8th Edition : Opinions/Advance order is now up/pics on page 2

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**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Haven't really looked at the Rumours to be honest, but the Lores are really good. Definite themes, dual casting levels for most spells, and every Lore has an 'Attribute' which gives them an edge in certain situations.

Biggest change? You pick your lore when you draw up your list, NOT when you setup on the board. Seemingly a small thing, but it prevents cherry picking to thrash your opponent.

**Minsc**

Lores do look to be improved for those who have access to them. Fire, Light, and Death appear to be the big ones people will take (Death and Fire for major casualties, Light for all the buffs / debuffs).

**Karon**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Haven't really looked at the Rumours to be honest, but the Lores are really good. Definite themes, dual casting levels for most spells, and every Lore has an 'Attribute' which gives them an edge in certain situations.

Biggest change? You pick your lore when you draw up your list, NOT when you setup on the board. Seemingly a small thing, but it prevents cherry picking to thrash your opponent.

I really like this change to magic. It does, as you said, prevents specializing and customizing your magic towards your opponent. Though, this means that GW is encouraging Open-Lists, which I agree with as well.

I agree with whoever said that Elite, single attack infantry will benefit from the horde rule the most. I thought this as well, and am eager to running 3x10 or 4x10 block of bestigors, which is going to be NASTY. Though, that is 533 points, which is including Full Command and a War Banner, that's 4x10. I'll probably go with 3x10 to be on the cheaper side at 413 points with the goodies mentioned earlier.

Heh, 3 blocks of 3x10 Bestigors with Full Command and a War Banner. THAT is a battle line, supported with some screening ungor raiders, Tuskgor Chariots, and a 1-2 units of harpies, along with the LD from my Beastlord and BSB, that would be pretty nice.

**Minsc**

Only one would have the War Banner, and if I recall right from the Magic Item list it'll be 35pts next edition.

Bestigors aren't going to benefit from Horde as much as 20mm models (losing 9-12 attacks as opposed to 6-9), but it's still a gain. 30 models doesn't seem like it's big enough, however, as you're going to want a final rank to make sure you keep three when you reach combat.

EDIT: Speaking of Magic Items, who here can't wait for a Flying Ogre Tyrant?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Minsc, not meaning to have a go at you fella, but you are assuming that just because someone may not take advantage of the Horde rule, they are by default going to stick to 5 wide. Lots of players I've encountered already favour 6 wide, as it gives you an all important extra attack.

**Minsc**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Minsc, not meaning to have a go at you fella, but you are assuming that just because someone may not take advantage of the Horde rule, they are by default going to stick to 5 wide. Lots of players I've encountered already favour 6 wide, as it gives you an all important extra attack.

Six wide only gives the extra attack for certain if a 25mm base: When it comes to 20mm, a six-wide front gives just as many attacks as a five-wide front if the Horde foe is 25mm. If you assume the small unit is a 25mm unit six wide, then it's less lost attacks (3-4 depending on if the 20mm has spears, 6-8 if 25mm has spears or not), but in such a case you can still mitigate.

Not trying to say Horde's completely worthless, but I'm a bit fed up having gone to my GW with people going like "OMG TEN WIDE U GET 30-40 ATTACKS!" without acknowledging that you can - even in the worst case scenario - mitigate at least 10% of the incoming attacks against you (best case scenario) and potentially up to 40%.

**Karon**

Most all Beastmen units except Ungors go 6 Wide for the extra attacks, the same goes for W.o.C, etc.

**Uriels_Flame**

well, looks like I picked a bad time to run TK chariots of fire. I guess volley will help my archers though.

**Voodoo Boyz**

The more I get "confirmed" about 8th, the more certain I am that I'm going to be giving up the game entirely.

**brettz123**

Necros wrote:So what's the deal with bigger units? Are they supposed to be like 10 wide now? If you want more ranks than the other guy, it's gonna be tough to do with units that wide, not to mention just moving & turning. And then having enough points in an average game for units of 40+ models? Seems like something you'd only be able to do with little wimpy things like goblins and skaven

The reason it is good is because with cheap troops (think skaven or goblins specifically) you can take one 10x4 unit (or deeper) instead of two 5x4 units. It is actually cheaper because you have one command instead of two and you get MORE attacks over the same frontage.

**eimaj**

Are there rules for seige games and warbands in the big tome?

**mikhaila**

Voodoo Boyz wrote:The more I get "confirmed" about 8th, the more certain I am that I'm going to be giving up the game entirely.

You want me to put a book aside for you, or the spiffy gamers edition?

**RiTides**

Is the "gamer's edition" the one that comes with all of the extra stuff (dice, compass-thing, etc?). I thought there was also another "collector's edition" as well... what's the difference?

**bravelybravesirrobin**

Hmmm 3 x 10 hammerers?

They're already stubborn with decent toughness and saves.

So go for full static res or an extra 5-10 g-weapon attacks? I'm thinking that in the middle with the Dwarf Lord and a Banner would make a good centre unit.

But I suck at Fantasy so everyone please tell me why I'm wrong.

**sonofruss**

Man this edition will cost me more money for my dwarves more bodies and cannons more money for empire more cannons and orcs lots of bodies and rock lobbas.

**mikhaila**

RiTides wrote:Is the "gamer's edition" the one that comes with all of the extra stuff (dice, compass-thing, etc?). I thought there was also another "collector's edition" as well... what's the difference?

Oh, I've actually got no friggin clue.)

GW will tell me about the different versions, what I can get for my stores, and let me look at the book I have coming in the mail tomorrow. My poor sales rep still wasn't allowed to talk to me at all about 8th edition today.

