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Kroothawk wrote:He is the Ed Wood of BL authors, good-awful, no clue but going on writing anyway.
He is famous for having no idea about the 40k background and not being ashamed of it.

Somehow he could convince the editors to let him write Eldar novels while utterly hating Eldar. Famous incidents:
Kids bringing down a Falcon with stones.
Eldar Guardians trying to block Warp Spiders ... and succeeding.
Harlequins ending in "piles of mutilated bodies" (quote!) in no time .... several times.
Death Jesters running into close combat.
A female injured Farseer is tortured over 180 pages, until she is finally allowed to die.
Almost all Eldar (including Eldrad and the leader of the Ulthwé council) and Dark Eldar are Slaanesh worshippers according to him, allowing him to write disgusting stuff like fat drooling child molesting Farseers.

Other fractions:
Necrons and Tyranids bray all the time etc.

I think you get the idea. For the sake of your mental sanity, never read anything by Goto, esp. when you like Eldar.

Slaanesh worshiping Eldar seems like a serious problem...

His depiction of, well, everything is pretty counter-mythologic. And the dialogue is just... bad. Unspeakably so. Too bad, cause there are some spiffy anecdotes about Gabriel Angelos' recruitment trials, and intriguing descriptions of some unique features of the Blood Ravens' Librarium. Also how they interact with certain organizations that don't get much attention, like Sisters Dialogus and the Ordo Psykana.

So he basically has no idea about the universe he is writing in (and putting money in his pocket)? Dear me, i would have thought that most people that write Tie-in fiction are pretty big fans, obviously not.
Fat child molesting Farseers seems like an interesting proposition. Which book are they in? I may have to buy it......

Eldar Prophecy is something of an oddity. All the other novels he wrote he slips in winks and nods to the Eldar being soooo great and whatnot, then he finally gets his chance at the big novel and well.. I am glad we've got Gav working on a good trilogy right now.

The one thing that made me question him (aside from his Eldar fetish) was when the "squad of Terminators piled out of the Razorback". What. The. Feth.

BrookM wrote:Eldar Prophecy is something of an oddity. All the other novels he wrote he slips in winks and nods to the Eldar being soooo great and whatnot, then he finally gets his chance at the big novel and well.. I am glad we've got Gav working on a good trilogy right now.

The one thing that made me question him (aside from his Eldar fetish) was when the "squad of Terminators piled out of the Razorback". What. The. Feth.

What about when the Termies got killed by a barbed strangler because they couldn't rip the stands off, and then the captain had a conveniently (after-thought) CYCLONE MISSILE LAUNCHER on his back.

sergeant, not captain

Whoops.

Perkustin wrote:There are many Memes on Dakka but a common micro trend is the bashing of a certain C.S. Goto, curious as to who or what this mysterious creature was i goolged him and found him to be the author of various Black Library books. I don't really read 40k fiction, aside from the excellent stuff in dakka fiction, so i cannot really be bothered reading one of his books, so tell me Mighty Community; Why is he so often Mocked? PS. i am not C.S. Goto or representing him in any capacity!

Because his books are horrible (and yes I have read every single warhammer and 40k book and find most of them enjoyable)....... you should read one and see for yourself.

I guess I disagree with some here. I think he *is* a bad writer. 40k history aside... he's just a poor writer. I've never ready anyone who used so many words and totally fail to communicate anything significant...

To be fair the Necromunda novel Salvation is excellent. Bits of it are almost Hitch-hikers Guide.

Salvation is okay, but the ending is rather..

I read eldar prophecy and really didn't like the writing style, but that link to the interview with Goto is pretty awesome.

The 40k universe, he knows almost nothing about it. And yet here he is....writing novels.....in the 40k universe. And getting paid.

sleazy wrote:To be fair the Necromunda novel Salvation is excellent. Bits of it are almost Hitch-hikers Guide.

OK..Ill say it...I hated the Guide. I couldnt even finish it.

Seems like this guys writing would end with the same result. Ive never read a 40k novel...but now if I do I know which writer to avoid.


Funny part is, I still have a copy of the Guide that belonged to a guy i knew in high school...17 years ago. He has a major Guide fan...even carried a towel and some other junk all the time. Guess he wasnt that big a fan if he forgot to ask for his book back. I would have given it back, but at the time I left the state we werent cool anymore, and really forgot that I had it.

If he was a really huge fan he might have deliberately let you keep it. That's a traditional thing to do with a book you really love- give copies away to people. He might have thought that if you thought you were borrowing it that you'd be more likely to read it (or read it sooner).

hes the kind of author that makes you wonder how he keep getting work. I know black library doesn't have the highest of standards, but c'mon.

