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Neither do Possessed or Spawn, but they're plastic.

And such good choices those turned out to be .. Bet GW wants to replicate the success of spawn and possessed

I am hoping for plastics. Could be fun to give me a few more "fluffy" bits. My old grot models, now becoming my wrack squad, had to be my favorite unit to make. The local group consisted of every army but Necs. I simply bought their old bits and made a ten man unit. Nothing like seeing the confusion that a space marine torso attached to tau legs using dire avenger and storm trooper arms with the head of a gaunt causes as it rips through your units.

Still wish the Grots had their old "you run away" rule. That would be worth taking to me.

Have to disagree with those saying Grotesques & Wracks aren't perfect for plastic. The images and fluff in the codex show/describe them all as being different and varied. I would LOVE the opportunity to assemble these things as a bunch of individuals, with no 2 alike!

Also, I'd love to see Haemon's as a 3 model plastic kit.

Eric

Kirasu wrote:And such good choices those turned out to be .. Bet GW wants to replicate the success of spawn and possessed

Except that wracks and grotesques are actually worth fielding

Besides, river trolls also got in (unless they're going to radically change them for 8th)

Kirasu wrote:And such good choices those turned out to be .. Bet GW wants to replicate the success of spawn and possessed

Which has all of nothing to do with the claim that models like Wracks/Grostesqes cannot be in plastic because they are 'non-standard'. The fact that Spawn and Possessed have rules that suck is the fault of the people who wrote them, not the way the models were designed.

Two more sources on new DE models, this time in March!

Frgt/10 wrote:interesting
this doesnt quite fit in with what ive heard (although it still might)

there are new dark eldar models coming in march
this isnt the 2nd wave however

edit: i'd assume hastings is aware of these as well

time2die wrote:This is what I've been hearing, too.
Think along animalistic, beastly lines.

That would make an awesome release. I'll be expecting confirmations, pics and such ^^

Looking at the artwork of the Wracks and Grotesques (which is probably a reasonably accurate indication of what the models are going to look like), there is a chance that they'd do a set of sprues that enable you to build either Wracks or Grotesques (much like the Lootas/Burna Boyz set). While Grotesques are larger than Wracks, most of the bulk seems to be in the torso and arms. So they could theoretically provide optional optional upper body parts. And, you'd hope, a Haemonculous with some optional bits (again, much like the Mek in the Lootas/Burna Boyz set). I suspect this is all a bit much to expect - if the artwork is definitive, then Wracks and Grotesques aren't going to have any compatible parts. I reckon it's more likely we'll see one or the other of these units in metal, and I think metal Wracks are more likely than plastic ones (they would be easy to sculpt) while the Grotesques are more likely to be plastic because GW clearly prefers to do larger models in plastic (and models that are substantially bigger than a human are much more practical in plastic). Either way, it would make a lot of sense to include a Haemonculous with the plastic models.

To be fair though, those Grots and Wracks could be made from Chaos Demon sprues easily enough, and looking at the artwork, I don't see too much difference between what the DE have and what could be found in the realm of chaos.....

Would be great to get some specific models for the various units though.

Erasoketa wrote:That would make an awesome release. I'll be expecting confirmations, pics and such ^^

Hehe, I think we'll be waiting a while for pics. I heard from a friend who works for GW that the guy who leaked that stormraven pic was fired two hours later.

It should be clear by now that Wracks and Grotesques won't be plastic but metal. Scourges deserve much more to be plastic as they have loads of weapon options not possible with metal models, Wracks and Grotesques do not (only one in 5 or 10 may take a different weapon plus the boss).

Kroothawk wrote:It should be clear by now that Wracks and Grotesques won't be plastic but metal. Scourges deserve much more to be plastic as they have loads of weapon options not possible with metal models, Wracks and Grotesques do not (only one in 5 or 10 may take a different weapon plus the boss).

