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Voidraven bomber

Make Void Lances AP 1 (from AP 2)

How are Voidravens broken? From what I've heard it's already pretty awesome.

Aren't Void Lances Str9? What you're saying is that you want a S9 Lance that is also AP1? You already have a better chance of breaking open AV13+ than a lascannon, why do you need the extra damage result if you're never rolling more than at least a 4 to penetrate?

Yeah, a strength 9 Lance doesn't need any more AP than it's already got. Not to mention the fact that it's got two of them, in addition to the plethora of missiles that it can put out.

Raynor933 wrote:

jp400 wrote:

Ailaros wrote:I like the chimera for SWSs, but I'd also give them frag grenades. Practically the ONLY UNIT IN THE GUARD CODEX that doesn't get them for free (and, indeed has no access to them whatsoever), and they're one of the few units I'd ever actually use them with.

Otherwise...

Vanquisher: give the gun S9 and AP1. Really not too much to ask for a single BS3 shot a turn for 155 points.

Agree Fully. I run FW AC and the Vanq's there are down right scary for around the same points cost. Give em Slick Loaders (which allows them to fire 2x if they don't move) and own any AV target on the board.

Hellhound: smoke grenades, because, really...
Agreed. Makes NO sense.

Eradicator: AP3 to make it even CLOSE to a proximity to the colossus. Reduce the S by 1 or increase the cost by 15 points, whatever. As-is, you're paying HOW much for a single heavy flamer?

Agree.

Scout sentinels: 5 or 10 points cheaper, base. Get rid of outflanking if need be. Spending 50 points for a single lascannon shot is simply too crappy, especially when they're competing against vendettas who do the job way better, way cheaper, with non-open-topped AV12, and with a transport capacity to boot.

I say 5 pts cheaper, keep outflank or 10 pts cheaper and remove outflank.

Techpriest: All you've got to do is give them the marine ability where they can walk up to a tank and fix it. Needing to start in base contact is just ludicrous.

Never played with a IG one, so if this is the case then I fully agree.

Hate to rain on your parade, but Slick Loader can only affect ordanance weapons, and the Vanquisher Battle Cannon is a heavy weapon, which the description specifically says cannot benefit from Slick Loader.

Which version are you using? Cause the printout straight from the FW website I have right here in my hand says otherwise.

Tigurius he's supposed to be a seasoned fighter yet has the same BS and Initiative of a tactical marine. So give him +1I, +1BS, +1W at least.

CSM independent characters:

Kharn: Give him eternal warrior
Ahriman: someting equal or against psychic hoods
Abaddon: 3rd ed daemon weapon rules with option of using 4th ed


CSM unit: something equal to ATSKNF and combat tactics

jp400 wrote:
Which version are you using? Cause the printout straight from the FW website I have right here in my hand says otherwise.

Where? I'd love this to be true, but I just went through the entire v1.1 update, and nowhere in that does it say that the Vanqusher Cannon there is not the Heavy 1 weapon it is in the normal codex.

He is talking about the forge world rules, not the codex ones.

Leman Russ Vanquisher: AP1 and some extra pain against MCs, if possible.

Leman Russ Punisher: 155 pts, and now it's USEFUL!

Rough Riders: Let them choose whether or not to use their lances, and give them close combat weapon AND laspistol.

Eldar Guardians- Change to 6 points per model. Can take 1 heavy weapon platform for every 10 models in the squad. Leave the rest as-is.

Swooping Hawks- Leave as is, but with a significant point decrease. (Maybe 15-16 points per model?)

Tau Fire Warriors- Change to 8 points per model.

Tau Pathfinders- Move to troops, remove mandatory transport.

Skyray- Reduce cost, or at least allow the missile rack to reload somehow.

Ethereal- Grants tablewide FNP (jk). Seriously though, maybe gives FNP to the unit he joins. Maybe Etherals gain a hover platform that lets them move as Jump Infantry (Jet Pack) so they can keep up with Crisis Suits. All of these would have a compensating increase in cost of course. Maybe Ethereals could even become a required unit in Tau forces over a certain size (a la the Emperor's Champion) as long as the Ethereal doesn't continue to suck.

Not just one race, but I'd let units either assault or move (just one) after deep striking. Shoot only if standing still.

To me, it just doesn't make sense to read about deep striking, how its soooo good (and they came racing out of the drop pod laying about... teleported in and killed everything before they could react...), but when its used all it does it present sweet targets.

papathrax wrote:Not just one race, but I'd let units either assault or move (just one) after deep striking

Have fun getting your face curb-stomped by Daemons, then. And BA.

gr1m_dan wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:

firewarriors-make them 8 points

+1'000'000

Also -

Crisis Suits - BS4, change nothing else, just this. Elites?! Pfft.

