate their books, but the fact that they are raising the prices on them while continuing to ship a known defective product has me considering it.

**agnosto**

@ Druid.

I don't know about the U.K. but the U.S. Consumer Price Index (CPI) is much lower currently than in 2009... I think we're at .1 and we were at .2 in 2009.

In general, most consumer goods cost less now than they did a year before.

By raising prices, GW is taking a calculated risk that the disposable income of consumers in it's niche market will be able to bear the increase. I, personally, am sceptical as worldwide economic uncertainty abounds and unemployment remains high. Unemployed people generally don't purchase leisure items.

Time will tell how this decision will affect their bottom line as far as sales go.

Current U.S. inflation is 2.3%....

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

Inflation in the UK is 3.5% or there abouts, as pointed out on the linked video.

We have just come out of deflationary period so this is not a likely reason.

**Mistress of minis**

GW continues to find new ways to motivate me to make my own models ^_^

Oh wait, its not even new....its the same reason I havent bought anything new since 2005 when they first started to really screw us.

**Gargskull**

My pays been frozen for the last two years and now I find out I might be losing my job full stop quite soon.

There's going to be bugger all GW product in my future. :(

**pombe**

Well, I was going to respond, but then I realized that the post I made last year pretty much sums up my thoughts and decided to recycle it (though the Space Hulk part no longer applies):

Sadly, I'm a tool, and I will continue to spend money on GW products. In fact, in reaction to this price increase, I just purchased the Assault on Black Reach box set that I have postponed in buying for a while. And it is likely that I will continue to pick up bits and pieces here and there for my existing armies, even though I paint them as a snail's pace. Part of the collector's syndrome, I guess.

And will I continue to pick up Rules and Codeces and Black Library Novels, because I have the compulsive need to "keep up" and I generally like the fluff, especially stuff written by Dan Abnett. And I sure as hell will be picking up a Space Hulk box set when it comes out...or two...or three.

But on average, I don't spend more than $30 a month on GW (Space Hulk will be an obvious exception to this).

It has been like this for me since around 2004 when GW made me reconsider my buying habits. You see, during this period, 3rd Edition was in full swing, and I was regularly purchasing whole armies at a time, a lot of times on impulse. So it was during this particular price increase (2004) that I did what many people are doing now...I made a conscious decision to limit my spending on GW. I knew I couldn't quit...I had invested over a decade of my life into the universe, the miniatures, and the great times I've had playing GW games. And I still wanted to be able to be a part of the hobby and play the games. But instead of spending thousands a year on GW, I slowly cut back, first by increasing my secondary market acquisitions, such as through eBay and Bartertown, and then ultimately by simply buying less.

So this particular price increase (2009) won't affect me much. But that's because GW already broke the back of this camel in 2004. As for when GW will reach the next threshold and force me to consider quitting their products entirely, I'm not sure. I'm sincerely hoping that this trend does not continue, however, because it is getting to the point where I can, in all seriousness, ask myself if their products are, indeed, truly worth it. I have always acknowledged that GW's products are "expensive", but there was always an inherent "value" to their products. Now...it's getting to the point where I am not sure anymore.

**Acardia**

I'm taking this price raise list in with me when I have my yearly salary review next week.

**vitki**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
Usually such measures at greater efficiency are implemented to make a company more competitive, which usually benefits the consumer with lower prices.
GW effectively has no competitor. Hence they can put into effect the cost saving measures whilst at the same time imposing price increases on the fanbase which is mainly loyal and has a seemingly bottomless pit of parental resources.
The problem partly lies with the fanbase who come into the hobby possibly with little experience of comparative products and accept the level of cost without question.

I think this quote is very important (snipped and bolded by me). GW has put in a lot of effort to be the face of miniature gaming. People new to the hobby will not know of smaller companies and so will not know that there are products just as good for less money. I don't know how many people the higher price for the boxed set will turn off. New people don't have the context to know it is higher priced and GW has stated they don't give a skaven's backside about the established gamer.