It should also be clear that what we want, and why, is not always going to be what GW is doing.
; )

Wracks & gotesques, I wager, will see more use than scourges. IMO, there are far more opportunities for them. So, creating them in large plastic units seems more cost effective (for me, at least). Plus, with their varied appearances, a la Spawn, plastic sprues are more sensible.
Even with weapon options, I think scourges will be used less often by gamers.


I should clarify, however. I think that, profits aside, all models are better off if in plastic.

Also, if Wracks and Grotesques come out in metal, I really will convert all of mine, just to have the plastic models.
Same for Haemons.

Eric

Ya, it is clear Krootster, just wishlisting. Back in the day I didn't do much sculpting and converting, but now I scarcely consider doing a mini without heavy personalization. Metals just make it so much tougher, and since i like the look of the concept art, I just wish I could populate my bitz box with such awesome work.

Still, to me it seems like if you are going to have more than 5 models of a type in an army, or even if it's just possible, they should go plastic if at all economically viable.

Scourges NEED to be plastic; too many options, plus opportunities to get all those special weapons out there for Trueborn, etc. Don't need any more Venoms, likely, but will look at those Razorwing/Voidraven kits and likely pick up a few.

Wracks and Grotesques... I can see why they don't need plastics and it really boils down to options. They have very few: Liquifier Gun and "sergeant." Now, if the Wrack kit was easily convertable into Haemonculi, that would be something, but I haven't needed it. I've put together 20+ wracks and 6 haemonculi out of various parts of wyches, warriors, crypt ghouls, flagellants, and chaos marauders. They do the job nicely, so I don't really have a concern about whether or not they make a plastic or metal kit aside from maybe bolstering the ranks with a few "official" models if they look cool.

Grotesques, I have no interest in fielding, so I'll separate myself from that conversation except to say that ogres, rat ogres and the like could EASILY be converted.

More details from Warseer:

Frgt/10 wrote:only metal models in march
and not just beastly ones; one of them is quite the opposite in fact
no venom in march, they're saving it for the 2nd wave

75hastings69 wrote:these would be some of the metal kits, Clawed Fiend, Chimera etc. I'm really hoping for Sslithe minis butr haven't heard anything about them
March? Really? seems odd with that month being aimed at the relaunch of WFB O&G and as I know the releases for those I can't see them letting new DE models play secong fiddle, I think you'll find April will be DE and more than just a few metal minis

Skarboy wrote:Scourges NEED to be plastic; too many options, plus opportunities to get all those special weapons out there for Trueborn, etc. Don't need any more Venoms, likely, but will look at those Razorwing/Voidraven kits and likely pick up a few.

Wracks and Grotesques... I can see why they don't need plastics and it really boils down to options. They have very few: Liquifier Gun and "sergeant." Now, if the Wrack kit was easily convertable into Haemonculi, that would be something, but I haven't needed it. I've put together 20+ wracks and 6 haemonculi out of various parts of wyches, warriors, crypt ghouls, flagellants, and chaos marauders. They do the job nicely, so I don't really have a concern about whether or not they make a plastic or metal kit aside from maybe bolstering the ranks with a few "official" models if they look cool.

Grotesques, I have no interest in fielding, so I'll separate myself from that conversation except to say that ogres, rat ogres and the like could EASILY be converted.

Re: Scourges-
That's the thing, though. You're talking about getting bits for other units. While I agree they're needed, they aren't needed for scourges (IMO). As they'll (again, IMO) be little used, the special weapon models would be sold separately in metal.

Re: Grotesques-
Agreed. I'm converting Chaos Spawn.

Re: Making your own Wracks & Haemons-
Don't tease me, man! Where's your WIP thread? : )

Eric

Re: Scourges-
That's the thing, though. You're talking about getting bits for other units. While I agree they're needed, they aren't needed for scourges (IMO). As they'll (again, IMO) be little used, the special weapon models would be sold separately in metal.

Actually, if you look at the Scourge entry...they have far more options than the Trueborn do. The Trueborn would just be an "alternative" way to make them.

