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but if it's supposed to be as big and bulky as a Trygon they should have made it T6 IMHO).

Size means nothing.
Since it flys that would hint it may be large, but has a hollow bone structure to allow flight.


Pick any animal without wings, then compare it to a bird of the same size.
The animal will be alot tougher due to a solid bone structure.




My shrikes are warriors with gargoyle wings, and my parasite is a mash-up of the old tyrant with wings (FW warrior wings)
Then my harpy is trygon size.

If i line all 3 up im sure someone can tell the difference in each of them, which when it comes to games is something that is essential.

Sasori wrote:

Dave_Nz wrote:Might i add the following,

My harpy model is on an extended flying base, about 1.5 times the normal one, the warrior legs have been replaced with bigger ones, the gargoyle wings are the biggest out of the box.

tl/dr
the model isn't warrior size.

Doesn't sound Like it's close to Trygon Size, Either.

Oh im sorry, i must have missed the rule that states that harpies must be trygon size.

Could you direct me to where abouts that is?

Like, seriously?

Jackal wrote:

Size means nothing.
Since it flys that would hint it may be large, but has a hollow bone structure to allow flight.

Pick any animal without wings, then compare it to a bird of the same size.
The animal will be alot tougher due to a solid bone structure.

Yeah - that's definitely a valid point. In fact after re-reading the fluff it states as much there...

Dave_Nz wrote:

Oh im sorry, i must have missed the rule that states that harpies must be trygon size.

Could you direct me to where abouts that is?

Like, seriously?

I doubt there is any rule as such. I think people are just referring to the general description in the codex that states "Where the Gargoyle is very much akin to a winged Termagant, the Harpy appears much closer in nature to a Trygon."

The model (when it finally comes out) will probably be much closer in size to a Trygon then any other model in the Tyranid range, but until a model comes out I think that something that looks distinct in appearance, and is at least larger than all the 'non-monstrous' models would probably be deemed acceptable (or at least I would accept it).

Those, IMO, are what harpies should look like both in scale and shape. Should GW agree with me when the kit comes out, we will see. They are subpar MC's, that die every time I place them on the table, but damn they look cool!

Oh im sorry, i must have missed the rule that states that harpies must be trygon size.

Could you direct me to where abouts that is?

Like, seriously?

There is no rule.

But, can you please direct me to where the tournament you brought a warriors with wings to a tournament and actually accepted it?

Like, seriously?

wisdomseyes1 wrote:

Oh im sorry, i must have missed the rule that states that harpies must be trygon size.

Could you direct me to where abouts that is?

Like, seriously?

There is no rule.

But, can you please direct me to where the tournament you brought a warriors with wings to a tournament and actually accepted it?

Like, seriously?

Kk obviously didn't read description of my harpy.

No... I did. It is basically a warrior size with a flying base. You use the "biggest wings" in the gargoyle boz and it has Big legs. Gratz. That is still warrior sized... regardless of the base.

A warrior torso with wings is perfectly acceptable until a model comes out. Because there IS NO OFFICIAL MODEL.
Until one does come out, ANY objections as to a models legitimacy are subject to me saying "Yeah, cry more" because your arguments are based on FLUFF.

Heres the facts, folks.

Tyranid Codex, Page 43:
"...the harpy appears much closer in nature to a Trygon."
And later on that page:
"Perhaps due to its opportuinistic nature, the Harpy tends to avoid protracted assaults."

But wait! "In addition to several pairs of Scything Talons..."

So even if fluff was to be used as absolute law, wheres my 2 or more sets of ST for rerolls?

Ah well, lets focus on the two points everyone else harps on. It needs to be like a trygon, and it needs to avoid battles. A small harpy avoids battles! Lets slap some trygon bits on a warior and some wings, too! Yeeeeeaaaaaaah Legal cheese!

Legal though it may be, it is the textbook definition of modeling for advantage. I can't call you out as a cheater for it, but it isn't something I'd do personally. (See pics above).

tetrisphreak wrote:Legal though it may be, it is the textbook definition of modeling for advantage. I can't call you out as a cheater for it, but it isn't something I'd do personally. (See pics above).

I agree. And Im not a fan of people that do that. They instantly become asshats in my book. Its like that IG player I heard about that made the barrels on his LRBT 18 inches long, because it didnt say he couldnt do that, and took them to a tournament. Seriously, how bad does one have to win?


Not to mention, a warrior with wings is a shrike. THATS in the codex. And Ive never seen a warrior count as a MC ever. I say a carnifex or trygon, period.

KingCracker wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Legal though it may be, it is the textbook definition of modeling for advantage. I can't call you out as a cheater for it, but it isn't something I'd do personally. (See pics above).

