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Well, not so much shouting ISMK. but yeah. go for it.

I really hate this idea, even if was a Halo fanboy, I would still hate it.

It's just so... generic.

Sorry. I'm not being very friendly.

Anyway, see some of my older posts, your doing them. (not necesarily a bad thing) anyway, I feel that if you work on something soley 40k, and playtest it to death, then update it regularily enough, take suggestions, you can make an idea work well. I still can't see this idea working well. it's just a little overpriced, and extreemly generic.

Well, not so much shouting ISMK. but yeah. go for it.

I really hate this idea, even if was a Halo fanboy, I would still hate it.

It's just so... generic.

Sorry. I'm not being very friendly.

Anyway, see some of my older posts, your doing them. (not necesarily a bad thing) anyway, I feel that if you work on something soley 40k, and playtest it to death, then update it regularily enough, take suggestions, you can make an idea work well. I still can't see this idea working well. it's just a little overpriced, and extreemly generic.

he's gotta have Relentless, he HAS to

having Relentless and and a bunch of options for ranged weapons can make him a killer

and heres a rule that was taken from Kais from the Vidjo Game "Fire Warrior". his stats were featured in an issue of What Dwarf a few years ago
Divine destiny: A great hero of the Tau, Kais seems destined to achieve his mission, despite all the odds. Whenever Kais takes a wound he may allocate it to another Tau model within 2" of himbefore any saving throws are taken. This represents Kais dodging at the final moment or another Firewarrior selflessly sacrificing himself for the Greater Good.

I think that is an excellent rule, I mean, it's not like I ever watch what my soldiers are doing (it's all about the objective and jumping outa the way of Rocket/Plasma Caoonon/Gravity Hammers!) unless I want a ride, oh yeah, that would be cool as well, having a Warthog to roam about, I believe one of the WD crew made one using some Ork Bike and Landspeeder pieces. make it fast with a heavy bolter (the gun is bigger than a heavy stubber) and grenade launcher passenger or something

and by the way, ALL Independant Characters get "move through cover" when they're strutting about solo, no need to give him the rule

MAKE Covenant ! id love to see grunts in 40k

I said i was tryying to make this as close to the game as possible and spartens can jack tanks so if im really following the game they should have some rule that lets them do this. also people stop sayying you dont like the cross over im only ussing the rule system dont you get it!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh i forgot to make some corvernant ill get working on them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i really think you guys are being a bit meen if you want to moan about cross overs do it somwere else and try to help me out ok i am not crossing over with 40k im just using its rule system got it. And if i see anyone else moaning about cross overs i just ignore all their comments on my threads got it!!!!!!!!

Oh, for the love of the Emperor please proofread. It's painful to read your posts, you're sounding like a whiny kid when people bash you. Anyway, on topic.

Hivemind1234 wrote:
weapon range str ap type
Assault rifle 24 4 5 Assault 1 rapid fire
Battle rifle 30 4 4 Assault 1 pinning
Smg (sub machine gun) 24 5 4 Assault 3
Spaten laser 36 7 2 Heavy 1

-Spartan Laser (correct spelling) should probably be closer to a lascannon.
-SMG looks pretty overpowered, a SMG is not a Heavy Bolter, a relentless one at that.
-Assault Rifle needs to be rapid fire. Assault 1 guns aren't going to work for basic troops.


And the "Jacking" rule is pretty overpowered. I see where you're coming from, but people aren't going to like their vehicles turning around and blowing their army to bits. Also, how would it work on transports with passengers? I see that it's only open-topped vehicles as well, but still.

Playtest stuff out, see how they work.

Captain Solon wrote:See valk. my ideas can be well thought out.

I am skeptical.

How about if the Chief has to bash some of the Tank Crews (1 crew for every 50 points of the vehicles worth if the number isn't listed), they always list what the crew members are for some reason

and make the Rocket Launcher have Krak and Frag in the same shot. all players always aim at the ground anyway

WS= if he can take on Hunters at close Range he would be at least WS4
BS= I think BS4 is good if he could re-roll shots if he stood still, it IS easier to shoot that way, especially when it's against a mob of enemies or a Tank
S= flips tanks and can definatly hit hard, 4 again
T= T3 is acceptable, 4 is preferable but the Wounds can make up for it
W= he's no tougher than any other Spartan so W2. If you're only going to play small games then this is appropriate so he won't be so hard to beat
I= really, he hits fast and takes out enemies with a lot of efficiency and can lunge with great speed, I5
A= he uses every weapon at his disposal in melee, guns, grenades. A3 gives him a fair chance atr causing damage as I find him to be quite brutal in close range combat but not so destuctive he has a good chance of beating a Space Marine down
Ld= 10
Sv= 3+ so it can protect him from heavy bolter type rounds but not Krak Missiles
In Sv= 4+ cuz he's got skillz

