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LunaHound wrote:I see lion no different then i see cows or pigs. They are all animals with intelligence.

I have accepted the fact that im too weak willed to give up meat , so in a way i still feel sorry for eating all animals.
But i just dont feel particularly sorry just for lions when compared to pig or cow.

You've never met a cow then. They are dumber than a box of rocks.

squilverine wrote:What I don't get is why would anyone want to eat Lion meat? Endangered or not I cant see it being very tasty. Most meat that we consume is bred for the purpose of eating and that alone, therefor it is overfed and underexercised, this produces a softer meat as the muscles are not being worked. This is why we don't eat horses and why a lot of people complain that organic/free range meats are tough and stringy.

Eating Lion (or any other large cats) meat just seems stupid and pointless, the only reason people will eat it is so they can brag to others, sad really.

As for the coment about animals earning their keep, do you take the same veiw with people as well? As far as I can see a Lion (and many other large predatory cats) bring happiness to many paople just by existing. Can you say the same of yourself or should I call the butchers and tell them we have some "longpig" going cheap?

I've personally never found venison to be stringy or tough. Of course, I've never had a problem with what I have noticed, that being the stronger, "gamier" taste of wild meat. You do have a point though that I think many people might be surprised by free range or wild meat if they've never had it. We've become used to industrial meat.

Some of the problems with the sustainability of meat are from overconsumption, not meat itself. Personally, I see hunted meat as being a much more humane source of meat than industrial slaughterhouses.

Back to the topic, I have less of a moral problem with the OT's topic than I don't understand it. I've never eaten a land predator's meat, so I don't know from personal experience, but I've been told that predator meat doesn't taste good. There is plenty of exotic game that has never been endangered in the wild that is quite tasty, such as emu, bison ( critically endangered 100 years ago, now they're farmed), axis deer/chital, etc.

The fact that it is a lion doesn't in and of itself matter, rather, I think the animal's conservation status is what should matter, legally at least. I frankly don't know the current conservation status of lions. Personally, I wouldn't choose to eat a lion.

The problem with making moral judgments about meat is that individuals vary wildly. I have no issue with killing and eating deer, though there are plenty of plentiful, non threatened animals that I would not do so, though others might. I do not think I would choose to hunt bear unless I had urgent need, because I feel that is an animal that is far too much like a human in mind for me to eat. That is a personal choice, however, and I don't criticize those who choose to legally hunt bear.

I apply the same principle to African or exotic game. Elephant populations have recovered enough that hunting is allowed in many African countries ( Actually, it will probably be necessary in the future due to lack of predators), however, I have no desire at all to shoot an elephant. Cape Buffalo is another story though.

squilverine wrote:What I don't get is why would anyone want to eat Lion meat? Endangered or not I cant see it being very tasty. Most meat that we consume is bred for the purpose of eating and that alone, therefor it is overfed and underexercised, this produces a softer meat as the muscles are not being worked. This is why we don't eat horses and why a lot of people complain that organic/free range meats are tough and stringy.

I just want to point out that horse meat is eaten. In Spain we have colt steaks. Not very popular, but it exists.

What the meat tastes like and whether 'tis nobler to eat a lion or suffer the stringy harrows of badly cooked venison is a red herring. And they taste gakk by all accounts.

As has already been pointed out the real issues are conservation, animal welfare and land use.

Redbeard wrote:It isn't like he's going out and killing lions for their meat. The meat exists on lions that are being killed for other reasons. Would you rather see that meat go to waste?

Man shouldn't be kinder than nature. But man should be more intelligent than nature. That means that when man kills an animal, for whatever reason, the most possible use should be made of that animal's passing.

The lions and tigers are being killed principally for their fur/pelts, which is also an abomination. Why the hell do people now require these animal skins when perfectly adequate/superior synthetics exist?

For status, for prestige and for it's own sake. To prove their wealth or to conform to some utterly false notion of the superiority of 'the genuine'.

None of which is an acceptable reason. It is emperor's new clothes mythology and a cult of arrogance.

The use of the meat byproduct of a repulsive practice, to add further status and bravado to the consumption of fast food is still a crass, decadent and morally bankrupt thing to do. People won't travel there to eat lion because it's better for them or it's a great taste, they will travel there, pay over the odds and eat the dead cat because 'Hey buddy! I dun eated me a lion!' in some pale imitation of the notion of certain tribes that eating something installs a part of its power.