On the other hand $100 isn't too far off the mark for getting a basic setup with two sides and a rulebook. Look at Warmachine; a rulebook and two battle boxes runs you $130. Granted others are cheaper, but in my experience these two are the biggest use of shelf space in any hobby store I go into.

**puma713**

Gargskull wrote:I can't belve that black reach will cost nearly $100 in the states soon, that's obscene and is going to be a huge psycological barrier for any parent looking at the hobby for thier kid. $100 just to get started is not going to seen as reasonable when the hobby is percieved as playing with toys.

Completely agree with Beasts Of War's Warren, Black Reach, Skull Pass and yes Space Hulk should be sold en masse at the lowest price possible and in more shops in order to draw people in. As far as I can see GW do nothing to entice new customers relying intstead on word of mouth from the faithful, well that word of mouth is now telling people to just not bother.

This is what got me. The AoBR increase. I remember a few weeks ago I was playing a tournament in a FLGS and a father and son came in while we were playing. The two were looking around at all sorts of wargames and the rep came over to talk to them about the various options they had. They discussed the differences in Flames of War, Warmachine, even Heroquest-esque board games that are great introductory tools to the market. Once the father and son looked at WFB and 40K, they asked, "What's that about?" "Its the game that all these guys are playing. Expensive, though."

The father put the boxes down and moved on. That's all it took. And that was AoBR (if I'm not mistaken) at $75. Now, at $90, it's not going to suddenly draw more people to it. The AoBR increase sounds more like a deterrent of people buying that kit to get all the models inside than it is to get more players. But how do you refresh your fanbase if you keep increasing the price of the starter kit to a level that most kids can't afford and most parents won't go for? What are you counting on, GW? White Dwarf to lure people in?

To me, it seems like you may be bringing in a little more money for some kits, but you're going to be losing an increase in new players, the speed at which people buy and the patience of some gamers altogether. I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't glanced over at Warmachine a time or two in the past few days.

**Kanluwen**

vitki wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
Usually such measures at greater efficiency are implemented to make a company more competitive, which usually benefits the consumer with lower prices.
GW effectively has no competitor. Hence they can put into effect the cost saving measures whilst at the same time imposing price increases on the fanbase which is mainly loyal and has a seemingly bottomless pit of parental resources.
The problem partly lies with the fanbase who come into the hobby possibly with little experience of comparative products and accept the level of cost without question.

I think this quote is very important (snipped and bolded by me). GW has put in a lot of effort to be the face of miniature gaming. People new to the hobby will not know of smaller companies and so will not know that there are products just as good for less money. I don't know how many people the higher price for the boxed set will turn off. New people don't have the context to know it is higher priced and GW has stated they don't give a skaven's backside about the established gamer.

Not true. Just because they're "smaller" companies does not equal products "just as good for less money". Most of the companies you're referring to are producing absolute ass products or limited to just single-pose plastics, resin models, metal models, or prepaints.
As for cost?
You spend just as much on a Warmachine force with infantry+warjacks+all the possible warcasters you need as a 40k army.
You can spend just as much on an AT-43 force, Secrets of the Third Reich, etc.
There is no property that really matches Games Workshop's in terms of player base and the specific games themselves. For all the holes in the rules or gaps in the model lines, you're not paying just for the models or the rules.
You're paying for what is, at the moment, the most dominant of all the tabletop game companies. The one you're most likely to be able to find something in the line-up that interests you, whether you're wanting a force similar to the Covenant from Halo or an Elf army themed around the Dalish from Dragon Age: Origins. The one where you can almost be guaranteed to find a gaming group to play regularly, tournaments to play in, and be assured that your investment in an army will actually be able to make something of a return in terms of you getting to play with the army.

On the other hand $100 isn't too far off the mark for getting a basic setup with two sides and a rulebook. Look at Warmachine; a rulebook and two battle boxes runs you $130. Granted others are cheaper, but in my experience these two are the biggest use of shelf space in any hobby store I go into.

Privateer's not done well in my region. Secrets of the Third Reich and Flames of War both take up the space that in most areas would be Warmachine.

And good riddance to Privateer, in my opinion.
Hail to West Wind and Grindhouse!

