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We call him anus wolfporn. Pretty ugly model, all the TWC's around here are Resin casts from third parties.

How have we gone this far in a Canis-bashing thread (which, don't kid yourselves, this thread is) without posting a picture of the damage itself?



By the beard of Kahless, that's an ugly model.

He's not too bad, if you like fen wolves, and he chews trough orkses...

I like one of the Nicknames

Canis Wolfborn and Snowflake

Actualy he can be realy Deadly, think about all of the Lead bouncing off your opponents head

Anpu42 wrote:Then how does he use his Special Ability: Rending?

Is it a Typo or a Non-existant Rule?

Basically a non-existent rule; I am sure the Author did intend for him to rend in Close combat with his wolf Claws, but unfortunately between not knowing how to convey this, and then the further muddling of the TWC ruling in the FAQ... it leads us to believe that it can never do anything at all.

[I am secretly enjoing this]
{Let me Utter thisi curse Word}
Logicaly If a rule listed he must be RAW, and by that he should have rending.

Now as for RAI, I think he was ment to have them like Shrike, mabye this is why he has no Invunrable Save?

No, the special rule "rending' does not exist by itself. It only exists as a special CCW.

But he already has a special CCW, and absent a RULE stating he gets BOTH wolf claws and rending, he does not.

RAW he only gets wolf claws. That's it.

Ok we have spend half a page going around in circles on the Rending Rule screw up.

I was wondering what works better

Thunder Wolf Cavalry Body Guard

Fenrisin Wolf Body Guard.

As a unit, Canis is good. As you said, he's perfect for hunting hordes and large or elite units, not fighting tanks (although he still could). As a unit, Canis is a killing machine! However, he doesn't have some of the force-multiplier effects that some of the other characters (eg. Logan) have and he is by no means the best.

And as a model, Canis is just too damn ugly!


Rules-wise he's good, but can be out-done. Combine this with an over-priced, ugly model and it should help explain his [lack of] popularity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and Fenris wolf body guard works better and suits his role of hunting infantry, TWC are better independently as they are their own threat and possess much more flexibility.

Canis makes Fenrisian Wolves a unit, he's just an unnecessary add-on to TWC IMHO.

Use him with Fen wolves- that's what his rules imply he does. Also on the rending, I belive the FAQ says he does not get it... Sad...

But my interpretation is this: His rending is a seperate rule, there fore he gets it. Fenrir (TWM) conveys rending ONLY on regular CCW. This is included in the rules for TWMs, so wouldn't it be redundant to put rending twice unless he was to have it all the time?

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Use him with Fen wolves- that's what his rules imply he does. Also on the rending, I belive the FAQ says he does not get it... Sad...

But my interpretation is this: His rending is a seperate rule, there fore he gets it. Fenrir (TWM) conveys rending ONLY on regular CCW. This is included in the rules for TWMs, so wouldn't it be redundant to put rending twice unless he was to have it all the time?

Fenrir is not a TWM.

Fenrir has 1 line of actual rules(and that line still does not tell you what exactly it does). That is the line telling you that Fenrir increases the profile for Canis(but does not tell you what those profile increases were, just that they have already been applied).

The entirety of listing Fenrir as a piece of wargear was completely pointless; Canis is a Cavalry model with the given statline, no further explanation about how his "profile is increased" was necessary.

Several of Canis's Rules are there to justify his cost, and it seems like the author looked at the stats and the abilities, and then looked at the cost and thought: "maybe i need to give him a reason for the cost and stats, I'll add that his mount gives him a stat boost!", but then never told us what his unmounted stats were.

Dang... thought I was on to something... Curse you Kel, for being right (As always... )!

What's wrong with it?! I would be embarrassed to field a model that stoopid looking.

A Wolf Guard Battle Leader with his equipment is 185 points and Canis has an extra wound, two extra attacks, and a couple of special rules in addition.

He's reasonable value, just an ugly model.

SaintHazard wrote:How have we gone this far in a Canis-bashing thread (which, don't kid yourselves, this thread is) without posting a picture of the damage itself?



By the beard of Kahless, that's an ugly model.

Does anyone else think it would be awesome to paint him red and white, put him in a sleigh and put a sack full of toys over his shoulder?

You mean something like this http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=187940?

