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And yet, if I'm at a concert, I have to listen to everything else along with the band.

I just want to listen to the goddamned music, not the cheering, not the cracking of heads against cement, not some douchey little couple's sloppy makeouts five feet from me. Just... the music.

Concerts suck. I'll just buy the CD or buy and download the music instead...

" Feel Like We Do " by Peter Frampton ....waaaay better than the regular album version, also epically long, clocking in at 15mins!

Melissia wrote:And yet, if I'm at a concert, I have to listen to everything else along with the band.

I just want to listen to the goddamned music, not the cheering, not the cracking of heads against cement, not some douchey little couple's sloppy makeouts five feet from me. Just... the music.

Concerts suck. I'll just buy the CD or buy and download the music instead...

Perhaps that would be for the best.

I've met people who don't care for live performances. A buddy of mine is a big Yes fan and he prefers the technical precision more-often seen in a studio performance.

Live music is different, and demands different things from the performers. A weak/unskilled singer/musician can take multiple attempts at it in a studio, and in some case you'll notice that a new band is terrible live. OTOH some bands/singers have good charisma in front of an audience, and can make a live performance more satisfying than their studio efforts because they don't know how to really display their abilities away from a crowd.

Melissia wrote:Why the feth can't people enjoy music without thinking of the social culture around that music's genre anymore?

*deep breath*

Because that's been the case with every genre of music since the early years of popular music? And what you're saying is nonsense that you've dreamed up because you don't like live concerts? If anything, the social culture surrounding genres in popular music has become less cohesive as participants in said culture have become more distributed due to the internet. A 'scene' isn't the same as it used to be. That's evident in the relative dearth of youth trend movements in the past few decades, compared with say, the '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s.

But it's no big deal. Just remember to know what you're talking about before you talk about it.

Albatross wrote:

Melissia wrote:Why the feth can't people enjoy music without thinking of the social culture around that music's genre anymore?

*deep breath*

Because that's been the case with every genre of music since the early years of popular music? And what you're saying is nonsense that you've dreamed up because you don't like live concerts? If anything, the social culture surrounding genres in popular music has become less cohesive as participants in said culture have become more distributed due to the internet. A 'scene' isn't the same as it used to be. That's evident in the relative dearth of youth trend movements in the past few decades, compared with say, the '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s.

But it's no big deal. Just remember to know what you're talking about before you talk about it.

Aaaand you have no damn clue what YOU are talking about, IE, my opinions and beliefs.

I have never given a damn about the "scene" of music. It isn't because I don't like concerts. The concerts are part of the scene, but despite your wrongful assumptions I never claimed they were all of it. I like music. That does not mean that I have to like the music scene, and anyone who claims such is deluding themselves. I want to listen to beautiful sounds and powerful singing. I want to listen to great guitars and awesome brass. I want to listen to a complex composition, or a simple, emotional piece. I just want to listen to music.

The reason I posted that bit up there was that it was more of a rhetorical question. IE, I don't believe that at one point people listened to music without paying attention to the scene, rather, I just don't do it myself and never have.

I reckon a live gig is an experience so different from listening to music in my sitting room or on my headphones that it's difficult to compare them.
When I listen to music at home, it's to chill out and provide background to what I'm doing (frequently while cleaning, actually).
When I go to a gig, it's a social event- I chat to other gig attendees, enjoy seeing the creators in the flesh, hearing what they say and how they say it, and have a few beers and a bit of a dance with my mates. I even listen to different types of music at gigs. I love metal gigs, but never listen to it at home, I really enjoy the Frames at home but wouldn't go to a gig by them.

Skunk Anasie.

A band so tight, a singer so talented, you cannot tell the difference between live and recorded, until they go off on one on-stage.

Toy Dolls - Always betterer live!

Anything by Iron Maiden is awesome live, especially 'fear of the dark' or 'number of the beast'

Though I should note that I have no issues with live versions themselves. I just don't like all the crap that interferes with me enjoying live versions (the noise of the crowd mostly). A live version without the background bullgak is perfectly fine. But I don't want to hear the roar of the crowd, I want to hear the damn music.