I agree. And Im not a fan of people that do that. They instantly become asshats in my book. Its like that IG player I heard about that made the barrels on his LRBT 18 inches long, because it didnt say he couldnt do that, and took them to a tournament. Seriously, how bad does one have to win?


Not to mention, a warrior with wings is a shrike. THATS in the codex. And Ive never seen a warrior count as a MC ever. I say a carnifex or trygon, period.

Well people that decide upon others instantly based on one fact makes them instantly a judgemental person.

I instantly decided that.

I also assume anyone with a neckbeard to be undereducated/ a pedophile.

I do always reserve final judgement until they resort to Internet namecalling though, that's usually the coffin nail on the matter.

For me, the issue isn't about winning. It's the 3 Fs.
Fun, fairness, frugality.
Fun- it's a game, and the second it becomes something more we've crossed the threshold into crazyland.
Fairness- basically, be rational on this so both players have fun. Otherwise you're just a tool kicking puppies.
Frugality- did I just make a mc out of spare parts? Bet your ass.

A warrior with wings is a MC? Interesting.

So... by the logic that people have been going by... there is no "official" model for the swarmlord. I am going to bring a ripper swarm to a tournament with toothpicks as my "bone sabers"

After all... it doesn't have to look like what the codex says. It it just has to have the represented parts. Right?

I can use Zoantrhopes as Tervigans to right?

how about a gant with really big wings as my parasite? I want to get easy access to cover, i don't care how big the model is... it doesn't have to be represented fairly as long as there is no model right?

oh! I'm going to take a CD and base it. That would make a good Mycetic spore.

If you can honestly say that the way a model SHOULD look doesn't matter... your wrong. And... if those defending this have been to a tourney with the harpy the are referring to (why you would bring a harpy to a tourney I am not sure) and the reffs ALLOWED it... please tell me where it was... I want to know what morons allowed it.

I've taken my big birds to tourneys before (they inevitably die, the most recent killshot was delivered by a s10 ap1 conversion beamer :-D. Mostly i use them to add extra MC's for the sake of running a themed list. And I expectedly placed in the middle of the pack but I had a good time regardless.

Oh, and in no way was I getting cover saves unless there were cityscape tables, seeing as how my harpy has the footprint of a Valkyrie (almost).

wisdomseyes1 wrote:... your wrong...

You're welcome to come by Houston's Tomball GW Saturdays. We'll all be sure to laugh at you and lay down sick burns all day long.

My dad isn't gay. I am however. How that has anything to do with the conversation I have no idea.

You never answered if I was correct. So I can do those things listed yes?

You suggested that the mental acuity of Scott, the local Blackshirt and the local refs was somewhat lacking. What just happened is that I returned an insult in kind.
The deal works like this : Scott lets me play whatever harpies I'd like, because I bought like $2000 of Tyranids and other models from him, and spend more all the time.
He currently doesn't have any Harpy models to sell me, but there is an understood future buisness relationship there. If he blocks it in the store (A nice one, too. In a big city), he knows that I will become upset and not purchase from him when the kit becomes available. I'll go online, where all the people are nice, and the same product available for most likely less. But since I regularly spend my money there is reason enough for him to shrug his shoulders and say "Nice modeling job on the harpy".

Oh! Okay. You have spent a lot of money on the game already, thus it becomes less cheesy. I got it now. :-)

Thats almost the gist of it. Closer to the truth is I've spent enough on my regular army that my I don't care if my sideboard chars are cheesy. I've got painted raveners and Pyrovores.

When I go play, I bring it with me. Its a lot. Its two giant toolchests. If I had to have an extra fanny pack for my harpies, that would cross a line for me. This isn't to serve as ostentatious flash. Its to serve as my army stock whilst I get my game on for hours and hours. If I'm lucky. Any Tyranid army my opponent wants to play against, usually for fun, I'll most likely be able to field. You want to play a horde? Ok. Nidzilla? Fine.
Most of my games usually involve going to a gamestore and fielding the tyranid codex as far as I'm able. 4000 point game against 2 opponents? Hey, its a real life starcraft game. Awesome.

No one cares about what my harpies look like. I'm never trying to hide them Wily Coyote style behind some cartoonishly small tree to claim a cover save. We just play the game, and roll some dice.
Be a good person, and not a TFG, and no one will ever claim that you're him because of what your models look like.

Its the "I'm out of line of sight because I am behind a low wall" logic that i am not fine with... If your opponents are fine with it, then there are no problems. It actually says in the rulebook you can use anything you want as long as your opponent is fine with it...

The "I have a tyranid warrior in front of my Harpy, therefore it gets cover" logic annoys me. If your opponent is okay with it, then good for you. I, personally, will never be.

