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Jabbdo wrote:

FlingitNow wrote:

How are you turn 1 assaulting 2 units of necron warriors?

Unless it's the Necron player's first game ever, they aren't going to line up the Warriors as close as possible to your assault elements and then walk forward waiting for you to beat on them.

It not like you have to deploy them close to my assault element just pretty much anywhere on the table. Assaulting people on turn 1 is hardly a rare thing these days with Vanilla marines literally able to assault with their entire army in turn 1 should they wish to (not that it would be a competitive build but still possible).

Yes skilled Necron players reserve their warriors 99% of the time now its a pity and really says something about the codex when immortal soulless killing robots are forced to hide the entire game but anyways.

Do Necrons do Ninja well? Do they have the mobility to pull that off? With only 1 Monolith I don't see that as a viable option for this list.


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I never reserve my warriors. The secret to keeping warriors alive is good deployment. Don't deploy them so that your opponent can kill off more squads then 1 a turn, it's not hard really.

Sorry what? How exactly do you deploy so that say 2 LSSs full of scouts with a 45" charge range from their deployment spot on turn 1 don't get you and kill you? 15 Warriors would force the scouts to double up on 1 squad but due to WBB rather than FnP 1 Scout squad would sweep a 10 man Necron squad 9 times out of 10.

If your opponent then concentrated his on the other warrior squad he could even be phasing you out turn 1. That is the issue with this list too many squishy targets, no ranged AT and no really viable ninja option.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAH

Oh dear god, that was the best laugh of the day. 5 scouts??? Oh noes, what next, a grot squad??

You do realise the necrons can just get back up on the off chance you do sweep them? Then your scouts are standing there with their pants down. Nice job, you traded 4 KP's for 1


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the list itself:

I've played this list. And I can tell you, its one annoying melon-fether in objective games. You think trying to cause 9 wounds against a 2+ cover save is fun?? Thats what you gotta do to put those scarabs down.

IMO this list plays to best to the necron codex's strengths. It has its annoying counterattack elements, its tarpit units, its single rock that you anchor around and a good amount of warriors.

Wraith wing?? Dont make me laugh. They dont even have fething rending. My grey hunters will beat them in CC.

Destroyer wing?? A bit better, but still not great. Guess what, you're whole armies' firepower is 15 multilasers. For 750pts!!! What a bargain!!

If you want a speedy shooty army, play bike marines, mech eldar, or deldar.

If you want a fast CC army, play thunderwolves, dual seer council, or anything else really. Even fething grots are better in combat based on point for point effectiveness compared to wraiths.

You want to play necrons, dont try and make some kind of wannabe 5th ed force. Necrons cant do mech, they cant do gunline, they cant do CC. What can they do?? Shenanigans. Shenanigans, shenanigans, shenanigans. Abuse those 3rd ed rules. Abuse the crappily written WBB. Abuse your ridiculously good yet ridiculously cheap contester scarabs.

Dont try and migitate the codex's weaknesses. Play to its strengths. The necron codex square block wont fit into the 5th ed triangular hole, no matter how hard you force it.

5 Scouts (PFist, Combi-Melta) in a LSS w/ Flamer vs. 10 Necron Warriors:
4 Pistols - 8/3 Hits - 4/3 Wounds - 4/9 Necrons Dead
1 Melta - 2/3 Hits, 5/9 Wounds - 5/9 Dead Necrons (Better if a Vulcan List like I play)
Heavy Flamer - (Conservative 5 Hits) - 10/3 Wounds - 10/9 Necrons Dead (More if Vulcan)

So shooting will likely kill 1, maybe two at most.

12 Attacks on the charge - 6 Hits - 3 Wounds - 1 Warrior Dead
Necrons strike back - Now 8 members - 16/3 hits - 8/3 Wounds - 4/3 Scouts Dead
Powerfist Hits - 1.5 Hits - 5/4 Wounds - 5/4 Dead Necrons

Scouts win combat by 1 or two. They'll likely hold.

So two LSS's with Scouts will kill several Necrons and tie them up for next turn. Proper Speeder Positioning Will keep you out of Rapid Fire range from other surrounding squads. If you do miraculously sweep the bastards (do get help from Speeder's Cerberus Launcher), they can't get back up as has been described in earlier posts. Pretty effective for a 170 point suicide squad. Follow that up with other Mech units racing up, or Drop Pods, and this particular list is dead. Don't underestimate 5 scouts.