(Not trying to pick a fight with you, just sayin'. The only options that Trueborn can field that Scourges can't is a Phantasm Grenade Launcher and Splinter Pistols/CCWs.)

From listening to 40k radio lately, it seems like the bit really needed for DE that is missing atm for current choices is haywire grenades to model onto minis in order to clearly identify which guys are holding them in a squad. Hopefully the scourges will have a few on the sprue.

I agree that, regardless of our preferences, plastic scourges seem more likely than plastic Wracks. It comes down to Scourges having lots of different options available to the unit, and Wracks having almost none.

MagickalMemories wrote:Re: Scourges-
That's the thing, though. You're talking about getting bits for other units. While I agree they're needed, they aren't needed for scourges (IMO). As they'll (again, IMO) be little used, the special weapon models would be sold separately in metal.

Re: Grotesques-
Agreed. I'm converting Chaos Spawn.

Re: Making your own Wracks & Haemons-
Don't tease me, man! Where's your WIP thread? : )

Eric

Another reason for plastic scourges: wings. Do you want to make a unit with thin bird wings out of metal or have them in plastic, where they will stay together better and be much more easily repaired and transported? My point about the weapons is that it kills two birds in one stone: you might get people to buy Scourge kits just for the weapon options, whereas the Wracks/Grotesques won't. The other part about the weapons, Scourges get some unique guns (heat lances for infantry, haywire blasters) that deserve representation and wouldn't be that well served through a metal model. Anyway, just my two cents.

I didn't do any WIP photos, etc. of the Wracks and Haemonculi. I could post some photos of them (and six Venoms) with a brief how-to, but am at work. I'll see if I can post something later in the P&M section on both.

Well, if nothing else, I'd love to see pics of the completed works, as I am converting my own Wracks from Flagellents, Ghouls and Tzeench Horrors.
If Wracks truly do come out in metal, I don't foresee buying any.

I understand, re: scourge wings. You have a point there. I also understand about the weapon options.

My thoughts are based on this, though. Typically, GW makes models in plastic if they expect it to sell boat loads. Models that will not sell as many (characters, etc) tend to be made in metal.

Using that thought process, and keeping each unit to itself, I think Wracks would outsell Scourges. Again, that's barring those who buy scourges to use the weapon options for other units. Also, if you read the descriptions of Wracks, it leaves a lot of room open for each one to look different. A plastic kit would be perfect for that.

That's my thought process... Wracks will be used by the handfull in Haemon armies, so would be better suited to plastic (again, that's just IMO), so as to be cheaper in bulk.

My though is that, if Scourges were metal, they could be done like the old metal GK models. Sell a box of 5, with 1 "sgt" and 1 'special' weapon. Then, sell other special weapon models separately.

Since, I suspect, actual scourge units won't see a huge amount of use, small runs of metal models would be less expensive, considering the well publicized cost differences for creating metal vs. plastic models.

Like with Orks, GW could just turn around and sell plastic sprues of extra special weapons options.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:Well, if nothing else, I'd love to see pics of the completed works, as I am converting my own Wracks from Flagellents, Ghouls and Tzeench Horrors.
If Wracks truly do come out in metal, I don't foresee buying any.

I understand, re: scourge wings. You have a point there. I also understand about the weapon options.

My thoughts are based on this, though. Typically, GW makes models in plastic if they expect it to sell boat loads. Models that will not sell as many (characters, etc) tend to be made in metal.

Using that thought process, and keeping each unit to itself, I think Wracks would outsell Scourges. Again, that's barring those who buy scourges to use the weapon options for other units. Also, if you read the descriptions of Wracks, it leaves a lot of room open for each one to look different. A plastic kit would be perfect for that.

I'm not so sure about this. Wracks are going to be fairly standardized--simply because they're always a Dark Eldar who's volunteered for the surgery. But also, another problem is simply that if they did it in plastic they might end up selling a plastic kit the same size as the metal box, but at almost triple the price because of the options included.

