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@SumYoungGuy
Wow. Well if that is how you faces challenges then I feel sorry for you.

@Loki
Really, every single solitary SM lis tin existence has a libby and that libby will always be within 24" of the Zoeys? I hope you see how inaccurate such a sweeping statement is. Zoeys will are still strength 10 ap1, that is the best thing you can get at range against this.

And you know what REALLY works, Trygons with adrenal glands. 7 attacks on the charge, rerolls to hit, average AP of 14. With that many attacks, you will average several pens. If the tank moves cruising speed, you dictating what it does and you still average two hits, plus you are faster.

And so what if Hive Guard take a long time to kill it? It is a 300 point tank! It should be hard to kill.

@Alex Holker
Sisters? Easy.
Cannoness with jump pack and master crafted eviscerator. Average AP: 13, with 4 attacks on the charge and a reroll, she will have a 10/36 chance of penning with every attack, which means that against a stationary target: almost assured a pen, against a 6" move, good odds, flat out: about 1/3 chance. Again, if you force the tank to move curising, it can only fire one weapon, the cannoness can go 2++ and absorb any heat (not to mention a seraphim squad to absorb wounds). Take 2 cannonesses and now you double your odds on a very mobile, stubborn, resilient platform. Before anyone tries to counter this, I run a triple raider wolf army and had two cannonesses destroy two LR's with disgusting ease (and no, I was not playing poorly or any such BS, so please don't try and shovel that my way). The math supports it and smart play will enable it to occur.

Also, you're three exorcists (which you should have) will average 8 hits, 1.3 glances and the ap1 mitigates the -1, so you will be stunning it consistently and either preventing it from moving or reducing it to one shot, possibly immobilizing it or destroying a weapon. Add in the pelthora of melta weapons and you will wear it down without much difficulty. And if you really want to get funky fresh: Penitent Engines, they will wreck this thing. A squad of three will take it down in HtH with little difficulty.

Now, while you all cry into your beers about the inhumanity of this vehicle, you all do realize that destroying a Monolith for strength 8 armies is usually harder as you don;t get a bonus for being an MC or for using a TH or Eviscerator, right? And monolith can't be stunned to death, you have to roll a 6 on the glance table with an AP1 weapon? Don't hear any complaints about Crons though!

Guys, this is one tank! It won't win the game, for crying out loud, ignore it if you are that worried about it and kill everything else, just like with a monolith. And, unlike a monolith, you will typically only see one of these.

And again, I am not trying to insult any of you personally, just having a laugh at the chicken little syndrome here. People freak out about models all the time. A super falcon in 4th ed took something like 100+ las cannon shots to reliably kill and you routinely fought 3 of those in tournaments. None of us rolled over and played dead then, we found a solution and played through it.

So don't worry about! Think of creative ways to contain it or destroy it instead of boohooing!

Reecius wrote:@Loki
Really, every single solitary SM lis tin existence has a libby and that libby will always be within 24" of the Zoeys? I hope you see how inaccurate such a sweeping statement is. Zoeys will are still strength 10 ap1, that is the best thing you can get at range against this.

Most Space Marine armies have a Librarian, yeah. And if they see Zoanthropes, they'd be dumb not to have him near that thing for added protection. He doesn't really need to make sure he's within 24" of the Zoanthropes if he stays with the Achilles.

Reecius wrote:And you know what REALLY works, Trygons with adrenal glands. 7 attacks on the charge, rerolls to hit, average AP of 14. With that many attacks, you will average several pens. If the tank moves cruising speed, you dictating what it does and you still average two hits, plus you are faster.

That gives it a base strength of 7. Even with the 2D6 to penetrate from being an MC, you have to be very lucky to kill the Achilles in one turn, especially thanks to having -1 on the damage table. And yes, one turn, because you can bet that Trygon will be public enemy #1 in the marine players next turn.

Reecius wrote:And so what if Hive Guard take a long time to kill it? It is a 300 point tank! It should be hard to kill.

A Trygon Prime is a 250 point monstrous creature, and bites it after 6 easy to make krak missile wounds. It takes far more S8 hits to reliably kill the Achilles.

The Achilles is just too hard to kill. Things like that aren't fun to play against. For many armies, in any objective based mission, if you stick a scoring unit in it, there's one objective they can't take, and for Capture and Control they can play for a draw at best. For KP games, you can deny opponents up to 3 KP's with it.

