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druids, spell singers- they is all the same to me, peeps who cast spells

I think that there would be only minor differences in what the two represent gamewise and modelwise, though they would have to rewrite some fluff.

Adding Animals would be a better take on it from both fluff, game and modelling. I can hardly believe that there are only tree's elves, birds and horses in Athel Loren (oh and the occasional dragon and Unicorn if you are a conversionairrrrrr).

Beastmen and shapshifters would both be pretty kool...


Oh and a lord on a GIANT BEER!!!!



bear I mean

Giant BEAR
GW won't do anything like encourage ten year olds to drink alcohol

not for health or ethical reasons but if they spend their pennies on alcopops there will be less to spend on giant BEARS!

*removes la tete du cynique*

Just had a great idea for a new unit (getting inspiration from some coverted unit fillers I saw whilst browsing the net)

What does my fellow Asrai think of a Spite Swarm unit? would give us a cheap roadblock, a cheaper alternative to warmachine hunting then Glade Riders and should fit in the fluff quite nicely.

Personally I'd make glade guard 10pts, but instead play on the theme of them being the best shots in the old world by having a range of 'shooting upgrades' being purchaseable. E.g. you could buy 'killing blow' or 'rapid fire (reroll misses) or 'armour piercing' shots for X pts per model, limited to one upgrade per unit (no duplications).

Keep Dryads as they are, but make them a 5+ ward regardless. Give Wardancers 5+ ward too.

GG need some form of save, but not sure how to make it fluffy.

I'd definitely give access to beasts & life for Lvl 1-2s.

Think the GG armor save is fine the way it is as it fits them rather well, however I do like the idea of buying upgrades, however I think the rapid fire should come standard and then if they wanted to do a shot with "armor piercing" they would only shoot once. This would keep them at 12 points. Also give this same rule to the Glade Riders but then lower them to maybe 20 or 21 pts. This would make them that much better and actually worth their points.

gmaleron wrote:Think the GG armor save is fine the way it is as it fits them rather well, however I do like the idea of buying upgrades, however I think the rapid fire should come standard and then if they wanted to do a shot with "armor piercing" they would only shoot once. This would keep them at 12 points. Also give this same rule to the Glade Riders but then lower them to maybe 20 or 21 pts. This would make them that much better and actually worth their points.

I like this, almost like a SM boltgun, except they could still move and shoot, but the choice would be between two shots at certain distance, or one shot at a certain distance with negative modifier to armor saves, like they need to take that extra time to hit weak points in the armor or vital spots.

This would help when facing horde armies or elite ones, seeing as how we have very few core choices.





oh, and a lord on a giant bear... I just saw an old citadel wood elf bear go for 30$ on ebay...



Seeing as how I've never actually played 8th ed. yet, how did the WE shoot and flee tactic lose its luster? Is it easier to route them on a charge now?

All I want to see really, aside from the entire book being brought up to snuff...

Lords with certain Kindred upgrades make those kindreds count as Core.


I just want to be able to field an all Waywatcher/ambushing army. Is that too much to ask?

Kanluwen wrote:All I want to see really, aside from the entire book being brought up to snuff...

Lords with certain Kindred upgrades make those kindreds count as Core.


I just want to be able to field an all Waywatcher/ambushing army. Is that too much to ask?

I am sorry good sir but you'll have to take an SC to do that.
You'll see im right... eventually.

On the topic of Special Characters that is one thing they really need to change as well. The only ones we have plainly are not worth taking and has anyone else noticed where every book has like 5 or 6 we have 3? Why not a waywatcher special character that allows you to field Waywatchers as special choices or even a glade guard one that can chose to be mounted and become a glade rider and gives the squad he is with killing blow or something like that. Some more variety and better characters would be nice as well.

Another thing the WE's lack is an artillery piece. I know maybe it is not neccesarily fluffy but I think for the same amount of points or even boost them a little a treman could pick up and throw rocks like a stone thrower. Make them maybe 300pts. Even and then run them the way they are except they are able to throw rocks when not in combat. And i will say it again they need to fix our f*$&ing ward save to make it just a normal one.