Canis is by far one of the cheapest Lawn mowers that Space Wolves put out and offers a lot of possibilities that many people discount without much reason. I run Canis with 2 other Wolf Lords and 15 Fenrisian Wolves in what I like to call the Wolf Lord Horde. Basically, you have 18 Models that are Initiative 5 running across the field and shredding anything they touch. What's really cool? During Dawn of War, dropping Canis and the Fenrisian Wolves out at the halfway point in the middle of the board for deployment...usually throw people for a loop because many know they can just shoot it to death; however, I have just split their army in the perfect way for the rest of my army to only have to fight about half of the army for most of the game.

I5 Troops that don't score...yeah, not the greatest boost in the world...until you realize you can get 15 of those I 5 troops for less than the cost of a Razorback Grey Hunter Squad. I could care less if they don't scare, there's 5 other Troop slots for me to fill so that's no skin off of my teeth.

As per the Rending special rule...it is the same as any other special Close Combat Weapon...you have to choose which attacks you want to use. Why is rending there? So when some Genius puts Canis in Base to Base with a Dreadnought, the overgrown chinchilla has a chance before he dies...yeah, that chance is slim to none; however, it is a chance none the less.

At 180 points, I think he's worth it when actually used right...everyone who separates him from a unit without guaranteeing that he will be in assault for the next couple of rounds deserves to be berated. For everyone who says they can just shoot him off of the board...go for it...just don't forget, there is another xxxx amount of points that have plenty of ways to scalp you...

I don't care what his rules are.

But the entire concept of Space Wolves riding Wolves is just so silly and the model is executed so poorly that I'm not shocked at all at the amount of hate he generates.

I mean for God's sake - look at the wolf's face. Look at Canis' thumb on his raised hand. What made them think that Space Wolves riding wolves would be 'cool'. Well obviously they didn't, because they didn't even risk making a comparatively cheap metal mould to release a box of three. This means that Canis is nothing but a test model - a test to see whether making more of these abominations is viable, be they out of metal, plastic or even soap.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:Canis is by far one of the cheapest Lawn mowers that Space Wolves put out and offers a lot of possibilities that many people discount without much reason. I run Canis with 2 other Wolf Lords and 15 Fenrisian Wolves in what I like to call the Wolf Lord Horde. Basically, you have 18 Models that are Initiative 5 running across the field and shredding anything they touch. What's really cool? During Dawn of War, dropping Canis and the Fenrisian Wolves out at the halfway point in the middle of the board for deployment...usually throw people for a loop because many know they can just shoot it to death; however, I have just split their army in the perfect way for the rest of my army to only have to fight about half of the army for most of the game.

I5 Troops that don't score...yeah, not the greatest boost in the world...until you realize you can get 15 of those I 5 troops for less than the cost of a Razorback Grey Hunter Squad. I could care less if they don't scare, there's 5 other Troop slots for me to fill so that's no skin off of my teeth.

As per the Rending special rule...it is the same as any other special Close Combat Weapon...you have to choose which attacks you want to use. Why is rending there? So when some Genius puts Canis in Base to Base with a Dreadnought, the overgrown chinchilla has a chance before he dies...yeah, that chance is slim to none; however, it is a chance none the less.

At 180 points, I think he's worth it when actually used right...everyone who separates him from a unit without guaranteeing that he will be in assault for the next couple of rounds deserves to be berated. For everyone who says they can just shoot him off of the board...go for it...just don't forget, there is another xxxx amount of points that have plenty of ways to scalp you...

You could by them each thier 2 Woves and make them even larger
Canis +2=3
WL+2=3
WL+2=3
FWP 15=15
=21 models

And that right there Anpu is the reason why people call cheese...It's the points cost of 3 Boyz Squads but is capable of taking down 3 on the charge...

Hail!

To be honest, I don't see what is wrong with Canis' model or the fluff of Space Wolves riding Thunderwolves.

In the fluff, they say that the Thunderwolves resemble bearish/rhino-like wolves. I'd say that Fangir is a bit bulky in the front half of his body, but I think that his model isn't too far of a stretch from the description provied.

Secondly, the test of obtaining a Thunderwolf is similar to the first test of killing a Fenrisian Wolf before you are allowed to even become a Blood Claw. Now, let me further this idea a bit more. If taming a Thunderwolf truly is a brave and dangerous act, so dangerous so that if you succeeded you would have sagas written about you, don't you think this is something logical that a fame crazed Space Wolf might try to do after a long night of drinking at the mead hall?

Space Wolf 1 - "Hey man, I bet you that you can't ride one of those Tunderwolvesh (hic)."
Canis Wolfborn - "Oh really? (hic) I'll bet you that I can, AND that I can have two wolf claws and an unnecesshary rending rule while I do it. (hic) Shomeone hold me ale."