I will continue to agree that this list needs some tuning. You lose your scarabs, and you lose objective games as there is no way you are contesting the opponent's. Assault armies eat you alive. AV10-11-12 spam will eat this army because of a lack of ranged antitank, and you'll still maybe kill one a turn once they close with your Warriors and Monolith.

Wraithwing can be very effective, suprisingly enough if Led by a Destroyer Lord. Back them up with 3 Monoliths. Boom.
Destroyer wing gives you 15 Multilasers with one better strength and AP that can move 12" a turn and Turboost to contest objectives.

The Necron Codex can be effective. Just not using Warriors as a basis for the list. Lords, C'Tan, Destroyers, Wraiths, and Monoliths. Immortals, Scarabs, and Tomb Spyders to taste.

Oh dear god, that was the best laugh of the day. 5 scouts??? Oh noes, what next, a grot squad??

You do realise the necrons can just get back up on the off chance you do sweep them? Then your scouts are standing there with their pants down. Nice job, you traded 4 KP's for 1

Seriously? Have you ever even played 40k? 5 Scouts is more than enough to sweep a unit of 10 Necrons and you don't get backup from sweeping advances. You're removed full stop no exceptions whole squad even the ones that I killed with the flamers before the assault. WBB is your enemy against the scout assault, FnP and you'd have a real chance against it.


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5 Scouts (PFist, Combi-Melta) in a LSS w/ Flamer vs. 10 Necron Warriors:
4 Pistols - 8/3 Hits - 4/3 Wounds - 4/9 Necrons Dead
1 Melta - 2/3 Hits, 5/9 Wounds - 5/9 Dead Necrons (Better if a Vulcan List like I play)
Heavy Flamer - (Conservative 5 Hits) - 10/3 Wounds - 10/9 Necrons Dead (More if Vulcan)

So shooting will likely kill 1, maybe two at most.

12 Attacks on the charge - 6 Hits - 3 Wounds - 1 Warrior Dead
Necrons strike back - Now 8 members - 16/3 hits - 8/3 Wounds - 4/3 Scouts Dead
Powerfist Hits - 1.5 Hits - 5/4 Wounds - 5/4 Dead Necrons

Scouts win combat by 1 or two. They'll likely hold.

Lets redo the maths wioth the scouts properly equiped and supported:

Flamers hits normally about 7 with good 2" placing. But we'll go 6, remember the LSS will be right next to them.

6 S5 hits = 4 wounds = 1.33 down
6 S4 hits = 3 wounds = 1 down
4 BPs = 2 hits = 1 wound = .33 down

So 2.67 down before combat we'll round down to 2.

Scouts 16 Attacks = 8 hits = 4 wounds = 1.33 down (so 4 down it total on average now but we'll only count 1 towards combat res).

6 Necrons = 4 hits = 2wounds =1 dead Scout
4 PF attacks = 2 hits = 2 dead Necrons

Leadership test at LD6 and just 4 Warriors left eitherway I'm happy either I've swept you or I'm now in a nice Necron cusion and that's 2 of your 4 Warrior squads in fights they can't win.

FlingitNow wrote:It not like you have to deploy them close to my assault element just pretty much anywhere on the table. Assaulting people on turn 1 is hardly a rare thing these days with Vanilla marines literally able to assault with their entire army in turn 1 should they wish to (not that it would be a competitive build but still possible).

Ok, how?

FlingitNow wrote:Seriously? Have you ever even played 40k? 5 Scouts is more than enough to sweep a unit of 10 Necrons

And again, how? Emphasizing on MORE THAN ENOUGH.

Ok, how?

Inflitrating Scouts with Shrike, Infiltrating Shrike with assault marines, Scout bikers, Deffkopterz, Land Speeder Storms, Valkyries, just off the top of my head.

With a Vanilla list if you want to assault with your entire force turn 1 take Shrike and some a unit of JP marines (be they Vanguard or Assault). Then take scouts as your troops choices. And Scout bikers as you Fast attack.

Shrike and his squad infiltrate 18" away from a unit. Turn 1 they jump 12", run 1" and presto in assault range.

Scout nikers Scout move 24" to 12" away from opponent. Then move 12" fire everything and are in assault range.

Scouts infiltrate 18" away then scout move 6" to 12" away. Turn 1 they move 6", run 1" and again they are in assault range. That could be 60 Scouts all with hidden PFs plus Shrike and his unit. The Scouts come to 1110 points plus the bikers and Shrike and his squad and you could easily make a 2k+ list.