Dave_Nz wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Legal though it may be, it is the textbook definition of modeling for advantage. I can't call you out as a cheater for it, but it isn't something I'd do personally. (See pics above).

I agree. And Im not a fan of people that do that. They instantly become asshats in my book. Its like that IG player I heard about that made the barrels on his LRBT 18 inches long, because it didnt say he couldnt do that, and took them to a tournament. Seriously, how bad does one have to win?


Not to mention, a warrior with wings is a shrike. THATS in the codex. And Ive never seen a warrior count as a MC ever. I say a carnifex or trygon, period.

Well people that decide upon others instantly based on one fact makes them instantly a judgemental person.

I instantly decided that.

Sure, call me judgmental, still makes it true. How can one argue with that rational,when someone is modeling their army in an obviously cheating manner, JUST to win a game thats meant to be fun?

Doomthumbs wrote:I also assume anyone with a neckbeard to be undereducated/ a pedophile.

Chill on the personal attacks, next time I wont stop myself from reporting you for it






Automatically Appended Next Post:

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Its the "I'm out of line of sight because I am behind a low wall" logic that i am not fine with... If your opponents are fine with it, then there are no problems. It actually says in the rulebook you can use anything you want as long as your opponent is fine with it...

The "I have a tyranid warrior in front of my Harpy, therefore it gets cover" logic annoys me. If your opponent is okay with it, then good for you. I, personally, will never be.

That really goes for anything in this game though. The problem Im seeing here, is obviously a WYSIWYG problem. A tyranid warrior is not a MC, not by any stretch of the imagination. Like I said previously, a Carnifex, modded tyrant, trygon, whatever, those are all MC and therefore could make a harpy just fine

I only have one thing to add to this discussion at the moment - Some people play 40K like a game, others treat it like a sport. Competitive gamers seeking an edge wherever they can find one are in the 'sport' category to me. There's nothing wrong with it, I've been guilty of it myself a few times. However, the two 'groups' rarely mix well.

I agree with KingCracker 100%

Next time I play vs a tiny Harpy I am bringing out all my sliding hormagaunts and my winged ripper base Harpy too. And then doing silly stuff.

Actually... if you play it like a game, you don't care. If you play it like a sport... you do, but you would do it anyway.

I play it as both... but I still wouldn't model to my advantage. I would model it the way I believe it should look... and then try to use that to my advantage.

I have Mycetic spores based on flyer bases (basically the Trygon base)... i make it as close as i can to look like the spores from the DoW videos I have seen and/or the spore in the codex (minus the carnifex)

It doesn't get cover as easily... but I can use it to my advantage because I can GIVE cover, and even block LoS. And no one complains about my spores when i use them... If I were to bring something that small as a MC, all hell would break loose.

@wisdomeyes1 - Not everybody falls cut and dry into one category or the other, but i can tell you certainly see my point. Gamers who lean more towards the 'sporty' side might happen to model for advantage and usually gamers who lean towards the fluff/game side (but they still want to win games, who doesn't?) tend not to model for advantage.

All things considered this thread is getting more than a little OT - Harpies are generally considered weak unit choices, and even making them smaller so as to hide them from LOS or give cover saves against enemy weaponry usually isn't enough to keep them alive long enough to damage the opponent anyhow. In fact the only time i've delivered killing long-range shots with them is VS a DE army, which promptly shot them down the very next turn (an ID from a hex-rifle if i remember correctly. epic play!).

Edit - One time a harpy got ID'ed by a deff-rolla equipped Battlewagon. I laughed as i pulled the model from the table because i could imagine the ork driver honking his horn, the splat noise, and then him going "what was dat guys?!"

tetrisphreak wrote:@wisdomeyes1 - Not everybody falls cut and dry into one category or the other, but i can tell you certainly see my point. Gamers who lean more towards the 'sporty' side might happen to model for advantage and usually gamers who lean towards the fluff/game side (but they still want to win games, who doesn't?) tend not to model for advantage.

All things considered this thread is getting more than a little OT - Harpies are generally considered weak unit choices, and even making them smaller so as to hide them from LOS or give cover saves against enemy weaponry usually isn't enough to keep them alive long enough to damage the opponent anyhow. In fact the only time i've delivered killing long-range shots with them is VS a DE army, which promptly shot them down the very next turn (an ID from a hex-rifle if i remember correctly. epic play!).

Edit - One time a harpy got ID'ed by a deff-rolla equipped Battlewagon. I laughed as i pulled the model from the table because i could imagine the ork driver honking his horn, the splat noise, and then him going "what was dat guys?!"