Indeed my bretheran...firewarrior currently cost more per model than hardened vets! who are VASTLY superior!
also, just to make the carbine competative, make it assault 2 rather than assault 1 with pinning. assault 2 with pinning means that its a viable choice for tau on the go, since they can still squeeze off 2 shots at 18"
Also? make kroot have armor standard...and drop their points to 6. they have one more strength than an ork boy but none of the benefits that an ork boy gets such as WAAAGH! or mob fearless...make field craft the optional upgrade instead...and make the krootox be able to be separate from the squad. Also? make him cheaper. he currently costs more than two space marines yet has one less bs t i LD and aboslutely no save. those 3 wounds aren't gonna mean jack against high strength weapons...he dies too easy.
Give ethereals an armor save (they're on a battlefield for christs sake!) and bring back Aun'shi or what ever his name is...
I have an entire thread on how to fix shadowsun...
Make stealth suits 20 points or so (thats how much grey knights are right?) and let them take plasma rifles as an upgrade (10 points? 15?)
I'd love to have an abfp on any suit but I can see how that would quickly become over powered vs guard and such...throwing so many pie plates around...then again guard have all those pie plates...
make advanced stabilizer come standard on broadsides for no point increase. (theyre already ungodly expensive...)
make the sky ray more like the whirlwind, with different missile loadouts and an increased capacity (since right now it can basically empty its entire compliment in one turn, thereby making it useless)
make gun drones (independant and otherwise) 8 points. because yes they may have twinlinked assault 2 weapons, but they have no leadership bonus and have the BS of orks.
Piranhas I'd like to see at the cost of a landspeeder (which has better bs and can carry two sets of bs 4 weapons...one of which is an assault cannon for crying out loud)
sting wings need to either be better at assault or shoot more shots to be worth the cost of a space marine. especially considering they only have a 5+ save.
pathfinders need a way to shoot on the go...in todays game its all about mobility and they're faaaar too static considering theyll take 2 turns to relocate and shoot. same goes for sniper teams. And a rail rifle only shoots 6" more than a pulse rifle? WTF? for that kind of cost I'll just take more firewarriors and hope their one less strength will do the job.
devilfish needs to be cheaper (sensing a pattern here?) currently it costs as much as a rhino with two storm bolters a hunter killer missile and the ability to ignore shaken rolls. 60 points I can live with, because it is a skimmer and it does have one more AV on the front, but it has one less bs!
finally, considering the cost of a pathfinder, or even a markerlight for any other team, it's very hard to justify that a markerdrone is worth as much as a stealth suit. at 15-20 points I'd find that more believable...
Well that all of my custom codex I can find...I'm pretty sure compared to BA and such that none of those upgrades will make them OP...

CSM: make Spawn have a 4+ save, Right now they dont have any save which is why no one uses them. If they had a bit of a save they would at least be useful for tying up an assault squad.

Orks: Kaptin Badrukk +1 BS, I dont need a 135pt flashgit with a bigger gun (which can now kill him) and +1WS, especially if he only has a choppa anyway.

Gavo wrote:

papathrax wrote:Not just one race, but I'd let units either assault or move (just one) after deep striking

Have fun getting your face curb-stomped by Daemons, then. And BA.

Actually, all units can move after they deepstrike. It's called running.

Also, space marines DO have the ability to assault out of deepstrike. It's called Heroic Intervention.

yea but thats one you gotta declare before you DS. I think he's looking for a more OP version where you can land, go "hey i'm in assault range I'm gonna assault you instead of shooting" and then om nom on my firewarriors

Yeah, thats what I'm looking for.

i play Guard, so believe me, I know the downside to what I'm saying. I just think its a little silly to DS in, then have everyone grouped together sitting still for a turn just waiting for me to shoot basilisks/plasma sentinels/marbo at them. Even just being able to move 6 inches would make DS a much more tactically viable option... Which it isn't if theres an ungodly amount of terrain anyway.

TH/SS Terminators: Give them FNP as standard with current price. They die too quickly to mass fire.

TWC: Give them 2+ saves. ML blow right though these guys

BloodCrushers: Give them 3 wounds. 2 wounds doesn't represent the size of a jugger enough. Make them 3 points more expensive.

Long Fangs: Give them ML for free. You lose guys so fast due to size squad restriction and they're really old. They should get ML for free, they would have latched on to one all this time.

Tyranids: Their entire codex is perfect, no weak links here.

