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waasssdddd wrote:They're fine on scouts, but what kind of IDIOT would wear power armour, or even the awesome terminator armour, wich weights as much as a tank, to leave his head unprotected and just askin' to be head shot killed by a grot!

The worst thing is, that the higher a rank of a SM, the bigger the chances of him to be helmet-free (WTF???)

[sarcasm]

I know!

And kneeling Marines! How stupid! How are they supposed to charge into battle kneeling on one knee? WTF?

And those Marines standing and not running! Anyone could just run them over with a tank, because, duh, they are just standing there!

I mean, really, everybody knows that a static, unmoving model is supposed to reflect what the 'actual' subject is doing ALL THE TIME.

[/sarcasm]

Well there is an argument to say that power armour as seen on a sm model would be so clunky that you would only be able to move your arm at a highly restricted angle. For example the moment you want to reach across your chest for whatever reason you're screwed.

Well as a Flesh Tearers player I have the alibi that they are just so blood drunk and bat crazy that they either rip some of their helmets off to drink deep the enemy’s viscera or are too berserk to realize that they fell off in the first place.

SW aren’t the only ones that can rock the helmetless look, and we have saguiniouses flowing golden locks to show off too. lol

whatwhat wrote:Well there is an argument to say that power armour as seen on a sm model would be so clunky that you would only be able to move your arm at a highly restricted angle. For example the moment you want to reach across your chest for whatever reason you're screwed.

maybe thats why the Black Templars chain their weapons to themselves, oh and why they have squires, "you neophyte! reach into my left hip pouch and retrieve the holy hand grenade of antioch!"

Laughing God wrote: we have saguiniouses flowing golden locks to show off too. lol

Perhaps all that blood has gone to your brain, or did you forget your whole chapter shaves their heads Doug?

The higher the marine, the more chance they will stick an iron halo in their armor, they don't really need one

Also im sure its a psychological thing, the higher ramk they are the more powerful they feel. I can also imagine a space marine thinking the last thing he wants his enemy to see is his actual face. Not just the same helmet as all the troops he commands.

waasssdddd wrote:They're fine on scouts, but what kind of IDIOT would wear power armour, or even the awesome terminator armour, wich weights as much as a tank, to leave his head unprotected and just askin' to be head shot killed by a grot!

The worst thing is, that the higher a rank of a SM, the bigger the chances of him to be helmet-free (WTF???)

Obvious troll is obvious.

I also think that people gravely over-estimate the protective power of helmets. In reality, helmets have only ever protected the wearer against glancing blows like poorly aimed sword swings, or shrapnel. Helmets have NEVER protected wearers against direct hits.

But let's say for a moment that warped pieces of metal have some degree of durability. This doesn't change the fact that you still have all that force going into your HEAD. Sure, an exploding bolt may hypothetically be prevented from penetrating by this hypothetically impenetrable helmet, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the force of the exploding bolt is still transferred directly to the marine's face. The fact that the round didn't technically penetrate is poor consolation when your brains have been turned into goop that are now leaking out the bottom of your helmet.

The only way that a helmet would stand any chance of keeping someone safe was if they were built like racing cars - designed to explode on impact. Perhaps that's why they're not wearing them - they actually brought real ones, and they've already been used to save the marine.

C'mon guys. We're all nerds here. We're all perfectly happy accepting the idea that a thong bikini made out of leather on a girl is just as protective as a full body steel-reinforced leather outfit is on a guy. But, someone taking off a helmet is totally unrealistic?

As tvtropes says: In the 40k universe, Rule of Cool is physics.

What dumbass goes into battle without a helmet.

Asherian Command wrote:What dumbass goes into battle without a helmet.

A bumbass who just doesn't care.

Or Good enough to go without it
All those who goes without helmet is either space wolves or really really good

or wearing Iron Halo, which confers as much protection as a singular helmet

Grakmar wrote:C'mon guys. We're all nerds here. We're all perfectly happy accepting the idea that a thong bikini made out of leather on a girl is just as protective as a full body steel-reinforced leather outfit is on a guy. But, someone taking off a helmet is totally unrealistic?

QFT! Yea bare heads would be dumb in actuality. You wouldn't find me going into battle without it. But, then again I'm not a genetically engineered super soldier with multiple organs and probably don't really need my brain to follow the orders of my superiors.

In the case of the Space Wolves we are proud. We don't want you to see a helmet we want you to see a fanged face yelling at you as the last sight you see before you die.

And I am perfectly aware of the pointer of headshots. But honor is more important then your life.

And I must say most of the vanilla marine heads are too damn boring and bald and screaming.

well amongst a group of warriors that eschews camouflage and paints their armor in the various colors of the rainbow you can already see that 'tactical pragmatism' is out the window, stand to reason they'd take their most crucial form of protection of as well. and people judge the Emperors Children for being self absorbed...

