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You can disallow anything you want, it's up to the TO. For instance at GT's I don't see any IA muck being thrown about.

List tailoring is best left for children and bad players imo ...

Also after being told that the loaders only work for the first time they fire is helpful.

You left out the 2 mystics he normally runs with the inq

You could also get yourself a squad of tacticals in a pod, a min scout squad, Libby with MotA and MC. Then take 2 LRAs and laugh as everything bounces

Grimaldi wrote:
If IA is a fully sanctioned GW product, why isn't it ever allowed at any of the GW run major tournaments (GT)? It's for casual games and fluff, not for serious competitive play because it can easily be abused into a monstrosity.

^^ as above
IG is really overly represented in IA, and while some is fun and fluffy, they can make some really ridicilous armies as this thread has shown.
You don't need 'tons' of los blocking terrain, because any army fighting this list really only needs one turn of good shooting and the tanks are dead.
punkow: why can't you dissalow IA, it isn't allowed in /any/ tournaments that I know of, just because of this. Also in tournaments you run the same army all the way through, not tune to your enemy every game because you can.
Just for logics sake, I wouldn't allow someone to take IA stuff /and/ GK allies, that's just nonsense.
Remember we're allowing IA here, so a tyranid opponent could take a gargantuan trygon, a necron player could take a pylon, ect. ect. I think one of the real is that the other players aren't cranking up the IA retardation.
The other real issue I see here is you are likely playing WYSIWYG, and many other armies need absurdly expensive FW models while IG doesn't.

Grundz wrote:Remember we're allowing IA here, so a tyranid opponent could take a gargantuan trygon, a necron player could take a pylon, ect. ect. I think one of the real is that the other players aren't cranking up the IA retardation.
The other real issue I see here is you are likely playing WYSIWYG, and many other armies need absurdly expensive FW models while IG doesn't.

Bingo. That was one complaint I've heard from another player.

Tyranid player couldn't take a Trygon, Necron couldn't take a Pylon.

those are restricted by IA rules to Appoc games only.


IA books contain normal AND Appoc units. They are very clear that the Appoc units are Appoc only.

The problem also occurs that the IA books may contain baneblades but the Army List section of the book/updated pdf does not allow baneblades or any superheavies. The army list section was built with regular 40k games in mind, not allowing these kinds of things for a reason.

And while IA stuff is allowed, super heavies were not.

Just make the FoC a must that being the one from his codex w/o any IA nonsense.

If you still want to allow IA make it limited.

I also want to point out he needs the printed daemonhunters codex to ally not just the pdf

Someone should play daemons =)

Aduro wrote:And while IA stuff is allowed, super heavies were not.

Alright well then I give up, I fail to see the logic in allowing a series of books that primarly have equipment for one army and then disallowing most of the other armies additions, then acting supprised when a WAAC player dominates the field.

That's like complaining that it's unfair Xeno codex's get updated less often that Marine ones.

it may not be fair, but them's the breaks.

The guy wants to run IA? Bring two Land Raider achilles with 75 point scout squads inside for the lulz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The guy wants to run IA? Bring two Land Raider achilles with 75 point scout squads inside for the lulz

Am I insane, or does he have something incredible that kills 2+ armor stealthed someplace within his list?

3x Tyrannofex and some Hive Guard hug cover, crush the Vendies on T1 or 2, then plow forward to shoot/CC tanks.

Lysander, 2 stealthed G2G scout squads (in fortified ruins, nonetheless), and 600 pts of TH/SS Terminators go sprinting across the table shrugging hits.

A Logan Grimnar multimelta long fang squad hops out of a drop pod and vaporizes 2 of his tanks T1.

Anything else in Drop Pods.

2 Land Raiders with MM upgrade and SM Scouts with fist serg + 100 pt HQ with Fist go chucking up the table to say hi... enough points left over for MM speeders or a Drop Pod.

sourclams wrote:Am I insane, or does he have something incredible that kills 2+ armor stealthed someplace within his list?

Nope, they're right out there in the open. Those three Vendettas and their 9 twin-linked lascannons.