I had completely forgotten about the braying Tyranids and Necrons.

One of these days, I'll get his books. They sound awesome.

Well, if you want a good book about Warhammer 40k, Ciaphas Cain is the best.

For those that know, no explanation is necessary.
For those that do not know, no explanation is possible (because that means dredging up memories best left buried).

chromedog wrote:For those that know, no explanation is necessary.
For those that do not know, no explanation is possible (because that means dredging up memories best left buried).

And given the low expectations of the field he's competing in, that's truly frightening!

Perkustin wrote:There are many Memes on Dakka but a common micro trend is the bashing of a certain C.S. Goto, curious as to who or what this mysterious creature was i goolged him and found him to be the author of various Black Library books. I don't really read 40k fiction, aside from the excellent stuff in dakka fiction, so i cannot really be bothered reading one of his books, so tell me Mighty Community; Why is he so often Mocked? PS. i am not C.S. Goto or representing him in any capacity!

All there really is to say is to try to read one of his books and then ask yourself these questions again. And to ""Not be bothered" to read a book?

I'm not going to add anything other then...

Vindicar.

The Dawn of War books were just... meh.

I really don't pay any attention to anything he writes after that.

He's not a writer that I would recommend.

Some believe that BL books are canon, there's an awful lot of innocent minds out there, thirsting for 'knowledge'.

Rick Preistly: At the end, he gave me a choice - between a life of comfort... or more torture. All I had to do was to say that... I would allow Razorback surfing Termies.
GW HR: You didn't say it?
Rick Priestly: No. No... But I was going to. I would have told him anything... anything at all. But more than that - I believed that Terminators could back flip.

Mr. Burning wrote:Some believe that BL books are canon, there's an awful lot of innocent minds out there, thirsting for 'knowledge'.

Rick Preistly: At the end, he gave me a choice - between a life of comfort... or more torture. All I had to do was to say that... I would allow Razorback surfing Termies.
GW HR: You didn't say it?
Rick Priestly: No. No... But I was going to. I would have told him anything... anything at all. But more than that - I believed that Terminators could back flip.

Picard wrote:TERMINATORS DONT USE RAZORBACKS

It's a bunch of genre fiction by aspiring writers with a prebuilt background to work from instead of their own imagination. Wow, and the authors are lame??!!

I guess Abnett's crap is so much better with the whole "And then they turned the next corridor and blasted several more of the cultists before they turned left and followed that corridor" style of narrative (because at least it was a bolt weapon instead of a multilaser - or was it spelled MultiLazor?). You wan't good writing, I suggest stuff that isn't just based on a precreated background intended to sell plastic toys to kids and grown-up-kid gamer geeks.

As far as I can tell he is no worse or better a writer than any of them. Take it for what it is, just a fun silly story. I like Eldar and I thought 'prophecy' was a good waste of an afternoon to read. The end. Props to the guy for at least getting the chance to make a living spouting goofy schlock for such an exquisitely well-read and litereeratied market of readers.

Guitardian wrote:It's a bunch of genre fiction by aspiring writers with a prebuilt background to work from instead of their own imagination. Wow, and the authors are lame??!!

I guess Abnett's crap is so much better with the whole "And then they turned the next corridor and blasted several more of the cultists before they turned left and followed that corridor" style of narrative (because at least it was a bolt weapon instead of a multilaser - or was it spelled MultiLazor?). You wan't good writing, I suggest stuff that isn't just based on a precreated background intended to sell plastic toys to kids and grown-up-kid gamer geeks.

As far as I can tell he is no worse or better a writer than any of them. Take it for what it is, just a fun silly story. I like Eldar and I thought 'prophecy' was a good waste of an afternoon to read. The end. Props to the guy for at least getting the chance to make a living spouting goofy schlock for such an exquisitely well-read and litereeratied market of readers.

...i think your missing the point a bit.

If your complaining about the general writing style fine but so what if the book is based in the 40k universe? there are still good and bad books, its just the general opinion is that Goto books are not only horrible they dont even follow the background the book is based in.

Guitardian wrote:It's a bunch of genre fiction by aspiring writers with a prebuilt background to work from instead of their own imagination. Wow, and the authors are lame??!!

You do realize that Dan Abnett was an established writer prior to doing his Gaunt's Ghosts, etc yeah? He used to write for Marvel Comics.