Relentless= because that's what he does, he never lets the enemy rest and tirelessly crushes his foes
Devine Destiny= like Kais (see prior post), they play the same anyway but the Chief has better Melee. if this is only against the Covenant then you don't need anything to protect you against sneaky psychic powers
Hijack= he gets to try and take out crew members with his melee attacks and a single S6 AP- Krak Grenade. each sucessful kill counts as a glancing hit till they're all gone, then it's his to take, hope it didn't take too much damage
Quick Step (or some such name)= gives him the Al'Rahem "Like the Wind" move, which means he can shoot in his shooting phase then run but still no assaulting (not sure if it should be combined with re-rolling for standing still)
Master of Arms= I really liked that rule, but maybe it should just be for enemies he and his squad took down in hand to hand and doesn't need to be in base contact.
Iron Will= 3+ get back to his feet and keep fighting! even from Instant Death! OK, maaabe not, but it's sounds right in my head

Spartan Laser
24" S9 AP1 Heavy 1 (only 5 shots)
because they are very capable of blowing almost anything apart in one shot as long as you don't make the vehicles have much armour better than 12. you should totally use the Apocalyse "Structure Points" so vehicles can be damaged by Grenades but woun't blow to smithereens so easily

Grunts would only be Toughness 2, I mean really, they're so easy to take down and they're certainly no where near as tough as a marine
give them a Rending S3 Plasma Pistol to represent the charged shot but I don't know how you're going to incorporate the suicide Grunts

this all seems like a lot but it's the font sizes fault

can you tell I like what this guy is doing? I like this thread, I used to use Warhammer rules for my Lego soldiers to see if the superior Batlord with his Soldiers, Skeletons and Witch can take on the Good King, his Knights and Wizard

S/T 6 is WAY to high, but 3 is too low. The guy can literally lift tanks and endure sniper rounds to the face, so I think 4 is about right.

Im starting to get the idea this is gonna be a lot harder than i thought and if im going through all this trouble i might as well just make an intire game system of my own this is hiver sighning out.

Lotet wrote:How about if the Chief has to bash some of the Tank Crews (1 crew for every 50 points of the vehicles worth if the number isn't listed), they always list what the crew members are for some reason

and make the Rocket Launcher have Krak and Frag in the same shot. all players always aim at the ground anyway

WS= if he can take on Hunters at close Range he would be at least WS4
BS= I think BS4 is good if he could re-roll shots if he stood still, it IS easier to shoot that way, especially when it's against a mob of enemies or a Tank
S= flips tanks and can definatly hit hard, 4 again
T= T3 is acceptable, 4 is preferable but the Wounds can make up for it
W= he's no tougher than any other Spartan so W2. If you're only going to play small games then this is appropriate so he won't be so hard to beat
I= really, he hits fast and takes out enemies with a lot of efficiency and can lunge with great speed, I5
A= he uses every weapon at his disposal in melee, guns, grenades. A3 gives him a fair chance atr causing damage as I find him to be quite brutal in close range combat but not so destuctive he has a good chance of beating a Space Marine down
Ld= 10
Sv= 3+ so it can protect him from heavy bolter type rounds but not Krak Missiles
In Sv= 4+ cuz he's got skillz

Relentless= because that's what he does, he never lets the enemy rest and tirelessly crushes his foes
Devine Destiny= like Kais (see prior post), they play the same anyway but the Chief has better Melee. if this is only against the Covenant then you don't need anything to protect you against sneaky psychic powers
Hijack= he gets to try and take out crew members with his melee attacks and a single S6 AP- Krak Grenade. each sucessful kill counts as a glancing hit till they're all gone, then it's his to take, hope it didn't take too much damage
Quick Step (or some such name)= gives him the Al'Rahem "Like the Wind" move, which means he can shoot in his shooting phase then run but still no assaulting (not sure if it should be combined with re-rolling for standing still)
Master of Arms= I really liked that rule, but maybe it should just be for enemies he and his squad took down in hand to hand and doesn't need to be in base contact.
Iron Will= 3+ get back to his feet and keep fighting! even from Instant Death! OK, maaabe not, but it's sounds right in my head