As I said this list would be rubbish but would assault with literally every model on turn 1 regardless of where on the table you deployed.

FlingitNow wrote:
As I said this list would be rubbish but would assault with literally every model on turn 1 regardless of where on the table you deployed.

Using a rubbish list (you said it yourself) as a benchmark against OP's list wouldnt be very helpful, at least in my opinion.

You haven't enlighten us how 5 scouts is MORE THAN ENOUGH to trample 10 Warriors.

And again, how? Emphasizing on MORE THAN ENOUGH.

Ok that was a slight exaggeration looking at the maths but it does work. If you fired some shots from other units into the Necrons you should wipe them out one way or another more often than not.

Trust me I've done it many times. Turn 1, if I went first, I'd expect to take out at least 30 Necrons from this list, assuming my orbital bombardment missed, otherwise we're looking nearer 40. This is coming from exprience. Uunits of 10 Necrons aare justle to fast moving assaulters. Imagine if someone took 9 PK totting Deffkopters. You'd fancy each squad of them to take out a Necron squad of just 10 guys.

Rather than worrying about the semmantics of what army does or doesn't do this or that. The issue is that 10 man Necron squads are brittle. Fast moving assault armies will get at them quickly one way or another. 15 man Necron squads are much harder to deal with and require a more concerted assault to get rid of.


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Using a rubbish list (you said it yourself) as a benchmark against OP's list wouldnt be very helpful, at least in my opinion.

Please read my posts, I've never done this. I said that turn 1 assaulter lists would eat small units of Necrons and they will. People then said turn 1 assaults weren't possible or that you could hide somewhere on the board from them and I pointed out they were and that you can't, and also that it is entirely possible to assault with your entire army on turn 1 should you wish to build one that does that. It was an illustration of how easy getting turn 1 assaults off is not as definition of an army that would beat him.

FlingitNow wrote:Seriously? Have you ever even played 40k? 5 Scouts is more than enough

FlingitNow wrote:Ok that was a slight exaggeration looking at the maths

Then refrain from using such strong words in future.
5 scouts don't trounce 10 Warriors in CC.

Then refrain from using such strong words in future.

He was laughing at the possibly of the scouts beating 10 warriors and not only are they strong favourites statiscally in my experience they usually get the job done.

5 scouts don't trounce 10 Warriors in CC.

Taking you down to 4 and guys taking a break test at Ld6 is pretty much a trouncing to me.

FlingitNow wrote:

Taking you down to 4 and guys taking a break test at Ld6 is pretty much a trouncing to me.

Again can you show us how that happen using mathhammer?

Again can you show us how that happen using mathhammer?

See above I've already done that...

Add dis fields onto the Scarabs so they can glance vehicles and wound models - annoying little buggers.

I agree what people are saying the Destroyers, though it's the best long range fire power units Necrons have with decent strength. Immortals are cool, but S5 doesn't do a lot.

FlingitNow wrote:

Again can you show us how that happen using mathhammer?

See above I've already done that...

U added shooting casualties to the combat resolution result. I don't think this is correct. Normal attacks killed 3 nec. Pf killed 1. 1 scout killed. 10-2=8. I seriously don't know how you got 6

He's saying 4 in combat because he rounded shooting down, which was 2.73 dead from shooting, and in combat the Scouts get 1.something which makes it 2 and then the fist gets 2 which is 4 dead in total, which is really 6 dead in total from shooting and combat combined leaving 4 Warriors left - not destroyed, possibly, but won't last next turn.

mercer wrote:He's saying 4 in combat because he rounded shooting down, which was 2.73 dead from shooting, and in combat the Scouts get 1.something which makes it 2 and then the fist gets 2 which is 4 dead in total, which is really 6 dead in total from shooting and combat combined leaving 4 Warriors left - not destroyed, possibly, but won't last next turn.

Nope dude. Read again

Yes. He said kills 2.63 shooting but he rounded it down, then 1.33 by scouts add on that bit he rounded down makes it 2 then 2 from the fist, equals 4. Really it shouldn't have rounded down at all but up, though won't kill 1 from shooting at all with 3+ armour then wbb, same in assault, it's the fist which will probably kill 1 maybe 1 and half

Though what flingit does is just work out wounds caused, doesn't appear it works out armour saves. So I doubt the scouts work as strongly as he suggests. Also they get 12 attacks on the charge if I'm right one fir profile one for ccw and pistol one for charging, not sure if the Cerberus launcher on the speeder gives bonus attacks.

