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TyraelVladinhurst wrote:marine models will most of the time look better then the conversion (storm raven aside) however xenos conversions are usually ALWAYS better

Funny how different people are. I feel completely the opposite. Imo, because SMs all look the same, as well as have seamed joints, easy to cut and glue, their conversions are easier and almost always turn out better than GWs oh-so-creative stale poses. This is also why I'm never impressed by converted marine armies. Even their vehicles all derive from the same chassis.

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:and faith in GW? no i think not, look how they screwed over anyone who's NOT marines

As far as Dark Eldar go, they have yet to disappoint me (Urien Ratharth aside).

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Better example- Nids..

Half the codex missing, and THE most-used monster has no kit..

Guard may be missing some of their spiiffy variants, but they still have tnaks galore, and none of the missing variants is totally vital to the list..

agreed, or better still SW or from 4th ED dark angels

So they have screwed over at least some marines... I still have to disagree, since I believe marines are the most easily converted army.

Thats a mater of opinion... In my case, i would make an Hamonculi Cult army just for the oportunity to convert and kitbash (almost) my entire army...

I dont like "marines with nid arms" or "orks with nids bits", in my opinion, the beutifull about kitbashing is to create a model with lots of parts, that not everyone would recognize at first glance...

If you really think you lack a "wrack kit" take a look on fantasy material (undeads, daemons, marauders), and stick them with some DE bitz, its not hard and dont look silly.

And remember, the lack of plastic kits for wracks and grotesques means other units getting their plastic kits, as these two are easily convertable, i really prefer they dont come in plastic, opening the "slot" for another options (like the Scourges).

Aditionally, wracks should look diferent for each army. Each Haemonculi build their own wracks as they like it. When 2 haemonculi face each other, they should have very different looking forces at their disposal, not the same models in each side...

Just my cents in it...

Agreed - I hope GW leaves wracks and such for Kitbashing. Better that way.

I agree with the comments saying that wracks should be individual to each army but I would love to see a multi part plastic kit for them as the models released so far are incredible. I don't use Dark Eldar but I had to get some of the new Incubi and Mandrakes because they are so damn cool and I will probably be adding some Kabalite warriors and Wyches pretty soon. Since the new models follow the artwork of the codex pretty closely I would like to see if the next wave of models follows the trend as the Scourges and Haemonculi artwork looks very interesting.

You guys are gonna be changing your tune when GW releases models for Wracks... Mark my words.

Archonate wrote: You guys are gonna be changing your tune when GW releases models for Wracks... Mark my words.

Not sure I will.
All rumors point to metal wracks. I have metal models. I especially hate metal models for units where no two are supposed to look exactly alike, per fluff.

As for Urien... I don't get it. Why all the hate, guys? I think he's pretty cool looking.


Eric

Archonate wrote: As for Urien... I don't get it. Why all the hate, guys? I think he's pretty cool looking.
Eric

i agree with you on that

Hydras aren't vital to the Guard, just nice to have. It's not like you can''t throw insane amounts of firepower downrange with the available kits..

I liked Urien, but thought the model a little busy. I borrowed a few of his arms and am in the process of converting him a consort

MagickalMemories wrote:All rumors point to metal wracks. I have metal models. I especially hate metal models for units where no two are supposed to look exactly alike, per fluff.

As for Urien... I don't get it. Why all the hate, guys? I think he's pretty cool looking.

Urien is a very awesome model, the reason I started a Haemonculi cult army.

The only rumors I heard was that Jes wanted to figure out a way to release Wrack vehicle crewmen... that implies to me that they have wracks, at least conceptually, envisioned as plastic.

I think that the sentiment that Wracks should be converted is fine one, but only for the people who want multiple units, using them as a centerpiece to their army. The guy who has wyche army and needs only a single squad should be able to do so more easily.

With the price of selling metal models jumping too quickly to be indeffiniately sustainable GW is moving away from metal models. GW has said now that almost all armies have been given a codex with a range of multi-part kits that cover units with lots of options they want to move into doing more plastic kits to cover units with a single configuration. The Eldar Aspect warriors have been given as an example of this. I would think wracks are much the same.