Too hard to kill. If it lost the -1 to damage results rule, or the immunity rules, it'd be fine. Both makes it stupid resilient. Against lascannons, it's twice as hard to kill as a Monolith for instance.

There are just too many ways it can be abused with the current mission objectives.

Sisters? Easy.
Cannoness with jump pack and master crafted eviscerator. Average AP: 13, with 4 attacks on the charge and a reroll, she will have a 10/36 chance of penning with every attack, which means that against a stationary target: almost assured a pen, against a 6" move, good odds, flat out: about 1/3 chance. Again, if you force the tank to move curising, it can only fire one weapon, the cannoness can go 2++ and absorb any heat (not to mention a seraphim squad to absorb wounds). Take 2 cannonesses and now you double your odds on a very mobile, stubborn, resilient platform. Before anyone tries to counter this, I run a triple raider wolf army and had two cannonesses destroy two LR's with disgusting ease (and no, I was not playing poorly or any such BS, so please don't try and shovel that my way). The math supports it and smart play will enable it to occur.

While possible, with two Cannonness Eviscerators, you need an average of 21.6 attacks to ensure one kill result against this thing assuming no movement. That goes to 43.2 if it moved at all, and 130 if it moved. With two Evisc Cannonnesses, that's 3, 6, and 16 charges with full attacks respectively to ensure destruction depending on movement rate. Double what it takes to kill a normal LR.

Also, you're three exorcists (which you should have) will average 8 hits, 1.3 glances and the ap1 mitigates the -1, so you will be stunning it consistently and either preventing it from moving or reducing it to one shot, possibly immobilizing it or destroying a weapon. Add in the pelthora of melta weapons and you will wear it down without much difficulty. And if you really want to get funky fresh: Penitent Engines, they will wreck this thing. A squad of three will take it down in HtH with little difficulty.

Unfotunately though it takes a huge number of weapons to deal with this thing. You need an average of 108 BS4 Exorcist missiles or Meltagun hits to plink it enough to ensure destruction of the TFC and two MM's and immobilize it. Against a normal LR you have a 1/54 chance of killing it outright without needing to strip everything. A normal BS4 Meltagun has just under a 1/5 chance to kill a normal Land Raider. With this thing, it becomes ridiculous.

And this is all assuming nothing has to get through a cover save.

Pentitent engines might be capable, but they are also grossly overcosted and it's highly likely they'll get blasted on the way in.

It's just too hard to kill, too good at holding objectives and keeping KP's safe from harm, with a huge threat radius and two exceptionally capable, if short-ish ranged AT guns.

you all do realize that destroying a Monolith for strength 8 armies is usually harder as you don;t get a bonus for being an MC or for using a TH or Eviscerator, right? And monolith can't be stunned to death, you have to roll a 6 on the glance table with an AP1 weapon? Don't hear any complaints about Crons though!

A monolith can't hit units 60" away and can't put out the same heavy AT fire, isn't safeguarding units on an objective, doesn't have smoke launchers, isn't hiding KP's, is much easier to destroy with S9+ weaponry, and isn't available to armies that can field large amounts of armor and capable assault troops and huge numbers of long range heavy weapons.

If you remember to 3E and 4E, there were tons of complaints about the monolith constantly. The only reason there aren't any now is that Necrons, as a whole, aren't exactly on the anywhere near the same competitive level as most other armies.

So don't worry about! Think of creative ways to contain it or destroy it instead of boohooing!

That's sort of the problem. It's not something you can just bring and throw down, it's something that needs to be tailored against, even at its huge point cost.

Yes, it is hard to kill, but it isn't game over by default.

For many armies the monolith is just as hard to kill.

My only point between the teasing, was that to just quit and take your models and go home is a bad attitude to have. What does that accomplish?

Play the game out and try to win, the challenge makes victory sweeter.

Haha, now I am going to buy an Achilles just because!

Reecius wrote:@Alex Holker
Sisters? Easy.
Cannoness with jump pack and master crafted eviscerator. Average AP: 13, with 4 attacks on the charge and a reroll, she will have a 10/36 chance of penning with every attack, which means that against a stationary target: almost assured a pen, against a 6" move, good odds, flat out: about 1/3 chance.

