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Pretty much everything in there...

Guardians:7 Points per model

conscripts:Some sort of "en masse rule where if a unit is Assualtet by the Group And are Outnumbered (by that ,I mean The Conscripts out number them 2/1 or 3/1) Said umit must IMMEDIATELY make a leadership test.

Deff Dread:give it the Fleet USR or AV 13 Fontal armor for 15+points.

Knight Commander Pask:Some sort of rule like FRFSRF,and give the squad BS4.

Eldar Guardians: For every three Guardians you may take a heavy weapon platform.

Eldar Defender Guardian - Increase armour to 4+, increase weapon range to 18", one Guardian may replace his Shuriken Catapult for a Shuriken Cannon for every 10 Guardians (they are assault 3)

Eldar Storm Guardian - Increase armour to 4+, CC weapons force re-roll of successful armour saves, one special weapon for every 5 Guardians.

(Dire Avengers since they're so similar to Defenders - uses Shuriken Catapult statistic in close combat as well, the full statistic including AP)

(No other Eldar units enjoy an increased armour save, only Guardians)

Reasons:
1. Eldar is a dying race, cheapening their units makes no sense
2. Eldar is an advanced race, giving boffer weapons to their precious HR makes no sense

Guardian Armour should be a 5+ in my opinion. Remember that guardians are the civillians of the Eldar, and won't be as heavily armoured as Aspect Warriors, who deserve that 4+. You also have Dark Eldar Kabalite warriors, who only have a 5+, giving guardians a 4+ will mean that your lowliest troop is better than IG, DE...

You also have to remember that you have better troops to buy, which will have the same save as a civillian with basic combat training, where would the point in using DAs or anything over guardians be?

Requia wrote:

bucheonman wrote:
Parasite of Mortrex:

Give him T5 or make him immune to insta-kill.

Parasite needs his spawned units not to count for KP more, he's got IC to deflect those nasty shots too.

Now Doom *really* needs this, 10 wounds but dies from a single krak missile? bugger that.

Fraking really? Eternal Warrior on Doom? too much.

Shining Spears: drop the cost to 25 a model, 6+ invuln and counter-charge. make CC an upgrade. increase the max unit size to 10. feel the pain.

Chimera - make the fire points only able to use lasguns.

Oh, wait, you meant ineffective bad instead of overpowered bad...

dancingcricket wrote:Chimera - make the fire points only able to use lasguns.

Oh, wait, you meant ineffective bad instead of overpowered bad...

Here we go again.

Please take the IG hate elsewhere... nobody wants to hear it.

Back on topic:

Ogryn:
I would say half these guys points cost for starters and then give them the option to purchase power weapons on a per model basis.
Make them a true h2h unit.

HWS:
Revert them to prior edition stats and make them count as two separate models, not the current T3 W2 single model bs.

Ratlings:
change them from T2 to T3 at a min.

jp400 wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:Chimera - make the fire points only able to use lasguns.

Oh, wait, you meant ineffective bad instead of overpowered bad...

Here we go again.

Please take the IG hate elsewhere... nobody wants to hear it.

Back on topic:

Ogryn:
I would say half these guys points cost for starters and then give them the option to purchase power weapons on a per model basis.
Make them a true h2h unit.
Agreed

HWS:
Revert them to prior edition stats and make them count as two separate models, not the current T3 W2 single model bs.
Why does this matter? For the bases? I can see that.

Ratlings:
change them from T2 to T3 at a min.
I think they'd be better served getting a point reduction to 7 points a model, on par with Vets. I've never had a problem with their stats.

Lonecoon wrote:

jp400 wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:Chimera - make the fire points only able to use lasguns.

Oh, wait, you meant ineffective bad instead of overpowered bad...

Here we go again.

Please take the IG hate elsewhere... nobody wants to hear it.

Back on topic:

Ogryn:
I would say half these guys points cost for starters and then give them the option to purchase power weapons on a per model basis.
Make them a true h2h unit.
Agreed

HWS:
Revert them to prior edition stats and make them count as two separate models, not the current T3 W2 single model bs.
Why does this matter? For the bases? I can see that.

Ratlings:
change them from T2 to T3 at a min.
I think they'd be better served getting a point reduction to 7 points a model, on par with Vets. I've never had a problem with their stats.

HWS: Bases are a slight concern, but not the main one. Having two wounds on a T3 5+ Sv model is... pointless and leads to them being easier to kill.

Ratlings: Thanks for point out the point cost. Completely forgot that. Yes, 7pts each with a T3 increase was what I wanted to say. Lets face it, T2 even for a guardsmen is junk.