Spartan Laser
24" S9 AP1 Heavy 1 (only 5 shots)
because they are very capable of blowing almost anything apart in one shot as long as you don't make the vehicles have much armour better than 12. you should totally use the Apocalyse "Structure Points" so vehicles can be damaged by Grenades but woun't blow to smithereens so easily

Grunts would only be Toughness 2, I mean really, they're so easy to take down and they're certainly no where near as tough as a marine
give them a Rending S3 Plasma Pistol to represent the charged shot but I don't know how you're going to incorporate the suicide Grunts

this all seems like a lot but it's the font sizes fault

can you tell I like what this guy is doing? I like this thread, I used to use Warhammer rules for my Lego soldiers to see if the superior Batlord with his Soldiers, Skeletons and Witch can take on the Good King, his Knights and Wizard

I humbly disagree.

WS: I guess 4 isn't too much of a stretch but I still prefer 3. I suppose they trained him better than a guardsman though :b
BS: 4 is good, but the reroll thing is nonsene. In that case I demand every unit gets it for standing still.
S: 4, agreed (due to armor mainly)
T: 3. Why? He's a pretty much normal person under the armor (and armor =/= toughness)
W: 2 sounds right but I like 3 simply to put him with more HQs up there.
I: Yeah... I really doubt being able to lunge makes him as fast as Eldar (who move so fast normal people can hardly keep up). Bump it down to 4 there.
A: And so does everything. Assault is an abstraction which specifically mentions using grenades, guns, bayonets, etc. So 2 attacks to keep him in line with a slightly better person.
Ld: 10
Sv: - THE ARMOR SUCKS without the shield. "Oh no normal bullets kill me just as easily as plasma without my shield!" MAYBE a 6+
Inv: 4++ due to shield and not wanting to make up complicated rules.

Relentless: By your argument every space marine should be relentless.
Devine destiny makes him essentially invincible (throw him with some grots [in theory of course])
I like your hijack better, and for the purposes of the OP it could work for his game, but in normal 40k this would STILL be OP.
Why does he get quickstep?
I must have missed it, what's master of arms?
Iron Will... represents nothing from either the Halo books or games... (unless you count reloading your saved game)

Spartan Laser does not need pecial rules. Just make it a lascannon.

Grunts: Well im arguing about Master Chief right now.

Che-Vito wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:See valk. my ideas can be well thought out.

I am skeptical.

I concur.

Captain Solon wrote:See valk. my ideas can be well thought out.

I'm sorry, couldn't control myself.

CrazyThang wrote:I humbly disagree.

WS: I guess 4 isn't too much of a stretch but I still prefer 3. I suppose they trained him better than a guardsman though :b
BS: 4 is good, but the reroll thing is nonsene. In that case I demand every unit gets it for standing still.
S: 4, agreed (due to armor mainly)
T: 3. Why? He's a pretty much normal person under the armor (and armor =/= toughness)
W: 2 sounds right but I like 3 simply to put him with more HQs up there.
I: Yeah... I really doubt being able to lunge makes him as fast as Eldar (who move so fast normal people can hardly keep up). Bump it down to 4 there.
A: And so does everything. Assault is an abstraction which specifically mentions using grenades, guns, bayonets, etc. So 2 attacks to keep him in line with a slightly better person.
Ld: 10
Sv: - THE ARMOR SUCKS without the shield. "Oh no normal bullets kill me just as easily as plasma without my shield!" MAYBE a 6+
Inv: 4++ due to shield and not wanting to make up complicated rules.

Relentless: By your argument every space marine should be relentless.
Devine destiny makes him essentially invincible (throw him with some grots [in theory of course])
I like your hijack better, and for the purposes of the OP it could work for his game, but in normal 40k this would STILL be OP.
Why does he get quickstep?
I must have missed it, what's master of arms?
Iron Will... represents nothing from either the Halo books or games... (unless you count reloading your saved game)

Spartan Laser does not need pecial rules. Just make it a lascannon.

Grunts: Well im arguing about Master Chief right now.

I suppose everything you said about the stats seems right

the only thing I feel he has to have above all else is Relentless because he's too cool to stand still to aim a rocket launcher. Space Marines do need to aim but the Chief is deceptivly smooth on his feet, anything short of a defensive gun emplacement can be used with ease
Master of Arms is the ability to take your opponents weapons as Spartans are trained how to fight with every weapon (such as the Energy Swords) and drive every vehicle (well, Tank size and below I assume)
I still believe the Spartan Laser should be AP1
and yes, I did consider Iron Will purly for the fact that he reloads checkpoints. I guess I only see it that way because there's no loading screen, especially because I always play multiplayer games with my brother so I can respawn mid-game

For some reason I always forget that Lascannons are ap 2 :b . I suppose relentless wouldn't be too bad, but I'm thinking more like Dark Reapers, they don't have relentless but are practically mobile weapons platforms (having powered limb supports that cut down recoil a ton) but I see your rationale as well.

