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asimo77 wrote:@Blazing Ghost

They could always retcon that Also hasn't it been confirmed that GK are getting a dex? Either way I think it gives GK are more coherent theme

...
What kind of "more coherent theme" do they need?
They're the militant branch of the Ordo Malleus, the Paladins of the Imperium of Man cleansing the Daemonic taint wherever it rears its ugly head and arriving Just In The Nick of Time to save the day or to unleash the ultimate wrath of a vengeful God-Emperor on the unholy forces that have tainted his domain.

I guess I just want the spotlight on the Inq themselves for once.

Which is stupid. Inquisitors aren't a frontline combat force, as I've hammered at time and time and time again. They're an investigative force. It's even in their name. They're "Inquisitors". They're inquisitive. I don't know how else to put this.

Do they occasionally attach themselves to frontline combat units? Sure. Do some of them have their own personal military forces? Yep. But that's the exception to the rule, not the norm. At the very most:
They should be a unit choice in the Imperial Guard book that can also be taken in a Codex: Space Marines force.

I always thought SOB should be more attached to the Ecclesiarchy in general.

...They are. In fact, the Sisters of Battle list in Codex: Witch Hunters can be fielded with no Inquisitors, whatsoever, and be pretty damned effective(unlike the Grey Knights...who are a symbiotic relation with the Ordo Malleus--and wouldn't exist without them).

In fact don't the Inq police the Ecclesiarchy?

The Inquisition polices everyone.

Having the DH with GK and WH with SOB/Ecclesiarchy dilutes the uniqueness of what I consider to be 3 separate factions (the Inq should be mixed) that each have a strong enough theme to create their own book.

None of them "have enough theme" to create their own book". The Ordo Xenos would be a completely toothless organization without the Deathwatch Kill-Teams it can field, the Ordo Malleus would be a miserable failure without the Grey Knights...and well, nobody cares about the Ordo Hereticus or Sisters of Battle. Those two entities are completely useless on a battlefield, and are more of a "operating in the shadows" kind of deal. When Cults(the specific purview of the Ordo Hereticus/Sisters of Battle) get to the point where they're starting up full out wars, the Guard are involved and doing the heavy lifting.

So there's another two entities that can be rolled into the Guard Codex as a form of unit choices.

Plus all 3 Ordos in one book could be cool, they could have tons of wargear options for inquisitors, no two should be alike. For the ordos throw in something like Chaos' marks but expanded. If Deathwatch are in the dex then they have a neat army that can field GEQ's, MEQ's, interesting and flavorful characters with retinues and wargear out the ass. In other words small unique groups of units that have different tasks and abilities all with one purpose:HUNTING!!

Er...not really. To reach your goal of "no two should be alike", you're going to have to do a metric buttload of playtesting and figuring out the impact of every possible combination of wargear/psyker abilities, etc.

And that's before you even consider adding in more and more units to the codex besides the Inquisitors themselves.

I like the concept of the Vindicare. I love me some snipers. Just don't want to take an Inq. for it. Unless there was an Inq. book ofc.

Grey Templar wrote:

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Grey Knights are the militant arm of the Ordos Malleus, the Daemonhunters. It would make no sense to separate them.

And for WH, just call them SOB...

This is one of those things that is pretty true.

The GKs operate alongside the Ordo Malleus. they do not answer to them. they are still Space Marines and highly independent at that.

Half-true, half-not. Grey Knights don't go gallivanting around the galaxy starting up crusades for fun, like the Astartes do. They, in fact, rarely see combat outside of being called in by Inquisitorial Mandates or really, really, really highly connected Crusade Commanders to deal with Daemonic threats.

The Gks used to have their own codex before the inquisition came along and fuddled it up.

The Grey Knights never had their own Codex.

They had a single unit, the Grey Knight Terminator Squad.

Besides, as it is now the GKs can stand alone. the Inquisition can't really without being overpriced Guard.

And both of these situations are completely asinine. Grey Knights aren't really a unit that should ever be fielded, outside of against Daemons or Chaos Marines/Traitor Guard mixes with Daemonic support.

+9000 to Mechanicus codex. Would be different and wouldn't require much fluff writing.

Not sure how different it would be to anything currently existing, frankly.'
Wacky, weird machinery? That's the purview of Orks.
Automaton troops mixed with high technology bases and weird weaponry? That's the purview of the Necrons.
Being able to flood the field with "elite" carapace armored troops and vehicles? Purview of Guard.
Etc, etc.

