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NAVARRO wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:

Yes I agree if it doesn't look like the car sized spiders we have walking around the countryside then GW have messed up.

And now for some reason I really want to burn the UK with fire.

.

Really? I want to move there! I mean, if it has big bugs I will feel all cozy and cuddly

Burn the bug man! Burn him!

skrulnik wrote:What prevents GW from printing both soft and hard cover army books?

Greed. lol

"Make them in hardcover so they'll be more expensive, and don't offer paperback anymore. They'll have to pay more!"

You really think they'd go through all the trouble of giving us an option? I don't. I'd like to be wrong though, because personally I'd love expensive, full-color, hardcover army books/codices, but only if I don't need to buy one.

Not to mention it's just impractical, trying to carry around something like that to every game...

I just hope the new animosity rule is more fun. It does add character to the army, but the current rules for it are just kind of a drag.

Kroothawk wrote:More rumours by Blutkind over at Warseer:

Thanks again, Kroot.

Arachnorak:
Bigger as the Screaming Bell
Can be a mount for a shaman
Can be a mount for a bolt thrower or a net launcher (this one reduces stats).
Rare Choice

Going to be interesting. I imagine it'll be priced between 200 and 250 / 300 points, much closer to the 300 depending on how many of the stats are 7's like the rumors said (Ex: I7 probably wouldn't net too many points, nor M7. A7 and either S7, T7, or W7, however..).

Spider Stegadon, essentially, from what this looks like?

Goblin Slittaz:
Upgrade for normal Goblin units, but they are not hiding.
WS 4
A 3, Armourpiercing, ASF
Looking like Ninjas

Might buy a few for appearance's sake, but they're going to need more than that (Or Night Goblins less than they have) to make Common Gobbos a worthwhile unit (Or, more accurately, worthwhile to consider alongside Night Goblins). Well, unless you can buy multiple per unit instead of one like a DElf Assassin (two-to-three of them in a unit, as an example). A "Hero" for a common Goblin unit is nice, but it's very rare for a solitary Goblin Hero with a biting blade to turn the tide for a Common Goblin unit (Maybe if you're attacking Men-at-Arms or Skellies..). Same stats besides Initiative (In Night Goblin Favor), Leadership (In common goblin favor), armor (can be Common favor, but "vanilla" / naked a Night has better), Nights can use Fanatics and Netters, and Nights Hate Dwarf. Dwarf Hatred, higher initiative, Fanatics, Netters, and starting with shields instead of Light Armor are all notable buffs for Nights over Common, and - while this helps to give a reason for Common - that means Common are usually pushed aside unless you're doing an All-Goblin Army that isn't lead by special characters (Since only a Common Warboss can get Ld8, 9 with the BSB of +1 Leadership).

Wurzzag on foot is coming definitely.

Hopefully we'll still have him on a Boar as well.

Savage Orcs Boars 5 in one box
Savage Orcs 10 in one box, but so much parts, that you can say you have 11.

Savage I imagine will be either $25 or $30, unless GW raises their price simply because they're "better" and thus figure both more likely to be bought and standard "Better stuff costs more".

SOrcs, yeah, I'm seeing $25 to $30 a box readily enough. Still cheaper than back when they were metal, as even then 10 Metal cost more than $25, but a shame in that it'll mean something like three boxes a unit (instead of three boxes for two). Price isn't my concern, just that I'll be buying the unit more piecemeal.

General Orc boys could get a point more expensive, with a possible improvement in stats.

If they get a point more expensive, I don't think many people would whine THAT loudly. At least, depending on what changes to Animosity are made. They're still WS3, 6+ save, S3(4), T4. Not amazing for the price, but not terrible at 6pts / model either. However, I'd hope there was an improvement, as I still recall the drive from 6th to 7th Orcs where many models received point increases that either were backed by no stat changes, or decreases in statlines (For example, the Black Orc Unit Champion that went up in points and lost strength in the bargain).

Goblins could get a little cheaper.

2-2.5 points a model, with half-point wargear, would be pretty decent. Compare with a Skaven Slave:
WS = Same, BS = 1 point in Gobbo Favor. M = 1 Point Skaven Slave favor, initiative equals one-to-two point in Skaven favor, Courage vanilla is 3-4 points Gobbo favor, 0-1 favor when including special rules. Skaven Slaves explode when dead, Night Goblins animosity.