There's no reason for the vehicle to ever be stationary, since it can always fire all three guns while moving 6": one as normal, one for PotMS and a Subterrainean blast as a defensive weapon. That means an average of 2.25 hits on the charge, 0.63 penetrating hits and 0.31 glancing hits, and a 36% chance of doing any lasting damage.

Also, you're three exorcists (which you should have) will average 8 hits, 1.3 glances and the ap1 mitigates the -1, so you will be stunning it consistently and either preventing it from moving or reducing it to one shot, possibly immobilizing it or destroying a weapon. Add in the pelthora of melta weapons and you will wear it down without much difficulty. And if you really want to get funky fresh: Penitent Engines, they will wreck this thing. A squad of three will take it down in HtH with little difficulty.

You cannot stun it, because it has Extra Armour as standard. And even if you can consistently shake it, you've just tied up 400 points and 3 HS slots of long-range antitank to do a half-assed job of suppressing a 300 point, 1 HS slot tank for one turn. That's a losing proposition right from the start.

And Penitent Engines are AV11, open-topped walkers. How are you going to get them into melee with a vehicle armed with two twin-linked Multimeltas and a Thunderfire cannon?

My only point between the teasing, was that to just quit and take your models and go home is a bad attitude to have. What does that accomplish?

Equally so, refusing to NOT play with the Achilles when your opponent points out that both it is far too hard to kill (without a full seer council Eldar would have a lot of trouble) and would make for a less entertaining game, especially for them, and then telling them to suck it up and try is a bad attitude to have.

The Achilles is a strange beast. It really seems like it balanced with Apocalypse in mind, kind of like the Terminus pattern Land Raider. There's D strength weapons, and even multiple high strength weapons, being thrown around that can hurt it. Hell, even Tyranids can hurt it if they bring a Hierophant or barbed Hierodule and focus a round of Biocannon fire on it.

They should have just made it as a datasheet, instead of a heavy support entry.

i've fought against this beast before.... but my two vindicators and devistator squad with lascannons saw it's death by turn 4. so in my opinion not that powerful

SumYungGui wrote:Big boy pants? Afraid of losing? Seriously? What crappy arguments.

We're not 'arguing' with you. We're 'mocking' you.

"Oh the noes! It's the cheesx0r! I refuse to play it."

So hilarious...

Erm... I don't think I would play against it. It would tear my bikes to pieces and give my lr's a hard time due to the melta and the termies that pop out. On the plus side the chainfists should be able to tear it open.

On the other hand I wouldn't take it either. Reason? Land Raiders are transports and they need to deliver terminators, no assault ramps and minimal troop capacity means it fails doubly at this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 4 av14 vehicles at 2250 seems a bit... off.

I would however consider trying it out, if for no other reason than to use the thunderfire as its the only way I know of that can by used with the da dex.

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:i've fought against this beast before.... but my two vindicators and devistator squad with lascannons saw it's death by turn 4. so in my opinion not that powerful

You are playing Space Marines. It's more balanced against armies like Space Marines or Imperial Guard (who have ready access to Str 9 and 10 weapons) than it is against armies that rely on Str 8 melta or lance weapons.

What do I think of it?

Visually: It's a bucket of suck - EVEN uglier than the showerguppy (storm raven hah! It doesn't strike fear into anyone. What does it do? Kill them through severe dehydration? After they've p*ssed themselves laughing to death?) skimmer the BA are getting.
It's a brutal, lumpen and unlovely chunk of armour unworthy of the name 'tank'.
I also note that they released this AFTER they released the one army that focuses on *lance weapons. A big one finger salute back atcha.

It's called an Achilles yet has no glaring weakness (R 10 would be appropriate). What are we supposed to do, wait for FW to miscast up a "Paris" class Tank destroyer?

AlexHolker wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:i've fought against this beast before.... but my two vindicators and devistator squad with lascannons saw it's death by turn 4. so in my opinion not that powerful

You are playing Space Marines. It's more balanced against armies like Space Marines or Imperial Guard (who have ready access to Str 9 and 10 weapons) than it is against armies that rely on Str 8 melta or lance weapons.

true, however my nids did alright, managed to wreak it and seize the objective it was on... go go carnifex backed by hive tyrant and mass swarm of gaunts

I guess I would fight it. I'd probably lose and not like it too much, but nothing wrong with the odd challenge now and then. I kind of like the model as well.

chromedog wrote:It's called an Achilles yet has no glaring weakness

Heh. Never thought of that.