3x Tyrannofex and some Hive Guard hug cover, crush the Vendies on T1 or 2, then plow forward to shoot/CC tanks

And that leaves you how many points for an HQ and two troops at 1000 points?

Lysander, 2 stealthed G2G scout squads (in fortified ruins, nonetheless), and 600 pts of TH/SS Terminators go sprinting across the table shrugging hits.

A Logan Grimnar multimelta long fang squad hops out of a drop pod and vaporizes 2 of his tanks T1.

Anything else in Drop Pods.

2 Land Raiders with MM upgrade and SM Scouts with fist serg + 100 pt HQ with Fist go chucking up the table to say hi... enough points left over for MM speeders or a Drop Pod.

We have only a single person doing Marines, and it's Vanilla. He was also the only one to beat this guy at 1k with the drop pods, it's all the non-Marines that need the help.

I would maybe try landraider spam if anyone plays marines. Battle cannons and even lascannons are not that well suited to AV14. Not saying it's good but I would try it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At the same time your lascannons wouldn't be that good against his AV 14

Bugs with zoeys in pods, or 70 infiltrating genestealers.
Orks with deathkoptas for the russes and lootas for the vendettas
Eldar fire dragons in serpents, outflanking scatterlaser walkers
Dark eldar lance spam, baron for first turn
Ig -more vendettas, hope for 1st turn

If IA is allowed, why aren't folks whipping out the drop pods that you can assault out of and filling them up with powerfists and dreadnoughts?

Dashofpepper wrote:If IA is allowed, why aren't folks whipping out the drop pods that you can assault out of and filling them up with powerfists and dreadnoughts?

What he said.

Because all that was allowed was the Imperial Armored Battlegroup Army List updated pdf. It mainly just changes the FOC

This is the army list that was allowed by Aduro starting at pp. 17 of the pdf: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA1update28AUG.pdf

No superheavies or flyers are in the list (they say they are flyers for imperial navy support but earlier in the actual entry it says to use them as fast skimmers in non-apoc) Most of the units that are in the Armored Battlegroup that are not in the IG codex, really are pointless vehicles that would serve little purpose such as trojans, turrets, and other things you might notice.

The list strips out all options the IG have in HQ/Elites(cept stormies)/Troops and gives me Leman Russes and Armored Fist Squads.

Then includes the ace skills which may only be taken one per tank.

6 KPs is strong; Tabling will be needed in Annihilation missions.

Objective missions are easily won so long as you do not get tabled(which i find unlikely).

How to beat it:

Nids:
Traditional Nidzilla, or Nidzilla expanded universe should do the trick. By expanded universe I mean Spodding in the Big-bugs. A winged Tyrant, 3(or so) Carnifexs in Spods, Warriors for the troops(maybe in Spods) and 3 Zoan broods with Spods. Don't worry about shooting, just asault the tanks and Planes.

The Eldar will have an easier time; They have lances aplenty.
For Craftword: 3 min units of Fire dragons(duh) riding in Bright-lance serpents(that's 3 T-L lance shots and the serpents ignore battle cannon bonus penetration and can only be damaged max 50% of the time from any shots); i would advocate multiple small units of guardians for this list, each with a lance weapon team(dual Fusion Storm guardians would work well too), And Fire Prisms or Falcons for HS.
For DE: Basic DL/Blaster Spam; Raiders, Ravagers, Wariors with Blasters, Blast pistols on whoever can take them. Scourges with Heatlances would be good here as well.

Most games that did not have my opponent biffing dice rolls or unable to bring the right units due to need for painting points, have either ended in a loss for myself or relatively close games.

Kommissar Kel wrote:
Nids:
Traditional Nidzilla, or Nidzilla expanded universe should do the trick. By expanded universe I mean Spodding in the Big-bugs. A winged Tyrant, 3(or so) Carnifexs in Spods, Warriors for the troops(maybe in Spods) and 3 Zoan broods with Spods. Don't worry about shooting, just asault the tanks and Planes.

And that only comes out 390pts over if you take bare minimum sized units with zero upgrades.