And instead of a bear I vote for a guy on a Forest Wolf, If it looks good on Thunderwolf Cav it will look good for Wood Elves

My friend and I (he just listened to me say it) came up with a quick fix bandaid for the wood elves until the new book manages to come out. Since skirmishing is hard on units now, and wood elves are driven by it, here is a quick fix, plus the ward save issue

1) Wood Elf units are stubborn within 6" of a forest of any type
2) Ward save is 5+ all the time

These two fixes will make wood elves playable. Will they be great? No. But it'll fix two of the hardest hits in the book. Thinking about calling GW and asking what they think about just adding that to the FAQ...would take 5 minutes of somebody's time there

That woudl be sweet, if they valued our input on the issue. If they did, they would have released a new WE armybook with the new 8th edditon BRB becasue of the way the army not nerffed. Or they would have put WE before O&G.

The Druid idea was more of a shapeshifter. He would be nice. I would put it in units as a supprise since many armies have assassins now it will be our own little close combat trick to try to even things out. They should also give waywatcers Multiple Shotsx3 with no penalty for firing multiple shots.

UNREALPwnage wrote:
The Druid idea was more of a shapeshifter. He would be nice. I would put it in units as a supprise since many armies have assassins now it will be our own little close combat trick to try to even things out. They should also give waywatcers Multiple Shotsx3 with no penalty for firing multiple shots.

This is a keeper, I would like to have an "assassin role" in a WE army and it could fit the fluff!

What would you like to see in the new tree lore?

I would like a spell that turns other terrain pices to forest and a spell that acts as the moonstone. I would also like to see dryads summoned from forest in the same way zombies are summoned.

Cool thread,

I would like to see a unit for each kindred

Glade guard bows on all non-mounted elves

Stags and Unicorns with Fast Cavalry

Saeith (sp? the spear-staves) that act as spears and 2 hand weapons when on foot, available to all characters

Eternal warrior = fighting style that gives a 5+ parry save to any model with a saeith

Asrai mastery of the Bow: all wood elf characters that did not move can fire a # of arrows = their Attacks profile.

I know, I know, I am SO Dreaming . . .also instead of beer or wine I see Asrai more as apple brandy drinkers

The War-Eagles could use some kind of War-Dancer on them, so they hit harder.

All WE bows at S4.

A Druid Character would be cool.

Less expensive Waywatchers, with a rule to make them S5 bows when within half range or so. Or they could stay the same cost with the S5 boost.

Some kind of option for ranked Dryads, but not a replacement for skirmish Dryads.

No "wolf riders", but "hunting packs" of Fey Wolves accompanying 'Huntmaster of Orion' characters would be cool.

WombleJim wrote:Just had a great idea for a new unit (getting inspiration from some coverted unit fillers I saw whilst browsing the net)

What does my fellow Asrai think of a Spite Swarm unit? would give us a cheap roadblock, a cheaper alternative to warmachine hunting then Glade Riders and should fit in the fluff quite nicely.

Wow, I think this is a great idea! It'd be awesome if they could somehow take on the ability of a unit near to them, imitating them like the spites in the artwork seem to be imitating warriors, etc. But that is a fantastic unit idea, reminds me of whelps for trollbloods in warmachine/hordes.

I would like that
Going to scratch some "Hounds of Ariel" for want of a better name. Spites but bigger and meaner looking than the piddly fairy blobs from the Battalion.

(apologies to anyone who likes them, which is good- personal taste etc)

Count enemies fighting Forest Spirits (and maybe Wardancers too) as being in a normal forest.

RiTides wrote:

WombleJim wrote:Just had a great idea for a new unit (getting inspiration from some coverted unit fillers I saw whilst browsing the net)

What does my fellow Asrai think of a Spite Swarm unit? would give us a cheap roadblock, a cheaper alternative to warmachine hunting then Glade Riders and should fit in the fluff quite nicely.

Wow, I think this is a great idea! It'd be awesome if they could somehow take on the ability of a unit near to them, imitating them like the spites in the artwork seem to be imitating warriors, etc. But that is a fantastic unit idea, reminds me of whelps for trollbloods in warmachine/hordes.

I agree, this would be a cool new unit, with great converting options.
Still like the shape changing character too.

I was also thinking that just removing some of the restrictions from their special rules would go a long, long way.
Forrest spirit ward save good against magic too.
5+ AS for eternal guard = 5+ parry or ward save.
Lethal shot for waywatchers good for all ranges not just short.
Wardancers can choose a dance all the time and not just in combat. Maybe even add a couple of new dances like one to add d6" to their move, or the moonstone trick, or an additional -1 to hit from shooting.
spell singers can choose life or beasts
There are probably more, but I can't think of them at the moment.