Maybe on a 6 you always score a Penetrating hit, even with S8 weapons.

How is not wanting to play against something that you know is unbalanced a worse attitude than someone trying to be smugly superior by saying 'you suck because you don't want things to be hard, waaah waaah'?

IMO it's damage output for it's cost is pretty low, it'd just be PITA to kill. I don't think it's broken.

Loaded down with unnecessary rules, and possibly not that fun to play against regularly though, possibly (though anything that takes a lot to kill like Seer Circuses aren't that fun to play against regularly so I'm still pretty ambivalent).

A pain to kill, but doesnt kill an awful lot while not dying

I'd have no problem playing against it. Complaining about it isnt stepping up and doing your level best to down it, or still defeat the army. Imbalanced games can be some ofthe most fun you can have.

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:i've fought against this beast before.... but my two vindicators and devistator squad with lascannons saw it's death by turn 4. so in my opinion not that powerful

So in your opinion...

three heavy support slots shooting at one for four turns = fair?

Enough with the mocking people. You can play your side of the coin with out being D-bags.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

SumYungGui wrote:Big boy pants? Afraid of losing? Seriously? What crappy arguments.

We're not 'arguing' with you. We're 'mocking' you.

"Oh the noes! It's the cheesx0r! I refuse to play it."

So hilarious...

Ah, HBMC, always good for some one liners!

Guys, laugh about it. Seriously. People are getting mad about a toy.

Flacons were just as hard to kill in 4th ed, and we fought 3 of them as the tournament standard list. Some people cried cheese, one guy even made a literal cheese falcon (which was awesome!) but instead of throwing tantrums about how stupidly hard to kill they were, we broke down the math and determined the most efficient way of dealing with the Super Falcons of annoyingness for each army and we found ways to win. Same for Nidzilla, which was the other "unbeatbale" 4th ed army with "cheesey" units. We at Dakka figured out how to beat them when everyone else said it wasn't possible. That felt good! Better than crying about something being unfair and refusing to play. It was an enjoyable challenge to find a way to outplay the "super, cheesey, beardy, WAACY, no-fun army" of the day, just as it will be here.

If you don't try, then shame on you. At least give it a go instead of tucking tail and quitting before the game's begun. Where's your sense of pride? I bet all of you gents here are smart enough to come up with a way to at least contain this one model and find a way to have a good game of it if you believe you can. Just stun the dumb thing and that 300 point sick will fire one gun a turn, big deal. Kill the rest of the army and you'll be good to go. You don;t always have to destroy a tank to take it out of play. Just like Monoliths, or BT Raiders with Blessed Hulls against my Eldar, you can work around them. I have never lost to Crons and I think I have blown up a total of 2 Liths, ever. And this includes 4th ed when Crons were actually very powerful. Use some ingenuity to work around the problem. Quitting is a 100% guarantee to not beat it.

So anyway, sorry for rustling feathers, some of you seem to be taking the teasing personally, which you shouldn't. This is just the internet after all and most of us don't and will never know each other personally. So who cares what's said here! Take the useful information and junk the rest. (The useful information here being: don't quit before the battle's fought!)

Reecius wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

SumYungGui wrote:Big boy pants? Afraid of losing? Seriously? What crappy arguments.

We're not 'arguing' with you. We're 'mocking' you.

"Oh the noes! It's the cheesx0r! I refuse to play it."

So hilarious...

Ah, HBMC, always good for some one liners!

Guys, laugh about it. Seriously. People are getting mad about a toy.

Flacons were just as hard to kill in 4th ed, and we fought 3 of them as the tournament standard list. Some people cried cheese, one guy even made a literal cheese falcon (which was awesome!) but instead of throwing tantrums about how stupidly hard to kill they were, we broke down the math and determined the most efficient way of dealing with the Super Falcons of annoyingness for each army and we found ways to win. Same for Nidzilla, which was the other "unbeatbale" 4th ed army with "cheesey" units. We at Dakka figured out how to beat them when everyone else said it wasn't possible. That felt good! Better than crying about something being unfair and refusing to play. It was an enjoyable challenge to find a way to outplay the "super, cheesey, beardy, WAACY, no-fun army" of the day, just as it will be here.