As far as DE are concerned more lance weapons arent really a credible option. The list I faced had 3 double shooting lemans, 2 chimeras and 2 tank hunting hydras. Now since his command tank + extra armor mitigates all shaken and stunned results and he doesnt need to move to shoot so immobolised results are fairly who cares as well the only numbers on the chart that matter are 3 5 and 6.

so a single dark lance has a 66% chance to hit and a 50% chance to inflict damage. 16% of the time you glance and only 16% of the time will he care. you have a 33% chance to get a penetrating hit followed by a 50% to get a result he cares about.

so for a single dark lance you have a 1% chance to get the result you want on a glancing hit and a 10% on a penetrating. Any other result means his return salvo is completely unhindered.

check my math if im wrong GF on the phone and im trying to do both lol GF AGRO

Lets see 66% chance of hitting with DL.

33% chance of Penetrate, 16% change of glance.

for Pens, it's a 50% chance for tank to be neutralized(WD and killed/explodes rolls)

for Glances it's a 16% chance of neutralization.


2/3 times 1/2 times 2/3 gives .22222...


Each Dark or Bright Lance has a 22% chance(co0mbined Pens and Glances) of taking a LR out of action permantly by either removing the Battlecannon or killing it outright.

the same results apply to Vendettas/Valks.


That's not too bad if you take a good number of Brightlances. it's certaintly better then Lascannons.

I think your math is a little off. For a lance, you have two things to add up.

2/3 hit, 1/3 pens, 1/2 of pens are either destroyed or weapon destroyed, which comes to 11.11%

add in

2/3 his, 1/6 glance and 1/6 result in weapon destroyed for 1.8%.

Together, that give you about a 13% chance to do something meaningful with a dark lance. That assumes no cover save (as all vendettas will start with).

The odds for the vehicles the IA is shooting at won't be as good.

Haemonculus w/ Webway 85

3x 4 Trueborn w/ 2 Dark Lances

1x 3 Wracks

3x 5 Warriors, 1 w/ Blaster

3 Reavers, 1 w/ Heat Lance

3 Talos w/ Heat Lance


It's especially good if he tailors (or whatever you want to call it) and brings the non-vendetta version. Hopefully you can hide ONE model (the Haemonculus) on your non-LOS-blocking boards. If he's taking the Vendetta version, you might want to put Haywire Blasters on the Talos instead.

The vs. DE list on tuesday looked like so:

Company Command Tank
-Lascannon
-Extra Armor
-Slick Loaders

Leman Russ Battle Tank
-Lascannon
-Slick Loaders

Leman Russ Battle Tank
-Lascannon
-Slick Loaders

Armored Fist Squad
-Autocannon
-Ace Gunners (tank hunters)

Armored Fist Squad
-Autocannon
-Ace Gunners (tank hunters)

Hydra
-Ace Gunners (tank hunters)

Hydra
-Ace Gunners (tank hunters)
_________________________

Not sure on the reavers, have not really had a go through the new DE book. Enlightenment on them might help.

So the plan of your list is to use the webway portal to walk on from, I'm assuming, to utilize the short range weaponry.

Yes, they are slow, but you place the webway before the game starts after I have deployed. All one has to do is space out the lemans and just drive away from the portal. Now you would have footslogging troops with short range weapons and no way to really get to the different models.

Prove me wrong if I assumed something false because I really have not had a chance to look over the new book at all. Cuz the Webway just counts as a table edge so you'd still have to come in via reserves, possibly never getting some units til turn 5.

the webway portal is placed in the models shooting phase and cannot be in a transport to do it.

anywhere on the board or is there a range?

the only things that would give you any trouble in the list at all would be the Talos, and even then they could be quickly dealt with. Haywire blasters arent the answer for IA since most of their shots are glancing which IA doesnt care about

it will have to be placed btb contact with him IIRC
which isnt bad and it's in lieu of his shooting.

deploy 12, move 12, disembark2, 26" portal range ... recomended portal is a small blast marker 2.5" and 28.5" on a 48" board (insert beastmasters here)