Orc and Goblin Rumours/ Incoming "information"email included.

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**Kroothawk**

Why not copy the complete current summary of rumours?

Ney wrote:Book seems slated for a Feb/March release, written by Jeremy Vetock and apparently already done! (strongly hinted at by hastings and harry, and also seems in line with the known release schedule).And we're back to not February, seems like its March again, thanks to Harry.

We keep all current SC(that includes Grom in his chariot!) and get Wurzzag and two goblin characters both heroes one of which is a forrest gobling for a totalt of 15 lord choices and 11 hero choices!

We get a new model, the Arachnarok spider. It can be takes as a mount for a common gobling great shaman, or it can be a rare choice. As a rare choice it will have options for some warmachine thingie or other special rule in that regard.

Common goblins will get some sort of a unit upgrade. hastings hinted at something that has two handweapons but is not an assasin. (I am still a bit unclear whether the upgrade is the new Special Char or a seperate upgrade like the DE assasin)

(Common) Goblin characters will be able to ride Giant and Gigantic spiders, so an all spider army should be viable (hastings).

Also we are getting another new unit besides the Arachnarok, though it is unclear what it is at the moment.

We get some new plastics, so far people agree on we get 5 sets:
Besides the spider, the best bets so far are Savage Orcs incl boars, with the remaining two to be named. One which could be the new as of yet missing unit.

Things we do not get:
Orcs do NOT get devestating charge (hastings).
Hobgoblins.
Common forrest goblins (on foot).
Orc Idols and some huge cave beast (though we might hope Warhammer Forge may come up with something nice, eh? But nothing is in the pipelines just yet according to people that talked to them at Games Day UK).
Plastic Sguigs.
Black Orc Boar Boys
Skirmishing giant spider riders

And lastly a little quote (just to be clear, it is about the presentation/composition of the book not the actual rules etc).

Harry wrote:In 8th edition, and starting with Orcs and Goblins we can expect a whole different kind of army book.
Obviously many of the same sections will be there but expect something a bit different.

**Flashman**

Cheers Kroothawk, to be honest I just dipped in and took the stuff which seemed interesting.

**Eldar Own**

Kirasu wrote:Agreed.. Orcs and Empire will always get a new book in every edition. Period.

Same with space marines in 40k

I agree. And the O&G is often one of the first few to be released. And i must as always express my symapthy for those armies, that need one, not getting an update. It does seem odd, this long wait, but perhaps GW are actually considering how the new rules go, and designing the army book to balanced, regarding these things.

Animosity isn't so bad imo, yes it's annoying at times but it does fit in the character of the orcs. Perhaps a 2D6 table where one option is the current 1 on the animostiy table and perhaps the nest one up from that is like D3 wounds with no armour saves allowed, or one is try to charge the nearest enemy unit. I also hope they find a way to make regualr goblins and wolf riders viable, and make them play differently to thier respective night and forest gobbo alternatives.

The new models sound cool, a giant spider choice would be very cool! As would some plastic savage orcs, or at least some cheaper ones, and since they've realeased the river trolls, why not a plastic stone troll set? I'm going to have to think about what the new unit may be, as i have absoloutly no idea what it could be....

Well, i'll be looking forward to this update.

WAAAAAAGGGGHHHH!

**kenshin620**

Mmmmm savage orcs!

**lasgunpacker**

I asked this question on a previous thread, but what about new common gobbos? On foot and on wolf, they could certainly do with a remodel to be the correct size.

I mean, a new rule book is all well and good, but tell me about the miniatures.

And it is not very surprising to say "new format" for the rulebook... it seems like every other book is in a new format. Unless they mean it will be A5 sized or something.

**Grimstonefire**

My guess is that they will make it more complete for background, with campaign maps and things. More expensive obviously.

I believe Harry said the book will be a fair bit thicker.

**greenbay924**

Honestly, animosity frustrates me more than anything. Yes, orcs need it as a major component on what makes them unique, but at the same time, they need to be competitive. They shouldn't be limited to only fluff players.

I think the bell curve should work, with something like:

2 - don't move
3-4 - stupidity
5-9 - nothing
10-11 - stubborn
12 - frenzy, or maybe just the must charge part of it.