Considering that the Space Wolves are the equivalent of drunken Space Viking frat boys, I don't think that the fact that they ride Thunderwolves is that much of a stretch either.

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:
To be honest, I don't see what is wrong with Canis' model or the fluff of Space Wolves riding Thunderwolves.

Some people get it, some don't.

Would it be cool for the Blood Angels to ride giant bats around? What if the Raven Guard had those big birds from Lord of the Rings as mounts?

There's going too far, and then there's the Space Wolves codex. Nevermind that every other word in the thing is "wolf," but they actually took the concept to its painfully logical extreme: you can have a guy named Wolf Wolfborn riding a Thunderwolf and leading a pack of wolves while shouting about the Wolftime as he attacks people with his Wolf Claws while wearing his Wolftooth Necklace and Wolf Tail Talisman, his combat prowess enhanced by Saga of the Wolfkin.

Wuf Wuf Baby

@Seaward

If you're suggesting that I didn't realize that the majority of the SW codex is heavily based/centered around the wolf, trust me, I'm aware.....

Why wouldn't a race of warriors follow the apex predator of their planet, the wolf, as their icon to represent strength, cunning, fury, speed, and stealth? It seems pretty logical that they would hold some sort of superstitions associated with parts of the wolves they have defeated. Why is it a bad thing because they decided to tie a game mechanic to the Wolf Tooth Necklaces that any Space Wolf might have?

As to the Blood Angels riding vampire bats, I think that's a silly point to bring up. That entire book has to do with blood because its part of their fluff. Red Thirst, Blood Talons, Blood Lance, Sanguinor, Sanguinius, the Chalice of Blood. None of that is too literal for you? Should the Sanguinius not have wings because he's a Blood Angel?

Canis is a model to represent the very specific character of the Space Wolves, just as any Blood Angel special character is supposed to represent their chapter. If you don't like it, then don't play Space Wolves, but there's no point in bring up the very obvious point that the Space Wolves have a bunch of fluff around the wolf because there are countless other similar fluff based names/actions/items in 40k.

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:@Seaward

If you're suggesting that I didn't realize that the majority of the SW codex is heavily based/centered around the wolf, trust me, I'm aware.....

Why wouldn't a race of warriors follow the apex predator of their planet, the wolf, as their icon to represent strength, cunning, fury, speed, and stealth? It seems pretty logical that they would hold some sort of superstitions associated with parts of the wolves they have defeated. Why is it a bad thing because they decided to tie a game mechanic to the Wolf Tooth Necklaces that any Space Wolf might have?

As to the Blood Angels riding vampire bats, I think that's a silly point to bring up. That entire book has to do with blood because its part of their fluff. Red Thirst, Blood Talons, Blood Lance, Sanguinor, Sanguinius, the Chalice of Blood. None of that is too literal for you? Should the Sanguinius not have wings because he's a Blood Angel?

Canis is a model to represent the very specific character of the Space Wolves, just as any Blood Angel special character is supposed to represent their chapter. If you don't like it, then don't play Space Wolves, but there's no point in bring up the very obvious point that the Space Wolves have a bunch of fluff around the wolf because there are countless other similar fluff based names/actions/items in 40k.

Oh yeah, because other books have ANYTHING similar... When it gets to Wolf Wolfborn riding a Thunderwolf and leading a pack of wolves while shouting about the Wolftime as he attacks people with his Wolf Claws while wearing his Wolftooth Necklace and Wolf Tail Talisman, his combat prowess enhanced by Saga of the Wolfkin, you have a giant walking joke. Really, tell me one character in any other army as nonsensical as him. There's no chaos lord named DeathEvil McKillinger the Deathbringer of Death wielding the Deathfang on his Deathsteed.

TheBloodGod wrote:There's no chaos lord named DeathEvil McKillinger the Deathbringer of Death wielding the Deathfang on his Deathsteed.

There will be now, Thanks

Seaward wrote:

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:
To be honest, I don't see what is wrong with Canis' model or the fluff of Space Wolves riding Thunderwolves.

Some people get it, some don't.

Would it be cool for the Blood Angels to ride giant bats around? What if the Raven Guard had those big birds from Lord of the Rings as mounts?

