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Redbeard wrote:Can we just copy last year's thread and call it done?

Seriously people, it's called disposable income for a reason. It's what is left to spend after bills, taxes, and other responsibilities are met. Complaining about the price of luxury items is somewhat insulting to the number of people in the world who live below the poverty line, and have trouble putting food on their tables and heat in their homes.

If you no longer want to spend your disposable income on toy soldiers, then don't. If you still want to enjoy this luxury activity, then continue to do so at a level that you're comfortable with. But protesting the price increase? Really? Have you seen the cost of non-luxury items lately? Make your protest count for something real at least.

So, no matter what you spend your disposable income on, you should be neutral about the price going up? What if they upped your cable bill by 20%? You'd be fine with that? "Eh, I don't "have" to have it, so I shouldn't complain." BS. That's a cop out - a way to tell others that their opinion doesn't count. You wouldn't be happy. You might stick with the cable company, you might not. The point is that you -are- happy with the cable company, but this makes you unhappy with their practices. The same thing goes for this. I -do- enjoy getting more models, more armies, more options. Now, I'm asked to pay more for it than I was yesterday. But I'm expected to either quit or get over it? Nah, I don't just lie down or let someone walk over me. I make a decision. Voicing my opinion/decision is a part of that. If you don't like it, you can quit Dakka or get over it, right?

You're spending your money on something that you want. The price of the thing you want increases. You aren't happy because you don't want to spend any -more- money to get the same product, especially without being given any reason. This is abnormal? Give me a break. And about the people below the poverty line - I hope you're giving all of your disposable income to them. I hope you're happy about rising gas prices (you could just carpool, right?). I hope you're recycling everything. I hope you're giving all your leftover food at the end of the day/week/month to a shelter to feed the homeless. You're doing these things right? Because if you're not, you have no ground to talk about insulting those below the poverty line. I guess we should all just give up all of our hobbies and donate all of our money right? Probably should, but it's not going to happen.

You said, "If you still want to enjoy this luxury activity, then continue to do so at a level that you're comfortable with." That's why people are protesting. Because the level that they're comfortable with enjoying something that they've enjoyed for years just got uncomfortable. But, we're just supposed to "get over it" - in essence, "grow up" - whatever, Dad.

Kirasu wrote:theyre spending it on REAL land raiders.. You think their fluff is fiction? its their MASTER PLAN

Soon we'll be under the boot of genetically engineered british people who only serve you tea and death (Not necessarily in that order)

my deepest fears finally realized...Hooray!!

Can we just copy last year's thread and call it done?

no
Some of us weren't around for that one.
If we dig that up we get trashed for necrophilia of old threads

so for you dakka vets just sit back and enjoy what must be the annual price hike fest.
Ah like christmas it must seem to come around quicker every year!

Redbeard wrote:Can we just copy last year's thread and call it done?

Seriously people, it's called disposable income for a reason. It's what is left to spend after bills, taxes, and other responsibilities are met. Complaining about the price of luxury items is somewhat insulting to the number of people in the world who live below the poverty line, and have trouble putting food on their tables and heat in their homes.

If you no longer want to spend your disposable income on toy soldiers, then don't. If you still want to enjoy this luxury activity, then continue to do so at a level that you're comfortable with. But protesting the price increase? Really? Have you seen the cost of non-luxury items lately? Make your protest count for something real at least.

Not to be harsh, but how you can even compare luxury items with plastic toy soldiers. As for complaining about the price of "Luxury" items, I, we can talk/complain about what ever we like, this is a forum after all. It is disposable income...MY disposable income and I can spend it how I choose. Whos the insulting one? one who complains about this, or the people who put up with it and pay even more while there are people who don't have food on their table. Why don't you get off your soapbox...

puma713 wrote:
So, no matter what you spend your disposable income on, you should be neutral about the price going up?

I didn't say you should be neutral about it. If it offends you, stop paying it.

What if they upped your cable bill by 20%? You'd be fine with that?

I don't spend my disposable income on cable - I don't see that luxury as being worth the money it costs.

Now, I'm asked to pay more for it than I was yesterday. But I'm expected to either quit or get over it? Nah, I don't just lie down or let someone walk over me. I make a decision. Voicing my opinion/decision is a part of that. If you don't like it, you can quit Dakka or get over it, right?