And it's also worth noting that quite a few of those "aspiring writers" manage to not write absolutely purile crap that makes the kind of fanfiction/yaoi/whatever crap you'll find on the Internet look like Shakespearean literature.
It's also worth noting that Aaron Dembski-Bowden, on his first outing in a book about Imperial Guard fighting freaking zombies managed to make a book that did absurdly well.

I guess Abnett's crap is so much better with the whole "And then they turned the next corridor and blasted several more of the cultists before they turned left and followed that corridor" style of narrative (because at least it was a bolt weapon instead of a multilaser - or was it spelled MultiLazor?). You want good writing, I suggest stuff that isn't just based on a precreated background intended to sell plastic toys to kids and grown-up-kid gamer geeks.

It's not the fact that it's "multilasers!11!!" that's the issue.

It's the fact that, even with a prebuilt background to work from Goto couldn't manage to get anything right. Space Marines using multilasers in lieu of boltguns, Terminators riding in Razorbacks, Eldar as pedophilic Slaanesh worshipers being the most easily recognizable affronts to the background.

As far as I can tell he is no worse or better a writer than any of them. Take it for what it is, just a fun silly story. I like Eldar and I thought 'prophecy' was a good waste of an afternoon to read. The end. Props to the guy for at least getting the chance to make a living spouting goofy schlock for such an exquisitely well-read and litereeratied market of readers.

I don't read Black Library books for "fun and silly stories". I have Shel Silverstein, Jon Stewart, or any other number of authors out there who write comedic literature.

I read Black Library for the background material relating to the games I play. Not to read the fanwank writings of some jackass who can't even manage to nail down the basic tenants of the background he's being paid to write about.

Just a note to star wars fans too, Darth Vader did not build C3P0. It upsets the fans.

Look I'm just saying, its just fiction. Attention harry potter people, broomsticks do not fly. Y'know?

Abnett wrote for Marvel Comics huh? Was that the Marvel comics that produced the incredible xmen, the uncanny xmen, x factor, x actly, x calibur, classic x men, the remarkable x men, or weapon x era x men? or just plain ol' x? all obviously not pre-written genre type stuff too, the only similarities are claws and rapid regeneration? Nah. Couldn't be. Note to christopher tolkein: your father's books are upsetting our fans. It's spelled with a K not a C, and they are green.

He still writes for Marvel, a lot. He writes most of the 'Cosmic' Marvel stuff.

Building C3P0 was an unnecessary but ultimately irrelavant fun fact. Pointless to mention plot-wise, but otherwise who cares.

What does upset the fans is Jar-Jar. Meesa wanted to drive out to Cali and give Lucas a hurricane kick to the coin-purse for that one lol.

Thanks for getting my sarcasm. Occasionally it gets lost in internet translation. Jar Jar would have been cooler if he had multilazor though.

Guitardian wrote:
I guess Abnett's crap is so much better with the whole "And then they turned the next corridor and blasted several more of the cultists before they turned left and followed that corridor" style of narrative (because at least it was a bolt weapon instead of a multilaser - or was it spelled MultiLazor?).

I'd think this has a lot to do with was is acceptable according to established canon.

In the Ultramarines' Movie, for instance,

Dan Abnett also takes his liberties with the "fluff" or "common sense" of the Universe he's in. His Tanith troops survive longer than Space Marines, pull stuff that would've made a battalion of imperial assassins ashamed of themselves, their Commissar is nice, has a fellow Commissar that's a cool albeit drunk guy, and in Eisenhorn, the main character has a light saber, amongst other things.

But some of these details tend to be ignored in favour of the general book, and I admit I enjoyed some plot twists in Gaunt's Ghosts but other stuff from his (the Horus Heresy books describing Marines with horse-faces, because of hormonal problems) I just skip. I found most BL books so far rather bland, the only written one so far I was enjoying was Ciaphas Cain - because it doesn't take itself so seriously, probably. Or it could be his writing style, I'm not sure.

Goto did even less and didn't even bother to check his facts. I applaud him for his sense of humour, but any writer taking such an inconsiderate approach of a well-known and liked universe is bound to raise some eyebrows.

I hear you on all points destrado, except, the crozius bit. There is an old painting used for some ancient game art which has a crozius with a crackling looking field of lightning-like stuff around it. I'm pretty sure they aren't just big eagle-shaped clubs, so that's a pretty easy stretch to make. Some authors have space marines with power fists physically scrunching skulls, others have them rendering people's bodies to mush with the "power field" in the glove(whatever the heck a "power field" is)