IG: Reduce Vendetta cost. They can be shot by anything due to height----maybe take off 30 points or so and they'll be worth it. Also Chimeras only have side armor 10, they should cost no more than a rhino.



That's all I got for now.

Wait ... vendetta? VENDETTA? Why, in the name of the Emperor's Golden Toilet, is the Vendetta, one of the most powerful and useful units in the game, in this thread?

Yeah, thats what I'm looking for.

Hello, friend! Tired of your Deepstriking units not being able to instantly gore your unsuspecting enemies with the furious wrath of a thousand suns? Sick of your fancy teleporters freezing your units in time for an entire assault phase?

Well, my friend, I have just what you're looking for.

Join Chaos!

The benefits are great! With our Daemonic Summoning, any one of your well-placed and unsuspecting sergeants could become the unwilling vessel for an unholy manifestation of all that is wrong with the universe! And the best part?

You can assault right away!

Yessir, that's right! No waiting around while your mighty soul-raping monstrosity picks its nose! Right when Sergeant Kallistor explodes in a shower of gore that reforms itself into the very face of madness and decay, you're guaranteed a free assault! All you have to do is drive your shiny transports up to the enemy's noses beforehand! Sound good? IT GETS BETTER!

You're also given the option of summoning a delightful ravening horde of daemons from the nightmare dimension of the warp! These happy little servants of the Chaos God of your choice will gladly disembowel your enemies with both grace and skill, and they're an amazing party trick. Oh, and I almost forgot... They too can assault out of Deepstrike! All you need is an Icon of Chaos to guide them into the material realm, and then you can sit back and watch the fun!

Oh, and did I mention that they never scatter? It's a win-win-win-win! That's four wins, all at once!


...Yeah, so basically Chaos can do that, is what I'm saying.

AgeOfEgos wrote:TH/SS Terminators: Give them FNP as standard with current price. They die too quickly to mass fire.

TWC: Give them 2+ saves. ML blow right though these guys

BloodCrushers: Give them 3 wounds. 2 wounds doesn't represent the size of a jugger enough. Make them 3 points more expensive.

Long Fangs: Give them ML for free. You lose guys so fast due to size squad restriction and they're really old. They should get ML for free, they would have latched on to one all this time.

Tyranids: Their entire codex is perfect, no weak links here.

IG: Reduce Vendetta cost. They can be shot by anything due to height----maybe take off 30 points or so and they'll be worth it. Also Chimeras only have side armor 10, they should cost no more than a rhino.



That's all I got for now.

..............

I disagree with everything you said.

I think your post is nothing more then an elaborate troll... cause with your upgrades everything listed here would be massively overpowered..
Not to mention thinking the Nid dex is perfect...
ROFL!

Melissia wrote:Wait ... vendetta? VENDETTA? Why, in the name of the Emperor's Golden Toilet, is the Vendetta, one of the most powerful and useful units in the game, in this thread?

My post was just joking around Melissa . I disagree with everything I put~!



Squads from two armies I really want to see fixed:


IG: Ogryns: Give them 4+ armor saves, lower their cost a bit.
Rough Riders: Give them 4+ armor saves, lower them to 8 points

Tyranid Codex: Have Phil Kelly rewrite the entire thing, let Cruddance pack bitz boxes. I don't have the energy to address everything wrong in this codex....but safe to say this should be the most tinker-friendly army in the entirety of the 40k Universe. They live to adapt, evolve and their codex is anything but. What a travesty and I don't even play Nids.

AgeOfEgos wrote:TH/SS Terminators: Give them FNP as standard with current price. They die too quickly to mass fire.

TWC: Give them 2+ saves. ML blow right though these guys

BloodCrushers: Give them 3 wounds. 2 wounds doesn't represent the size of a jugger enough. Make them 3 points more expensive.

Long Fangs: Give them ML for free. You lose guys so fast due to size squad restriction and they're really old. They should get ML for free, they would have latched on to one all this time.

Tyranids: Their entire codex is perfect, no weak links here.

IG: Reduce Vendetta cost. They can be shot by anything due to height----maybe take off 30 points or so and they'll be worth it. Also Chimeras only have side armor 10, they should cost no more than a rhino.



That's all I got for now.

Great minds think alike

MOTF: Make it an option to include to swap the master of the armoury rule for something that lets all Rhino-based tanks have the repair ability of the base Rhino. Or go ahead and stick in an 'Iron Father' upgrade with Chapter Tactics: No Chaplains, but all veterans (including terminators and SM sgts) have a one-time FNP (to represent the bionics). Less a 'underpowered' issue than I really feel that IH kinda got the shaft in the army list.

the MOTF is fine as is, dred spam si very fun, but Bionics would be cool.

maybe a 20 point upgrade for every Sergeant, Sternguard, and Vanguard to get a 5+ invuln save. IF you take a MOTF.

