Fix a crappy squad

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**ChrisWWII**

Raxmei wrote:They already have that. The only difference between Techpriest and Techmarine Blessings of the Omnissiah is that the Techpriest doesn't have access to a servoharness. It's only necessary to be in base contact with a damaged vehicle in the shooting phase and neither gone to ground nor falling back. The vehicle can even shoot a gun that was repaired that turn just like if a Techmarine fixed it. The previous codex's techpriest did have to start the turn in base contact but that was fixed in the current codex.

Unfortunately they can't, if I repair a gun my enemy has a whole nother turn to glance it, or destroy it again. This is why the techprist sucks...he just doesn't do enough to be worth it. Maybe if you let him ignore shaken/stunned results it'd be better....As it stands, the Techpriest is a better objective than unit. He does have some shining ability in Apoc, where he can follow around a Baneblade or a Titan and play Mr. Fix it...but not in regular 40k. I'd rather find something more useful to spend 45 points on than a Techpriest.

**ObiFett**

agnosto wrote:Here's my fix for the Skyray:
Wargear upgrade for like 20 pts:
Satellite Targeting.
Before the beginning of the owner's turn, roll 1d6; place this number of markerlights on any enemy unit (or units) within LoS of a Tau Skyray or Pathfinder with the total number of markerlight tokens not to exceed the die roll. No roll to hit is required; however, these tokens may only be used by a vehicle with the Satellite Targeting wargear. This ability may always be used until the vehicle is destroyed.

Then I'd add this as standard:
Alpha Strike
Once per game, the Skyray may fire all of its remaining Seeker missiles in one barrage at a target that is within LoS of the Skyray and regardless of whether the target has a markerlight token. This is treated as a Barrage 1 fired by a BS equal to the vehicle's current BS, large blast marker with Strength equal to 3 plus the number of missiles fired and AP equal to 7 minus the number of missiles fired.

And finally this:
When a skyray has exhausted its supply of seeker missiles, it may choose to reload; this takes one complete turn during which the skyray may not move or fire any weapons as the crew is completely absorbed in the reloading process.

There wouldn't be a Tau player around that wouldn't jump at something like that.

This would be the awesomest thing ever. I have over 6k points of Tau and not a single Skyray because they are horrible and not fun. This would make me buy three. If nothing else because they would be fun to use.

**Ailaros**

Raxmei wrote:Heavy weapons squad: If there were a lead heavy weapons team as a sort of sergeant equivalent that would solve a couple problems.

Yeah, really, what's the deal? They should make HWSs a 4-model squad. 3 of them have to have heavy weapons, and the 4th comes with Ld8, +1A, and can take a vox.

**Raxmei**

ChrisWWII wrote:Unfortunately they can't, if I repair a gun my enemy has a whole nother turn to glance it, or destroy it again. This is why the techprist sucks...he just doesn't do enough to be worth it. Maybe if you let him ignore shaken/stunned results it'd be better....As it stands, the Techpriest is a better objective than unit. He does have some shining ability in Apoc, where he can follow around a Baneblade or a Titan and play Mr. Fix it...but not in regular 40k. I'd rather find something more useful to spend 45 points on than a Techpriest.

I'd interpreted the following shooting phase as later in that shooting phase. How do Space Marines play it with Techmarines? That part of their rules is worded identically.

**Grey Templar**

Space Marine Techmarines can walk up, fix the gun, and the tank can then fire it in the same shooting phase.

it's pretty clear how it works.

**ChrisWWII**

Blessings of the Omnissiah, page 34. The Techpriest has to be in base contact with a vehicle in the shooting phase, so he can move there in the movement phase, and attempt to repair one Weapons Destroyed or Immobilised result on a 5+.

Now, directly quoting: "If a Weapon Destroyed result is repaired, that weapon can be fired in the following Shooting Phase." Following, and since the Techpriest is rolling to repair in this shooting phase, following shooting phase would be the next turn.

**loota boy**

Make flashgitz loota priced, give badrukk a powerweapon, give them one of the upgrade options for free.