I could see 2.5 points per model, but keeping them at three with each wargear option a full point is silly. A common gobbo is the same cost as a Skaven Clanrat with the same gear (LArmor, Shield, Spear), and there it's one point leadership Gobbo favor over no-rank Skaven, WS in Skaven Favor, Move in Skaven Favor, Initiative in Skaven Favor, Animosity in Skaven's favor (since Gobbos don't really benefit from Animosity at all).

Choppa's indeed apply to any weapon.

Any Orc weapon, I hope. I imagine if GW accidentally forgets this first publish we'll see tons of people applying Choppas to Goblins.

Trolls move from rare to special, while rivertrolls and stonetrolsl remain rare.

Better do something to improve the two Rare versions. No point rises, either, unless the stats / rules are increasing too. Currently, Trolls only really shine when either:
A) Bought in packs of eight or more (Which is 320 for the cheapest variety, 480 for the others)
B) Buffed by Magic
C) Attacking Heavy Cavalry, Skirmishers, or hitting Flanks

And usually, it needs to be a combination of two of the above. River Trolls get that -1 to hit, yeah, but at a 50% price increase that's not too great (at least unless the opponent fails Fear, then it can be useful as they're now only hit on 6's). Without a failed Fear, the 50% price rise isn't made up (8 River Trolls = 12 Common Trolls price, and I'd take two six troll units over one eight River Troll unit). Stone, meanwhile, lose out due to having Last-Edition Magic Resistance, as well as a Scaly Skin save that mostly only applies when hit by Fireballs (same as their Magic Resistance), or S3 non-armor piercing shots (which still doesn't make-up their points on its own there). Some changes are hopefully in store for the Trolls, or they'll probably remain a "Used when you're facing that one Bretonnian Player" unit.

Savage Orcs get a very fun option I will reveal when the pics of the miniatures are shown, though they speak for themselves... =)

Again, just hoping that they're not... well... 40K Metal Possessed, in plastic Orcy form. The current metal models were great, just too expensive to feasibly make into 30+ sized units.

Some tidbits about the hardcover book:

BramGaunt wrote:I dunno about the price, but heraldry and uniforms is not part of the book. (...)
There's more space needed for more units, and some current army entries could get split up (eg big ones and 'normal' boys), and the lore part is supposed to be at least twice as strong, but it's still a lot of space to fill. I havn't read the book so far, and therefor I cannot say for sure, I can only guess.

Ummm, if I'm not mistaken (and if it has not already been posted before).

I noticed within the first few pages of the 8th ed Rulebook on one of the O&G army display pictures, in the top right, there was a giant spider, far larger than the current plastic Spider Riders and dwarfing the Gigantic Spider.

Can't give exact page number as of this very moment, but food for thought that maybe this could be the infamous new plastic spider?

Looks broader and about as tall as a stegadon model, resembles a giant Spider from the Spider Riders, picture isn't clear. Looks like this model has been a long time coming (so since back before September).

That's on pg. xiii. Just happened to be rereading the book and decided to look for this. It's definitely just as large as the wyvern in the same picture and there's at least 4 shields of gobbos I can see riding it.

Nice spotting, Ehsteve.

Can't take all the credit, thanks goes to my FLGS staff.

But dear god it looks awesome, I am simply trying to get my head around how they managed to put the thing together, especially considering the size of the legs/thorax and it being a plastic kit.

But then again that was my thoughts about the Hellpit Abomination.

The recent Fantasy releases have been amazing in detail and scale (unlike the unfortunate Stormraven incident for WH40k). I can't imagine this being a custom conversion or anything non-GW, why would they place this if it was a non-GW product or if the rules hadn't yet been produced for the mini?

Ehsteve wrote:Ummm, if I'm not mistaken (and if it has not already been posted before).

I noticed within the first few pages of the 8th ed Rulebook on one of the O&G army display pictures, in the top right, there was a giant spider, far larger than the current plastic Spider Riders and dwarfing the Gigantic Spider.

Can't give exact page number as of this very moment, but food for thought that maybe this could be the infamous new plastic spider?

Looks broader and about as tall as a stegadon model, resembles a giant Spider from the Spider Riders, picture isn't clear. Looks like this model has been a long time coming (so since back before September).

can you scan a picture for those of us at home?

Acardia wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:Ummm, if I'm not mistaken (and if it has not already been posted before).

I noticed within the first few pages of the 8th ed Rulebook on one of the O&G army display pictures, in the top right, there was a giant spider, far larger than the current plastic Spider Riders and dwarfing the Gigantic Spider.

Can't give exact page number as of this very moment, but food for thought that maybe this could be the infamous new plastic spider?

Looks broader and about as tall as a stegadon model, resembles a giant Spider from the Spider Riders, picture isn't clear. Looks like this model has been a long time coming (so since back before September).

can you scan a picture for those of us at home?

