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Disappointed not to see Dark Eldar in here.

Mech IG, Dark Eldar....and I think BA and Space Wolves are tied for a spot.

1. Space furries (Woot for an effective answer to everything)
2. Imperial Tanks (Oh, you blew up 2 of my tanks? Good thing I have 9 more. It's my turn to shoot now, Good game.)
3. I don't know. Blood Angels, I guess. Fast vehicles at a discount and abundant FNP is a pain.

Dashofpepper wrote:Disappointed not to see Dark Eldar in here.

Mech IG, Dark Eldar....and I think BA and Space Wolves are tied for a spot.

stompydakka wrote:best-SW
BA
IG
honourable mention-DE

I gave it honourable mention...

Top three?

Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar, and SW/BA.

Out of the four, you see DE do the worst because it is the only army out of the four listed that requires a player with decent skill to win. Not because DE are under balanced, but rather that the other 3 armies are baby-proof and any idiot with one arm can push to victory. This is why you see MORE of those armies win because MORE of those players would lose if they tried to win with Dark Eldar. Get me?

If you took an experienced player, and cloned him 4 times, I would bet easily that the winner would mostly be the Dark Eldar player, just for the fact that the Dark Eldar army is designed to beat those armies up there. The problem is, that you need a slightly different build to fight the IG than you do the training wheels for noobs SW/BA.

Of course this is just my opinion.

I think people are answering 'What three armies are easiest to win with whether you are a full grown adult or tiny baby' instead of the actual poll question.

BuFFo wrote:Top three?

Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar, and SW/BA.

Out of the four, you see DE do the worst because it is the only army out of the four listed that requires a player with decent skill to win. Not because DE are under balanced, but rather that the other 3 armies are baby-proof and any idiot with one arm can push to victory. This is why you see MORE of those armies win because MORE of those players would lose if they tried to win with Dark Eldar. Get me?

If you took an experienced player, and cloned him 4 times, I would bet easily that the winner would mostly be the Dark Eldar player, just for the fact that the Dark Eldar army is designed to beat those armies up there. The problem is, that you need a slightly different build to fight the IG than you do the training wheels for noobs SW/BA.

Of course this is just my opinion.

I think people are answering 'What three armies are easiest to win with whether you are a full grown adult or tiny baby' instead of the actual poll question.

QFT
I would like to start DE, and it looks like much more of a challenge than my orks (move forward, die, move forward, die, move forward, die, move forward, assault)
or my tau (stand, shoot, stand, shoot, stand, shoot, get charged and die)

Dashofpepper wrote:Disappointed not to see Dark Eldar in here.

I don't know. Sure they have some powerful tricks, but they're just incredibly fragile.

1. IG
2. BA
3. SW

3. CSM
2. Necron
1. Tau

DE are a great army, but the reason I wouldn't list them as top 3, and especially not the top, is not only the skill required to play them but their hideous vulnerability to mech IG armies (sure, lets trade lance and blaster fire with a greater number of multilasers, autocannons, grenade launchers and meltas)

I'd go with everyone else and say SW, IG and BA as top 3. I'd probably put DE as 4th for the reasons above. SW's are just given too many weapons, wargear and special rules for basically free just "because" (and have *TERRIBLE* fluff), and BA just have too many toys available to them (AV13 in 3 FoC slots, assault troops in discounted Fast transports, widely available FNP, Fast Skimmer assault ramp gunships, etc) also along with rather derpy new fluff, while IG just...TANKS.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Disappointed not to see Dark Eldar in here.

I don't know. Sure they have some powerful tricks, but they're just incredibly fragile.

That is exactly what was addressed by Buffo!
It is difficult to win with them, but if you are good they can be amazing.

my 10 cents worth

best 3

Gaurd
Wolves
Orks

Worst 3

well covered already, Daemonhunters (but not for long obv)
Tau
Necrons

Blood Angels, whilst having some disgusting units suffer from the fact that they are Marines, and most armies are - intenionally or not - tailored to fight marines. Wolves have the edge on them because lists like Razorwolves and missile long fangs as well as Rune priests with Jaws deal with loads of stuff that would be a big problem for other marine armies.
Orks are disgustingly tough! Many of the best tournament players i know win a lot of tournies with orks, and i have seen how horrible they can be
and there is not a chance Nids are anywhere near the worst, Trygons are the best monstrous creatures in the game in my opinion

Wow CSM has fallen to the bottom three? That makes me sad.

Noisy_Marine wrote:Wow CSM has fallen to the bottom three? That makes me sad.

I don't think they're bottom 3 material at all. However, there's literally ONE competitive build that allows very little variation (3x3 Oblits, Dual Lash) and is only really effective against MEQs. Mech IG stomps this build as it doesn't have the mobility to close distance.

I'll throw in for the worst

Top - Tau
meh - Daemon Hunters
more killy than previous two - Necrons

Tau being top because Daemonhunters and Necrons can still hose them

I'm actually going to have to go with the grain here and put tau and necron at the bottom and guard and BA near the top. I don't know what I'd count as third from best/worst.

