What can you do with 3D Printing?

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**Daggermaw**

Also I would like to point out that you yourself whatwhat are violating GW's expansive and asinine IP policy.

**Lonecoon**

Daggermaw wrote:I don't understand why this forum is full of so many people that are concerned about GW and their IP. Seriously, I don't get it.
Someone posts something cool like this and gets sidelong glances about IP infringement and everything. This is the only hobby where I've ever seen this happen.
I build and work on a lot of motorcycles and "IP infringement" happens all the time. I take a blank fender and cut and shape it until it's almost an exact replica of a Harley or Honda fender for 1/5 the price and show it off on forums and people are congratualting me and asking me how to do it.
I know some guys that actually cast offical Harley parts with some mods and sell them as customs.
As far as GW parts, I've recasted some for myself, have given some parts to friends and so forth. Am i infringing on IP? Probably. Is anyone going to do anything about it? Definitely not.

I really don't give damn about IP. If GW wants to bust my balls about this, they'll send me a cease and desist. It's no different than if I was hand making the pieces I need. Even if I was making these up and selling them for a profit, it still wouldn't matter. Could I call them meltagun or lascanons? Probably not, as GW probably has those terms copyrighted. Can I call them flame guns and Laser cannons? You're damn right I can. I'll probably ditch the double eagle and go for a single, but it really doesn't matter. I could put a cobra command symbol on them and it still wouldn't matter.

TCWarRoom wrote:Need IG shotguns!!!

I'll get to work on those next week. I have a publishing to work on for the rest of the week.

**whatwhat**

chaos0xomega wrote:
whatwhat wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:I think this is more like what he was after:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-headed_eagle

The double eagle is not a GW trademark/copyright, the stylized double eagle w/ one blindfolded head however, is. The eagle used in the work here kind of straddles the line, but as far as I know, its perfectl legal, but I'm not an IP lawyer, and neither are you.

GW have the trademark over the double headed eagle on wargaming miniatures, that's a fact.

If I used the Mcdonalds logo for my burger bar I couldn't get away with showing the court the wikipedia page for the letter M when Mcdonalds brought me to court over it.

by the by I would point out I did say: "IF you are concerned about ifringing their IP". I'm not telling him he shouldn't do it. Me I wouldn't care.

...YOU ARE NOT AN IP LAWYER.

chaos0xomega wrote:Daggermaw, I'm right there with you on all counts (except I'm not involved with motorcycles), but totally agreed. I can understand someone saying something about it if they work for GW in a legal capacity, or hell if they happen to be an IP lawyer and are offering unsolicited advice (which probably wouldn't happen because there are potential legal ramifications to that in itself), but we're hobbyists working away at our hobby. You can scream bloody murder about it all day long, but its not going to stop anyone from doing it.

In fact, I'm partially convinced its a jealousy type thing: "Damn, I wish I had thought of that, thats really cool... well you know what, it infringes GW's IP and is therefore illegal and uncool so nyah!" I myself have been guilty of that in the past...

Wow seriously? What's up your craw?

I don't need to be an IP lawyer to acknowledge the FACT that the double headed eagle is a registered trademark of GW. Trademarks are trademarks not intelectual property. And again if you read what I said I'm not shoving laws down his neck I said "IF he is concerned he should know...." not "DONT DO IT YOU ARE COMMITING BLOODY MURDER".

**ironicsilence**

lots of fussing in this thread about IP this and IP that....why dont we leave the legal talk to GW and instead focus on what this guy is doing

**RiTides**

I just bought a Makerbot 3d printer kit, which I am currently putting together...

However, if I use it for my hobby, it will be for very generic things (such as a cannon or cannon chassis for fantasy) that are based on historical things and not on GW designs.

I won't have the level of detail that Shapeways can do, though... having bits printed by 3d printers is definitely on the horizon, and perhaps even GW will start doing it- who knows?