Master of arms is cool, but in theory (once again) almost everything "should" have this. Whether or not they would due to creed (not the tactical genius) or tactics is what would determine whether or not the rule would apply in theory. Just saying, IG could likely have this (though the lasgun is holy and whatnot and the Uplifting Primer... threatens miss use and the like...)

Give him WS 3 S4 T4 W2

why WS3? I mean really, when he swings he goes through the guard with a powerful bashing move. try to think of how hard it would be to block an attack from him, when he swings he knows he's going to hit unless you got skills

My bad, i meant to put WS 4. I wanted to reduce it by one because I though WS 5 was a bit too much. A Spartan and a SM seem to be the exact same thing

SanguinaryGuard wrote:My bad, i meant to put WS 4. I wanted to reduce it by one because I though WS 5 was a bit too much. A Spartan and a SM seem to be the exact same thing

PLEASE do not open this can of worms.

On topic, STR would signify bashing through stuff, not WS. Half-hazardly bashing around would imply a lower WS. Think about it: Howling Banshees (and such) fight with extreme grace and precision. Space Marines fight... with awesome fighting skillz. It's like saying someone from Call of Duty would have WS4 because the knife lets you lunge forward and home-in slightly. Hell even when he is using a sword he just makes broad sweeps and upward cuts.

every vidjo game fails to represent finess in melee except with animated grab attacks and such. besides, he isn't flailing his weapons in melee, he know what he's doing plus "he doesn't afraid of anything" which helps A LOT in hand to hand. how about the WS4 and A2 just represents how efficient he is at close range with all the weapons at his disposal. he doesn't use grenades and bayonets like Imperial Guardsmen, his grenades go off fast and when he lands his blows it can stun enemies with the impact which is enough to finish them off through whatever other means he has at his disposal, of course there's no stunning in multiplayer.

man, I lkove pointless arguments, they're the best kind and this forum points them out as pointless the second least of all I've visited

Look he is a pre-heresy Spacemarine... done.

exact same stats... and save, just give him a 5+ invulnerable save to represent shielding.

Lotet wrote:most 1st person video games fails to represent finess in melee except with animated grab attacks and such. besides, he isn't flailing his weapons in melee, he know what he's doing plus "he doesn't afraid of anything" which helps A LOT in hand to hand. how about the WS4 and A2 just represents how efficient he is at close range with all the weapons at his disposal. he doesn't use grenades and bayonets like Imperial Guardsmen, his grenades go off fast and when he lands his blows it can stun enemies with the impact which is enough to finish them off through whatever other means he has at his disposal, of course there's no stunning in multiplayer.

man, I lkove pointless arguments, they're the best kind and this forum points them out as pointless the second least of all I've visited

I would suggest leaving: "he doesn't afraid of anything" out of any argument, serious or otherwise. Believe me, I love me some doesn't afraid, but still... it has it's place.

The bolded part I corrected. A lot of 3rd persons have very smooth hand to hand. I understand what you mean and that it really just boils down to "I have one animation for swinging! Yay!" but at least some games add some variety. A free mod for HL2 that I just cannot remember than name of right now was medieval combat in first person and the sword swings and such were very varied and looked quite good. Besides I cannot remember anthign in the books saying he was an exceptional hand to hand combatant. Think about it: a guardsman is a very well trained (usually) normal person. That training gives him WS3. He fights with (and is trained to fight with) bayonet, pistol, rifle butt, knife, etc. So Master Chief, a slightly better human in armor that is (in strength at least) equivilant to a strong carapace armor, who was very well trained... would probably still have WS3. Now, for the sake of making him an HQ I would think 4 would not be too much of a stretch. Let's just say, if 40k did half stats he would probably have 3.5 WS.