Voicing your opinion on dakka is tantamount to lying down and taking it. If you whine like a bitch, but you still pay for it - what does that make you? An addict? If it offends you, stop giving them your money. Hit them where it hurts - in their pocket. Don't cry about how they're mistreating you while still rewarding them. If the cost/benefit ratio has swung to the cost side for you, be smart about it and walk away.

Why do they keep raising prices? Because people whine and cry online and think that matters. It doesn't. What matters is if they lose customers. The only question is does this matter enough to you to make you quit? If it does, then quit. If it doesn't, regardless of how much you cry, you're still buying into the system.

Rikashi wrote:
Not to be harsh, but how you can even compare luxury items with plastic toy soldiers.

Economically speaking, anything that is not a necessity is a luxury. An ork boy is not a Ferrari, but it doesn't cost the same as a Ferrari either (yet?)

... In all honesty, it's why I'm dropping 40k and moving back to BFG. I was going to build my 3rd 2K point IG army. Now the finished minis for that are being sent to my RT game for it, and my only planned purchase is a despoiler. I can build a decent fleet so much cheaper.

That said: there's no reason for the price hike. I could understand if costs increased, or they were releasing anew versions of the figures in question and needed to recoup the development costs, but...

Redbeard wrote:

puma713 wrote:
So, no matter what you spend your disposable income on, you should be neutral about the price going up?

I didn't say you should be neutral about it. If it offends you, stop paying it.

The issue is actually not about me as much as it is about bringing new gamers in and watching the gaming pool shrink. The prices that are going up don't affect me that much. I am more offended about what they're doing to the newer players. If these prices had been in place when I first started 40K, I doubt I would have started it. It does offend me, but I'm not going to stop paying either. Why? Because that is another means to the same end. You think they'll lower prices again? They'll either raise prices and lose business or raise prices and shut down. No one flocks to an item because its price was increased (except maybe designer items and their excluisivity).

Redbeard wrote:

puma713 wrote:
What if they upped your cable bill by 20%? You'd be fine with that?

I don't spend my disposable income on cable - I don't see that luxury as being worth the money it costs.

It was a hypothetical situation.

Redbeard wrote:

puma713 wrote:
Now, I'm asked to pay more for it than I was yesterday. But I'm expected to either quit or get over it? Nah, I don't just lie down or let someone walk over me. I make a decision. Voicing my opinion/decision is a part of that. If you don't like it, you can quit Dakka or get over it, right?

Voicing your opinion on dakka is tantamount to lying down and taking it. If you whine like a bitch, but you still pay for it - what does that make you? An addict? If it offends you, stop giving them your money. Hit them where it hurts - in their pocket. Don't cry about how they're mistreating you while still rewarding them. If the cost/benefit ratio has swung to the cost side for you, be smart about it and walk away.


Why do they keep raising prices? Because people whine and cry online and think that matters. It doesn't. What matters is if they lose customers. The only question is does this matter enough to you to make you quit? If it does, then quit. If it doesn't, regardless of how much you cry, you're still buying into the system.

That's all well and good. It may even be true. However, I've never said I won't "vote with my wallet". Just because I'm here talking about my distaste of the change doesn't mean I'm not also out there, not spending money. You're saying that no one should voice their opinion. Either vote with your wallet and be silent or quit and be silent. Don't voice your opinion here, whatever you do! Why? Because you're much too busy to read it? If no one voiced their opinion, you'd have nothing to reply to and be snide about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTUAkqn_A7E

Mantic announce price rise?

Voicing your opinion on dakka is tantamount to lying down and taking it. If you whine like a bitch, but you still pay for it - what does that make you? An addict? If it offends you, stop giving them your money. Hit them where it hurts - in their pocket. Don't cry about how they're mistreating you while still rewarding them. If the cost/benefit ratio has swung to the cost side for you, be smart about it and walk away.

Why do they keep raising prices? Because people whine and cry online and think that matters. It doesn't. What matters is if they lose customers. The only question is does this matter enough to you to make you quit? If it does, then quit. If it doesn't, regardless of how much you cry, you're still buying into the system.