I know it's already set in stone, but that's my wish listing.

**Wehrkind**

Munch Munch! wrote:
Sarrazon wrote:
Flashman wrote:
Kurgash wrote:They're back for another go!

Kurgash is making a obscure reference to Ork dialogue in the Dawn of War games here folks.

EDIT - Just realised who my audience was and that it probably wasn't remotely obscure to 99.9% of you
As someone who has never played Dawn of War, however, I thank you. Hey, I'm in the .1 percent!

Sweet, I'm part of a select few as well!

That also puts you in the percentage range of people with vestigial tails too. Just sayin'

O&G would be a cool army to see next, and really would play well into the "Hordes of models on the table" theme GW has been pushing for ~2-3 years now with Apocalypse, cheap Orks and IG, Skaven and now 8th edition's big bonuses to huge units. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see cheap orc boyz and piles of gobbo's for only a few points each, but a buck o five at the cash register

**Minsc**

I wouldn't be surprised either, but I would be surprised to see them done effectively. Ex: Making Orcs something like 4pts a model... with no upgrades. Choppas are gone, replaced with Orcs getting something like Furious Charge.

Don't get me wrong, points-per they'll still be better than typical undead troops for their cost. But GW doesn't have the best track record with what is actually done and what's predicted (ex: How many people actually see entire armies fielded in horde formation?).

**Wehrkind**

My guess is that perhaps O&G will make a play to be ALL horde. Maybe... I kind of doubt GW will really foresee what would be needed to make that good, but might be able to guess effectively with cheap boys and cheaper gobbos.

**greenbay924**

If all they do is make units cheaper to field, I'll be really upset. So the big change with a new rulebook, is I go from infantry that's cheap and can't really beat anything in combat, and must rely on a battle of attrition and static combat res to win, to a cheaper army with all of the same above. There is so much character that can be given to an Orc and Goblin army, I really hope they don't take the bland, 'combine everything together' approach like what they did to Vampire Counts...

**Minsc**

It would be consistent with GW, though. Especially if they get a minor leg up at edition's start due to being one of the first books (Look at these bonus' Orcs get!)... and then get quickly drowned out by Army Book / Codex Creep (even if such is much more noticeable / potent in 40K than WHFB).

Wurzzag coming back is good. I imagine that the O&G Lores will be akin to the Skaven (replacing the Pestilens & Skyre lores with Big & Little Waaagh!), but can't imagine whether GW would give him access to both lores (ALA 6th Edition) or just give him a full Lore (which would probably be 7 spells, 8 if he's given a unique spell) which fits with most "Special Character Mage = One Lore Loremaster" bit. I doubt he's going to keep a lot of his rules, though (such as "Ignores Miscasts but loses his dice", the storing two dice, etcetera), and instead be just general improvements (ex: additional bonus to casting or dispel, slightly improved steed rules, the aforementioned Loremaster bit, etcetera).

Goblin Characters, a Forest Goblin Hero was mentioned? Who do people think the next would be, a Common or a Night? I can't quite think of any particular non-mentioned O&G heroes at the moment, but if I had to guess this one's going to be a unique Shaman (due to the fact that only two of the current Special Characters have any magic, and only one is technically a Wizard).

I imagine we're going to hear much more rumors as we get closer to the supposed time of release. Confirmation for next Fantasy book will probably come either December or January, and the actual "rumors" tend to come out a month-or-so prior.

**Eldar Own**

Talking of O&G magic lores, i'd like them to be made better. They're ok, but i'd much prefer to be able to take a BRB lore. A forest goblin character option would be cool as well i suppose, i reckon it'll have rules like it moves normally through terrain and poisoned attacks. I also thought it'd be a good idea to give orcs devastating charge, it fits their character well, just like furious charge for orks in 40k, though i faintly remember hearing that they won't be getting it, whether on this thread or elsewhere. I hope this isn't the case

**Gargskull**

No plastic squigs is a bummer, I love having squigs as decorations for my ork conversions. :(

**greenbay924**

The lores do need a lot of help, but I'm pretty sure they'll just do what they've done in the past, just update the current spells to match the new rulebook. I wouldn't get too excited about them tbh. As for wurrzhag, him coming back has made me completely excited, next to grimgor, he is my favorite of the orc characters, and was always on the table top for me. I already know we'll get a more generic version of him (kind of like the semi nerfing they gave grimgor). The ignores miscast rule would just be crazy, in Teclis territory. Since he's spent most of his time in the wild, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get access to lore of bests, then again, it doesn't fit as all orc shaman get their magical power from the WAAAGH, so I'm thinking no BRB magic.