Make looted wagons 13/11/10, and why not just stick the boomgun on there by default.. no-one uses them as transports. Perhaps make don't press dat! a little less brutal.

weirdboys get wraphead by default, at no cost upgrade. Give them higher leadership. Throw in some minor powers that they can choose from, and let them use the minor one plus the random one in the same turn. Make a cheaper version of warphead that allows them to roll both dice and choose either result.

**Melissia**

Ailaros wrote:
Raxmei wrote:Heavy weapons squad: If there were a lead heavy weapons team as a sort of sergeant equivalent that would solve a couple problems.

Yeah, really, what's the deal? They should make HWSs a 4-model squad. 3 of them have to have heavy weapons, and the 4th comes with Ld8, +1A, and can take a vox.

Agreed.

**ChrisWWII**

Ailaros wrote:
Raxmei wrote:Heavy weapons squad: If there were a lead heavy weapons team as a sort of sergeant equivalent that would solve a couple problems.

Yeah, really, what's the deal? They should make HWSs a 4-model squad. 3 of them have to have heavy weapons, and the 4th comes with Ld8, +1A, and can take a vox.

This would make them go from 'meh' to 'Ohh, useful!' I'm in full support of it.

**Ailaros**

In the VERY least, it would make it so that a single shot from a S6+ weapon doesn't stand a roughly 50% chance to make the whole squad run off the board. I mean, even if you had to pay like 10 points for the sergeant team upgrade, it would still be worth it most of the time.

**Melissia**

Dunno, I like heavy weapons squads-- they already are useful. But that doesn't mean that they don't need improvements... just cause something is useful doesn't mean it is perfect.

**Luke_Prowler**

loota boy wrote:Make flashgitz loota priced, give badrukk a powerweapon, give them one of the upgrade options for free.

Flash gitz have nob stats, making them Loota priced would be ridiculous, although I agree with the rest.

Weird boyz should be elites, IC, and be taken 1-3

**Riddick40k**

For C:SM The Apothecary should become an Elite choice and come in squads of 1-3 that grant Feel No Pain to the entire squad and are ICs, Give them the choices to get power weapons and melta bombs.

**Exergy**

Riddick40k wrote:For C:SM The Apothecary should become an Elite choice and come in squads of 1-3 that grant Feel No Pain to the entire squad and are ICs, Give them the choices to get power weapons and melta bombs.

I like that they can be added to any squad but giving them options for power weapons and melta bombs is going too far. They are supposed to be healing people not cutting down enemies and blowing up tanks.

**ChrisWWII**

"Death or healing, I care not which you seek." ~DoW SM Apothecary.

**jp400**

Riddick40k wrote:For C:SM The Apothecary should become an Elite choice and come in squads of 1-3 that grant Feel No Pain to the entire squad and are ICs, Give them the choices to get power weapons and melta bombs.

The ability to give even more space marines army builds FNP?

No... Just no.

**Melissia**

Yeah, I think I'd shy away from that. Not unless you're also going ot give every Ork squad the option to get a painboy which gives them FNP for free.

**ChrisWWII**

Not fixing a broken squad, but being able to add medics to IG blob squads would be nice, if a little OTT. They're the one squad in the IG codex that could really use FNP, but they can't get it.

Of course, FNP for Guardsmen is a lot less nasty then it would be for Marines...but I'm thinking a 50 man power blob with FNP, could be a bit broken...

**Melissia**

Or even more broken, a sixty six man blob squad with twelve power weapons who are all WS4.

**ChrisWWII**

...Who can do that? Death Korps?

**Devastator**

yep i think dkok can do that, also with power fists

**jp400**

Lets be real here, a IG with a power fist isn't really all that scary.

**Ailaros**

Actually, my idea for guard medics was sort of like Fabius Bile.

A medic costs 40 points, and is taken from fake HQ slots like a priest. At the beginning of the game, you must assign him to a squad (the medic is not an independent character).

A medic gives the squad to which he is assigned FNP (so long as the medic is alive) for +2 points per model in the squad.

That way, you could give a 50-man blob FNP, but the medic would cost you 140 points: the price of 30 more dudes.

That way the medic would be nice, but not necessarily an automatic choice.

Oh, and don't get me started about DKoK abuse...