Both operations should be made illegal.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Redbeard wrote:It isn't like he's going out and killing lions for their meat. The meat exists on lions that are being killed for other reasons. Would you rather see that meat go to waste?

Man shouldn't be kinder than nature. But man should be more intelligent than nature. That means that when man kills an animal, for whatever reason, the most possible use should be made of that animal's passing.

The lions and tigers are being killed principally for their fur/pelts, which is also an abomination. Why the hell do people now require these animal skins when perfectly adequate/superior synthetics exist?

For status, for prestige and for it's own sake. To prove their wealth or to conform to some utterly false notion of the superiority of 'the genuine'.

None of which is an acceptable reason. It is emperor's new clothes mythology and a cult of arrogance.

The use of the meat byproduct of a repulsive practice, to add further status and bravado to the consumption of fast food is still a crass, decadent and morally bankrupt thing to do. People won't travel there to eat lion because it's better for them or it's a great taste, they will travel there, pay over the odds and eat the dead cat because 'Hey buddy! I dun eated me a lion!' in some pale imitation of the notion of certain tribes that eating something installs a part of its power.

Both operations should be made illegal.

What I'm getting at is that is your moral stance. In other words, you're not concerned about the conservation status of lions, you find the fact that harvesting lion pelts is inherently morally wrong.

Do superior synthetics exist? From an environmental standpoint, does the pollution produced from synthetic fiber manufacture offset the damage done by farming the lions and tanning the hide ( I feel the synthetic is better nowadays than the tanning process, but that is neither here nor there)? Do you really know why they want the lion pelts, and are you sure it is for status? If it is indeed a status issue, then the lion pelts are clearly superior as they are harder to obtain the pelts than a synthetic fiber. I don't see what is false about that, it is just a fact of life.

You can't know why someone wants to eat any particular meat unless they tell you why they're doing it. The fact that I would choose to not eat lion meat doesn't imply I have some universal insight. That is just my opinion.

Be careful or Al Gore will get you!

There is no other reason for someone in the developed world to eat lionmeat except to say they have eaten lion meat. It is decadant posturing.

There are two sources for the meat.

The first is bushmeat. Which probably means big game hunting or even worst, poaching.
If there is a market for pelts then this will become a serious problem.
As the animal becomes scarcer, the value increases and perversely makes the skin more desirable to some and therefore more profitable for the poachers.

A moral stance is conservational on this point.

The other source will be farmed/captive lion carcasses.
As mentioned above, the economic and environmental issues involved don't make sense, and again a moral stance is conservational.

Are lion skins being obtained for clothing or simply to be used as rugs? Either way better synthetic and natural materials are available.
better meat is available.

Any which way you look at this issue, there is no rational justification.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
wow biting satire Agnosto,

Look, I'm a hard core Meatan(A natural reaction to the existence of hardcore Vegans, the universe seeks balance afterall )

As a confirmed meat eater I gotta say that this is a little out there. There are reasons why we don't eat Apex predators and it has nothing to do with them being tough to kill. I'll give you a hint as to why we don't:
Bear meat only tastes worth a flip if the animal spent the majority of its life feeding on fruits and berries. Thats right, vegitarians/fruitarians make for the best eating.

The other reason has to do with predators being more likely to carry diseases like rabies, but with mad cow I can see where that is no longer a valid arguement to those countries that might be succeptable.

focusedfire wrote:Look, I'm a hard core Meatan(A natural reaction to the existence of hardcore Vegans, the universe seeks balance afterall )

As a confirmed meat eater I gotta say that this is a little out there. There are reasons why we don't eat Apex predators and it has nothing to do with them being tough to kill. I'll give you a hint as to why we don't:
Bear meat only tastes worth a flip if the animal spent the majority of its life feeding on fruits and berries. Thats right, vegitarians/fruitarians make for the best eating.

The other reason has to do with predators being more likely to carry diseases like rabies, but with mad cow I can see where that is no longer a valid arguement to those countries that might be succeptable.

Thats gold frazzled. Sioux are American Indians right?

Grignard wrote:What I'm getting at is that is your moral stance. In other words, you're not concerned about the conservation status of lions, you find the fact that harvesting lion pelts is inherently morally wrong.