What I find interesting is that BA and guard have long taken up top spots. No matter how old their codecies seem to get, they still stay pretty well on top, while some codecies, like tau and eldar, can get updated and still struggle.

Top Three Best Codices:

1. Space Wolves - Someone went a way overboard with this codex. Whatever your army can do, Space Wolves can do cheaper AND better AND with a cooler looking model AND with more idiotic fluff. The only thing that they don't dominate completely is deep striking and human-wave tactics (Thus resulting in two other armies making the list.)

2. Imperial Guard - The Imperial Guard is just awesome. Vendettas are a bit much, but I actually don't have any other examples of IG being overboard. They are just really, really good. I guess maybe that means that most of their units are overboard, but at least they don't draw as much ire as Space Wolves or Blood Angels. CREEEEEEEEEEEEEED! (I've always wanted to do that )

3. Blood Angels - They are just an example of too much. They get assault marines as troops, makes sense. Then those troops have a totally inexplicable +1 to reserve rolls and only scatter 1d6? Too much. This theme is repeated through the entire codex, where good ideas are just taken too far and result in cheese.

Bottom Three Worst Codices:

1. Necrons - The old codex pricing, phase-out rules, and major nerf to gauss weapons put Necrons at the absolute bottom of the 40k barrel. Don't worry Necron players; they'll be back.

2. Tau - The Tau are good at shooting. The main problems is that a lot of codices are now better than them at this, plus are better in CC. All of the other codices can out-assault the Tau, but recently most of them outshoot our pseudo-communist friends too. Here's hoping a new codex in the next year or two fixes the problems.

3. Dark Angels - Despite the new FAQ, the Dark Angels still aren't good. They are now passable, but still not good. Being not bad wouldn't be bad except that they are a marine codex, and whatever they do, one of the other marines does better. While Black Templars are in good shape now because of the FAQ, Dark Angels suffer from being practice for Codex: Space Marines. They don't have all the cool USRs that Black Templars have, but acted as proof to GW that they could implement changes like free grenades and combat squads without nerfing the whole codex to compensate. Our vehicles (except for land raiders) are overpriced, as are the bikes, assault marines, techmarines, Librarians (which are also Ld. 9), and non-typhoon speeders. The deathwing can be good, but the all-Terminator and Land Raider army doesn't play very well (especially in low-point games). Because of the FAQ, I'm also not expecting a new codex in the near future.

Alphapod, strong disagree on DA. You can smash upwards of 35 dudes with TDA + Th/SS combos, including cyclones in Assault Terminator squads, into an 1,850 list that is almost entirely fearless and scoring.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Alphapod, strong disagree on DA. You can smash upwards of 35 dudes with TDA + Th/SS combos, including cyclones in Assault Terminator squads, into an 1,850 list that is almost entirely fearless and scoring.

Everything DA can do Wolf Guard or White Claws do better.

I'm surprised at all the posters here naming Blood Angels in the the top three. I've never had a problem with the codex. I understand that this might be a single player making a mockery of a decent list, but I have versed two regulars at our FLGS and another in Brisbane. Fun games but I won all of them with IG, and I wouldn't say that my list is super competitive.

In my opinion Top 3 are:
-IG
-SW
-Orks (purely by way of Nob Bikers and... KFF)

Low 3:
-Deamonhunters
-DA (Deathwing can be rolled over by most other armies if they have 1850pts to play with)
-Necrons, though my experience with them is limited to a few matches with only a couple of players.

Anyone brave enough to make a top to buttom tiers list for all the armies? (i.e. top-tier, high-tier, mid-tier, low-tier)

1st-Wolves, They can handle anything, let it be mech or horde, this guys are strong. They eat nails and poop rainbows


2nd-guard, These guys are ridiculous with the amount of firepower and armor they can take on the board. Melta spam to the max.


3rd-orks, Well rounded army for all comers. Green tides can take a toll on people expecting to play a mech list. Strong cheap troop choice (ork boys). Tough army to beat.

mention- Blood angels, roided Marines that have blood anything and everything. But still Marines.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Alphapod, strong disagree on DA. You can smash upwards of 35 dudes with TDA + Th/SS combos, including cyclones in Assault Terminator squads, into an 1,850 list that is almost entirely fearless and scoring.