Unfortunately I am unequipped for such a task. Maybe someone else will be able to in the near future

That spider has been brought up before. If it is the new spider I expect O&G players will be very disappointed as it is nothing more than a 3-UP of the ordinary size forest goblin spider with a scratch-built howdah on the back.

Ehsteve wrote:Ummm, if I'm not mistaken (and if it has not already been posted before).

I noticed within the first few pages of the 8th ed Rulebook on one of the O&G army display pictures, in the top right, there was a giant spider, far larger than the current plastic Spider Riders and dwarfing the Gigantic Spider.

Can't give exact page number as of this very moment, but food for thought that maybe this could be the infamous new plastic spider?

Looks broader and about as tall as a stegadon model, resembles a giant Spider from the Spider Riders, picture isn't clear. Looks like this model has been a long time coming (so since back before September).

That is, alas, merely a converted 3 up of the existing spider riders.

..this kit is much better. Allegedly.

I believe they are making plastic savage orcs and trolls (also Stone and Normal)

Gork and Mork! Let it be that we get plastic Trolls of the Stone and Normal Troll varieties! Savage Orcs would be nice too. Any word on wolf riders or normal Goblins?

Kroothawk wrote:We get 3 new plastic sets and 3 new blisters:
Plastic:

* Savage Orc Boyz
* Savage Orc Boar Boys
* the Aracharok Spider

Blister:

* Wurrzag on foot
* Savage Orc Great shaman on boar - He is repudetedly standing on the boar and the boar is a metal version of the new boars with slightly bigger horns and some savage orc adornements (feather/bone)
* a third blister of (yet) unknown content

... and the third blister is the ninja goblins.

NINJA goblins yay! yay! yay! VERY ORIGINAL!... OH wait... Rackham 6 or 7 years ago Uraken Goblins

Huzzah! plastic savage orcs & Epic spider!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perhaps new O&G battle magic?

bloodaxegit wrote:Perhaps new O&G battle magic?

I'd say that's a given. I can't think of an army book re-do that passed up the opportunity to mess with the spells (assuming the army has a race specific lore). Expect the old favourites like Hand of Gork to stay in some form or other though.

Yay, squishing generals with mork wants ya!

I expect Brainbursta, Gazes, Hand, and Bash 'Em to remain. Bash 'Em because it's a stereotypical combat buff, Hand a stereotypical combat buff, Gazes because they work brilliantly as a Signature Spell, and Brainbursta as it fills the role of a typical Magic Missile.

Waaagh!, if kept, is probably either going to lose some bonus', change in its effects, go up in Casting Value, or some combination of the three. "Whole army can move 2D6 forward toward nearest visible enemy, enemies hit by this can only choose to Hold, all units hit by this have ASF & Re-Rolls until the end of your turn" is just too much for this edition (And, indeed, was even complained about last edition) for a 12+ Casting Value spell.

Foot and Warpath are probably going to be combined, with Foot being a lower casting value and Warpath being the "Can bounce onto other units".

'eadbutt, maybe it'll stay. Not too sure. It meets the typical "Sniping" magic requirement, but magical sniping isn't as much a commonality as magic buffs and magic missiles.

Fists seems like it'd be the "Mega" Orc Offensive Spell, if kept, likely upgraded in some manner that either increases the odds of hitting or the strength of the hits. Already it's one of the most powerful offensive spells in the game when hitting any unit 25 or more models big (Since at 25 or more models big, you're statistically breaking the most possible hits on a 2D6 magic missile when rolling average). Probably two forms, which will either have varying strength (S4 to S5?) or hit ratio (4's or 5's to hit to one less than that?).

All I really feel comfortable speculating on at the moment.

A new batch of rumours posted by Darnok over at Warseer:

1. The Araknarok can carry a rock lobber, a shaman or an icon that makes all friendly orc and goblin units and characters within 12 inches Stubborn
2. It's the biggest FB monster kit they've ever made. It's bigger than the Stegadon or the Screaming Bell
3. There's an option with the Savage Orcs to carry a stone axe so big that it takes two models to do so: that's why someone mentioned there are 11 Savage Orcs in the box...sort of. It's another figure that's specifically to help with the big axe.
4. The battalion box wasn't mentioned in the meeting he went to: he said he thinks it might come in a sort of "third wave" of releases, a couple of months after the others.
5. The rulebook's definately hardback. I can't remember if he said 112 pages or 120
6. Boys box sets are going down to 15 models, for roughly the same price.
7. Savage orc boar boys will be the same (money) price as the regular ones.
8. He didn't know how much savage orcs would cost (still talking about money, not points) but he said they'd be priced to sell in large numbers. The example he gave was Greatswords: you don't have to field any in an Empire army, and if you do you tend to field 10 or 20. So GW don't sell many of them, so they're relatively expensive to make because they need to recoup the cost of the mould. Empire State Troops sell by the bucketload, so they cost less for 10. He reckons savage orcs will be the same price as State Troops.
9. By being careful (i.e. using one as a shaman mount), it's possible to field 3 aranarok spiders in one army (??? weird. I guess they must be a lot of points?)
10. The pre-orders will be up next week.