For a supposed "MOD" You are incredibly rude. Maybe you should mod yourself.

This is not a personal attack but a observation.

Havoc13 wrote:

Voicing your opinion on dakka is tantamount to lying down and taking it. If you whine like a bitch, but you still pay for it - what does that make you? An addict? If it offends you, stop giving them your money. Hit them where it hurts - in their pocket. Don't cry about how they're mistreating you while still rewarding them. If the cost/benefit ratio has swung to the cost side for you, be smart about it and walk away.

Why do they keep raising prices? Because people whine and cry online and think that matters. It doesn't. What matters is if they lose customers. The only question is does this matter enough to you to make you quit? If it does, then quit. If it doesn't, regardless of how much you cry, you're still buying into the system.

For a supposed "MOD" You are incredibly rude. Maybe you should mod yourself.

This is not a personal attack but a observation.

^
QFT

Havoc13 wrote:

Voicing your opinion on dakka is tantamount to lying down and taking it. If you whine like a bitch, but you still pay for it - what does that make you? An addict? If it offends you, stop giving them your money. Hit them where it hurts - in their pocket. Don't cry about how they're mistreating you while still rewarding them. If the cost/benefit ratio has swung to the cost side for you, be smart about it and walk away.

Why do they keep raising prices? Because people whine and cry online and think that matters. It doesn't. What matters is if they lose customers. The only question is does this matter enough to you to make you quit? If it does, then quit. If it doesn't, regardless of how much you cry, you're still buying into the system.

For a supposed "MOD" You are incredibly rude. Maybe you should mod yourself.

This is not a personal attack but a observation.

Um, actually that -is- a personal attack bud.

Mods are posters too. They can express themselves however they please, but once the big red text comes out? That's when they're acting "officially" and should be as polite and professional(as professional as volunteers who get paid nothing and get no real special perks can be ) as possible.

Just to be clear, I'm not a forum mod, I'm just a poster here. I help out with the article system.

And. . . back to the topic before this one gets locked down too.

GW raises prices and all is right with the world. This is likely brought on by "elevated oil prices" at least that's what GW will say.

I think Redbeard is right and people are being whiny. I stopped buying GW in any significant quantity, just the very rare occasional kit. For that I don't have much right to complain but even if I wanted to complain this isn't the venue. Dakka is not the venue for voicing anger at GW raising prices. Speak with your dollar.

Supply and demand dictate that if demand declines they will have to reduce prices or fail.

People can, and should, be able to discuss this in such a way as to avoid unnecessary rudeness and thread-lock.

People should feel free to voice their opinions on this here AND with their wallets.

Topics DO get a certain exposure with the powers that be here on Dakka.

But this carries little to no weight when it comes to actual decision making.

The almighty dollar (or local currency of your choice) is what matters in the end.

aka_mythos wrote:GW raises prices and all is right with the world. This is likely brought on by "elevated oil prices" at least that's what GW will say.

I think Redbeard is right and people are being whiny. I stopped buying GW in any significant quantity, just the very rare occasional kit. For that I don't have much right to complain but even if I wanted to complain this isn't the venue. Dakka is not the venue for voicing anger at GW raising prices. Speak with your dollar.

Supply and demand dictate that if demand declines they will have to reduce prices or fail.

increases, decreases in cost,

what wargames manufacturers produce,

and what we, the gamer have to say about them are ALL relevant on a forum that is dedicated to wargames and wargamers.
A forum is just an alternative venue to talk about such things.

to me the ones that will be really hurt by the price increase are the addicts and people that gotta start a new army every year or need to buy every new kit just because it's a new kit. IMO the "average player" just has 1 or 2 armies and only buys things occasionally. Just using my club as an example, I've been with em going on 10 years and most of the guys have been playing the same couple armies for that long. they're perfectly happy playing their army once a month and adding a box of something to it every 4 or 5 months.

I don't like having to pay more but to be honest I'll continue to pay whatever the price is for as long as I feel I'm getting my money's worth out of what I'm buying.. and the time spent & enjoyment building and painting and playing with a $35 box of army men or a $99 baneblade is a heluva lot more than I'd get out of a $70 PS3 game that I'd play for a week then shelf forever

Mistress of minis wrote:GW continues to find new ways to motivate me to make my own models ^_^

Oh wait, its not even new....its the same reason I havent bought anything new since 2005 when they first started to really screw us.