Well Kanluwen you seem to not care much for the inq and I do, (and that's fine). I won't try to convince you that you should like what I like.

"Er...not really. To reach your goal of "no two should be alike", you're going to have to do a metric buttload of playtesting and figuring out the impact of every possible combination of wargear/psyker abilities, etc. And that's before you even consider adding in more and more units to the codex besides the Inquisitors themselves."

I will however say that this is kind of saying something will fail before you try it. I mean theoretically shouldn't GW do a "metric boatload" of playtesting before makng any codex?

edit: actually after reading your prevous posts a bit more you shoot down the WH, DH, GK, =I=, and Ad-Mech do you just not like diversity or something?

could this be the precursor to my first internetz argument?!?! The suspense! The drama! The srs bizness!

Fiend wrote:I vote Mechanicus as well. Pure and simple. Although the idea of an entire Imperial world dedicated to parking vehicles is very enticing.

That being said, a new alien race would be cool. Something more organic, and living. As of right now only tyranids are all organic, but something like that but less mindless would be interesting. To me anyways.

I do like the Ordo Xenos idea, but it shouldn't be a new book. It should be in the ONE book for the Inquisition.

What about the Q'Orl. They seem organic but less mindless.

Codex Thyrrus would be intresting but will never happen as they would have only niche appeal.

As for races that have already existed in the past I would be happy to see Codex: Genestealer cult even if its just a .PDF Codex and the same goes for Exodites I miss the Space Wood Elves .

Over all I would like to see Codex Demiurg. I'm resigned that GW and the inquisition are probably in the process of buying up all the old Squat models off ebay and melting them down and systematiclly going back in the books and removing any refrence to their existence. But a Codex Demiurg would allow me to field a force of Space Beards again. (theres not enough Beards in 40K these day Space Wolves Excepted). This probably wont happen as they would be too scared of people taking the codex and using it as a 'counts as' Squat army list .

asimo77 wrote:Well Kanluwen you seem to not care much for the inq and I do, (and that's fine). I won't try to convince you that you should like what I like.

I love the Inquisition. It's just that they are not a battlefield entity. Do you see the FBI in Afghanistan, on the frontlines with the US Army or Marine Corps?
No. Because it's not their role.
The Inquisition is, again, an investigative and advisory force that has a limited military capability for extremely dire circumstances.
We're talking about circumstances would have to be so friggin' dire that doomsayers proclaiming the End Times would be looked at like they were stating the bloody obvious.

asimo77 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
"Er...not really. To reach your goal of "no two should be alike", you're going to have to do a metric buttload of playtesting and figuring out the impact of every possible combination of wargear/psyker abilities, etc. And that's before you even consider adding in more and more units to the codex besides the Inquisitors themselves."

I will however say that this is kind of saying something will fail before you try it. I mean theoretically shouldn't GW do a "metric boatload" of playtesting before making any codex?

It is something that will fail before you try it. There's a difference between "a metric boatload of playtesting", and what would be required for writing individual rules for some dozens and dozens of options for each character.

edit: actually after reading your previous posts a bit more you shoot down the WH, DH, GK, =I=, and Ad-Mech do you just not like diversity or something?

I don't like ridiculous attempts to shoehorn things in just so people can say "Hai guyz! Diversity! Yay!".

"Witchhunters, Daemonhunters, and GK"? They all fall under the Inquisition umbrella. There's no need to branch them all out, and there's no need to even mention them as distinctive entities in terms of codices.

Do they have different roles and things to oversee? Definitely.

Grey Knights and the Ordo Malleus are not common, at all, to see just wandering about the Imperium of Man. They tend to be centered around areas where incursions from Daemonic entities and Warp Rifts are common. It should come as no surprise that the largest concentration of Grey Knights, outside of their fortress monastery on Titan, is in the Cadian sector near the Eye of Terror.

Deathwatch and the Ordo Xenos are, by contrast, fairly common--given that the Deathwatch are brought up from every single Space Marine Chapter in existence except the Grey Knights and are commonly deployed to shore up defenses that need the aid of skilled troops who know their enemies or investigate reports of Xenos infestations. They're also pretty commonly deployed with the Inquisitors of the Ordo Xenos to launch raids to capture live specimens of xenos, acquire xenos equipment for study, etc etc.