Make flash shi.... ahem flash gitz erm.... NOT EXIST! bloody pointless unit.

ChocolateGork wrote:pariahs-give the necron special rule.

vanguard-5 point jump packs.

firewarriors-make them 8 points

Pariahs definitely need a boost.. badly.. Necron rule will make them more viable in combat. That or at least an invuln save.. otherwise they are wrecked in every game.

Vanguard boost I definitely approve of. I've been wanting to use vanguard pretty badly its always the points that make me say no.

gr1m_dan wrote:+1'000'000

Also -

Crisis Suits - BS4, change nothing else, just this. Elites?! Pfft.

I disagree with this... Yes they're the elite choices and I understand the fluff.. but there's a lot of fluff disregarded or not applied to either keep the balance in the game or its just ignored (to not make the squad OP). You can already Shoot multiple targets in the suits and you have jetpacks.. In addition they have multiple wounds, shield drones, and the marker lights to ridiculous things for Tau armies. BS4 might change the game to the degree where everyone will stop playing Spacewolves/Guard/BA and start playing tau shooting armies

I think that Honor Guard should be able to take Jump Packs. The Chapter Master can, so why can't the finest warriors in the army (besides the captains and Chapter Masters themselves) take them? They are a retinue, so keeping them with the CM is important, they can't do this with Jump Pack/Bike upgrade for the Chapter Master.
EDIT:

gloomygrim wrote:
Make flash shi.... ahem flash gitz erm.... NOT EXIST! bloody pointless unit.

Flash Gitz are not pointless. They're ork shooty.. so they're not fantastic.. but they aren't pointless. They can be mad scary on the field when positioned well enough.

Grey Templar wrote:

Tazz Azrael wrote:Tactical Terminators- they should get something that will make them as usefull as SS/TH termies.... maybe let them have 4 heavy weapons per squad and let them have plasma cannons (they ahve heavy flamers, cyclone misiles, multi meltas and assault cannons so why not spread the love of plasma around) make the cyclone misile launcher a heavy 2

Plasma Cannons would be cool, but the rest is a little screwed up.


Tactical Terminators can NOT take Multi-meltas and Clyclone Missile launchers ARE Heavy 2.

Wow i really need to buy the fith edd codex..... and i always thought they had a option for the multi melta... owell say-la-vi

Flash gitz are just complete turd, lootas (although elite) are better shooty unit and have a better chance of killin somethin at range were a flash git may as well shoot then assault and if your doing that nobz with kombie weps will do a better job and why would you take x amount of flash gitz over x amount of killa kans.

I do really hate them lol

I like the chimera for SWSs, but I'd also give them frag grenades. Practically the ONLY UNIT IN THE GUARD CODEX that doesn't get them for free (and, indeed has no access to them whatsoever), and they're one of the few units I'd ever actually use them with.

Otherwise...

Vanquisher: give the gun S9 and AP1. Really not too much to ask for a single BS3 shot a turn for 155 points.

Hellhound: smoke grenades, because, really...

Eradicator: AP3 to make it even CLOSE to a proximity to the colossus. Reduce the S by 1 or increase the cost by 15 points, whatever. As-is, you're paying HOW much for a single heavy flamer?

Scout sentinels: 5 or 10 points cheaper, base. Get rid of outflanking if need be. Spending 50 points for a single lascannon shot is simply too crappy, especially when they're competing against vendettas who do the job way better, way cheaper, with non-open-topped AV12, and with a transport capacity to boot.

Ogryn: either better leadership or some way to give them a reroll to morale tests. Needing to spend 100 points and an HQ slot on a lord commissar just to make them effective is inconvenient.

Stormtroopers: I agree on the 15 points apiece thing. Not because they necessarily need to be cheaper, but because at 16 points apiece they UTTERLY DESTROY guard list-building, basically guaranteeing that you have spare points left over. As far as I can tell, they're like the only thing in the codex other than bolt guns not divisible by 5. As such, there is no way to take a stormie squad that isn't either 5 or 10 strong. Not required to "un-suck" a unit, so much as there's no reason for this to be off.

Techpriest: All you've got to do is give them the marine ability where they can walk up to a tank and fix it. Needing to start in base contact is just ludicrous.

Regular priests: W2. That way you don't have to hide them at the ABSOLUTE REAR of a blob. That or WS4.

Avatar 720 wrote:Guardian Armour should be a 5+ in my opinion. Remember that guardians are the civillians of the Eldar, and won't be as heavily armoured as Aspect Warriors, who deserve that 4+. You also have Dark Eldar Kabalite warriors, who only have a 5+, giving guardians a 4+ will mean that your lowliest troop is better than IG, DE...