I got to thinking a bit more about Wood Elves today and had an interesting little thought.

Rather than taking a normal 'Champion' in their units, why not give them the option to take a 'Foreststrider'--essentially, a Mage with no real abilities other than allowing them to hop from cover to cover?

im probebly going to get shot down here but... as an army wide rule

Bow Masters: Any wood elf model may fire shots equal to the number of basic attacks on there profile, this may not be conbined with arcane arrows or bows.

All wood Elf Bows are str4

Wood elf lords bow shots are Killing blow

Formosa wrote:im probebly going to get shot down here but... as an army wide rule

Bow Masters: Any wood elf model may fire shots equal to the number of basic attacks on there profile, this may not be conbined with arcane arrows or bows.

All wood Elf Bows are str4

Wood elf lords bow shots are Killing blow

IMHO bow masters is too strong and not going to affect many units. The only unit that has more than one attack and has a bow is the champion for the warhawk riders. Otherwise it will only affect characters and the bow of loren gives them that ability for 30 points more.

I don't mind the str4 bows, I would even settle for the str4 at short range like the glade guard long bows now.

Wood elf characters can take the waywatcher kindred and get that killing blow ability already.

I like the idea of the huntmaster with wolves and also the spite swarm. I think the codex could use a a bit of an update and would mainly like to see wardancers getting a slight ward buff etc, I honestly do not have any problems with the way the models look right now though it would be very nice to have plastic eternal guard/treekin and maybe a new version of treeman. Other than that I would not mind another branchwraith model other than drycha, I currently use a slightly converted normal dryad for branchwraiths. Would be nice to see something new there.

If glade riders had GG bows I might use them.

Honestly, I think spellsingers should get access to life and beasts and spellweavers also get access to light. Also, instead of Kindreds as an upgrade, just make them have different statlines and rules in the book but keep the ability to take 'vanilla' nobles as a cheaper, kinda jack of all trades, master of none.

gmaleron wrote:

And instead of a bear I vote for a guy on a Forest Wolf, If it looks good on Thunderwolf Cav it will look good for Wood Elves

Meh! Gobbos have wolves already... bears are bigger, bears are tougher, and could help end the "every army gets a dragon to make them feel better) and as for hunting packs? well aren't the wood elves practically fused in with nature? Doesn't make sense that they would have to have a pack master to "herd" their allies, and what happens if the packmaster dies? Some thought on this might help the idea.


Lore spells- I was thinking about one of the wood elves greatest strengths ( or what was one of their greatest strangths) the manipulation of the terrain. Someone already posted the ability to turn terrain into forests I was thinking a spell that could allow units to teleport around using "forests" as hubs. It would really make for some dynamic movement around the board which could help to counter horde armies.

How about a spell called overgrowth, a small impassible terrain block that you can cast in front of units, causing them to have to move around it, or binds them and prevents them from moving for a turn or two- might help with the shoot and move tactic of the WE's. Also, this could correlate to the spite swarm idea, essentially summoning spites instead of the terrain piece with the spites performing in various ways based on what kindred the caster has.

I definately like the idea of raising dryads too to whoever mentioned that!!!


So far we can somewhat agree on what needs to be fixed (basically everything) but lets focus on the specifics and get some of the more predominant ideas together... who knows, maybe a fandex of some sort!!!


Units to change model-wise:

eternal guard- no other army has to have an all metal troop choice period, and because this unit is basically a need in this army as it stands, shelling out all that cash is a major deterrent.

Treekin- at 23$ a pop, I could get 6 river trolls instead and still be way ahead of the game.

Wardancers- I believe they're ok with being metal, maybe an upgraded look to something non -transexual...

Waywatchers- again fine with them being metal, but maybe a newer look or more variety.

Treeman- an all plastic kit with options would make this a win win. Options to make a treeman ancient would be a double win.

Wild riders and warhawk riders- Again I'm fine with this as VC have their cavalry costing in the 100$ range but that money counts where it matters and these two units should reflect the same. the Warhawk riders (the riders) need a modeling upgrade.


Additional (new) units:

Sprite swarms: perfect for roadblocking and war machine hunting, (their small size perhaps ignores armor but attacks at a weaker strength?)