Sisters of Battle and the Ordo Hereticus are...well, let's just say "you can't throw a rock without hitting them" if the fluff is correct. They're friggin' everywhere, but that doesn't make them actually useful in a combat role. Sisters of Battle, while being heavily armored and equipped, are also fanatical zealots who prefer to get up close and personal with flame weaponry and to kill the heretic at all costs.
That doesn't translate well to y'know...ordered battle lines or strategies.
Hereticus Inquisitors? Think of "The Spanish Inquisition" and you're not too far off. They think it's their business to be in everyone else's business...and are so commonly wrong in their accusations that they should have any and all authority revoked.

Anybody asking for another SPESS MUHREEN army of any kind at all just needs to stop. Seriously, stop. I don't care how unique and special a snowflake you think your idea is, there's already too damn many of them. Space marine codexes alone almost equal the number of every single other codex in the game of any type.

Enough is enough.

Can we group in CSM into that?

I'm tired of CSM players complaining about how weak it is when there are many other dexs that need it more. Wait your turn!

"I love the Inquisition. It's just that they are not a battlefield entity. Do you see the FBI in Afghanistan, on the frontlines with the US Army or Marine Corps? No. Because it's not their role. The Inquisition is, again, an investigative and advisory force that has a limited military capability for extremely dire circumstances.
We're talking about circumstances would have to be so friggin' dire that doomsayers proclaiming the End Times would be looked at like they were stating the bloody obvious."

Ok I see where you are coming from here.

"It is something that will fail before you try it. There's a difference between "a metric boatload of playtesting", and what would be required for writing individual rules for some dozens and dozens of options for each character."

This is all hypothetical stuff really so I don't think it does either of us any good to comment on it unless we start brainstorming rules and stuff. Though generally speaking with the right amount of effort I don't see why it isn't possible to have a decent amount of gear. Besides who cares about balance anyway I mean I do play necrons

"I don't like ridiculous attempts to shoehorn things in just so people can say "Hai guyz! Diversity! Yay!"."

All those factions exist in the universe so it isn't shoehorning

I mean all the roles of the Inq you stated make sense in the fluff at least. I wouldnt mind if GK, the Inq, etc stayed in the shadows and all that. Personally I don't feel that having the army on tabletop really messes with the fluff, usually inconsistency starts at the other end. For example SM being awesomsauce and killing everything no problem isn't translated into tt. Gauss weaponry not being able to destroy vehicles in tt isn't transported to the fluff (I hope this all makes sense). Then on top of that you can have weird scenarios in tt like let's say a 2v1 CSM and IG versus Eldar. I can understand if you feel that having the inq fill a battlefield role in tt would diminish their fluff (which if I'm not mistaken is where you take the most issue), personally I feel like what goes in in tt has no effect on the fluff so have your GK fight everything or field your Inq on the frontlines, what's that your friend plays ork? Well he can be your ally!

Finally I do want to add that in no way do I mean to offend you (sometimes my "sense" of humour gets me in trouble) it's just some things get lost in translation so to speak.

Just because the factions exist...doesn't mean that they're suitable for battlefield roles. That's what I'm meaning with "shoehorning". Things don't need a tabletop presence just because they're in the fluff.

Space Marines are sorta toned down, just for game balance purposes, and the fact that the tabletop(as a whole) isn't representing "an entire war"...but one small corner of it.
Gauss weaponry is perfectly able to destroy vehicles in the fluff, it just takes awhile and some luck.

Guard and CSM, also, isn't *that* unusual of a "match-up". There are Traitor Guard Regiments, after all.

"Gauss weaponry is perfectly able to destroy vehicles in the fluff, it just takes awhile and some luck."

I meant in tt terms gauss weaponry don't vaporize vehicles in a flash due to 5th ed changes. However, as far as I know they still are quite fearsome in the fluff. Probably just a bad example, but my point was tt isn't meant to be too fluffy (or it would be impossible to balance) so on that assumption I wouldn't mind seeing a cool facet of the 40k fiction on the battlefield even if it normally does not do this. I mean the fact the WH and DH codex exists seem to suggest otherwise, there is even a section in the dex that says WH would fight X because.....

"Guard and CSM, also, isn't *that* unusual of a "match-up". There are Traitor Guard Regiments, after all. "

Well I meant something like cadians but if that isn't wonky enough. How about SOB and Nids teaming up on Black Templars?

"Just because the factions exist...doesn't mean that they're suitable for battlefield roles. That's what I'm meaning with "shoehorning". Things don't need a tabletop presence just because they're in the fluff."

I believe the Inq is cool enough and fleshed out enough to be desirable to field. It's not like I want Sisters of Silence or the Custodes, the Inq is a big part of the fluff. In the end I think A and you think B and that's that I suppose.