In the NA tournement finalys harpys recieved more play then the following:

Pyrovore
Biovore
TYRANO-FEX
lictor
ravener - was the same
deathleaper
old one eye
warrior shrike

They arn't a usless unit, you just dont play it corectly.

@KingCracker

By the way, if it was cheating, im not sure if you have realized, GW would have produced an article on it stating that they must be "x height" what you have is purely just an opinion, and i feel sorry for you that you instantly jump to the conclusion that they have an obvious cheating mannor, you must be quite the impulsive character, and for that I feel sorry.

You never considered that some people dont have a tyrant, massive wings, a valkyre base, and other parts (from expensive models ) lieing around, and/or professional GS'ing capabilities.

Just as something to consider, on the "Monstrous Creatures should be size X" point (rather than the "Harpies are described as X" point):
My Tomb Spyder is the size of a Tyranid Warrior, and is a Monstrous Creature.

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Just as something to consider, on the "Monstrous Creatures should be size X" point (rather than the "Harpies are described as X" point):
My Tomb Spyder is the size of a Tyranid Warrior, and is a Monstrous Creature.

Even if it wasn't it would just poop out a scarib and get a 3+ cover save.

No one can complain (without actually just being a crybaby) about a unit that actually has a model...

Once the new Tyranid models wave comes out (if true) do you think the warrior sized harpy will still be okay with most opponents?

Dave_Nz wrote:
They arn't a usless unit, you just dont play it corectly.

Oh, really? So the fact that my group of friends consistently brings lascannons, autocannons, and missile launchers en masse to every game have nothing to do with the fact that my Harpies consistently die by turn 2 or 3? Sheesh, and all this time I was blaming my poor playing skill on THEM.

/sarcasm

Seriously man, I modeled the things for the love of their looks and fluff. Sadly it translates to zero cover saves on 95 percent of tables. Which further translates to a dead harpy...no matter HOW you play it.

Dave_Nz wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:@wisdomeyes1 - Not everybody falls cut and dry into one category or the other, but i can tell you certainly see my point. Gamers who lean more towards the 'sporty' side might happen to model for advantage and usually gamers who lean towards the fluff/game side (but they still want to win games, who doesn't?) tend not to model for advantage.

All things considered this thread is getting more than a little OT - Harpies are generally considered weak unit choices, and even making them smaller so as to hide them from LOS or give cover saves against enemy weaponry usually isn't enough to keep them alive long enough to damage the opponent anyhow. In fact the only time i've delivered killing long-range shots with them is VS a DE army, which promptly shot them down the very next turn (an ID from a hex-rifle if i remember correctly. epic play!).

Edit - One time a harpy got ID'ed by a deff-rolla equipped Battlewagon. I laughed as i pulled the model from the table because i could imagine the ork driver honking his horn, the splat noise, and then him going "what was dat guys?!"

In the NA tournement finalys harpys recieved more play then the following:

Pyrovore
Biovore
TYRANO-FEX
lictor
ravener - was the same
deathleaper
old one eye
warrior shrike

They arn't a usless unit, you just dont play it corectly.

@KingCracker

By the way, if it was cheating, im not sure if you have realized, GW would have produced an article on it stating that they must be "x height" what you have is purely just an opinion, and i feel sorry for you that you instantly jump to the conclusion that they have an obvious cheating mannor, you must be quite the impulsive character, and for that I feel sorry.

You never considered that some people dont have a tyrant, massive wings, a valkyre base, and other parts (from expensive models ) lieing around, and/or professional GS'ing capabilities.

For one, I'd like you to provide a link to those statistics, I'm quite interested in seeing it.

Two, Nearly everything you listed in that list is completely useless, even beyond the Harpy. I've never even seen someone field a Pyrovore or Old One Eye. That's a poor argument anyway. I don't see those players that use the Harpy winning the tournaments, or even getting into the top 4. Take a look at the Tyranid list that did so well at Adepticon, Did it include a Harpy? No. Did Hulksmashes List include a Harpy? No.

The fact of the matter is that the Harpy is far to expensive for it's uses. it's 170 points with the Heavy Venom Cannon, and has an extremely weak stat line. Even if you use it "Correctly" it is still not a competitive unit. You can find other things in the codex, for far cheaper, and they will be more effective than a Harpy.

You may be "Playing it Correctly" for the moment, because you are modeling to gain a cover advantage, I guarantee when GW releases a full size Harpy in the fashion that it describes in the codex, this won't be the case.

The end result is this: No matter how good you are, the end result is that you are handicapping a competitive list with a Harpy. It can be used in a fun game, or any regular matches, but It will be few and far between in true competitive lists. The meta is moving away from Tyranids using a lot of Monstrous creatures anyway, thanks to the latest two Armies effectively crippling that part of our codex.