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skrulnik wrote:$38 is more than the Main Rulebooks for:
Kings of War, Warmachine, Malifaux, Firestorm Armada, Dystopian Wars, and Uncharted Seas.

The Forces of Warmachine softcovers are RRP of $35.
And are a luxury purchase. You do not need them to play.

You NEED the Orc Army Book to play.
So minimum buy in, just for rules, for an Orc and Goblin player is $113. With tax you are at $125 in my state.

This is what a Redshirt at the local GW has to convince a new player to spend, before they even pick up models.
I do not forsee GW improving their financial outlook, even with the new Hobbit license.

And we all know how smart those red shirt fellas are... the best way to "get in the game" is to find someone who's selling a mini rule book, usually bitz sellers have them for around 20-30 bucks, then get your Army book, and a batallion of the army you want to play. If it's one of the two armies in the blood island set you're in luck; just get that. That's still more than PP et al. but those games are also somewhat different games schematically...

So I wonder if they can actually make Boar Boyz useful under the current system. At I2 they are going to strike last except against a few enemies and being "heavy" cavalry will probably not be affordable enough to make mass units although they will certainly be cheaper then they are currently. With a miserable 3+ save and the preponderance of strength 4 and armor piercing attacks they are not going to survive many attacks before doing a few wounds and breaking. Of course the days of super cavalry busting through units is mostly gone but I just can't see the role for these guys unless their rules have been massively changed or there are spells that really augment them in very specific ways. It just seems odd that they would make lots of new models for them and leave them so worthless so we'll see if that is the case or not.

Also as has been said the spider is worthless in the current environment especially with it's AWESOME HUGE BASE!!!! Sticking a shaman on ton is practically a first turn death sentence. I'm hoping the first thing this book does is increase "guess range" war-machine price by 300% or something in order to significantly discourage their use and continue that trend to newer books.

Info from the GW blog about Night Goblins:

"only cost three points and they come with a spear and a shield"

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=15300001a

Slinky wrote:Info from the GW blog about Night Goblins:

"only cost three points and they come with a spear and a shield"

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=15300001a

So, how many Night Goblin users are going to be tearing apart their hand weapon-armed unit conversions if this is the default equipment?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Aranchnarok - 290 points before you add anything.

M7 WS4 BS- S5 T6 W8 I? A8 Ld10 4+ armour
Poisoned Attacks.
Every assault phase nominate one of his attacks and it will deal multiple wounds (d6).

Spider Web Lobba. Small template. S1, S3 under the hole multiple wound (d3). If the unit is hit by this template at all gains the Always Strikes Last rule until the Aranchnarok's next turn.

Or, place a Goblin Shaman on top gains the Loremaster ability (knows all Spells from the Lore known regardless of wizard level). And all channelling attemple are made at +2.

The rules sound good! For 290 points, I think that's quite a good deal... 8 wounds is kind of unprecedented for something like this. Doesn't mean it will be the best choice, as all big monsters are susceptible to shooting now, but it's a great deal compared to many other monsters out there, with the abilities it brings. Lovin' the Always Strike Last effect of the web lobba!

Flashman wrote:Looking at the Savage Orc Boar Boyz, I've realised why they are a misfire for me. The original Boar Boyz are leant foward, clutching onto the mane for balance. These new ones just look like they're going to fall off.

Completely agree... they're holding themselves on by their heels while sitting/standing straight up on top of it. It would only work if the boar was standing still...

It seems to me that whoever has been sculpting the mounted models lately has never ridden, nor seen ridden, any sort of animal. The mounted demonettes were terrible, and now these boar boys. WTH GW? No one does dressage in the UK anymore?

Some info from the new codex:


1) Animosity which is the biggest change works differently and this is how… first you roll a dice for each of your units that are eligible (which hasn’t changed except for units that are 5 or less not less than 5 which is great for units of wolf riders and things) for each unit that rolls a 1 you then roll another dice on the animosity chart which is sort of the same. the first result on the chart is the bad one which isnt that bad as it only affects 1 unit within 12 inches and even then each unit only takes D6 strength 3 hits which effects friends and foes… 2-5 is the same so nothing happens and 6 is the same but if you cant see anyone then you pivot on the spot soooooooooo yeah in my mind they have almost taken animosity out of the game as you have to roll a 1 followed by a 1 to do anything bad and even then only to a unit within 12 inches.

2) The choppa rule now benefits all close combet weapons so a black orc with a great weapon is strength 6 but in the first round of combat is now strength 7, orcs with spears are now strength 4 in the first round etc……

3) Trolls are now special and are dirt cheap (think ogre bull cheap exactly ogre bul cheap wink wink) river trolls and stone trolls are still a rare choice and have their own entries and again are cheaper to the point where im going to buy 6 river trolls now.

4) One of the best changes is that boar boys are now 16 points a model and the big’un upgrade is only 4 points a model which is still cheap so again exspect to see them in peoples armies again, and on that note orc boys big’un upgrade is only 2 pints a model 2 POINTS A MODEL but you still can only have one unit in your army. Thats one unit of big’uns in your army full stop. Black orcs are now immune to psychology and are 12 points a model 13 with a shield so we have esscentially got a shield for free now.

5) For those of you wanting the giant to change you will be dissipointed the giant has not changed in stats but i still love it.