To the OP: There is a section in Soul Hunter which I believe you will enjoy a great deal!

I won't give anything away, but I have a feeling that the author of that book may well feel the same way as you

Shadowbrand wrote:In the case of the Space Wolves we are proud. We don't want you to see a helmet we want you to see a fanged face yelling at you as the last sight you see before you die.

And I am perfectly aware of the pointer of headshots. But honor is more important then your life.

And I must say most of the vanilla marine heads are too damn boring and bald and screaming.

Totally. Especially the ugly terminator heads..God, they're all the same!

Chaos Marines are almost always wearing helmets from what I can tell. Except for those dreadful unhelmeted ones on the sprue....

Grakmar wrote:C'mon guys. We're all nerds here. We're all perfectly happy accepting the idea that a thong bikini made out of leather on a girl is just as protective as a full body steel-reinforced leather outfit is on a guy. But, someone taking off a helmet is totally unrealistic?

Quoted for truth.

Faith is our shield?

IIRC, in a few of the HH books, they mention that some marines prefer operating helmet-less as it gives them greater manoeuvrability and peripheral vision.

I'm guessing it's similar to a tank commander deciding between whether to ride buttoned up, or to keep the top hatch open. If he keeps the hatch open, the tanks is more vulnerable, but he has a better chance of spotting threats before they arrive.

If he buttons up, the tank can take fire better, but might not see the infantryman sneaking up on it with a Molotov.

ClosetRoller wrote:IIRC, in a few of the HH books, they mention that some marines prefer operating helmet-less as it gives them greater manoeuvrability and peripheral vision.

In A Thousand Sons there's an amusing line where the Thousand Sons marines are told to pick out stupid, helmetless Space Wolves from the pack.

I also think that people gravely over-estimate the protective power of helmets. In reality, helmets have only ever protected the wearer against glancing blows like poorly aimed sword swings, or shrapnel. Helmets have NEVER protected wearers against direct hits.

But let's say for a moment that warped pieces of metal have some degree of durability. This doesn't change the fact that you still have all that force going into your HEAD. Sure, an exploding bolt may hypothetically be prevented from penetrating by this hypothetically impenetrable helmet, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the force of the exploding bolt is still transferred directly to the marine's face. The fact that the round didn't technically penetrate is poor consolation when your brains have been turned into goop that are now leaking out the bottom of your helmet.

The only way that a helmet would stand any chance of keeping someone safe was if they were built like racing cars - designed to explode on impact. Perhaps that's why they're not wearing them - they actually brought real ones, and they've already been used to save the marine.

Did you ever see a SM miniature? Those helmets are attached to the carapace, and therefore distribute the force of the impact across the whole armour, thus making it far less powerfull

Ailaros wrote:I also think that people gravely over-estimate the protective power of helmets. In reality, helmets have only ever protected the wearer against glancing blows like poorly aimed sword swings, or shrapnel. Helmets have NEVER protected wearers against direct hits.

But let's say for a moment that warped pieces of metal have some degree of durability. This doesn't change the fact that you still have all that force going into your HEAD. Sure, an exploding bolt may hypothetically be prevented from penetrating by this hypothetically impenetrable helmet, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the force of the exploding bolt is still transferred directly to the marine's face. The fact that the round didn't technically penetrate is poor consolation when your brains have been turned into goop that are now leaking out the bottom of your helmet.

The only way that a helmet would stand any chance of keeping someone safe was if they were built like racing cars - designed to explode on impact. Perhaps that's why they're not wearing them - they actually brought real ones, and they've already been used to save the marine.

I'm sorry, did you not realize that we're in the 41st millennium?
They have stone that reacts and shapes itself to song, blades a molecule thin, and flamethrower rings.
I'm pretty sure they can form a helmet that can take more than just glancing blows.
Which, in a TON of fluffy fiction, they do.
There are numerous stories that have marines getting hit in the face with stubber rounds and las-bolts and being pretty much fine. Sometimes they have to take the helmet off, sometimes not. Occasionally, a marine can survive a bolt round to the face.
Plot armor. Sexy, awesome plot armor.

Oh, and I've also read stories of un-helmeted marines taking las-bolts and small stubber rounds to the head and being okay.
Because they're goddamned Space Marines.

Source? 'Tons' of fluffy fiction, and 'read stories' doesn't count. Which stories? What fiction? Was it official or what?

Yeah Chris, make sure everyone properly cites their sources for this fictional world. Break out the bibliography, IT'S WIKIPEDIA TIME!*

Round these parts, though, we have a saying: "It's dangerous outside, put on your goddamn helmet!".


*If you shout that phase in the style of the Red Power Ranger, you will feel good in your body parts I promise.

Lifes hard. Wear a helmet.

I like to try and think basic debating rules apply even for a fictional universe. Citing sources is important, no matter what the debate.