**ChrisWWII**

One Guardsmen with a power fist isn't scary. But how about 12? And they have around 50 ablative wounds? And they have Stubborn +Ld9? Welcome to the hell of attrition that is powerblobs.

Edit: I rather like Ailaros's ideas for blob Medics...sounds rather interesting, and not too OP.

**jp400**

ChrisWWII wrote:One Guardsmen with a power fist isn't scary. But how about 12? And they have around 50 ablative wounds? And they have Stubborn +Ld9? Welcome to the hell of attrition that is powerblobs.

Edit: I rather like Ailaros's ideas for blob Medics...sounds rather interesting, and not too OP.

Sorry, but I still fail to see the scary in this.

**Melissia**

jp400 wrote:Lets be real here, a IG with a power fist isn't really all that scary.

But twelve of them all at WS4 with about 44 ablative wounds IS pretty scary. The whole thing costs about 800 points mind you and that's without any special weapons, but it's still a very scary proposition. You could have two of them in a 1750 point army and combined with Orders good luck getting rid of THAT one kill point unit in a kill point game without losing kill points yourself. And the army would still have room for tanks and arty in a 2000 point army.

**ChrisWWII**

jp400 wrote:

Sorry, but I still fail to see the scary in this.

Ok, on the charge they will be hitting you with 36, WS4, S6, PW attacks, and 108 regular attacks. Even if that doesn't wipe you out, you have 54 bodies to go through before you even begin to damage the Guardsmen punching you with their powerfists. Marines will crumple under the sheer weight of attacks, Eldar won't be able to stand up against the masses of bodies. The only things that could out attrition them would be a swarm of Guants or Orks, and even then they'll be tied up for practically the rest of the game as they bash away at each other.

The Guardsmen will also hardly ever runaway thanks to re-rollable Leadership 9. Good luck breaking the deadlock.

**jp400**

Melissia wrote:
jp400 wrote:Lets be real here, a IG with a power fist isn't really all that scary.
But twelve of them all at WS4 with about 44 ablative wounds IS pretty scary. The whole thing costs about 800 points mind you and that's without any special weapons, but it's still a very scary proposition. You could have two of them in a 1750 point army and combined with Orders good luck getting rid of THAT one kill point unit in a kill point game without losing kill points yourself. And the army would still have room for tanks and arty in a 2000 point army.

I mean don't get me wrong, it sounds hard.. but I honestly wouldn't call it scary in my book. Then again, I like PIE/H Flamer throwing armies.. so I really haven't had much problems fighting blob IG.

Granted, this may just be a case of YMMV.

**Ailaros**

jp400 wrote:Sorry, but I still fail to see the scary in this.

Do the math.

6 WS4 dudes with power fists get 18 attacks on the charge. Let's assume that they don't have a priest for preferred enemy.

18 attacks yields 9 hits for 8 wounds. Said again, JUST the hidden powerfists just nearly aced a 10-man tac squad on their own. Said 18 attacks also bowls over a wraithlord after two rounds of combat. It also puts 3 penetrating hits and a glance on something with rear armor AV10 assuming it moved at combat speed.

And that's JUST ON THE CHARGE. After that you get TURN AFTER TURN of this kind of carnage until all 44 guardsmen are finally wiped out.

Power blobs destroy everything but like wraithlord on their own, and that's just with power weapons and a couple melta upgrades. You don't even need to do the math to see that. Power fists would just be insane.

... which is why DKoK is far from legal in competitive games.

**jp400**

ChrisWWII wrote:
jp400 wrote:

Sorry, but I still fail to see the scary in this.

Ok, on the charge they will be hitting you with 36, WS4, S6, PW attacks, and 108 regular attacks. Even if that doesn't wipe you out, you have 54 bodies to go through before you even begin to damage the Guardsmen punching you with their powerfists. Marines will crumple under the sheer weight of attacks, Eldar won't be able to stand up against the masses of bodies. The only things that could out attrition them would be a swarm of Guants or Orks, and even then they'll be tied up for practically the rest of the game as they bash away at each other.

The Guardsmen will also hardly ever runaway thanks to re-rollable Leadership 9. Good luck breaking the deadlock.

See, the thing is.. that entire squad isn't going to reach my lines untouched. And that is the key right there to defeating the blob.