Very disappointed that GW are dropping the number of boys in a box. Plain and simple gouging.

Da Boss wrote:Very disappointed that GW are dropping the number of boys in a box. Plain and simple gouging.

''

And easy to avoid. Just go buy a couple of the current box.

Too bad that the common gobbo boxs are not getting redone. Seems like that would be more critical than a plastic box for savage orcs.

Kroothawk wrote:A new batch of rumours posted by Darnok over at Warseer:

Once more, thanks again Kroothawk.

1. The Araknarok can carry a rock lobber, a shaman or an icon that makes all friendly orc and goblin units and characters within 12 inches Stubborn

Shaman or Rock Lobber will be best, really, unless Orcs & Goblins are suffering major changes. Goblins already should be stubborn versus pretty much anything but Skaven Slaves / Gnoblars, and Orcs tend to be fielded (if desiring stubborn) in large enough bricks to maintain likewise.

Unless the new army books are all going to push for armies to take bricks 30+ big.

2. It's the biggest FB monster kit they've ever made. It's bigger than the Stegadon or the Screaming Bell

Wait to see the final model before I judge, yay or nay. Hoping it'll be under $60 USD, though: Right now one of them is an optional unit, and given the choice between another regiment or an optional monster I usually take the former.

3. There's an option with the Savage Orcs to carry a stone axe so big that it takes two models to do so: that's why someone mentioned there are 11 Savage Orcs in the box...sort of. It's another figure that's specifically to help with the big axe.

Fantasy Tankhammer? Imagine it's something that either gets bonus dice to the roll to wound, or does D3 / D6 wounds per hit.

4. The battalion box wasn't mentioned in the meeting he went to: he said he thinks it might come in a sort of "third wave" of releases, a couple of months after the others.

Ouch. Battalion boxes (unless I'm mistaking them with another category) are usually out with the first wave. Going to guess this means the Battalion will include a lot of new models.

6. Boys box sets are going down to 15 models, for roughly the same price.

Somewhat upset, but the loss is minimized somewhat by being -4 of 19 instead of something like -10 of 20. Still a shame, though, especially if they're keeping the same models (especially since this means re-packaging boxes, to my understanding, possibly dropping two of the regular sprues for two extra command or some-such).

7. Savage orc boar boys will be the same (money) price as the regular ones.

Woo, no Orcish Blood Knights!

8. He didn't know how much savage orcs would cost (still talking about money, not points) but he said they'd be priced to sell in large numbers.

GW's under the idea that Guardsmen are priced to sell in large numbers. At 11 SOrcs, I'm predicting a solid $25. Could be like state troops, as he mentioned, but I'm doubting it somewhat.

9. By being careful (i.e. using one as a shaman mount), it's possible to field 3 aranarok spiders in one army (??? weird. I guess they must be a lot of points?)

Depends on how many points. If they're speaking for a 2K point army, that means the spider's probably about 200-250 points (or around Giant and Hydra point ranges). This would make sense with a bunch of somewhat average (Monster) stats, with most of the high ones being 7's.

You see, quite aside from all other rumours, I'm dead interested in one thing....

A non-college lore Lore Attribute.

Positively salivating at that.

No. Really. I genuinely am!

Da Boss wrote:Very disappointed that GW are dropping the number of boys in a box. Plain and simple gouging.

It would be nice if, like the 40k Orks, they got recut to have more options, but I don't see that happening given the plastic quota is already full for this wave.

2x Spiderocks and 1X Spidershaman only if model is decent... I hope it has the rock lobber and shaman as part of the kit.

I hope the spider will be amazing, if it is good I might pre-order one (They do go on pre-order on Wednesday right?)

Looking at the GW main page, it definitely looks like they're getting ready to put the Orcs & Goblins on preorder

Orcs & Goblins are already taking over the GW website. I'd definitely check the Advance Orders on Wednesday to see what's coming.