**Minsc**

It's technically $120 to start an army, if you use the AoBR as a starting place and then buy a codex for one of them. It's still saving over rulebook + codex + models, but barely (What, $30, $40 being saved?).

That's the thing I think is silly about this. Oh, and 10 Skeletons being about $5 less than 20 of them from the last kit, but that's not as bad as people don't use Skeletons much anyways. Anyways, back to the point, $120 to actually start the hobby is a bit much. When I started, I think it was something like that to get the 3rd Edition box set... but it came with a full rulebook, as well as being slightly cheaper (if less models) after including Codexes and having models that weren't two / three pieces.

I just don't see the starter set becoming appealing when up to $90. Given the choice between a known like (2+ games) and a risky reach (Wargaming system), they're likely going to go for the sure thing. Which is bad, because a lot of the profit I see GW make is not from people who stick with the hobby but those who stop in once, buy the starter, go "WTF was I thinking?" and move on (the frequency of a customer hooked in Balt and staying hooked is low compared to just enough interest to buy a starter).

**gorgon**

vitki wrote:I think this quote is very important (snipped and bolded by me). GW has put in a lot of effort to be the face of miniature gaming. People new to the hobby will not know of smaller companies and so will not know that there are products just as good for less money. I don't know how many people the higher price for the boxed set will turn off. New people don't have the context to know it is higher priced and GW has stated they don't give a skaven's backside about the established gamer.

I agree that new gamers tend not to be educated consumers.

The other thing is that GW has managed to push a mindset of "only official GW products for GW gaming" onto its customers, mainly through enforcing that rule at its stores and at its tournaments. There's no such mindset in most other areas of wargaming.

So with the US tourney scene going more independent, and GW stores going to more one-person operations with less gaming space...will makers of alternative minis for GW gaming finally start to gain some real traction? Possibly not, but it was an interesting thought.

One point of disagreement though is about GW and vets. I think they definitely care about vets, given the ever-rising price of the hobby. Yes, children have big allowances these days, but they can't spend like I can spend.

I think they view Apoc for instance as a nod to veterans and a way to get more veteran spending. I'd wager there's some kind of tiered customer strategy going on.

**ivangterrace**

I don't really understand why people take price increases like this personally. They are a business and want to make money in the short term. There is nothing we can do but vote with our dollar really.

From what I've been reading, it seems like GW is on the very edge of not being able to cut any more stuff to skinny up (or down)

Ever remember playing tower defense for the first time and never upgrading your towers? Sure they work for awhile but you get overwhelmed a lot faster than if you upgraded your towers. Basically, GW is doing it wrong.

P.S. Why the hell would you ever invest in a miniatures company? I wouldn't.

**agnosto**

I don't get where people think kids have such huge allowances or giving parents. I don't know any kids that can walk into a store with mom or dad and plunk down $100 on a toy/game. I know if I were a parent, I'd tell the kid to pick a cheaper hobby or spend a bit more for a console system that I would play too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ivangterrace wrote:P.S. Why the hell would you ever invest in a miniatures company? I wouldn't.

I shorted GW and made a profit. I'd never go long with them though.

**Redbeard**

Can we just copy last year's thread and call it done?

Seriously people, it's called disposable income for a reason. It's what is left to spend after bills, taxes, and other responsibilities are met. Complaining about the price of luxury items is somewhat insulting to the number of people in the world who live below the poverty line, and have trouble putting food on their tables and heat in their homes.

If you no longer want to spend your disposable income on toy soldiers, then don't. If you still want to enjoy this luxury activity, then continue to do so at a level that you're comfortable with. But protesting the price increase? Really? Have you seen the cost of non-luxury items lately? Make your protest count for something real at least.

**carmachu**

Wow. $90 for the starter box? Over $60 for LR and battlewagons? Some of the pricing doesnt seem reality based.

**Spacemanvic**

carmachu wrote:Wow. $90 for the starter box? Over $60 for LR and battlewagons? Some of the pricing doesnt seem reality based.

I think they believe we are all members of Parliament, Congress or the Senate. We'll just print more money or get someone else to pay for it...