Not to mention this may or may not be thread derailment.

AdMech, easily.

Or Lost & The Damned.

Kanluwen wrote:It wouldn't give them "the room to do alot of new projects" at all. Really, it wouldn't. With that out of the way...

Space Skaven would be ridiculously stupid, considering the Hrud are existing(omg! space skaven!)--and they're basically wiped out barring a few large 'Migrations'.

Space Slaan exist, but were...again, basically wiped out.

Lost and the Damned? Really? What happened to "codex consolation"? They're Spiky Imperial Guard Lite for the most part, barring some eclectic options that you can do with 'Counts As'.

Space Vampires? No. Just no.
Adeptus Mechanicus? No, again.

This thread's about what Codex we would like, not how much of a WRONGBADFUN you are Kan.

Piss off and let people who want to discuss new armies discuss new armies. If you don't like new armies and can't add anything constructive beyond "No, again", then go away and stop trolling the thread.

Whilst I don't agree with the "piss off" comment -- which we'll put down to an Australian vernacular rather than a really obvious breach of posting etiquette -- the essential topic at hand is pretty much a perfectly legitimate thread where people are wishlisting for a new codex for a faction or army they'd like to see.

Whilst the points raised are, generally, quiet correct with regards to turnaround time, workload etc etc this isn't really the place for that discussion. It is fine to, for example, say that you don't think "faction X" deserves a codex because of 1/2/3/, but let's not derail the thread with massive arguments back and forth on this.


... Whilst I would indeed love some AD mech goodness...

.. one thing I would be very interested in seeing ( and there is no way in hell it will ever happen, hell is never going to be that chilly) is lists, models, fluff etc etc for Eldar armies prior to their fall. Ideally when they were engaged in their war against the Necrontyr, with models and rules for multiple C'tan, war machines, Eldar (demi) gods..the whole gamut.

ad-mech

ad-ast

I agree with kamlumen for the most part. I feel GW should make a new imperial allies book. Put all INQ. forces and allies under one simple book to use. This includes hereticus, malleus, xenos, GK and assassins maybe admech(i dont know much about them so i cant say if they need a whole book or not) and hell why not throw in legion of the damned. Make the sisters a seperate force and update them with maybe a few more support options other than one heavy ranged tank.

on a side note something that would be cool to see is loxatl warriors from the guant's ghosts series. totally would hate to face them on the tabletop if i was anything but power armored. they are just pretty badass and have cool descriptions as well as background, bigass gecko wolves with motorized fletchette cannons hardwired into their brain, in it for the money and the bloodshed.

as far as a new codex that doesn't exist already in some form its hard to think of one. as has been said before, every playstyle has been covered already. there are already a lot of choices that can be assembled in a huge variety of ways. i think theres enough already personally. just update and smooth things out, like DE, necron, sisters tau and the imperial allies i listed above.

I think that:
A) update Assassins codex (if it still exists)
B) bring back squats
and C) bring back the zoats

Also I heard that there are 2 other classes of Assassins listed in the book Nemesis...

Going on a limb here, but what about some good demons? We have our Chaos powers based on bad emotions. We could go the opposite. Although, it does sound kinda lame but the idea of angel type creatures does sound cool to me. It would sure bring out some different looking mini's to paint up.

that would be if they have the Star Child theory come to fruition and the Emperor becomes a Warp god in truth. it would work out better as a portion of the new Inquisition dex.

which would be cool, but it would change the entire feel of the 40k universe.

Please almighty 40k gods, don't let GW put out another army until they have a handle on keeping the ones they have up to date.

Codex: The 13th Company

Although I would accept Codex: Lost and the Damned with a nice section for them inside.

...Why in the hell would a "13th Company" army list be in a Chaos/Renegade Guardsmen book?

If nothing else, 13th Company should be somewhere it makes sense.

Y'know...the Space Wolves Codex.

All honesty...I was surprised they didn't have a Rune Priest character who would allow for Wulfen and have the Psyker powers that we saw with the 13th Company.

Oh you mean where the 13th Company was NOT in a Space Wolves codex and instead were included with IG, the Lost and the Damned, and Eldar?

I agree, piss off Kanu, and I am not AUS.

Kan: I think he was saying 13th co, or Lost and the damned.

Open your crusading eyes; the word "although" definitely separates the 2 concepts.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Kan: I think he was saying 13th co, or Lost and the damned.

Open your crusading eyes; the word "although" definitely separates the 2 concepts.

Not really what I got from it.