Wouldnt that be about 2001/2002 when they removed internet cart shopping?

As a new player (just the past 3 months) to Warhammer 40k I already thought the cost points were pretty high. Like the majority of people I am not happy about the increases. Will I continue to play and buy new models books? Yes, but it will be at a much slower pace and due to that I will spend less over all then I would have. If it is a choice between food or rent and Warhammer then there is no choice to make. It's a personal choice on how I spend my extra income and how many hours of gaming goodness I feel I'm getting for my hard earned dollar. I guess for me it's still worth it, but only barely.

As for the price increase on ABR I'm with BeastsofWar and a lot of others. ABR should be dropped in price or kept the same. If you can't draw people into the game then in 5, 10, 15 years who will be there to funnel money into the GW machine?

Additionally, I was thinking about getting into WHFB when the new manual is released. Now I will have to seriously evaluate my decision before making that sort of an investment into another GW game.

Ah price increases, oh yay, my scalding sarcasim can even come accross for this lol. Seriously, bottom line is this, GW uped their prices X amount for a number of items, I hear 15-20 % is the average. Why they did this, we don't know, we have many theorys but it is not like GW is going to tell us any time soon. So our options are this.
1) Stick with the hobby and find alternative plastics, and never play in tournys.

2) Stay with the hobby, accept the price hike as it is and continue to buy GW products.

3) Quit GW wargames all together and go to the less well known but still much fun alternatives, Warmachine, or Flames of War for example.

I do agree though that they should change starter sets, and army boxes should come with your HQ/General, and 2+ core/troop choices. And even the points out. You should be able to buy an army box and have everything you need to play another guy with his army box, just mho though.

Mr. Burning wrote:All we can do is see how the price rises will affect GW when they release their financial statements next year.
I don't think that there will be a dramatic negative impact.

Or we could just look at all the previous years where they raised the prices by 15%. Sales revenue stagnated or decreased almost all the recent years inspite the price hikes. So they sold 15% less each year. Year after year. Guess what next financial report will reveal!

DruidODurham wrote:I'd just like to point out the fact that price increases in any industry are inevitable in the long run.

In most industries, there is a competition for lowering prices. Example: Would you pay double the price today for a car released 5 years ago? GW does that with Cadians and other products.

ivangterrace wrote:I don't really understand why people take price increases like this personally. They are a business and want to make money in the short term.

Problem is they don't. They lose money, they decrease sales, they lose customers. For years. And they go on with the same strategy.

vitki wrote:New people don't have the context to know it is higher priced and GW has stated they don't give a skaven's backside about the established gamer.

You don't need a good education to see that 100$ is a lot of money for starting such a hobby.

Gargskull wrote:As far as I can see GW do nothing to entice new customers relying intstead on word of mouth from the faithful, well that word of mouth is now telling people to just not bother.

puma713 wrote:The issue is actually not about me as much as it is about bringing new gamers in and watching the gaming pool shrink. The prices that are going up don't affect me that much. I am more offended about what they're doing to the newer players. If these prices had been in place when I first started 40K, I doubt I would have started it.

It is quite obvious that raising prices 15% each year is not a substitute for marketing your product. It is economical suicide, and the financial report shows it clearly. Now it hits beginners the hardest. The "no advertising" policy is bad enough for getting new customers into the hobby, making Space Hulk limited was dumb beyond words, now raising the hurdle for entering the hobby by 15% each year is just

If there's anything I learned in my economics class, it's that businesses exist to make money. GW may not actually make any money (in any length of time) by raising the prices, but at least they think they will.

The only thing I really worry about with the price increase is our FLGS. In my area, our GW closed down long ago because of issues with cost of rent, and there isn't one anywhere near my state. Our FLGS's is the only place to play aside from kitchen tables and basements (and less face it, if we had to pick the store or your house, were would you play). Our FLGS that actually sells a large range of GW product and has enough space to have more than 2 tables has already been scrounging around to make ends meet, even going as far to ask for money for 'Ard Boyz to help keep the store afloat. As much as the price increase affects the consumer and hobbyist, it affects the distributers also.