Do superior synthetics exist? From an environmental standpoint, does the pollution produced from synthetic fiber manufacture offset the damage done by farming the lions and tanning the hide ( I feel the synthetic is better nowadays than the tanning process, but that is neither here nor there)? Do you really know why they want the lion pelts, and are you sure it is for status? If it is indeed a status issue, then the lion pelts are clearly superior as they are harder to obtain the pelts than a synthetic fiber. I don't see what is false about that, it is just a fact of life.

You can't know why someone wants to eat any particular meat unless they tell you why they're doing it. The fact that I would choose to not eat lion meat doesn't imply I have some universal insight. That is just my opinion.

People usually discuss things based upon educated guesses. Your claim that I am unconcerned about the conservation status of lions is bordering on the infuriating given what I've already stated in previous posts. I am disgusted by the practice of wanting to wear/own these furs due to the rarity of the animal and the jaded status symbol, that is more than slightly fueled by the decline of the species.

@ focusedfire: Those cows got CJD by being feed the remains of other animals...

Well this is wrong.

Shaman wrote:Thats gold frazzled. Sioux are American Indians right?

Here's a hint. They gave Custer a headache.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The lions and tigers are being killed principally for their fur/pelts, which is also an abomination. Why the hell do people now require these animal skins when perfectly adequate/superior synthetics exist?

Perfectly adequate according to who? You? Why do you feel justified in forcing your moral code on others? Talk about arrogance.

Both operations should be made illegal.

Oh look, it's a true-believer in the nanny-state. Tell everyone what they can and cannot do all the time. Peer at them through your cameras and make sure that they're not doing anything you personally disagree with.

Why do you hate the right of an individual to decide what is right for themselves?

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:There is no other reason for someone in the developed world to eat lionmeat except to say they have eaten lion meat.

It is decadant posturing.

I have eaten Lion meat. From the same store mentioned in this article. I am higher on the food chain than you are - how's that for your decadent posturing.



When Darwin, and other early naturalists explored the new world, they tried eating just about every animal they found. They belonged to a culinary club dedicated to the practice, in fact. How do you know if something is edible if you haven't tried it? Personally, I like new experiences. I've tried lots of different things, meats, vegetables, exotic fruits. Ever eat Durian? (Don't, trust me). Ever eat cactus? No, you probably have the same spam spam egg and spam every night. I don't believe you have any right to judge what I choose to eat.

Hmmm, why have people think you are an idiot when you can open your mouth and remove all doubt...

Hmmm, the smell of pc pretentiousness in the morning...It smells like.......ass.

Not at all; I just find it sad that such a great country like the USA, so often uses the whole "I'm American and god-damn-it, I have a right to do whatever the hell I want whether it upsets, annoys, destroys, kills, degrades anything because it's my ineffable right to do so and damn anyone else" argument. I don't find it much of a defence for short sightedness and idiocy.

Everything has to eat. Whats the issue?

@Filbert-Why does nationality have to come into play?There is a difference from making a comment about the socialist nanny-state conflicting with the right of self determination and saying "I'm American,,,,ect". The America, "F**k Yeah! mentality has nothing to do with the conversation.

What should be being discussed is, How it is ok to sell food without proof of it "meating"(I make bad pun ) existing health codes?".

Edited out double post/quotes

Its simple if he can go out with is skinning knife and track hunt and kill the lion one on one without getting his socialy and moraly slowed arse bitten of then then let them try it . just see it as Chlorinating the Gene Pool!

CURNOW wrote:Its simple if he can go out with is skinning knife and track hunt and kill the lion one on one without getting his socialy and moraly slowed arse bitten of then then let them try it . just see it as Chlorinating the Gene Pool!

Don't be stupid and an ass at the same time.
Do you hunt down cattle with a knife? Now thats cruel.
Why would he have to hunt down a lion and make the lion suffer?

Well as the lions arnt being farmed. he would need to hunt them and kill them as i wouldnt want to try and eat a live one. and no we dont hunt cows ! but if your after some fresh beef then i suggest you try cottageing i think you'll like it .

What i dont understand is the cow + pig etc etc are domestic livestock , which makes them more ok to eat.
I mean from a scientific view , i understand. Lions are less cost effective to raise , this i agree with you.