The Grotesques, in my opinion, would be a better option for a plastic kit for Haemonculi, especially if it were done like the Rat Ogres and included parts for making a Haemonculi or two.

That's my thought process... Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemon armies, so would be better suited to plastic (again, that's just IMO), so as to be cheaper in bulk.

But there's the rub, isn't it? Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemonculi armies. They're not something that you're too likely to see in a themed Wych Cult or Kabalite army.

My thought is that, if Scourges were metal, they could be done like the old metal GK models. Sell a box of 5, with 1 "sgt" and 1 'special' weapon. Then, sell other special weapon models separately.
Since, I suspect, actual scourge units won't see a huge amount of use, small runs of metal models would be less expensive, considering the well publicized cost differences for creating metal vs. plastic models.
Like with Orks, GW could just turn around and sell plastic sprues of extra special weapons options.
Eric

It's not a terrible thought, but at the same time I do think it's mistaken. Plastic kits tend to be done with things that have the potential to be used by every variant permutation you might see in that specific army. Given that Scourges are, according to fluff, basically granted immunity against any hostilities by any Dark Eldar...I'd say you could make a reasonable assumption that they would be acceptable in any "themed" Dark Eldar force.

Plus, depending on how the kit looks it wouldn't just work as Kabalite Trueborn. They could also be used to make Swooping Hawks, thus opening up an even bigger potential market.

grak wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:That would make an awesome release. I'll be expecting confirmations, pics and such ^^

Hehe, I think we'll be waiting a while for pics. I heard from a friend who works for GW that the guy who leaked that stormraven pic was fired two hours later.

Wow, that was fast. Anyway, I enjoy the "rumour process", it will be cool to know when it happens xD

Kroothawk wrote:It should be clear by now that Wracks and Grotesques won't be plastic but metal. Scourges deserve much more to be plastic as they have loads of weapon options not possible with metal models, Wracks and Grotesques do not (only one in 5 or 10 may take a different weapon plus the boss).

If the amount of new plastic moulds per year is limited for GW, I wouldn't see much trouble having this minis in metal. I would be worried about two details: the prices, and how hard or easy would be the Grotesques to assemble.

BTW, one of the things that had been said previously was that the Haemi stuff would arrive later. So who knows, we might get plastic Wracks and Grotesques later and that metal kits in OP would be just Special Characters blisters and the like...

But there's the rub, isn't it? Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemonculi armies. They're not something that you're too likely to see in a themed Wych Cult or Kabalite army.

Errr....and the 90% of people who run unthemed or tournament lists? I've never seen you chipping in on a DE listbuilding or background thread, it mildly amuses me to note how you're proclaiming what we all will and won't buy.

Ketara wrote:

But there's the rub, isn't it? Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemonculi armies. They're not something that you're too likely to see in a themed Wych Cult or Kabalite army.

Errr....and the 90% of people who run unthemed or tournament lists? I've never seen you chipping in on a DE listbuilding or background thread, it mildly amuses me to note how you're proclaiming what we all will and won't buy.

Uh, actually I've "chipped in" on plenty regarding background.

It, however, doesn't change the fact that Wracks really are exclusively a Haemonculi item and are an Elite choice unless a Haemonculi is taken as HQ.

It also doesn't change the amusing notion that you seem to think that my opinion is a definitive fact.

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

But there's the rub, isn't it? Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemonculi armies. They're not something that you're too likely to see in a themed Wych Cult or Kabalite army.

Errr....and the 90% of people who run unthemed or tournament lists? I've never seen you chipping in on a DE listbuilding or background thread, it mildly amuses me to note how you're proclaiming what we all will and won't buy.

Uh, actually I've "chipped in" on plenty regarding background.

It, however, doesn't change the fact that Wracks really are exclusively a Haemonculi item and are an Elite choice unless a Haemonculi is taken as HQ.

It also doesn't change the amusing notion that you seem to think that my opinion is a definitive fact.