Remember to add in the minus to leadership from the scouts Cerberus Launchers in the Speeder Storm. Makes forcing that sweep test a lot easier.

Actually, its pretty easy to migitate the damage a first turn assault can do. Chooser of the slain will rape it utterly. Bubblewrap will render the assault useless, and any army really can stick some sacrificial screening unit to stop the assaulters getting to the important stuff.

This whole discussion on t1 pwnage charging and killing 30-40 warriors down is useless. Preventing you from assaulting any of my key units, let alone 2-3 at once is necessary, and not at all hard to do.

Also: although not scientifically trustworthy, grand illusion works charms against people who think they can trounce me with t1 charges. Deploy a warrior squad stranded out in an opposite corner, and I bet your opponent will greedily steer his flame storm baal, land speeder storms and deff koptas at that. I guess it's got something to do with this ''you cant even beat your own sister with this list'' -attitude people have towards this list...

Just ask Jabbdo, he fell for it more than once in a row.

Still, just bear in mind... Sure, you might be sure of yourself to be able to protect your warriors from assaults, but you are wrong... I had same optimism when started playing, and still happen to play similar fun lists as I don't have much necron models...

It is the fact... Necrons die in cc... 5 scouts? It is highly possible... And that was just fun example... Try 12 orks, because that will often ram into your warriors, or something similar.... Just listen what people tell you... warriors are bad in this dex... Too expensive for that fragile in cc flaw... You want to play it anyway? Sure, go ahead, why not? I always encourage people play with non-competitive lists...

But if you want our advice on how to be competitive, don't go defending warriors... It is just wrong... Every competitive necron list will try to minimize number of warrior squads and their size...

If you want to be more footy, try immortals with porting lord... It can be fun and competitive... Lose 2 warrior squad for 1 immortal squad...

mercer wrote:Yes. ..

Ah dude read this...

FlingitNow wrote:Lets redo the maths wioth the scouts properly equiped and supported:

Flamers hits normally about 7 with good 2" placing. But we'll go 6, remember the LSS will be right next to them.

6 S5 hits = 4 wounds = 1.33 down
6 S4 hits = 3 wounds = 1 down
4 BPs = 2 hits = 1 wound = .33 down

So 2.67 down before combat we'll round down to 2.

Scouts 16 Attacks = 8 hits = 4 wounds = 1.33 down (so 4 down it total on average now but we'll only count 1 towards combat res).

6 Necrons = 4 hits = 2wounds =1 dead Scout
4 PF attacks = 2 hits = 2 dead Necrons

Leadership test at LD6 and just 4 Warriors left eitherway I'm happy either I've swept you or I'm now in a nice Necron cusion and that's 2 of your 4 Warrior squads in fights they can't win.

Either I m confused, or both of you are confused about what you all are talking about.

I think you are confused.

You lost combat by 2 so you are Ld6. What is difficult to understand about that? 10 - 2 - 2= 6. I don't see the problem?

FlingitNow wrote:I think you are confused.

You lost combat by 2 so you are Ld6. What is difficult to understand about that? 10 - 2 - 2= 6. I don't see the problem?

Yes, i m confused. What's with the -2 and -2 ??

Yes, i m confused. What's with the -2 and -2 ??

-2 for combat res and -2 for being assaulted from a LSS.

FlingitNow wrote:

Yes, i m confused. What's with the -2 and -2 ??

-2 for combat res and -2 for being assaulted from a LSS.

First it's 5 scouts, now it's 5 scouts + LSS?
Nvm...
By the same logic, a squad of gretchin will own 10 warriors too.



With the help of a small squad of 3 meganobs nearby. I certainly can understand why Jabbdo was laughing.

First it's 5 scouts, now it's 5 scouts + LSS?
Nvm...
By the same logic, a squad of gretchin will own 10 warriors too.



With the help of a small squad of 3 meganobs nearby. I certainly can understand why Jabbdo was laughing.

It was always 5 scouts jumping from a LSS that is how they get across the board for the turn 1 assault. Heck where did you think the heavy flamer fire was coming from?

How is the logic remotely like your example? I think you need to read the rules if you think Meganobz can transport grots around. I also advise you actually read posts you're replying to if it has taken you this long to figure out that a LSS was involved.

Using units in coherence with their transport is hardly anything new. Did you really think my scouts could move 45" by walking or running?

Do you know any of the rules for 40k?