Melissia wrote:Though I should note that I have no issues with live versions themselves. I just don't like all the crap that interferes with me enjoying live versions (the noise of the crowd mostly). A live version without the background bullgak is perfectly fine. But I don't want to hear the roar of the crowd, I want to hear the damn music.

That is actually one of the things I like about 'Live at the Roxy'. You can hear the crowd between songs, especially when Mike Ness interacts with them, but the production brings the instruments and vocals well forward as the band plays so that you really don't notice the crowd during the songs. It is so well produced you can easily pick out each instrument and Ness' vocals are crystal clear, which honestly amazes me.

Again, GREAT live album.

Another that is decent is the live portions on the Rollins Band disc 'Life Time'.

Melissia wrote:Though I should note that I have no issues with live versions themselves. I just don't like all the crap that interferes with me enjoying live versions (the noise of the crowd mostly). A live version without the background bullgak is perfectly fine. But I don't want to hear the roar of the crowd, I want to hear the damn music.

I can totally understand where Melissia is coming from. i absolutely used to hate live music, especially recorded. then one day one time in the 80's, i stumbled accross Journey "Captured" and Rush's "Exit...stage Left" and totally changed. that's just me though.

Melissia wrote:

Albatross wrote:

Melissia wrote:Why the feth can't people enjoy music without thinking of the social culture around that music's genre anymore?

*deep breath*

Because that's been the case with every genre of music since the early years of popular music? And what you're saying is nonsense that you've dreamed up because you don't like live concerts? If anything, the social culture surrounding genres in popular music has become less cohesive as participants in said culture have become more distributed due to the internet. A 'scene' isn't the same as it used to be. That's evident in the relative dearth of youth trend movements in the past few decades, compared with say, the '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s.

But it's no big deal. Just remember to know what you're talking about before you talk about it.

Aaaand you have no damn clue what YOU are talking about, IE, my opinions and beliefs.

I have never given a damn about the "scene" of music. It isn't because I don't like concerts. The concerts are part of the scene, but despite your wrongful assumptions I never claimed they were all of it. I like music. That does not mean that I have to like the music scene, and anyone who claims such is deluding themselves. I want to listen to beautiful sounds and powerful singing. I want to listen to great guitars and awesome brass. I want to listen to a complex composition, or a simple, emotional piece. I just want to listen to music.

The reason I posted that bit up there was that it was more of a rhetorical question. IE, I don't believe that at one point people listened to music without paying attention to the scene, rather, I just don't do it myself and never have.

I'm not talking about 'scenes' specifically, more about the social aspect of music. It's ALWAYS been there. It's only a relatively recent (i.e the last 100 years) development that people listen to music alone. Music is an important part of the socio-cultural fabric of our society, and as such has primarily been a communal form of art/entertainment.

It's like you're getting mad at people for doing something humanity has pretty much always done, and can't understand why they can't be more like you, when in fact it's you who is the anomaly.

And how can you not like live music?! Seriously? You mentioned liking brass - have you ever seen a brass ensemble live? It's truly awesome. Recorded versions can't compare, as far as I'm concerned.

Melissia wrote:And yet, if I'm at a concert, I have to listen to everything else along with the band.

I just want to listen to the goddamned music, not the cheering, not the cracking of heads against cement, not some douchey little couple's sloppy makeouts five feet from me. Just... the music.

Concerts suck. I'll just buy the CD or buy and download the music instead...

What kind of strange concerts are you going to?!

The concert atmosphere here in the UK is completely different, in my experience.

gregor_xenos wrote:Metallica's version of "Whiskey in the Jar"-o
is much better than Thin Lizzys

*Murderizes*
Now we've cured that blasphemous remark...

I find a lot of Maiden's stuff is better when it's live. The Final Frontier doesn't seem nearly as good on the Disc as it did when they played at Sonisphere.

Change your Mind - Neil Young. Unreal live.

Metallicas version of Whiskey better then TLs? Eeeeeek!

Stay, live at nassau is much better than the recorded version. As is every other song on that live album.