Shape shifters: The DE assassin or Goblin Skullker so to speak, can hide in troop choice units.

Packs of some sort but no pack master? Think forest think animals... bears? boars?

Special characters: Ideas needed... Lord on Giant Bear (couldn't resist hehe..), upgrade the lord on giant eagle and give him a name... skaw the falconer needs to come pack to us as well...


Magic: Druid vs Spell weaver/singer can they preform different roles. (while it has been mentioned that druids are more clerical by nature... no pun intended hehe) historically weren't they more wild and cultish?

Overgrowth: as mentioned earlier
Treeporting: as mentioned earlier
Summon Spites
Summon Dryads

Access to multiple lores: I here really feel that the wood elves need a nature magic of their own, or the ability to pool from multiple lores with spells that have a basis in nature...


Fixing the Broken (again, trying to pool up ideas that have been tossed around as well as adding some thought to them, in no way do all of them have to stick...):


GG- drop in points, tougher bow rules, 1 shot moving, 2 shots standing still, or one shot standing still with higher strength, better save (I have thought about this considerably, how about a dodge save as they are the fastest army in the game minus elves, but they don't wear armor so they would get an unmodified 5 or 6 + save... might be interesting if someone did the math).

GR- drop in points, carry GG bows

Eternal guard- point drop, stubborn if champion is taken, rather than a hero/lord ???

Dryads- ability to rank up or skirmish. (to add fluffwise, I really don't see these folk running from a battle if an army is invading the forest... dryads and eternal guard should reflect some sort of anvil unit for that style of play option in the army, and while they will certainly be smaller than most other anvils, they need something to keep them in the fight) +5 ward save??

Wardancers- more useful dances, ability to choose same dance over and over, an added movement (d6) dance, +5 ward save.

Waywatchers- higher str arrows, traps, hits ignore armor.

Wild riders- open for suggestions

Warhawk riders- again open for suggestions, perhaps a infiltrate or a flanking or reserve special rule...

Giant eagles- suggestions if any is needed?

Treekin- suggestions if anything needs to change other than the model

Treeman- T8, mobile catapult with perhaps limited ammo (1 or 2 boulders a game).



Lords/heros - different kindreds (emphasis on useful ones) suggestions needed

Special characters- more of them BRING BACK SKAW THE FALCONER!!!!


Some other things to think about as well

Centaurs
Bird swarms (black birds, ravens etc...)



Of course I probably missed some stuff, but CC is what makes the forum go round so...

Unreal, if you want to use this as a basis to collect info and tweak it, it be fine by me matey....

DeadBabySoup wrote:

gmaleron wrote:

And instead of a bear I vote for a guy on a Forest Wolf, If it looks good on Thunderwolf Cav it will look good for Wood Elves

Meh! Gobbos have wolves already... bears are bigger, bears are tougher, and could help end the "every army gets a dragon to make them feel better) and as for hunting packs? well aren't the wood elves practically fused in with nature? Doesn't make sense that they would have to have a pack master to "herd" their allies, and what happens if the packmaster dies? Some thought on this might help the idea.

Who says the Packmaster would be "herding" their allies?

Think of it as less of a "Wolf Pack and a Packmaster",but as a "Pack of Wolves and a Wood Elf Huntsman" functioning more like the way that we see Rangers and their animal companions in D&D work.
I'd kind of have the wolves acting as an independent melee unit, but the Huntsman is primarily a ranged unit--but the two synergize when they're operating in tandem.

meh, gobbos have wolves...

VC have wolves

too...........much..............wolf...............



I like the hunstman outlook though, I didn't think of it like that... what about a hawkmaster or falconer (skaw)?

Anything but more wolves.......

No, Goblins have Worgs and VC have Dire Wolves.

With Goblins, they break the wolves to their will. With VC, the wolves are undead and just do their own thing.

What better creature to see in an army themed around nature and the "Wild Hunt"?

A "Hawkmaster" or "Falconer" would really be useless. What good is a little tiny bird going to do?

And if they become a big creature; how does that differentiate them from the Hawk Riders?

Wild Hunt reminds me of Herne so War Stags of Athel Loren would be suitably majestic.

They could be flesh eating stags.
AFAIK no one does deer in fantasy, though there are probably some strange folks that into fantasy about deer!