FlingitNow wrote:1 Scout squad would sweep a 10 man Necron squad 9 times out of 10

FlingitNow wrote:Seriously? Have you ever even played 40k? 5 Scouts is more than enough to sweep a unit of 10 Necrons

And again, how? Emphasizing on MORE THAN ENOUGH.

General_Chaos wrote:

haizelhoff wrote:If you sweeping advance one squad, the warriors WBB into another squad

No they don't

I'm sorry, I just couldn't let this go once I read this with no one arguing it. It is quite easy to allow a wbb roll even when dying to a sweeping advance.

Step 1) Rez orb near the swept unit

Step 2a) another unit near the first unit
or
step 2b) tomb spyder near the first unit and a second unit within range of a tomb spyder.

I could see a multi-layered bubble wrap doing this.

You want to play necrons, dont try and make some kind of wannabe 5th ed force. Necrons cant do mech, they cant do gunline, they cant do CC. What can they do?? Shenanigans. Shenanigans, shenanigans, shenanigans.

THIS

Embrace the . Embrace it.


I like this list. It's a little tough to stomach at first, especially since 5E kind of turned the whole necro status quo upside down, but I would really love for OP to get us a battle report so some of the non-believers can kind of see how it plays out.

Now, invariably some of you are going to attack the opponent in whatever BR he posts, and point out each and every flaw or crystal ball failure. But let's face it, nobody is General MacArthur around here, so your opponent isn't going to always test the outer limits of what your list is capable of.

I would, however, take your own suggestion OP, and do what you can to stretch out those warrior squads as much as you can. Also, when fighting poison capable/heavy armies have you considered other options for your "rock"? Have you thought about adding an infiltrator/deepstrike style unit to help flank (Flayers perhaps?)?

I always like the using the infiltrator scare during deployment to "keep your opponent honest". I find even seasoned players will sometimes end up deploying a little differently when they are afraid of an infiltrator squad. This may assist you in larger gaps in your opponents LOF and give your Warriors a little more room to breath.

Also, LMFAO@

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAH

Oh dear god, that was the best laugh of the day. 5 scouts??? Oh noes, what next, a grot squad??

Scouterminators ftw

haizelhoff wrote:This whole discussion on t1 pwnage charging and killing 30-40 warriors down is useless. Preventing you from assaulting any of my key units, let alone 2-3 at once is necessary, and not at all hard to do.

Also: although not scientifically trustworthy, grand illusion works charms against people who think they can trounce me with t1 charges. Deploy a warrior squad stranded out in an opposite corner, and I bet your opponent will greedily steer his flame storm baal, land speeder storms and deff koptas at that. I guess it's got something to do with this ''you cant even beat your own sister with this list'' -attitude people have towards this list...

Just ask Jabbdo, he fell for it more than once in a row.

fething grand illusion! fething necrons with their OP codex!! They're so cheesy with their gay WBB rolls!!

the weasel king wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:

haizelhoff wrote:If you sweeping advance one squad, the warriors WBB into another squad

No they don't

I'm sorry, I just couldn't let this go once I read this with no one arguing it. It is quite easy to allow a wbb roll even when dying to a sweeping advance.

Step 1) Rez orb near the swept unit

Step 2a) another unit near the first unit
or
step 2b) tomb spyder near the first unit and a second unit within range of a tomb spyder.

I could see a multi-layered bubble wrap doing this.

wrong... You don't get wbb roll if swept away in either of those situations...
as I explained somewhere in the post, sweaping advance negates any wbb roll, and neither lord nor another squad will not help you there...

If it was different, there would be playable option for footy warriors...

Now about scouts... They have 50% of chance (and this is not mathammer) to take them out... But it really doesn't matter... All the posters wanted to say is that warriors die in cc... Ofc, scouts are example... But what when something serious charges you? Dead...

And finally list... If you are talking competitive all-comers list, then your list is bad... Why? Bad anti-tankimg is first reason... Against mech spam (ig chimera, yw razorback, eldar serpent etc.) you won't stand a chance...
Next, mobility and survivability... I put this together because you can play list that is not mobile, but it has to be tough then... Hard and heavy as you would call it... Your list lacks both... You will be outmanuevered and charged, no matter how good player you are...
Finally, range... You are playing gunline and are slow... In most games opponent will shoot you down from distance and contest your objectives in the end of the game...


This are my thoughts on the list... But prove me wrong and playtest against competitive lists... And post some battle reports...