**ironicsilence**

can you get the same level of detail with 3D printing vs GW's current mold process? Wonder how the pricing on large scale compares for 3D printing vs current process

**Mohoc**

3D printing would work great for initial sculpts, however the materials used tend to be very brittle compared to other comercial plastics. So I can see them using them to create inital molds, but for mass production it is to slow and not very suitable, yet.

**Lucid**

My brother has started 3D printing his own Tabletop game pieces, and (no offense to the OP) with much greater detail. I've seen the stuff, and the plastic may be more brittle, but unless I let my dog chew on it or toss it across the room I wouldn't be concerned about damaging it.

I think its a great idea, and wouldn't be ashamed to thow some of those on my own armies. Its great for TT quality. Wouldn't be putting it on any dioramas tho.

all in all, good job.

**Mit Gas**

I considered doing a few Thousand Sons heads for my army and have them printed. Fact is, I own that old 1k sons mini like 12 times but getting the head out of it is almost impossible and I bear enough marks of tzeentch (= scars) for trying. Still got the models from the mod, so that's a good start.

**RiTides**

Mohoc wrote:3D printing would work great for initial sculpts, however the materials used tend to be very brittle compared to other comercial plastics. So I can see them using them to create inital molds, but for mass production it is to slow and not very suitable, yet.

You're exactly right! Raging Heroes is currently doing this exactly:
http://www.ragingheroes.com/blogs/news/1774352-miracle-3d-prints-of-kahn-urkan

The next step is for things to become cheap enough, with a high enough resolution, to use them for actual in-game models. I don't see the technology being quite to this point yet, but it's getting there!

**Lonecoon**

Lucid wrote:My brother has started 3D printing his own Tabletop game pieces, and (no offense to the OP) with much greater detail. I've seen the stuff, and the plastic may be more brittle, but unless I let my dog chew on it or toss it across the room I wouldn't be concerned about damaging it.

I think its a great idea, and wouldn't be ashamed to thow some of those on my own armies. Its great for TT quality. Wouldn't be putting it on any dioramas tho.

all in all, good job.

Is he using more elaborate models or a different service? If he's using more elaborate models, good on him; I'm using CAD software because I suck big time with blender. If he's using a different service, what's he using?

**Necros**

Could you 3D print something like cadian "leggings" that look like the bottom of trench coats with boots sticking out of the bottom? I'd buy that for a dollar!

or is it really just for flat things?

**RiTides**

Lonecoon wrote:Is he using more elaborate models or a different service? If he's using more elaborate models, good on him; I'm using CAD software because I suck big time with blender. If he's using a different service, what's he using?

Blender is really hard to pick up, imho. I tried for about a week (on company time, too) and had very little success. I've found more "standard" CAD software to be much easier to work with (pro engineer and solidworks are the main ones I've used).

However, for smooth models these are unfortunately not ideal :-/

**Hans Chung-Otterson**

I'm sure the day will come when 3d printing is quality enough that the mold model will be obsolete. Is it even a question that GW will go to 3d printing someday? Hopefully that'll lower prices a bit.

**Black Bear**

guys why do you get so touchy over this ip stuff but love scratch builds? and by the way what program are you using? Google sketch-up or pro-engineer? and how precise can the printers be?

**Flinty**

I don't think people are necessarily bothered by breach of copyright and trademarks, however this is supposed to be a friendly community and it it often worthwhile for friends to point out when you might be breaking the law. There is nothing to stop you scratchbuilding your own work, or even producing stuff for your own use with certain types of IP attached. However when you start producing stuff in an industrial manner that is based on someone else's legal propertry you can get into sticky situations.

**Mohoc**

Black Bear wrote:guys why do you get so touchy over this ip stuff but love scratch builds? and by the way what program are you using? Google sketch-up or pro-engineer? and how precise can the printers be?