There's going too far, and then there's the Space Wolves codex. Nevermind that every other word in the thing is "wolf," but they actually took the concept to its painfully logical extreme: you can have a guy named Wolf Wolfborn riding a Thunderwolf and leading a pack of wolves while shouting about the Wolftime as he attacks people with his Wolf Claws while wearing his Wolftooth Necklace and Wolf Tail Talisman, his combat prowess enhanced by Saga of the Wolfkin.

Oh lord, I lol'd at this.

You hit it dead-on, dude. This is why Space Wolf fluff is goddamn slowed.

Whoever wrote that crap is obviously a follower of the "A grim, shadowy figure enters the bar. It is Grimm Shaddo. / Dark Shadows of the Shadowdark" school of thought.

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:@Seaward

If you're suggesting that I didn't realize that the majority of the SW codex is heavily based/centered around the wolf, trust me, I'm aware.....

Why wouldn't a race of warriors follow the apex predator of their planet, the wolf, as their icon to represent strength, cunning, fury, speed, and stealth? It seems pretty logical that they would hold some sort of superstitions associated with parts of the wolves they have defeated. Why is it a bad thing because they decided to tie a game mechanic to the Wolf Tooth Necklaces that any Space Wolf might have?

Because they used to be a Space Marine chapter with a Viking werewolf slant, not Viking werewolves with a Space Marine slant. It's simply overdone. It's beyond overdone, really; the dead horse hasn't just been beaten, they went out and bought special wolf-headed bats to beat him with.

As to the Blood Angels riding vampire bats, I think that's a silly point to bring up. That entire book has to do with blood because its part of their fluff. Red Thirst, Blood Talons, Blood Lance, Sanguinor, Sanguinius, the Chalice of Blood. None of that is too literal for you? Should the Sanguinius not have wings because he's a Blood Angel?

Blood Angel naming conventions are certainly overdone as well, yeah, though they'll always have the fact that they don't have BAT CAVALRY to give them an edge over Space Wolf idiocy. Plus, there's the fact that half the people reading the codex aren't aware that "sanguine" is a synonym for "bloody." The BA also have a couple different dimensions to them, and despite my dislike for the vampiric/blood-based aspects of their fluff, they've actually really played up the "Angel of Death" angle in the most recent codex - which is a direct tie-in to Space Marine fluff in general, of course, rather than a complete and utter divergence into Crazytown. Blood Angels go overboard; Space Wolves appear to never have been on the ship to begin with.

Canis is a model to represent the very specific character of the Space Wolves, just as any Blood Angel special character is supposed to represent their chapter. If you don't like it, then don't play Space Wolves, but there's no point in bring up the very obvious point that the Space Wolves have a bunch of fluff around the wolf because there are countless other similar fluff based names/actions/items in 40k.

He's representative of a few very stupid ideas, and that's why he's hated. Honestly, Space Wolves would probably be a perfect fit for me if TWC weren't their best assault unit; I get all psyched about a list, and then realize that its main assault component is guys riding giant wolves. When I've picked my eyes up from where they landed after they rolled right out of my head, I flip open a different codex.

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:Why wouldn't a race of warriors follow the apex predator of their planet, the wolf, as their icon to represent strength, cunning, fury, speed, and stealth? It seems pretty logical that they would hold some sort of superstitions associated with parts of the wolves they have defeated. Why is it a bad thing because they decided to tie a game mechanic to the Wolf Tooth Necklaces that any Space Wolf might have?

It's because the best things about the Space Wolves weren't the wolves. Things like Logan Grimnar's opposition to the "The Ends Justify The Means" views of the Inquisition and others in the Imperium. The only change I really like from the new codex is the "Lone Wolf" concept, resulting from squads slowly being whittled down to nothing and the Space Wolves' unwillingness to break up understrength squads to bolster others.

As to the Blood Angels riding vampire bats, I think that's a silly point to bring up. That entire book has to do with blood because its part of their fluff. Red Thirst, Blood Talons, Blood Lance, Sanguinor, Sanguinius, the Chalice of Blood. None of that is too literal for you? Should the Sanguinius not have wings because he's a Blood Angel?

The Blood Angels also suck. The ability to focus heavily on assault marines Seaward mentioned is good, as it fits well with Space Marine doctrine, as well as working as a homage to the Mobile Infantry from Starship Troopers. But the heavy focus on blood is laughable. They should have kept Corbulo and his Red Grail as a singular, inspiring relic while regular Sanguinary Priests worked like normal Apothecaries, changed the Death Company so that falling to the Red Thirst wasn't seen as a good thing, and left the blood fist, blood talons and blood lance out of it.