If you don't try, then shame on you. At least give it a go instead of tucking tail and quitting before the game's begun. Where's your sense of pride? I bet all of you gents here are smart enough to come up with a way to at least contain this one model and find a way to have a good game of it if you believe you can. Just stun the dumb thing and that 300 point sick will fire one gun a turn, big deal. Kill the rest of the army and you'll be good to go. You don;t always have to destroy a tank to take it out of play. Just like Monoliths, or BT Raiders with Blessed Hulls against my Eldar, you can work around them. I have never lost to Crons and I think I have blown up a total of 2 Liths, ever. And this includes 4th ed when Crons were actually very powerful. Use some ingenuity to work around the problem. Quitting is a 100% guarantee to not beat it.

So anyway, sorry for rustling feathers, some of you seem to be taking the teasing personally, which you shouldn't. This is just the internet after all and most of us don't and will never know each other personally. So who cares what's said here! Take the useful information and junk the rest. (The useful information here being: don't quit before the battle's fought!)

Yet you are talking codex standard things which where not, in my opinion; as ridiculous as this.

This however is a FW model and I as an opponent has the right to refuse to play with it. If I am playing an apoc game then sure...but I am talking a standard LFGS walk-in. Unless otherwise communicated I am expecting to play things out of standard 40k codex's and not pick and choose out of FW books.

Your opinion would be incorrect in this case. A super falcon took over 100 BS4 las cannon shots to reliably destroy baring great luck (I think we determined it was like 144 or something, can't remember). This does not.

But yeah, you are free to do whatever you want. You can refuse to play someone unless you write their army list for them to make sure you face only units you want to face if that is your choice.

Of course a reasonable request to not play something because you think it is unfun or what have you is fine and most people would be OK with that. But the attitude that people are taking here is defeatist. Try to play against it a few times before passing judgment based only on a stat line. Don't just refuse to try it out.

Anyway, I have said enough on the topic, you guys can go about your business how you please.

When I get my Achilles, I will call it "The right of passage." Boys who play against it with courage shall become men! Hahaha, and yes folks, that is a joke!

pretty sure it was like 50points to give a landraider immunity to melta in some dex not so long ago when vehicles were not as good as they are now.

considering this is 50pts more for immunity to melta, -1 on damage tables, and immunity to lance. It is sorely undercosted.

I would play against it if it were 450pts.

Reecius wrote:
Flacons were just as hard to kill in 4th ed, and we fought 3 of them as the tournament standard list.

And very few people enjoyed playing against them, even Phil Kelly admitted that the synergistic combo between Holofields and SMF was a mistake. It didn't enhance the game, it just made it frustrating. There's a reason that army flew to the top in the last 18 months of 4E.

Some people cried cheese, one guy even made a literal cheese falcon (which was awesome!) but instead of throwing tantrums about how stupidly hard to kill they were, we broke down the math and determined the most efficient way of dealing with the Super Falcons of annoyingness for each army and we found ways to win.

The issue there was that to take them down you just brought more of the same stuff you already did, Las/plas, and tried to clear a space around the falcon to avoid the cargo as it came out.

It wasn't impossible to beat, but it was unreasonably difficult.

If you don't try, then shame on you. At least give it a go instead of tucking tail and quitting before the game's begun. Where's your sense of pride? I bet all of you gents here are smart enough to come up with a way to at least contain this one model and find a way to have a good game of it if you believe you can. Just stun the dumb thing and that 300 point sick will fire one gun a turn, big deal. Kill the rest of the army and you'll be good to go. You don;t always have to destroy a tank to take it out of play. Just like Monoliths, or BT Raiders with Blessed Hulls against my Eldar, you can work around them. I have never lost to Crons and I think I have blown up a total of 2 Liths, ever. And this includes 4th ed when Crons were actually very powerful. Use some ingenuity to work around the problem. Quitting is a 100% guarantee to not beat it.

Again, there's a world of difference between Necrons and their monoliths and this thing. You aren't going to have to deal with assault troops and half a dozen other armored units when dealing with a Monolith, and can abuse the Phase Out rule, while Blessed Hull only makes any sort of difference against Lance weapons and makes an LRC basically the same price as an Achilles.

Yes one can be creative and come up with ways to kill it or work around it. The problem is this will likely require tailoring an army and either allowing the thing to have its merry way with your army or concentrating obscene amounts of firepower against it.