It varies. The high end printers use resin that hardens when exposed to light of a certain wave length of light, which means they can do some great detail. More conventional 3D printers use a layering technique that is good for about .1-.15 milimeters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereolithography (3D laser printer, the most accurate)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fused_Deposition_Modeling (less accurate but faster, home 3d printers work on this principle)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_laser_sintering (this is kind of a mix between the other two printing systems, combining the best of both systems)

**Lonecoon**

Black Bear wrote:guys why do you get so touchy over this ip stuff but love scratch builds? and by the way what program are you using? Google sketch-up or pro-engineer? and how precise can the printers be?

I use Google Sketch up, which is convenient in that it won't let me make things smaller than .1mm which is the detail resolution. You're limited to .2mm wall size, but they recommend 1mm walls.

Necros wrote:Could you 3D print something like cadian "leggings" that look like the bottom of trench coats with boots sticking out of the bottom? I'd buy that for a dollar!

or is it really just for flat things?

As long as you're good with your CADing program or 3d modeler, you can make whatever you want. I'm not skilled enough yet with SketchUp to do what you want, but I've got a friend who's working on some female Catachans for me.

**cadbren**

Hans Chung-Otterson wrote:I'm sure the day will come when 3d printing is quality enough that the mold model will be obsolete. Is it even a question that GW will go to 3d printing someday? Hopefully that'll lower prices a bit.

lol. Just like getting stuff made in china has made things cheaper.

And now for some IP infringementifcation.

**d-usa**

This is a great idea. I was thinking about goofing around with some Roman Legion Skaven (the treated XXIII Company), and have been looking around for some roman shields (scutum) to see if I like the look of my Skaven Clanrats running around with them. (Skaven running around in a testudo formation seems like a tactical decision they would make).

I have not been able to find a suitable model, especially considering the skaven are hunched over, so I might have to learn CAD to make some....

Now if anybody else wants to give it a try

**Taoofss**

If you make something for yourself, with no intentions of selling, you are not infringing on any IP.

**d-usa**

The only true issue I could see anyone running into using a company like Shapeways regarding IP is making problems for Shapeways.

Even though you are submitting the files, and receiving the product, Shapeways would be the only company possibly running into an IP issue because they are making money selling something with GW IP on it....

**Necros**

But isn't that the same thing as something like getting your own 40k eagle emblem design on a t-shirt from cafepress.com? You upload the image, they print it onto a shirt and sell it to you. Would cafepress be at fault? or the person that made the shirt? or both? or neither?

**Branderic**

I can't wait to get my RepRap Mendel going.

**Zefig**

Lonecoon, thanks for posting this. I didn't realize there were actually affordable services to do stuff like this. I've whipped up pro/e models of a few ships and things before with vague notions of eventually making models of them, but this is inspiring me to actually make up some custom pieces that have been causing me some trouble.

Might try my hand at some power scythes for my assault troops. Possibly a few custom chapter pauldrons.

Might even have to dig up the mobius strip I did for a project a couple years back just for funzies...

**d-usa**

Necros wrote:But isn't that the same thing as something like getting your own 40k eagle emblem design on a t-shirt from cafepress.com? You upload the image, they print it onto a shirt and sell it to you. Would cafepress be at fault? or the person that made the shirt? or both? or neither?

I will happily say that I have no idea whatsoever, it was just a motion of "I would think" with no actual experience or knowledge to back it up....

**Darkwynn**

How about making Terrain kits or say Dark Eldar towers for display boards. That would be cool.

**Necros**

Could you use 3D printing to make space corridors or industrial towers?

**Flinty**

Almost certainly. As long as the item to be made is smaller than the printer active volume you could fabricate it. How robust it would end up being would depend on the individual system and materials used.

**Grass4hopper**

Thanks for sharing this information, it amazing what technology can affordable do now days.

You 2nd Melta design looks a lot better, as does the 2nd lascannon. Personally I feel they need just a little more detail work to perfect them, specifically rounding some of edges slightly.

That being said, I don't know how to do any of this kind of design, so I applaud your effort.

EDIT: and I love the O.G.R.Y.N., but I wonder if it would look better with joints more like the Sentinel legs, instead of the ball joins on the big arm.