Mewiththeface wrote:

Archonate wrote:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hm, wrack and grotesques alredy have plastic kits... they are called Ork Boyz/Nobz and Gaunts/Genestealers... seriously, no hard work in it...
At least on my point of view, Haemonculi cabals are a great excuse for kitbashing

From my point of view that's not going to be good enough. No matter how awesome people think their conversions are, I bet they're going to look like garbage next to the real models. Just because Urien Rakarth got a horrible model, doesn't mean the other Homunculi (and their creations) will as well. Have a little faith!

I agree. There is nothing more that I hate then seeing an ork arm glued to a nid body or a nid arm glued to a marine body. That almost pisses me off at how horrible it is. There are very few well done conversions using different body parts from different armies. I think GW will make great wracks and grotesques because even if they look like then Beastmans minotaur, its okay because they aren't normal looking.

Do you even hate mine?

Very cool looking. In any case, there's nothing stopping folks from making their own Wracks as opposed to any that may be released. However, it is very nice when a codex actually has a model for every unit available.

Sarigar wrote:Very cool looking. In any case, there's nothing stopping folks from making their own Wracks as opposed to any that may be released. However, it is very nice when a codex actually has a model for every unit available.

.

Thanks for the comments. I tried to stick to the fluff of the codex too when Urien sided with the Tau against the Tyranids. Strange how the kroot are more useful in my Dark Eldar army than my tau army.

WOW! Got a How-to Blog? I love the minis!

Scottywan82 wrote:WOW! Got a How-to Blog? I love the minis!

Not exactly, but I do have a ton of WIP pics here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/341108.page

Basically they were kroot at first. I added leather greenstuff skirts, tyranid and human arms. Warriors of Chaos bitz for the helmets and weapons. I grafted a bunch of tyrnaid bitz on to them too. The Grotesques were made similarly but instead of a Kroot base mini, I used Chaos Spawn.

Maybe I don't like the Urien model because he looks like an awful conversion to me.

@Lord Scythican: All I'm gonna say about your Wracks conversions (and anyone else's) is that I'm happy you're satisfied with them. Such things are what this hobby is about, and frankly, that's all that matters.

I would hate if GW refused even a metal Wrack kit because "gamers can convert".

Feth that. I don't want to convert a unit that I might want to take 6 of. I don't mind doing conversions for Character models or a single squad as it's a couple of hours of my time plus another couple for painting.

I have no problem with people wanting to use all bits available and converting but the option SHOULD be there for those of us who are too lazy, with disposable income enough to buy GW brand Wracks and/or who realize nothing we convert can ever look as good as Jes' models.

I'm converting some OK Bulls to look like Grotesques but it's a PITA; they will never look as good as Jes' Grotesques and while a lot cheaper it is a unit that for all intents purposes I will only ever use 1-3 of. If I need to shell out $15-20 per model for Jes' Grotesques I'm sure I'll shell out that kind of money, especially if I only need to buy 8 more to get my 3x4 units of them in Raiders with attached Haemo.

FW, my issue is VERY not about cost.
As much as I dislike and refuse to pay GW retail, I can easily afford to.
My issue is about plastic vs. metal. I'd immensely rather have a plastic kit with enough options to make a bunch of different Wracks than a metal kit like the mandrakes. They look good, but there's only so many different poses available.

I agree on the conversions. I dug into my Wrack conversions, got 3 done, and I'm just dreading doing any more. There are SO many other things I'd rather be doing than converting 10, 20, 30 models.

That said, my dislike for GW retail, I admit, WILL cause me to compare metal wracks to non-GW metal proxies for coolness factor.

Eric

kestral wrote:Agreed - I hope GW leaves wracks and such for Kitbashing. Better that way.

You can kitbash even if there are models available, make them available for us who feel like kitbashing looks like crap, I'm seeing I'm not the only one in this thread who feels that way.

I don't really get that, either...part of the reason why we're all into this hobby to begin with is the awesome (in most cases anyway) models, right?

Well, I want to buy and field awesome models, and now it's insinuated that I'm lazy or unimaginative because of it.

Sidstyler wrote:I don't really get that, either...part of the reason why we're all into this hobby to begin with is the awesome (in most cases anyway) models, right?

Well, I want to buy and field awesome models, and now it's insinuated that I'm lazy or unimaginative because of it.