Most players would not have an adequate chance of dealing with this thing using a normal pickup game list. And that's the issue. I'm normally all for FW stuff, hell, I've got over a hundred Forgeworld models myself and like most of the rules. But this particular unit, along with the Caestus, Deathwind and Lucius pods just aren't fun to play against or particularly well balanced.

The fact that its harder to kill than a Baneblade for most armies is honestly an issue, and why people have a problem with it.

Th3ee Legged Dog wrote:Yet you are talking codex standard things which where not, in my opinion; as ridiculous as this.

This however is a FW model and I as an opponent has the right to refuse to play with it. If I am playing an apoc game then sure...but I am talking a standard LFGS walk-in. Unless otherwise communicated I am expecting to play things out of standard 40k codex's and not pick and choose out of FW books.

Actually, as long as it it not a super heavy, and the book states it is part of a normal force organization chart, it's doesn't require opponents permission any more than any other codex entry.

-Loki- wrote:

Th3ee Legged Dog wrote:Yet you are talking codex standard things which where not, in my opinion; as ridiculous as this.

This however is a FW model and I as an opponent has the right to refuse to play with it. If I am playing an apoc game then sure...but I am talking a standard LFGS walk-in. Unless otherwise communicated I am expecting to play things out of standard 40k codex's and not pick and choose out of FW books.

Actually, as long as it it not a super heavy, and the book states it is part of a normal force organization chart, it's doesn't require opponents permission any more than any other codex entry.

"I choose not to play against you."

Arguing permission from either side is asinine. EVERY GAME requires opponents permission. You can choose not to play.

Regarding the actual model itself. I'd play against it. I'd treat it like a Falcon; Ignore it as much as possible. I feel it's far more appropriate for Apoc though. Perhaps I get one of the cheaper Baneblade variants as a heavy slot as well?

-Loki- wrote:

Th3ee Legged Dog wrote:Yet you are talking codex standard things which where not, in my opinion; as ridiculous as this.

This however is a FW model and I as an opponent has the right to refuse to play with it. If I am playing an apoc game then sure...but I am talking a standard LFGS walk-in. Unless otherwise communicated I am expecting to play things out of standard 40k codex's and not pick and choose out of FW books.

Actually, as long as it it not a super heavy, and the book states it is part of a normal force organization chart, it's doesn't require opponents permission any more than any other codex entry.

I am fairly certain that one of the early pages in every FW book states that FW rules are optional and requires opponents permission.

blaktoof wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Th3ee Legged Dog wrote:Yet you are talking codex standard things which where not, in my opinion; as ridiculous as this.

This however is a FW model and I as an opponent has the right to refuse to play with it. If I am playing an apoc game then sure...but I am talking a standard LFGS walk-in. Unless otherwise communicated I am expecting to play things out of standard 40k codex's and not pick and choose out of FW books.

Actually, as long as it it not a super heavy, and the book states it is part of a normal force organization chart, it's doesn't require opponents permission any more than any other codex entry.

I am fairly certain that one of the early pages in every FW book states that FW rules are optional and requires opponents permission.

They do not. They do have a section saying that you need other books to use what's in the IA book generally (I.E a rulebook), and that you should probably not try and bring a Reaver titan to a pickup game, but nothing saying one would need special permission for something that can be taken in a normal FoC.

Good Lord, we've found the blubberers. I bet you lot are the same guys who whined about BA deepstriking Land Raiders. What is so wrong with facing upto a challenge? H.B.M.C has got it dead on, nothing like being forced to earn that victory Or do you just want to face a hoard Eldar Guardian force with no heavy weapons. Oh dear, how hard it is to contain the mocking

Captain Jack wrote:Good Lord, we've found the blubberers. I bet you lot are the same guys who whined about BA deepstriking Land Raiders. What is so wrong with facing upto a challenge? H.B.M.C has got it dead on, nothing like being forced to earn that victory Or do you just want to face a hoard Eldar Guardian force with no heavy weapons. Oh dear, how hard it is to contain the mocking

There's a difference between a "challenge" and a crutch. The achilles is, for all practical purposes, a superheavy class vehicle. It has multiple powerful weapons, can target multiple units, can still fire while stunned, and is nigh impossible for many armies to overcome without tailoring. Would you feel just as enthused about an Eldar Scorpion or a Shadowsword in a normal game? If not, then why the support for the Achilles? Such superheavies are probably easier for most people to deal with than an Achilles, which is the problem.