You also have to remember that you have better troops to buy, which will have the same save as a civillian with basic combat training, where would the point in using DAs or anything over guardians be?

The DA vs Defender Guardian reasoning is actually rather irrelevant since their roles are already too similar one or the other will be more point efficient, they need to be separated. Now, if Defender Guardians are supposed to be crew, that I can swallow, but in that case you need to tie them to the heavy weapons rather than attach the heavy weapons as an afterthought. Of course... that approach creates a vacuum in which the Storm Guardians operate.
It's a charlie foxtrot in the Eldar Troop section where the only really good unit is the dedicated transport (but that's for a different thread).

They are supposed to be better armed and armoured than Imperial Guard (plus their training is also supposed to be better, since it's militia by Eldar standards, not human standards). How or what the Dark Eldar operate under is also not very interesting considering they are not at all equivalent, right down to the point where Dark Eldar has a total disregard for the lower classes well-being, something the Craftworld Eldar can ill afford. Additionally, without 4+ armour or some really fancy special rules, Storm Guardians just aren't going to do what their operating manual says they should (and fancy special rules is the realm of elite warriors, on the other hand.)

Aspect Warriors are more a priesthood than a standing army.

Ailaros wrote:I like the chimera for SWSs, but I'd also give them frag grenades. Practically the ONLY UNIT IN THE GUARD CODEX that doesn't get them for free (and, indeed has no access to them whatsoever), and they're one of the few units I'd ever actually use them with.

Otherwise...

Vanquisher: give the gun S9 and AP1. Really not too much to ask for a single BS3 shot a turn for 155 points.

Agree Fully. I run FW AC and the Vanq's there are down right scary for around the same points cost. Give em Slick Loaders (which allows them to fire 2x if they don't move) and own any AV target on the board.

Hellhound: smoke grenades, because, really...
Agreed. Makes NO sense.

Eradicator: AP3 to make it even CLOSE to a proximity to the colossus. Reduce the S by 1 or increase the cost by 15 points, whatever. As-is, you're paying HOW much for a single heavy flamer?

Agree.

Scout sentinels: 5 or 10 points cheaper, base. Get rid of outflanking if need be. Spending 50 points for a single lascannon shot is simply too crappy, especially when they're competing against vendettas who do the job way better, way cheaper, with non-open-topped AV12, and with a transport capacity to boot.

I say 5 pts cheaper, keep outflank or 10 pts cheaper and remove outflank.

Techpriest: All you've got to do is give them the marine ability where they can walk up to a tank and fix it. Needing to start in base contact is just ludicrous.

Never played with a IG one, so if this is the case then I fully agree.

Vespids

Change guns to Assault 2.
Armor should be a 4++ (to show that they are always flying around and hard to hit).
Poisoned weapons (3+) in close combat.
Finally, should be able to move 6" in the assault phase.

Keep point costs the same and this would be perfect for that unit.

gloomygrim wrote:
Flash gitz are just complete turd, lootas (although elite) are better shooty unit and have a better chance of killin somethin at range were a flash git may as well shoot then assault and if your doing that nobz with kombie weps will do a better job and why would you take x amount of flash gitz over x amount of killa kans.

I do really hate them lol

I'm not saying they're the best choice. I'm saying they're not a useless choice. They have a number of reroll hits.. and honestly? How many High strength, low hp shots are needed against any certain target?

If they had a bs of 3 and were able to upgrade to assault 3 then maybe they wouldnt be as bad but as they are what they do but as they are HS a battle wagon/kan mob/big guns will do what they do better and quicker there only redeeming fetures are the messure before you shoot and roll for ap, but there not enough for them to be used its two pro's for a lot of cons.

If your army is focused on infantry and you really dont want any armour then i guess thats were they would fit in, but apart from that i cant see when you would choose them, even in a friendly game and the no playing to win everytime i dont think there worth taking.

Its the old "i think they suck you think there ok" thing, we wont ever agree on it lol.

Wraithguard.

18" guns.

Spiritseer changes them to Troops no matter their size.

DarknessEternal wrote:Wraithguard.

18" guns.

Spiritseer changes them to Troops no matter their size.

Or to the very least, SC/Craftworld special rule which makes Wraithguard troops.

Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marines

Make them a fifth edition thing... You know...With a sergeant standard

Thousand Sons Squad- 165 points
One aspiring Sorcerer and nine thousand suns marines
He gets a force weapon and bolt pistol standard (plus power armor)
Alll 1k sons have a bolter and power armour (yeah, that's it)
Special rules- The psyker commands, slow and purposeful, all is dust, inferno bolts
'All is dust'- Same as third edition. Weapons and close combat attacks of strength five or less cannot wound thousand sons
May take a rhino for 35 points. The sorcerer may take any unidivided psychic power for free, and may take bolt of change for 30 points.