(I'm talking about David Bowie, his song "stay", and the recently re-released album "station to station" )

Oshunai wrote:What kind of strange concerts are you going to?!

The concert atmosphere here in the UK is completely different, in my experience.

Heavy metal concerts.

Remember, the U.S. metal "scene" has far more influence from "grunge" music than the UK does. Mosh pits in metal concerts are impromptu places where people get excited by the music and go beat the living hell out of eachother. Similarly, many people go on dates to concerts if they have siimilar music tastes, or if the dude is willing to put up with her music tastes (or her with his) to go to said concert. Sloppy makeout sessions ensue. And cheer of the crowd? Well, that's to be expected when you have a few hundred or even thousands of teenagers/young adults gathered in one spot to watch a performance.


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Albatross wrote:And how can you not like live music?! Seriously? You mentioned liking brass - have you ever seen a brass ensemble live? It's truly awesome. Recorded versions can't compare, as far as I'm concerned.

Your other eye-rolling comments aside (did you seriously not read what I just said?)... yes, I have. From the perspective of one of the trumpet players inside the ensemble itself.

Glenn Gould didn't think much of Live performance being better than mechanical reproduction.

Melissia wrote:

Oshunai wrote:What kind of strange concerts are you going to?!

The concert atmosphere here in the UK is completely different, in my experience.

Heavy metal concerts.

Remember, the U.S. metal "scene" has far more influence from "grunge" music than the UK does. Mosh pits in metal concerts are impromptu places where people get excited by the music and go beat the living hell out of eachother. Similarly, many people go on dates to concerts if they have siimilar music tastes, or if the dude is willing to put up with her music tastes (or her with his) to go to said concert. Sloppy makeout sessions ensue. And cheer of the crowd? Well, that's to be expected when you have a few hundred or even thousands of teenagers/young adults gathered in one spot to watch a performance.

Ah. I go to metal 'gigs' on a regular basis (at least once a week). Based upon what you've just said though it sounds that the American concert-going culture is a fair bit different to my experience of music culture here. This said, I have had 'mosh-pit' experiences to the degree you describe, though primarily in the death/black/core metal influenced areas of the genre. Additionally there are a huge number of irritating people at concerts. But my love of the music, and the band transcends any stupid people and I would readily endure every jumping, mosh-pitting swine for another chance to hear the blissful peal of an electric guitar or a few chosen songs of my favourite bands. My more typical experience, of power metal (read- Nightwish, Blind Guardian, Hammerfall, Sabaton etc) is everyone actually listening to the music and having an amazing evening, rather than trying to beat each other up.

In regards to the crowd cheering. Are you referring to the cheering just all the time being the irritating factor that puts you off live music, or at the ends of songs?

Also, you seem to the allude to the idea that the quality of live music being worse than the studio version also puts you off live music? Or am I way off the point here?

On topic of the thread. Sonata Arctica's 'Fullmoon' sounds far far better live than it does on CD, simply because the tempo of it live is much faster. I'd say the same of Helloween's 'I Want Out', or Hammerfall's 'Heeding the Call' for that matter...

It's the crowd in general. I dislike the noise of a hundred screaming people. It irritates me and makes me want to set them on fire.

I fully admit to being severely misanthropic.

As for the music, no, I don't say the quality is lower. Just that I don't like all of the stupid crap that comes with it. I just want to listen to music, not all the associated bullgak.

If you are talking about listening to the music live, then yes of I think it's better. And by that I include electronic music in a club etc. But recorded live versions of music? Aren't they just there to fill up space on uncomplete albums? I guess if it's the only way to hear an unreleased record, but otherwise meh.

Landslide by Fleetwood Mac, you could cut the atmosphere on stage with a knife when they sing that song.

That song just seems to represent the old wounds Buckingham and Stevie Nicks share, and theres no doubt in my mind that she sings it better now than she did as a younger woman.

I have to agree on some level with Melissa about not being all that kneen on hanging in with a crowd for an hour or two or whatever; people are a pain in the ass, and sometimes you're stuck behind a whole big bunch and you can't hear a thing with all of their hooting and hollaring. It ain't fun.