I forgot to mention that determination counts as well. it's why Orks and Khorne Beserkers have such a WS and why Imperial Guard Veterans are still WS3, it because the Veterans worry about being skewered but the others try to flatten you (it's also why they have more attacks). I'm sure if the Chief was pitted against someone in 1vs1 combat you would see the flaws in his attacks but really, in battle against WS3 enemies I believe he'd do quite well and I don't think he'd be overwhelmed by WS4 opponents in close range. there are a few videos of the Chief (and other Spartans) displaying thier melee skills, more than enough to avoid a bayonet

and with the whole Energy Sword "broad swings" he actually does put some skill into it which is only apparent when another person with an Energy Sword (or Gravity Hammer) swings, they can block each other, no WS3 person could do anything more than try to kill them before they kill you, which is what I typically imagine Guard Sergents to do (more heroic Sergents from books are likly WS4)

Valkyrie wrote:

You think MC is tougher, stronger, faster than a Terminator, with better weapon and combat skills, and you also think he should be as durable as Marneus Calgar? (4 wounds?)

One thing I've noticed on here is that people generall try to avoid crossing over genres such as 40K, Star Wars, Halo, etc. It's very hard to combine them without making it over or underpowered.

Also, you may want to brush up on your English skills.

TROLL!!!

Lotet wrote:I forgot to mention that determination counts as well. it's why Orks and Khorne Beserkers have such a WS and why Imperial Guard Veterans are still WS3, it because the Veterans worry about being skewered but the others try to flatten you (it's also why they have more attacks). I'm sure if the Chief was pitted against someone in 1vs1 combat you would see the flaws in his attacks but really, in battle against WS3 enemies I believe he'd do quite well and I don't think he'd be overwhelmed by WS4 opponents in close range. there are a few videos of the Chief (and other Spartans) displaying thier melee skills, more than enough to avoid a bayonet

and with the whole Energy Sword "broad swings" he actually does put some skill into it which is only apparent when another person with an Energy Sword (or Gravity Hammer) swings, they can block each other, no WS3 person could do anything more than try to kill them before they kill you, which is what I typically imagine Guard Sergents to do (more heroic Sergents from books are likly WS4)

I fail to see any of this rationale. Determination? Imperial Guardsmen are VERY determined, expecially Vets (you basically have to be in a universe were anything [rather, everything] would rather kill you then talk out your problems). Khorne beserkers on the other hand are probably not so much determined as driven into a combat frenzy by bloodlust. Not overwhelmed by WS4 opponents? Tell that to a Warlock, Banshee, or even a space marine. I don't really know of any videos where he displays his melee skills but I have not played Halo 3 so maybe they are all there? And a WS 3 person can't block? Just swing randomly and hope to kill first? I don't see this. Oh and he puts skill into the weapon in a very rare instance (specifically to block or parry another melee weapon) he never actually displays crazy combat prowess or he would be moving more, swinging more accurately, such and such.

Disclaimer:
I don't have anything against MC. I think he is a boring character and that's about it. What DOES bother me is how everyone assumes he is magically awesome and super killtastic. Seriously. Take a minute and think about Space Marines (for example) and compare MC to the universe. He would not even touch a SM in stats.

CrazyThang wrote:I don't have anything against MC. I think he is a boring character and that's about it. What DOES bother me is how everyone assumes he is magically awesome and super killtastic. Seriously. Take a minute and think about Space Marines (for example) and compare MC to the universe. He would not even touch a SM in stats.

I agree with that. I don't know where Halo fan boys get the idea that master chief is super great; in game the standard marine guys can take more shots than you can (at least on legendary), that one sargeant that the game follows is literally invincible so he's much better than Master Chief. The books say that spartans are better trained soldiers in super armor, but yet that super armor still doesn't stand up to covenant weapons in the books, as for the story line you Chief really doesn't do anything super spectacular ( i stopped caring after halo 2 so forgive me if he single handly owned the universe in 3 or wars or anyother sequel) he seems to just be really good at not being dead.

Joetaco wrote: Bungie seems to just be really good at keeping MC alive to keep the money flowing.

fixed it for you.

Hold on now, let's not turn this into a bashing MC thread. This is about fixing someone's rules.

I wasn't bashing him I was just pointing out the obvious.......

Valkyrie wrote:

You think MC is tougher, stronger, faster than a Terminator, with better weapon and combat skills, and you also think he should be as durable as Marneus Calgar? (4 wounds?)

One thing I've noticed on here is that people generall try to avoid crossing over genres such as 40K, Star Wars, Halo, etc. It's very hard to combine them without making it over or underpowered.

Also, you may want to brush up on your English skills.

I can see your point about Master Chief seeming a bit strong. But compared to the space marine power the Mjonler (Sorry can't remember the spelling) looks like a loin cloth.