Thousand sons are just awful. Aspiring sorcerers can easily soar above 100 points, which is ridiculous for a W1 model. Not to mention your run-of-the-mill 1k son is vastly overpriced for not having ANY assault capability.


Noisy Marines- NOT a fifth edition style unit
-Dudes are twenty points each, and come with a Sonic Blaster standard, along with regular CSM stuff (grenades, pistol, CCW)
-For every five models in the squad, three can upgrade their sonic blaster to a blastmaster for twenty points OR take a power weapon for fifteen points.
-One marine can be upraded to a noise champion for 15 points. He gets a doom siren standard, and may upgrade his CCW and Pistol to a pair of Lightning claws for 20 points.


So basically, you can take them as either shooty or assaulty. I like the idea of six blastermasters in a unit of ten guys

I would say 6 is a bit much, making it a per 5 guys thing makes a good bit of sense though. Also a pair of lightning claws should preclude having a ranged weapon.

Give necron destroyers AP3 instead of AP4, drop the str or rate of fire.

For C:SM:

-Honor Guard: All should have Iron Halos.

-Scouts: Sniper Rifles should add +1 BS.

-Devestators: May replace boltguns with heavy flamers for 20 points or Astartes grenade launchers for 15 points. Also, Heavy Bolters should have an additional profile, that is either Assault or Rapid Fire.

-Chaplain Cassius: Add Relentless.

-Tactical Terminators: Sergeant may replace his Storm Bolter with Astartes Grenade Launcher for 5 points. Any model may replace Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon for 5 points.

For C: BA:

-Captains: All options as in C:SM, plus some BA ones.

-Tactical Terminators: Any model may replace Power Fist with Glaive Encarmine for 5 points. Any model may replace Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon for 5 points.

-Deeath Company: May Take Jump Packs for 5 Points each.

For C:SM and C:BA

-Librarians: May replace Boltpistol with a Storm Shield: 25 Points

-Squad may take Jump Packs at no additional cost.

For Space Wolves:

-Bjorn: Can Take a Drop Pod as Dedicated Transport

-Iron Priests: Independent Charachter

-Long Fangs: Squad leader may replace his bolt pistol with a boltgun: 0 points.

Rune Priests: May replace bolt pistol with Storm Shield for 25 Points. May Take a Thunderwolf Mount for 45 Points.

Chaos Raptors:

Make 18 points each.

jp400 wrote:

Ailaros wrote:I like the chimera for SWSs, but I'd also give them frag grenades. Practically the ONLY UNIT IN THE GUARD CODEX that doesn't get them for free (and, indeed has no access to them whatsoever), and they're one of the few units I'd ever actually use them with.

Otherwise...

Vanquisher: give the gun S9 and AP1. Really not too much to ask for a single BS3 shot a turn for 155 points.

Agree Fully. I run FW AC and the Vanq's there are down right scary for around the same points cost. Give em Slick Loaders (which allows them to fire 2x if they don't move) and own any AV target on the board.

Hellhound: smoke grenades, because, really...
Agreed. Makes NO sense.

Eradicator: AP3 to make it even CLOSE to a proximity to the colossus. Reduce the S by 1 or increase the cost by 15 points, whatever. As-is, you're paying HOW much for a single heavy flamer?

Agree.

Scout sentinels: 5 or 10 points cheaper, base. Get rid of outflanking if need be. Spending 50 points for a single lascannon shot is simply too crappy, especially when they're competing against vendettas who do the job way better, way cheaper, with non-open-topped AV12, and with a transport capacity to boot.

I say 5 pts cheaper, keep outflank or 10 pts cheaper and remove outflank.

Techpriest: All you've got to do is give them the marine ability where they can walk up to a tank and fix it. Needing to start in base contact is just ludicrous.

Never played with a IG one, so if this is the case then I fully agree.

Hate to rain on your parade, but Slick Loader can only affect ordanance weapons, and the Vanquisher Battle Cannon is a heavy weapon, which the description specifically says cannot benefit from Slick Loader.

Some love for Tyranids?

All troops choices (bar rippers) and fast attack choices (bar sky slashers) gain assault grenades! All units increase in price one point except for Tyranid Warriors who are expensive as is. The Tyranid Prime also gains assault grenades at no extra cost.

EDIT: Counter attack might be ok too... But I think grenades are much better.

I'd be happy just to have a flesh hook (acts as assault grenades) option for warriors, they already come with the parts for it after all.