In an economy as uncertain as it is now, I would argue that a price increase by GW is ill timed and may mean the end of some of our favorite places to play. Truly a sad situation.

Kroothawk brings up a valid point - GW might need to consider advertising, finally, to increase their customer base!

Imagine that!

Alpharius wrote:Kroothawk brings up a valid point - GW might need to consider advertising, finally, to increase their customer base!

Imagine that!

Maybe they're counting on the Ultramarine movie to do that for them:

Moviegoer: Well that was pretty cool. I'll have to look into Warhammer when I get home.

Moviegoer calls around to see if anyone knows much about it

Store Owner: Hello?

Moviegoer: Hey there, I just saw Ultramarine and I was curious about what Warhammer is all about.

Store Owner: Well, you could come check out the starter box. It's a wargame between various armies.

Moviegoer: Oh yeah? What's it cost to get started?

Store Owner: Well. . . . .

Maybe so, maybe no. From an advertising perspective, the Dawn of War series must have reached out to a fair few people who otherwise would not have known about the hobby but I don't think there has been a massive influx of new customers.

filbert wrote:Maybe so, maybe no. From an advertising perspective, the Dawn of War series must have reached out to a fair few people who otherwise would not have known about the hobby but I don't think there has been a massive influx of new customers.

Exactly. To those that play the game, they love it for what it once was and what it has the potential to be. For those that aren't that interested in spending all that money, they get a similar effect from Dawn of War at a mere pittance in comparison. Why go buy the army and do the same thing that you're doing on the computer?

the 40k movie would be a great way to introduce people to the hobby that might have never heard of it, but since it's going straight to video the only people that will watch it are GW fanboys like us.

GW raises prices and all is right with the world. This is likely brought on by "elevated oil prices" at least that's what GW will say.

The Annual Report mentions the switch from metals with a volatile market, to plastics, which despite of oil prices fluctauting is far more stable.

And as we demonstrated this year, we have mitigated the risk of metal cost price increases by the continued development of our plastic ranges, where we are better able to manage commodity price fluctuations.

p7 GAMES WORKSHOP GROUP PLC Annual report 2009

It would seem unlikely that this would be used as a reason for the price hikes.
AFAIK despite some recent petrol price increases here in the UK the cost of oil has not shifted as dramatically as it had a couple of years back.
Also if the price increase was due to oil prices there surely would have been a more consistent rise in prices across the entire range to offset higher production costs.

GW have been selective of the products with a varied rate of price increase.

If GW wants to fix their "financial woes" they should look around at other miniature producing companies. There's one thing that GW does, the others don't.

Operate their own stores.

Maybe if they stopped being tools to retailers/distributors and embraced the internet better, they wouldn't need to have GW stores. The amount of overhead they could cut is insane.

I can't speak for countries outside the U.S., but there are FLGS in just about every town in some form. Coupled with the fact that GW stores only sell their product, they have become a niche store in a niche market. Most FLGS sell a mixed bag to cater to all, and most squeak by with those offerings. It doesn't help that most FLGS, online or not, are willing to give discounts that GW will not compete with.

They should close their stores and go back to the Rogue Trader program. Pay people to be area/traveling gamers/promoters. Back in the day, I would hit the store everytime I knew the RT dude was coming in. Games, prizes, demos, sneak peaks, etc... It also meant that would by something almost everytime.

Hard to resist when someone is shaking the new hotness coming down the pipe right in front of you.

Anyone remembers the time, when GW said they wanted to do more plastic kits to make the hobby cheaper?
Now old Steel Legion is cheaper than old plastic Cadians and Catachans!

BTW many veterans got into the hobby by Heroquest and Space Crusade (and in Germany into LOTR by a "magazine with GW sprue" combo, the reason why LOTR is still popular in Germany and no other country). Why? Because those non-GW companies distributing these made professional advertising. Talking to someone who already IS in your store is not enough, forcing someone to pay 8$ to see your shiny pictures in a magazine (WD) is not advertising. Esp. when your pricing policy and your main target customer, teens, don't match.