6) And finally because i dont want to give to much away magic items well there are alot… oh yes theres lots to choose from being there are 8 MAGIC ITEMS IN THE BOOK… please take a minute to recover yes there are only 8 MAGIC ITEMS IN THE ENTIRE BOOK (not including special characters who have their own unique items) and the 8 that are there are crap I can tell you that the cheapest is 50 points and its not worth 5 soooooooooooooooooo aprt from in my mind no useful magic items to speak of orcs and goblins players are now stuck to the common items in the book. And the magic items do not include guzzla battle brew, wollopa’s on hit wonda or morks spirit totem which isnt a surprise.

So there you are those a just a small amount of things that have changed in the new book but until the release date on march 5th you’ll just have to wait for more, overall gamesworkshop have made a fantastic book which is still fun to play which is why i started an orcs nad goblins army the only bad thing is the magic items but we still have all the common items in the bokk which is more than my goblin shamen can handle.

Ugh. 2 pt Biggun upgrades? That's freakin grand. Already having a hard enough time stopping Biggun Hordes.... Now that they're cheaper, more effective, and are flanked by more crap? Yeehaw. Poor, sad dwarves.

And I hope you're dead wrong about the near total removal of animosity from the book. Wholly crap.

There better be one hell of a miscast chart/nerfing to the WAAAGH! spell and ability to justify this, 7e orcs are already freakishly strong in 8e.

No more magic items!?!?!?!?!?!

No good!

I've heard these titbits from friends who've read the book. Sorry if they've already been posted.

Black orcs are now a point cheaper.
Boar boyz are now 16pts, with spear and shield upgrades costing 2pts each.
On the magic items side, I know 3 of them.
One magic weapon, costing 100pts makes you roll a dice at the start of each CC step. The wielder gains that much S and A, but loses 1/2 the roll in WS untill the end of the phase.
One magic armour is heavy armour, granting +d3 toughnss each turn.
One magic banner gives +d6 magic resistance, and makes any magic items wielded by anyone in base contact with the carrier stop working.
Grimgor Ironhide and his Immortalz are pretty much the same, only the Immortalz gain +1WS as long as Grimgor is alive.

Also the spell 'WAAAGH' is gone, 'Brainbursta' now has the effect of 'Eadbutt', and 'Eadbutt' does something new. 'Bash 'em ladz' is still in there in one form or another.

A mass reduction in magic items would stop put a stop to broken power combos, but aside from that, it sucks a lot of character out of the individual armies.

Mekboy wrote:Also the spell 'WAAAGH' is gone, 'Brainbursta' now has the effect of 'Eadbutt', and 'Eadbutt' does something new. 'Bash 'em ladz' is still in there in one form or another.

Holy.
Friggin.
Crap.


That's.... huge.

Is the Staff of Sneaky Stealin or the Spirit totem still in?

I am looking forward to running an all spider army. The aracknarok with a Great Shaman stacked for magic is close to 600 points, but very worth it. Add in a BSB on a Spider Mount and a second Shaman on a Spider mount and you have a solid base for characters. You can then stack your core with Spider Calvery and use the small Spiders on the Aracknarok spure for the snotlings. Back it up with a second Aracknarok for a rare and then some Warmachines for support. The only issue you would have is Leadership. But that is always an issue with all goblins.

Nagashek wrote:

Mekboy wrote:Also the spell 'WAAAGH' is gone, 'Brainbursta' now has the effect of 'Eadbutt', and 'Eadbutt' does something new. 'Bash 'em ladz' is still in there in one form or another.

Holy.
Friggin.
Crap.


That's.... huge.

Is the Staff of Sneaky Stealin or the Spirit totem still in?

I'm pretty sure that Mork's Spirit totem now gives the unit +d6 MR and negates the magic items of anyone is base contact with the carrier.

Wow. Omeganerf. Fat roommate's gonna cry.

Yeah after reading the book you may as well skip the magic item section.. Theyre all total garbage for their points..

Long live common magic items!

Kirasu wrote:Yeah after reading the book you may as well skip the magic item section.. Theyre all total garbage for their points..

Long live common magic items!

Actually, the Arcane Warpaint can be worth it, so long as you consider it a "Unit Upgrade" for the Shaman instead of a "Shaman Upgrade". Again, while for the Shaman itself Armor of Destiny (sans the armor part) for a Talisman of Endurance is too expensive, but when you factor in a unit of, say, 30 Savage Orc Boyz that item now becomes a little less than a 1.5pt / model upgrade for +1 to your Ward.

Otherwise though, barring the Anti-Dwarf one when actually fighting Dwarves (in which case 50pts for +2A, +2S, Armor Piercing, and a further +1S when in the first round of a combat), most of the items are overpriced, and the Dwarf one is more appropriate for what it should cost (See: It's not overpriced or underpriced...) but only when fighting Dwarves).

The Terror + Soul Snuff item costs too much for something that, versus anything other than Ogres and Undead, will probably have minimal impact (unless you're taking it purely for the one-in-a-million shot). The D6 item doesn't make up its point value until it reaches a point that it also pretty much cancels out your ability to hit (A Common Orc Warboss with it potentially striking at WS3). The Magic Resistance D6 and neutralizing magic items banner isn't that effective, considering that you can get a MR(3) for a little less than half its cost (Which, for Savage Orcs as an example, would only be one point away from the same effect sans item negation). Spider Banner is 170% what it was last edition, same effect too. Bad Moon Banner's stubborn is a moot point since you're rarely fielding small Gobbo units, so all you really get is the Soft Cover + Dangerous Terrain (which is sorta nice, but the full hero magic point limit on giving Gobbos a shooting durability bonus isn't that great). When you consider that you can buy 16 Night Goblins for the cost of the Magic Banner, and those 16 Night Goblins will probably be more than you will lose without the Soft Cover bonus...