If all they do is make him a lvl 4 caster, and keep the cool "make somebody into a squig" spell...I'll be happy, and ready to dust off his model.

**SpacePanzee**

Wehrkind wrote:
O&G would be a cool army to see next, and really would play well into the "Hordes of models on the table" theme GW has been pushing for ~2-3 years now with Apocalypse, cheap Orks and IG, Skaven and now 8th edition's big bonuses to huge units. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see cheap orc boyz and piles of gobbo's for only a few points each, but a buck o five at the cash register

Just in time for the Mantic plastics?

**Kroothawk**

Here a news update by Frgt/10 over at Warseer:

- O&Gs are 100% coming in march
- the night gobbo sneaky unit are attachments to regular NG units like fanatics. similar to assassins but more like 'hangers-on' than 'professional killers' (note that this conflicts with Harrys report that it was a common gobbo addition, but i was told NG *shrugs*)
- plastic savage orcs
- new wurrzagg model from what ive heard (might be wrong on this one though)
- the new book is to old army books in a way that the 8th edition RB is to older edition RBs

**jprp**

Regarding animosity i always thought the low LD represented this enough (after all it stems from some skirmishes in LOTR that involved orcs from different armies-mordor vs isengard and morgul vs main mordor) without slowing play with extra rules, combined with Fear of elves it makes goblins very poor.
It has always seemed to be a trend with GW that "evil" troops with special rules always have at least as many down sides as advantages eg a character might hate enemies but also is stupid.This rarely happens with the "good guys". Also the baddies seem to have poorer saves both armour and wards.

**Minsc**

So, if NGoblins get more attachments, the choices are:

Unit with lots of specialization ranging from De-Buffs to enemies, mini-Heroes, one of the more feared models / point cost (Name a few more 25 point models that put off a unit of not-Wolf Cavalry like Fanatics), better base gear (Shield vs Light Armor), and Faster at the cost of -1 LD.

Unit with Ld 6, at the cost of all the above benefits, and potential to get a 5+ / 6+ save at a 33% price increase.

... Either Night Goblins are going to be hit hard, or GW just doesn't care about non-Cavalry standard Goblins any more. Really, right now the choice is pretty much always "Night Goblin" unless you're taking an All-Gobbo list without special characters (in which case a Common is often chosen simply for the Ld8, with the rest Night Goblins). With even more advantages to Night Gobbos? Eech.

New Wurrzagg has me mixed. On one hand, I have the 6th Ed. Model and await his return. On the other, it would not surprise me at all if GW completely remade the model so as to say "FU" to old players, and force you to buy a new one / convert a pre-existing Shaman to utilize him. Wouldn't surprise me much at all (He's been in use but also not-changed since about the time of the DEldar, if I'm not mistaken, and a few DEldar units and Characters got that stick).

Plastic Savage Orcs... about bloody time. They could release the things at flippin' Gold Sword prices and they'd still (practically) be cheaper. The models aren't bad at all, but the sheer cost... it's like they think you're actually an Orc and can grow (plus regrow) money for 'em.

The "New is to Old as 8th is to 6th / 7th" has me a bit alarmed, though. Why? Orcs are try #1. Either it's gone to be done average (and thus, while decent at the start, quickly drowned ALA pendulum shifts), or horribly (as they use it to hammer out what does and doesn't work). While I don't mind an average, I don't want the Orcs to be the 5th Ed. Chaos Marine codex of WHFB.

**Kurgash**

jprp wrote:Regarding animosity i always thought the low LD represented this enough (after all it stems from some skirmishes in LOTR that involved orcs from different armies-mordor vs isengard and morgul vs main mordor) without slowing play with extra rules, combined with Fear of elves it makes goblins very poor.
It has always seemed to be a trend with GW that "evil" troops with special rules always have at least as many down sides as advantages eg a character might hate enemies but also is stupid.This rarely happens with the "good guys". Also the baddies seem to have poorer saves both armour and wards.