Here's my fix for the Skyray:
Wargear upgrade for like 20 pts:
Satellite Targeting.
Before the beginning of the owner's turn, roll 1d6; place this number of markerlights on any enemy unit (or units) within LoS of a Tau Skyray or Pathfinder with the total number of markerlight tokens not to exceed the die roll. No roll to hit is required; however, these tokens may only be used by a vehicle with the Satellite Targeting wargear. This ability may always be used until the vehicle is destroyed.

Then I'd add this as standard:
Alpha Strike
Once per game, the Skyray may fire all of its remaining Seeker missiles in one barrage at a target that is within LoS of the Skyray and regardless of whether the target has a markerlight token. This is treated as a Barrage 1 fired by a BS equal to the vehicle's current BS, large blast marker with Strength equal to 3 plus the number of missiles fired and AP equal to 7 minus the number of missiles fired.

And finally this:
When a skyray has exhausted its supply of seeker missiles, it may choose to reload; this takes one complete turn during which the skyray may not move or fire any weapons as the crew is completely absorbed in the reloading process.

There wouldn't be a Tau player around that wouldn't jump at something like that.

Rough Riders: Make them 15 points. Give them 2 wounds. Keep everything else the same.

I know you're thinking "OMFG! Overpowered!" Maybe, but here's the logic: Rough Riders are primarily a melee unit. They currently cost twice what a guardsman does, but don't really do any better than them except on the initial charge. They're a suicide unit right now. Give each model an extra wound would increase their staying power. Keeping the same average stats means that he's not hitting any more often, but he is staying in the fight longer. This allows you to strike, run away, then come back for a second charge.

Failing that, increase their WS to 4, because seriously, you've got dudes on horseback with spears. They know how to handle a damn weapon.

Avatar 720 wrote:Aren't Void Lances Str9? What you're saying is that you want a S9 Lance that is also AP1? You already have a better chance of breaking open AV13+ than a lascannon, why do you need the extra damage result if you're never rolling more than at least a 4 to penetrate?

yes I want Str9 AP1
the void raven costs 145 point and has 2 VLs.
a ravager costs 105 points and has 3 DLs.
The ravager will get more glances and more pens against all forms of armor vunerable to the "lance rule". 2 void lances are better than 3 dark lances against monoliths and a blessed hull land raiders. That is it. Is that worth 40 extra points when its far worse against everything else?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shelegelah wrote:Yeah, a strength 9 Lance doesn't need any more AP than it's already got. Not to mention the fact that it's got two of them, in addition to the plethora of missiles that it can put out.

again, a ravager has 3 lances, which is better than 2 slightly stronger ones unless the stronger ones are more likely to do damage. The missiles are ok, but you have to pay for them. The Razorwing gets its missiles for free which makes it a ton more useful.

Ailaros wrote:Techpriest: All you've got to do is give them the marine ability where they can walk up to a tank and fix it. Needing to start in base contact is just ludicrous.

They already have that. The only difference between Techpriest and Techmarine Blessings of the Omnissiah is that the Techpriest doesn't have access to a servoharness. It's only necessary to be in base contact with a damaged vehicle in the shooting phase and neither gone to ground nor falling back. The vehicle can even shoot a gun that was repaired that turn just like if a Techmarine fixed it. The previous codex's techpriest did have to start the turn in base contact but that was fixed in the current codex.


edit: And since I'm already here, it'd be nice if rough riders got back the options to not take hunting lances (or lose the requirement to use the lance on the first charge) and to upgrade the entire squad with melta bombs. I started converting a squad of those guys back before the codex changed to make lances mandatory and remove the melta bomb option. The unit isn't so much crappy as it is niche but it got one of its niches downgraded with this codex.

Sentinels: Not much you can do to make them better without major changes, but maybe make them a little cheaper so they aren't quite so inefficient?

Priests: The way they work in Witch Hunters and Krieg siege regiments makes them considerably scarier. Instead of being ICs they just attach to a squad before the game starts. It'd be nice if their special ability worked on Ogryn and it would make sense for it not to work with techpriests and servitors.

Penal Legion: Fundamentally flawed, complete rewrite. They're supposed to be desperate, expendable men, not expensive guys with random superpowers.

Heavy weapons squad: If there were a lead heavy weapons team as a sort of sergeant equivalent that would solve a couple problems.