Brother Ramses wrote:Codex: The 13th Company

Although I would accept Codex: Lost and the Damned with a nice section for them inside.

That's what he stated.

Not "I would accept a Codex: Lost and the Damned" instead.

Brother Ramses wrote:Oh you mean where the 13th Company was NOT in a Space Wolves codex and instead were included with IG, the Lost and the Damned, and Eldar?

You mean where the 13th Company was an army list and a few pages of modeling tips in a published campaign book, NOT an Army Book proper?

There's a big difference in the two concepts. 13th Company, just like Lost and the Damned, Ulthwe Strike Forces, etc are not distinctive enough to warrant an army book all to themselves. At least not without some seriously major reworking and BSing to fill in the gaps.

All the lists from the Eye of Terror Campaign could easily be worked into the current codices, with some clever usage of characters and special rules.

off topic: how many times each week is this topic going to come up? I'm not trying to be an ass, it just seems like it's always coming around.

Anywho, on topic. Demiurg....definitely Demiurg

Demiurg would definitely be interesting. But would they be their own specific army...or a new unit type in the Tau Empire book?

Kanluwen wrote:Guard and CSM, also, isn't *that* unusual of a "match-up". There are Traitor Guard Regiments, after all.

And they're a hell of a lot more commonplace than CSMs.

That's what LatD is a decent idea, although personally I'd prefer a combined Chaos codex for CSM, Daemons, and Traitor Guard, with the option to take any of the above as a single unified army or combine them, based on preference. What I don't want is a unified Chaos codex, elements of which CANNOT be taken piecemeal, effectively castrating my Daemons.

Doctadeth wrote:ad-ast

Um. What? I have to assume you mean "Adeptus Astartes" here, and - newsflash, dude - that's Space Marines. Do we need more Space Marines?

(We don't.)

Kanluwen wrote:Demiurg would definitely be interesting. But would they be their own specific army...or a new unit type in the Tau Empire book?

If current fluff is to be believed (current fluff is never to be believed), they'd be part of the new Tau codex.

Honestly I hope they're both - a limited, specialized option in the Tau codex (something to do with logistics, perhaps?) but also available as a seperate army.

Like what I hope happens to Kroot. I love Kroot, but I hate them in the context of a Tau army - they don't fit. I want to run a Kroot army, but that can't be done until Kroot Mercenaries (or something similar) becomes readily available in a tastfully kosher format.

Also, I want to play Deathwatch. I don't really give a crap how GW does it, just give the Ordo Xenos some goddamn love, would ya?

Combined =][= codex? Fine with me. Ordo Xenos codex? That's fine too. Deathwatch codex? ...eh, what did I just say about not needing more Space Marines? But in this case, due to personal bias, I will put on my hypocrite hat and accept it.

Deathwatch are something I'm vehemently opposed to seeing as a standalone force fielded in large numbers.

One or two Kill-Teams in an Ordo Xenos force with Inquisitorial Stormtrooper support? Sure. That'd be awesome.

But Deathwatch, while common, just don't strike me as that much of a "frontline" unit.
Deathwatch Kill-Teams are deployed with specific objectives in mind, and are intended to hit the target, complete their objectives and get the frig out.

Yes, but I'd argue that that's exactly what we do on the tabletop.

We don't fight enormous battles with thousands of frontline troops trading shots most of the time. I mean, Guard players can, but that's the exception, not the rule.

What we see on the tabletop is a small snippet of a battle, lasting a few minutes in realtime, that involves taking and holding a specific objective (or objectives), or sweeping and clearing a force of equal size.

The tabletop is on a small enough scale that seeing Deathwatch marines lined up is alright with me.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you - the Deathwatch does not commit troops to major military actions. But then I don't think that the tabletop really simulates major military actions.

SaintHazard wrote:Yes, but I'd argue that that's exactly what we do on the tabletop.

We don't fight enormous battles with thousands of frontline troops trading shots most of the time. I mean, Guard players can, but that's the exception, not the rule.

What we see on the tabletop is a small snippet of a battle, lasting a few minutes in realtime, that involves taking and holding a specific objective (or objectives), or sweeping and clearing a force of equal size.

The tabletop is on a small enough scale that seeing Deathwatch marines lined up is alright with me.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you - the Deathwatch does not commit troops to major military actions. But then I don't think that the tabletop really simulates major military actions.

Well said. GW already made a game to play enormous battles with thousands of frontline troops, it's called Epic.

I always saw 40k as you said a small snippet of a battle or a small strike force taking to achieve an object.