WoC discredits this statement.

**nosferatu1001**

Minsc - CSM is a 4th ed codex. The first just about 5th ed was Orks.

**Shattered Soul**

Would love to see some resized gobbos and plastic forest goblins! Hobgoblins would be a plus but I'm not holding my breath. They really should make plastic squigs though.

**oldone**

First off i would love to see plastic sqiugs as my 40k orks would benefits from it.
next i would love to see this book set the mark for power level for this edition much like space marines did for 40k, for i personly see most of the 5th edition on the same level with the book (not Nids obvs which did get screwed).

**reds8n**

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14300090a

For years uncounted, before even the Empire existed, and Men were little more than barbarous and primitive cave-dwellers, the Orcs & Goblins have haunted the mountains and deep forests of the world. Extremely aggressive and savage creatures, Orc & Goblin tribes rarely suffer a peaceful moment in their unending lust for battle and inexplicable urge to pillage and despoil.

Once roused to war by a powerful or charismatic leader, a greenskin Waaagh! on the march can rapidly snowball into a seemingly endless tide of rowdy Orc and Goblin warriors, scuttling creatures and lumbering monsters as neighbouring tribes flock to join the gathering masses, or capitulate in defeat. The haphazard nature by which Orc & Goblin armies are mustered results in a huge variety of unruly mobs of squabbling warriors and a wide selection of creatures both great and small. Such huge diversity ensures that greenskin armies are by far the most unpredictable to face in battle.

March 2011 will see the release of Warhammer: Orcs & Goblins, an essential guide to fielding a greenskin host on the tabletop, and a veritable font of knowledge detailing the complete rules, background, artwork and enormous range of miniatures available to a budding Warboss.

To support this exciting release, we will also be unveiling a genuine feast of new miniatures that would sate even the most ravenous Troll. All will be revealed in time, but keep up to speed on developments by checking out White Dwarf and the What's New Today blog on the website. If you haven't already done so, make sure you sign up to the Games Workshop newsletter to learn of any news as soon as it is released.

With this in mind, if you have ever fancied starting your own legion of greenskins, or are looking to ensure that your tribe is the biggest and nastiest around, remember that the Orcs & Goblins are already blessed with a plethora of multi-part plastic kits. The selection of fantastic sets below are the best way to get your army up and running, safe in the knowledge that they will not be replaced in March. So, gather up some Boyz and grab your favourite choppa because now is the time for WAAAGH!

**NAVARRO**

March then

I'm covered spider wise

but a new kit its always good.

**reds8n**

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Just got this e-mail

In this issue: Waaagh! More greenskins are on the way...

Incoming! Orcs & Goblins

In March the green tide of Orcs & Goblins, the scourge of the Warhammer world, is about to become even bigger. In an unstoppable Waaagh! these angry creatures live to fight; their only goal is to rampage and slaughter. Take a look at the Astronomican today to see the Studio's Incoming! article about Orcs & Goblins, and for advice in building up an army in time for the new arrivals.

**Drk_Oblitr8r**

Ohh yes, I forgot why I had 3 tabs of this thread open ^_^"

**Element206**

hmm, interesting

**Bloodwin**

Hmmm, I've never been fussed with the spiders. What I would love is for the wolf riders to be re done so that the old wolf model could finally be retired. But thinking about it I can understand if they wanted to focus on the forest goblins - with the Hobbit movie most likely being released before another greenskin codex I guess they'd have to distance themselves from that IP. So long as we still have plenty of Night Gobbos I'll be happy.

**reds8n**

I would suggest that Goblin players will be happy with this book indeed.

Thanks to Mr. frgt/10 from Warseer

-the night gobbo sneaky unit are attachments to regular NG units like fanatics. similar to assassins but more like 'hangers-on' than 'professional killers' (note that this conflicts with Harrys report that it was a common gobbo addition, but i was told NG *shrugs*)
-plastic savage orcs
-new wurrzagg model from what ive heard (might be wrong on this one though)
- the new book is to old army books in a way that the 8th edition RB is to older edition RBs