What i dont agree with is i feel people are playing god that pretty much doomed a living creature's life by raising them specifically to be slaughtered.
Like "hey , cow and pigs are meant to be born , raised , and killed" , "and lions? aww they are king of the jungle and fluffy kitty , lets not eat them!" <-- that i dont think is fair

In that sense i felt cows and pigs shouldnt be treated as "lesser" beings compared to say a lion.

Sorry if its badly written , im trying to look at the situation from 2 different ways.

I think the main reason is that livestock are farmed for the perpose while a lion is a wild animal . and that the reason he is selling them has nuthing to do with taste or nutrition but just to rase his own image.

CURNOW wrote:I think the main reason is that livestock are farmed for the perpose while a lion is a wild animal . and that the reason he is selling them has nuthing to do with taste or nutrition but just to rase his own image.

I do agree with that no doubt about it.

But what im most curious about is , are people also against eating lions due to they see lion as king of jungle vs when they see cow + pigs , all they see are bacons and juicy steaks.

This is an interesting topic.

I am completely agreed that any animal bred for slaughter, is perfectly all right to eat. Go protest about it if you're angry.

Lions are an odd thing to eat, but in terms of being a by-product of pelt-hunting, I don't see a problem with the butcher shops. My cousin worked in a slaughterhouse, and he was a genuinely great guy. If you have a problem with the pelts, I suggest taking political action in order to have a meaningful statement. Beyond that, I honestly don't give a damn what people eat.

Eating endangered species because they are endangered... is perverted IMO. Lions are not endangered, and there would be nothing strange about breeding them for consumption. People have bred stranger things, and the success of such a project is very solidly placed in the demand for the experience. If you are focused on the hunting of a species, that could be seen as something meant to be protected, focus on that, not the guy eating a lion-burger...

Redbeard wrote:

I have eaten Lion meat. From the same store mentioned in this article. I am higher on the food chain than you are - how's that for your decadent posturing.

How about you and i take a stroll into the woods with a knife each and I'll show you who's higher up the fething food chain instead of you buying pre-slaughtered carnivore and claiming it's your precious moral right...

Better still, exercise your precious liberty, buy a fething plane ticket and go hunt down a lion for yourself with a sharp stick and your vaulted sense of idealistic FREEDOM!!!

MGS wrote:How about you and i take a stroll into the woods with a knife each and I'll show you who's higher up the fething food chain instead of you buying pre-slaughtered carnivore and claiming it's your precious moral right...

Woah...

Better still, exercise your precious liberty, buy a fething plane ticket and go hunt down a lion for yourself with a sharp stick and your vaulted sense of idealistic FREEDOM!!!

I support this sentiment, but getting into a knife fight with an animal armed with sledgehammers spiked by 10 hooks seems completely mad...

This is what lions are armed with.

They can choose two of those weapons, along with a standard bite that can rip arms off, and crush skulls. I hope you aren't suggesting he go... hmmm.

filbert wrote:Not at all; I just find it sad that such a great country like the USA, so often uses the whole "I'm American and god-damn-it, I have a right to do whatever the hell I want whether it upsets, annoys, destroys, kills, degrades anything because it's my ineffable right to do so and damn anyone else" argument. I don't find it much of a defence for short sightedness and idiocy.

If you're talking about me, I'm British, not American. Don't go turning this into some sort of nationalistic pissing match.

Frazzled wrote:
Do you hunt down cattle with a knife? Now thats cruel.
Why would he have to hunt down a lion and make the lion suffer?

This.

Look, the meat exists. Regardless of what you think about hunting animals for their skins (and, really, if it wasn't for our skin-wearing, animal-hunting, meat-eating ancestors, you wouldn't have your ivory tower to sit in and throw stones from), the fact is that there is lion meat at the butcher store. It's far worse, in my opinion, to see that go to waste as a byproduct, than to use it, even if only for a culinary experiment.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
How about you and i take a stroll into the woods with a knife each and I'll show you who's higher up the fething food chain instead of you buying pre-slaughtered carnivore and claiming it's your precious moral right...

Wow, that's about as close to a personal threat as I've ever seen here. Nice language too. You know, there are over 200,000 words in our language, and here you are relying on the same old profanity to express yourself. Rather pathetic. So, what makes you so certain that our trip to the woods with knives would end in you showing me anything?