I only know that there is something called a "collector's edition" and a "gamers edition" because it says so on the GW website today, but with no info on them. In the past Collectors = Very spiffy rulebook in slipcase that you won't ever take to a gaming table. Gamers edition = HC + SC + carry bag + red templates + ivory looking dice. But for this round, who knows, maybe those wonky looking empirish calipers?

We all find out tomorrow what the different edtions are, and some of us will get to look at the rule book and then post about it. I will be sleeping with mine under my pillow to absorb the game by osmosis.

**BorderCountess**

sonofruss wrote:Man this edition will cost me more money for my dwarves more bodies and cannons more money for empire more cannons and orcs lots of bodies and rock lobbas.

Isn't that the whole bloody point?!

I don't want to buy a crap-ton more models. I just spent a ton of money to revamp my Warriors of Tzeentch army after it got nullified by the change from HoC to WoC. Now I'm looking at needing to do so AGAIN. Not to mention that my Empire army will probably need more artillery, and I don't know what for my Dark Elves, and the kebosh has probably been put into the fledgling VC army I was trying to build.

I'm going to give this a couple oif games to feel it out, but I'm not liking it. Random charge moves, looser movement, so many guys fighting, and fighting in Initiative order (loss of first strike for chargers) all seem to make for a less tactical, more random game - and I haven't even seen the new magic rules yet (still hoping that whole 2d6 PD business in utter nonsense). So far, this doesn't feel like a new edition, it feels like a new game, and not in a good way.

**sonofruss**

That is my point well almost my point i need to raise my dwarves and my boyz to the empire I have already

**Karon**

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Hmmm 3 x 10 hammerers?

They're already stubborn with decent toughness and saves.

So go for full static res or an extra 5-10 g-weapon attacks? I'm thinking that in the middle with the Dwarf Lord and a Banner would make a good centre unit.

But I suck at Fantasy so everyone please tell me why I'm wrong.

I'm doing the same with my Bestigors, which are comparable to Hammerers (Gw's, S4, comparable cost, etc) as well as putting my Beastlord and BSB in there to make a good center unit for my army. They won't need to maneuver much since they'll have their flanks covered by Gor Blocks

**Superscope**

Sounds like i might have to get my Skaven out of my damn box and actualy build them for once ;p

**Savnock**

Cannot WAIT to hear what test games end up playing out like. Please consider this an official begging, folks who have the book:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post batreps of your first few 8th ed. games, with illuminations of how the new rules work out.

**BAWTRM**

@Karon: Wouldn't you be terrified of template artillery when fielding an elite horde unit? They might very well change the Strength values of them but right now Empire still has a S3 warmachine and a S5 one, both plonking down big pie plates.

**Chimera_Calvin**

The gravitational pull of WFB is increasing...

After hearing that armies could still take 50% characters (25% Lords and 25% Heroes) I thought 'oh no, its still Herohammer' but everything that has been said seems to indicate that the rules have been balanced away from this in any event.

If GW has managed to pull this off, my wallet could take a serious pounding

**radiohazard**

Thanks Mad Dok, an awesome post.

I think I'm going to knock 40k on the head until 6th ed or the new CSM book is released and get that Ogre Army I've had my eye on for a couple of years.

OK look to be a wee bit uber now so that's kool.

How many Ogres do you need in a unit for horde???

**reds8n**

RiTides wrote:Is the "gamer's edition" the one that comes with all of the extra stuff (dice, compass-thing, etc?). I thought there was also another "collector's edition" as well... what's the difference?

There is, AFAIK, another collectors edition.

**Erasoketa**

It has been said that there is another collector's edition of the rulebook alone, with leather covers or something like that.

**Surtur**

radiohazard wrote:Thanks Mad Dok, an awesome post.

I think I'm going to knock 40k on the head until 6th ed or the new CSM book is released and get that Ogre Army I've had my eye on for a couple of years.

OK look to be a wee bit uber now so that's kool.

How many Ogres do you need in a unit for horde???

6 wide. Unfortunately Ironguts will not be hording ;_; (or at least not too well)

**reds8n**

..I believe so.

The stuff is now up, technically, on the GW site, now if their poxy site would work all would be well in the world

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1491876&rootCatGameStyle=

and for the work blocked..

I'll try and add the rest of the pics when their site works.

These two roguish metal characters come from the talented hands of Juan Diaz and Mike Anderson. They work equally well as display models or as part of a dramatic diorama, perhaps featuring them duelling each other. Notice the gunpowder cartridges hanging from the bandolier, or the duellist on the right kissing the blade of his rapier.

This set contains two metal finely-detailed Citadel miniatures. Models supplied with 20mm x 40mm base.

Web exclusive: these models are available exclusively here at games-workshop.com.

Citizens of the Empire - Merchant & ScribeThis rotund merchant and his trusty scribe provide two more characterful, metal models for the Collectors Range courtesy of Mike Anderson. They are the sorts of characters who might be found in the baggage train of an army.

This set contains two finely-detailed metal Citadel miniatures, an Empire Merchant and an Empire Scribe. Models supplied with 20mm square bases.

Web exclusive: these models are available exclusively here at games-workshop.com.

Citizens of the Empire - Regimental MascotMany regiments in the Empire are famous for the totems or mascots that accompany them to battle. The Regimental Mascot is a metal model that incorporates a one-eyed bear carrying a drum and his ugly handler, who carries a basket of half-eaten bones and a hurdy-gurdy - presumably to provide a musical accompaniment for the drum-playing grizzly.

This set contains one metal finely-detailed Citadel miniature. Models supplied with a 20mm x 40mm base.

Web exclusive: these models are available exclusively here at games-workshop.com.

**NAVARRO**

The combat resolution calculator looks so wicked, as do all the counters etc. Great stuff.

**Scottywan82**

Really neat stuff! TOTALLY out of my price range.

Like the new Empire collectors stuff. Do they do anything?