This was my original thought on them too. This build has a few serious issues though:
1. Armor Saves: This build is very reliant on armor saves. A few unlucky rolls and you're toast, and you don't have enough guys to wait for the luck to balance out. I guess the counter is that good rolls will keep them in the game awhile, but this lead to point 2.
2. Not Enough Dakka: Because you only have 35 guys, a Deathwing just doesn't have enough dakka to handle a lot of armies. While Cyclone Racks are admittedly good, storm bolters don't cut it because it cripples the unit in CC vs. Power Weapons and vs. AP 1-2. Deathwing loaded out for assault doesn't fare well either, because other armies either have larger deathstars (Space Marines) or better deathstars (Black Templars). Losing a few guys early makes the problem worse, while it remains an issue even if you get lucky and your terminators refuse to go down.
3. AV 14? : A deathwing army has serious issues popping AV 14 at a range. AV 13 isn't good news either, because there just aren't enough missile shots to deal with them AND suppress enemy infantry. We're back to deathwing just not having enough models. They CAN handle any armor at close range with Chainfists, but these aren't overly common in Assault Terminator squads because they lose out versus infantry. This would be an issue for the rest of the codex to deal with, but the rest of the codex ranges from mediocre to terrible.

In conclusion, Deathwing just doesn't have enough units to get the job done. While they act as good support troops or deathstars, terminators are too expensive to be the grunts in an army. The issue that Dark Angels have is that the rest of the codex isn't there to support the Deathwing, and so they ultimately fall short of competitive or even of good.

Edit: One additional issue that I can't believe I forgot to list:
4. Mobility: Deathwing in an all-terminator build is verry, vvveeeerrrrryyyyy slow. They are probably the least mobile army, and this costs them a lot of tactical flexibility. They can take land raiders to solve the problem, but that leaves you with even fewer models. Those land raiders will draw an insane amount of Anti-vehicle fire and fold early versus most armies, and especially against melta and lance. Now you have no mobility and fewer terminators. At least Land Raider Godhammers provide some long-range Anti-tank to help mitigate problem 3.

1: Necrons
2: Tyranids
3: Imperial Guard

3: Eldar
2: Tau
1: Space Wolves

Top 3 armies (taking into account my style of play) in no particular order...

Eldar
Dark Eldar
Blood Angels

Bottom 3 armies (taking into account my style of play) in no particular order...

GK
Necron
Nid

---

Although thats just for how i like to play... can you see the pattern?

Top 3 easily:
1. Space Wolves
2. Guard
3. Blood Angels

Bottom 3 (least to greatest)
1. Daemonhunters
2. Necrons
3. Tau

Amaya wrote:1 - Imperial Guard
2 - Blood Angels
3 - Space Puppiess

+1 to this list.
If it was only due to codex creep, then 'nids and DE would be in the top 3.

Bottom 3
- Necrons
- Tau
- Daemonhunters

I cry when I see tau in the bottom every time.

A "bubblewrap" tau is a royal royal pain to face. Charge piranhas t2 or 3, bubble layer #1 t3 or 4, Bubble wrap layer #2 t4 or 5, get fed sacrifices the rest of the game, all while a LOT of shots is put into you.

The problem is when guys outshoot you (which is sad really), both SW, DE and IG can outshoot tau in some variation, but that is not to say that they don't put up a fight.

I'd rate them higher than BT, DA and Orks.

Their problem is that that build, their best, is very...bland, and not very fun to play with on either side, and MOST other builds kinda suck.

To be fair, IG have always outshot the Tau in terms of raw firepower. Tau have just been better at placing that firepower and survivability. Tau shouldn't be outshooting IG, they need to have a rough firepower parity with IG, achieved by manueverability and survivability, but they do lack a lot of firepower now as is, along with survivability.

My thoughts after my post

IG - like I said, they are tops Id say. They are versatile and and just hammer the hell out of you with all those tanks. Personally, I only think a very few things are a bit WTF in their codex, but mostly I think its just a really good codex. So Id say they deserve beign so good

BA - They do have some problems IMO. Obviously they went over board on parts of this codex. But some of it isnt broken/are you serious?Over powered. Some of it is just stupid EX: Deep striking Land Raider. Why? Its a giant friggin tank, being shot/dumped out of a ship? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Ive read alot of Battle Reps and even though they are tough, I see people take them down alot. So they are up on the list, and only marginally dont deserve being up there. If they got rid of some the OTT things and balanced it a bit more Id probably like them, I mean I know Mephiston is suppose to be a bad ass and all, but honestly a few years ago, people would see those astats and say something like "Oh if you buff him a little bit, that would make a fine Emperor stat line

SW - Oh god. Ive never been a big fan of them, but Ive never hated them either. This codex OTOH draws the line a good 10 feet back the other way. Its so over powered. Some of it is well and truly broken. upto 4 HQ choices?! Why the feth do you need that? Id love to be able to take ghazzy, 2 BigMeks and a biker boss just cause. As well as some abilities that just, make things go away. Oh look, I rolled better then you(or what ever you have to do for them) and poof, take that unit away. This one IMO doesnt deserve the rank it has, only because its obviously WAY over the top. Some of these ideas should have been trashed

liam0404 wrote:Nids are actually my "Bogeyman" army. I seem to struggle against them more than other armies.

I get that against Eldar. Been playing twenty years and have never ever beaten an Eldar army.

1. Orks on foot.
2. Orks in Trukks.
3. Orks in Stompas.