No, its more the way you stated it as fact rather than opinion. I oft think you'd have less squabbles here on Dakka if you'd learn to distinguish between the two.

The fact remains that the Haemonculus and Wracks are excellent options that many people will choose to run. Possessing a single Haemonculus and a single squad of wracks in your army does not make it a Haemonculus themed force. It just means it probably falls into that other 90% of people I mentioned who choose to run bits and pieces of everything to make an effective list, as opposed to theming deliberately one way or another. Thus meaning that they will be used by more than the 'handful in Haemonculi armies'.

Being an elite choice normally, is usually enough to make it a metal unit, see Eldar.
On the positive side: Metal models are usually more complex and awesome than plastic sculpts. Let's hope they get 5 different models, not just 3 like with Mandrakes.

Kanluwen wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:Well, if nothing else, I'd love to see pics of the completed works, as I am converting my own Wracks from Flagellents, Ghouls and Tzeench Horrors.
If Wracks truly do come out in metal, I don't foresee buying any.

I understand, re: scourge wings. You have a point there. I also understand about the weapon options.

My thoughts are based on this, though. Typically, GW makes models in plastic if they expect it to sell boat loads. Models that will not sell as many (characters, etc) tend to be made in metal.

Using that thought process, and keeping each unit to itself, I think Wracks would outsell Scourges. Again, that's barring those who buy scourges to use the weapon options for other units. Also, if you read the descriptions of Wracks, it leaves a lot of room open for each one to look different. A plastic kit would be perfect for that.

I'm not so sure about this. Wracks are going to be fairly standardized--simply because they're always a Dark Eldar who's volunteered for the surgery. But also, another problem is simply that if they did it in plastic they might end up selling a plastic kit the same size as the metal box, but at almost triple the price because of the options included.

The Grotesques, in my opinion, would be a better option for a plastic kit for Haemonculi, especially if it were done like the Rat Ogres and included parts for making a Haemonculi or two.

That's my thought process... Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemon armies, so would be better suited to plastic (again, that's just IMO), so as to be cheaper in bulk.

But there's the rub, isn't it? Wracks will be used by the handful in Haemonculi armies. They're not something that you're too likely to see in a themed Wych Cult or Kabalite army.

My thought is that, if Scourges were metal, they could be done like the old metal GK models. Sell a box of 5, with 1 "sgt" and 1 'special' weapon. Then, sell other special weapon models separately.
Since, I suspect, actual scourge units won't see a huge amount of use, small runs of metal models would be less expensive, considering the well publicized cost differences for creating metal vs. plastic models.
Like with Orks, GW could just turn around and sell plastic sprues of extra special weapons options.
Eric

It's not a terrible thought, but at the same time I do think it's mistaken. Plastic kits tend to be done with things that have the potential to be used by every variant permutation you might see in that specific army. Given that Scourges are, according to fluff, basically granted immunity against any hostilities by any Dark Eldar...I'd say you could make a reasonable assumption that they would be acceptable in any "themed" Dark Eldar force.

Plus, depending on how the kit looks it wouldn't just work as Kabalite Trueborn. They could also be used to make Swooping Hawks, thus opening up an even bigger potential market.

You'll notice that I've got "my opinion", "I do think", or "likely" all in that post.

There was nothing stated as definitive fact, outside of the part regarding Scourges and their place in Dark Eldar society or the fact that Wracks are created from Dark Eldar who voluntarily surrender themselves.

So please, read all of a post before commenting. I wouldn't have had to "squabble" with you right now if you'd read the statements thoroughly.

Regarding why scourges should be plastic and wracks should be metal...

Do mini company SERIOUSLY decide the material of a model based on how many 'options' the current set of rules allow?

Does this make business sense?

This seems more like hobbiest logic than reality.

I could understand (but not like) we'll make them metal and charge more because they'll be popular...but we make 'em plastic so people can buy them for bitz or field all the different options for a unit that will be signifgantly less play does not make good business sense.