But going to a concert isn't all about listening to the music (unless you listen to live jazz, I suppose) as it is being in that one weird atmosphere with all of those other smelly, obnoxious people. Back at PAX (I think?), JoCo was up and playing his stuff, and Felicia Day came along and started 'Still Alive'. And every single person sung along, no matter how far off-key they were. It was great. When the Red Hot Chilli Peppers were promoting Stadium Arcadium, I went to see them. Someone got the wave started, and it carried along through the whole stadium. There really isn't anything else like it in the whole world.

Or something.

I should get back to Computer Graphics classwork.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Landslide by Fleetwood Mac, you could cut the atmosphere on stage with a knife when they sing that song.

That song just seems to represent the old wounds Buckingham and Stevie Nicks share, and theres no doubt in my mind that she sings it better now than she did as a younger woman.

Always thought this was more the "Definitive Buckinham/Nicks,Love/Hate" song.




....Throughout this performance,you can see that Nicks is "directing "the song towards Buckingham.

Melissia wrote:

Albatross wrote:And how can you not like live music?! Seriously? You mentioned liking brass - have you ever seen a brass ensemble live? It's truly awesome. Recorded versions can't compare, as far as I'm concerned.

Your other eye-rolling comments aside (did you seriously not read what I just said?)

If you had any come-back you would have typed it out. But you didn't, so now you're just deflecting.

It's ok to just admit that what you said was stupid, you know. No-one's going to laugh at you. I mean, if you don't like live music, that's fine (although it is weird, especially since you purport to be a musician...) - what the feth do I care?

...but making factually incorrect statements will lead to being called on them.

Sorry that was what I was eluding too FITZZ, that song represents everything they've been through. The love, to hate, and bitterness that blighted them for so long.

My fave vid on youtube for them is (I think London 2009) where Lindsey actually squeezes her shoulder near the end of the song.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Sorry that was what I was eluding too FITZZ, that song represents everything they've been through. The love, to hate, and bitterness that blighted them for so long.

My fave vid on youtube for them is (I think London 2009) where Lindsey actually squeezes her shoulder near the end of the song.

Clearly time has healed some of the wounds between the two.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:It's the crowd in general. I dislike the noise of a hundred screaming people. It irritates me and makes me want to set them on fire.

I fully admit to being severely misanthropic.
.

I believe this basically sums up Melissa's position on "Live music performances",which Is why I said in a previous post that it was probably for the best that she enjoy her musical experiences by staying home and listening to recordings/downloads.
Probably work out better for the concert goers as well.

FITZZ wrote: I know a lot of people like to knock KIZZ,but let's be honest...they were one of the most influential bands in modern show business history.

Fixed that for you. I don't doubt that Kiss were influential, but they never influenced music, they influenced performers. What's more, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to hold them personally responsible for the proliferation of hair bands in the eighties, so not all influences are good. Without Kiss, there would be no Poison or Motley Crue, and the world would be a better place.

As for stuff better live than studio, I'd have to say that any competent band sounds better live than in the studio. There's just more energy and more ambiance. I've been to a lot of concerts, and the only ones that didn't sound better live were ones that I have little respect for (Black Crows, and Nirvana come to mind).

I think software like Mac's "garage band" (and similar things for the PC) show that just about anyone with a modicum of talent can sound good in a studio environment where they get to redo parts until they get them right, and can apply layers upon layers of effects to mask their deficiencies. That doesn't work live. Live performance should be the measure of any band.

Redbeard wrote:

FITZZ wrote: I know a lot of people like to knock KIZZ,but let's be honest...they were one of the most influential bands in modern show business history.

Fixed that for you. I don't doubt that Kiss were influential, but they never influenced music, they influenced performers. What's more, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to hold them personally responsible for the proliferation of hair bands in the eighties, so not all influences are good. Without Kiss, there would be no Poison or Motley Crue, and the world would be a better place.

While I readily agree that Kiss was a major influence concerning "stage performance" and can be held directly responsible for bands like Motley Crue and Wasp,I have to disagree that Kiss in no way influenced musical styles.
Their straight ahead style of playing was emulated time and again by many bands during the 80's and 90's.