This is a good point! I think it's silly that we get called lazy because we prefer GWS models over converting. And honestly, just because some people are good at conversions, others of us have no idea what we're doing.

The Fragile Breath wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I don't really get that, either...part of the reason why we're all into this hobby to begin with is the awesome (in most cases anyway) models, right?

Well, I want to buy and field awesome models, and now it's insinuated that I'm lazy or unimaginative because of it.

This is a good point! I think it's silly that we get called lazy because we prefer GWS models over converting. And honestly, just because some people are good at conversions, others of us have no idea what we're doing.

I agree on all points. I like making conversions, but I would rather actually have a voidraven model than a batwing with raider bitz. Its not lazy to want official models. A lot of times conversions are for impatient people who really like a unit and want something now rather than much later. Other times it is for units that do not have a model and might not get one soon. Valkia the Bloody is a good example. I like the unit but I have no idea when they will make a model. I plan on converting one, but I would much rather have an official one.

Sometimes conversions are a good replacement if you are strapped for cash. For instance, I want about 30 wracks, but I do not want 10 copies of 3 very similar looking wracks which will be the case when GW makes them in metal later this year. I really don't have the cash to buy 30 models and since I have useless kroot and some fluff to support the conversion, I might as well chop them up and make use of them.

so far, i haven't been a big fan of most conversions i've seen. the main reason is that they look too dirty, haphazard and low-tech. i mean, Dark Eldar have access to some of the most advanced technology in the galaxy, and the Haemonculi have been honing their craft for millennia. why would they have something that looks like a zombie that just crawled out of the most decrepit hive-world butcher shop? all that said, i do think those are some pretty good wracks/grotesqques.

as for the Urien model, i like Diaz's work, and i think it's a decent-looking model. my main problem with it is thematic. to me, the best thing about the old Urien model was that he had that evil ear-to-ear grin. i think that a Haemonculus should have an expression on his face like: "I LOVE my job!" at least in battle. the way the fluff is written up, they literally get high off of carnage, so the petulant, sullen, angry/constipated expression on the face of the new Urien just doesn't sit well with the fluff of how they're supposed to be: haughty sadists who revel in bloodshed.

If they do wrack models the thing that would make them work properly is if they did ones based off different races, but they only way they would do that is through forgeworld...

you might get a couple of different ones...kinda like how guard you can get cadian, catachan and some of the others but they just use the same rules, it would basically have to be a mix of human based grotesques with some eldar/darkeldar some tau (totally to go with the story about rakarth and the tau) maybe some nids and some other races to go with it....

me for one i would definitely buy wrack models, especially if they plastic cause depending on how they go you could easily mix and match them with other parts to make them look more like they are fleshy abominations made from different parts of different creatures sown together in a frankensteins monster kinda of way....

And i dont get how people can not like the urien rakarth model....i guess i can see that he looks a little busy but you could easily just not put all the extra limbs and what not on him...

Also i would definitely like voidraven and venomwing in one kit just like talos and chronos.....

and as far as a duke sliscus model goes im not too sure how that would work....unless it was multiple parts as he never goes to battle wearing the same thing as he did in previous battles so he would have to have different options so as to make your duke different from the next persons....

but they definitely need to do some more of the special characters, i would prefer a new drazhar (a similar pose to lelith would work) or a decapitator/kheradruakh would be cool, or possibly a lady malys...even though she seems like someone i wouldnt use.....except if i knew i was facing GK which from some rumours seem like they all count as psykers or maybe if i was facing eldar

Sidstyler wrote:I don't really get that, either...part of the reason why we're all into this hobby to begin with is the awesome (in most cases anyway) models, right?

Well, I want to buy and field awesome models, and now it's insinuated that I'm lazy or unimaginative because of it.

I agree. And while I love converting, I don't have any problem at all with GW turning out stuff that doesn't need to be converted.

Lord Scythian - those Wracks and Grotesques are great. The point was made that cross-matching parts from different kits is often done badly, but your conversions are very skillful, and you've taken the extra effort to modify the bits rather than just throwing them together. I really like them

Krusshk, the last post was over three weeks old when you made yours. This falls under the heading of the dreaded Thread Necromancy!