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opps, ment harpies.

playing 1k against an average ork player for a campaign that some people have running, the does heavy foot sloging lists from what i can tell.

So i use harpys quite often in my lists as they are devastating anti-infantry, here are their stats.

they have a twin linked large blast S6 AP5 pinning ( i know pinning doens't really effect orks ).
they reduce their innitive by half when assualting, but im not planning on running into a fat lot of orks,
monsterous creature, W3 4+ AS
moves 12'
high leadership, WS but only BS3

Im 100% sure that i can win the game but i was just wondering about the thoughts you guys had about the use of the unit.

There is one unit that will ruin your harpies day that is very common to find in ork lists.
Lootas



the harpy is T5 with a 4+ save. As a flying MC, it should be hard to get it a cover save, but not impossible.

The loota shoots at S7 with AP4. This is enough that the Harpy will be wounded on a 2+ and then get no armor save.


On average it will take about 7-8 lootas shooting at a Harpy to drop it if there is no cover, double that to 15 if there is.


The loota is very common in ork lists as it is their best option for long range shooting, with many players including 10 or more in their lists.

svendrex has a good point there.
Lootas are a real problem that will have to be taken care of and quickly.

I run 3 harpies in friendly games, and about the only cover i can get for them is by using another harpy. (too big to hide anywhere)
So you might have to hold it back and get rid of them 1st.

I think I may have clicked on this just because of the name.

Seems like gargoyles could screen a harpy pretty well too, though.

Family Friendly, OK?

Thanks!

svendrex wrote:
The loota shoots at S7 with AP4. This is enough that the Harpy will be wounded on a 2+ and then get no armor save.

Don't forget D3 shots too, typically run in units of 5 or 15 so on average 10-30 shots. DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA

vikings vs mafia wrote:Seems like gargoyles could screen a harpy pretty well too, though.

You realize that the harpy is basically a tyrgon with wings...

Seems like gargoyles could screen a harpy pretty well too, though.

Take a look in my gallery (top rated image)
A gargoyle is nowhere near high enough.
I play on alot of cityfight boards, and even then i have issues getting cover.

Jackal wrote:

Seems like gargoyles could screen a harpy pretty well too, though.

Take a look in my gallery (top rated image)
A gargoyle is nowhere near high enough.
I play on alot of cityfight boards, and even then i have issues getting cover.

Yes i looked at it, and i must say, quite impressive. although here is the bad part:

I am a player who is purely focused on tournement play, and i try to obviously use everylittle thing to my advantage ( although im not one of those anoying players, im very good sportsmanship ) and iv actally made my harpies out of the warrior model and iv stuck gargoyle wings on it, then put it on a flying base, so it maybe comes to about 6' in height? this is in my opinion and others aswell, a fine model for a harpy as they dont have dedicated models, and you can get away with quite a few streches which can and will provide you cover save due to the size of your model, and btw your model is made out of a trygon and in all honesty and T4 W4 model maybe shouldn't be that big anyway, you could maybe use it for a harriden.

See the problem with your "warrior model with wings as Harpy" idea is that there is a unit that is a warrior with wings. Its called a warrior with wings biomorph. So if you went to a tournie with that, they might call you out on it, as it is more like a warrior with wings than a harpy. I personally think harpies should be much bigger than that (carnie model maybe?).

Dave_Nz... please don't tell me that people are stupid enough to actually buy that as a model that is actually usable???

if we look in the codex, we find that the Warriors with wings are called, "shirkes"

If we look in the description under the harpy, we find it wo be a trygon with wings.

If your local tournaments are actually accepting a warrior model with wings as a harpy... i am ashamed of the tournament officials...

I could see that being somewhat valid if you gave it a pair of Venom Cannons.

do you have the tyranid codex? read the Harpy page... you may beg to differ..

I do, I know, they're supposed to be big. Trygons are supposed to be bigger than they are, too. Space Marines are supposed to be like 9' tall, not the same height as a guardsman. Ork Trukks are supposed to be able to hold 12 Orks. Ghazkull is, what, 20' tall?
The scale doesn't always work here. You make due with what you can.
If it's just a warrior with wings, it'll look like a Shrike. If it has Venom Cannons, I could see arguing that it looks distinct enough to use it as a Harpy in the absence of an official model.

Yikes, your harpy is WAY to small. Youll be able to get cover like a mofo. In retrospect, thatd be like taking a hormaguant and saying this is my hive tyrant.


Im curious about the rest of this thread though, because my wife has shown interest in making her nids a gargoyle heavy build and probably would have harpies in it since they would mess well. Keep it going fellas

Harpies are one of the most overcosted, and useless units in the Nid codex, IMO.


It's T5, and has a 4+ save, making it the weakest MC, despite costing so much. Not to mention, the HVC is nearly a useless weapon. While it is strength 9, you are only BS 3, and will tend to Scatter a lot. They are useless against tanks, because of the -1 on the table, and most of the time the enemy will be in cover.

Chances are your Harpies are going to die very early. There are much better options to spend your points on, than it. For the price of a Harpy with a HVC, you could get 21 AD+Toxin Sac Gargoyles.

Personally, I've tried the Harpy several times, and it was never worth the points to me.

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I do, I know, they're supposed to be big. Trygons are supposed to be bigger than they are, too. Space Marines are supposed to be like 9' tall, not the same height as a guardsman. Ork Trukks are supposed to be able to hold 12 Orks. Ghazkull is, what, 20' tall?
The scale doesn't always work here. You make due with what you can.
If it's just a warrior with wings, it'll look like a Shrike. If it has Venom Cannons, I could see arguing that it looks distinct enough to use it as a Harpy in the absence of an official model.

The codex describes a harpy to a Trygon as a gargoyle is to a termagant. That gives me a pretty good idea that the Harpy is around the same size...

One can model it smaller. There is no actual model....so there is no rule against it. But if one uses a winged warrior... seriously? How dumb does someone have to be to accept it as a monstrous creature.

And yes, Shrikes actually can take venom cannons themselves...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:Harpies are one of the most overcosted, and useless units in the Nid codex, IMO.


It's T5, and has a 4+ save, making it the weakest MC, despite costing so much. Not to mention, the HVC is nearly a useless weapon. While it is strength 9, you are only BS 3, and will tend to Scatter a lot. They are useless against tanks, because of the -1 on the table, and most of the time the enemy will be in cover.

Chances are your Harpies are going to die very early. There are much better options to spend your points on, than it. For the price of a Harpy with a HVC, you could get 21 AD+Toxin Sac Gargoyles.

Personally, I've tried the Harpy several times, and it was never worth the points to me.

Where I agree that harpies are pretty meh, I would like to point out that the HVC is TL on the harpy, meaning their is a 75% chance of hitting on target at BS3 with a blast.

And, stopping a tank from shooting/moving is almost as good as killing it is many cases.

I have played someone who used a warrior sized harpy at a tourney.

Somewhat un-suprisingly that was the only time I have not seen one die on the first turn.

I think that using a warrior with gargoyle wings to represent a shrike is *just* barely acceptable (I'd rather see bigger wings, personally). Using one to represent a harpy is just silly. Use a carnifex, at the very least.

Actually, I thought it WAS a shrike, until I looked over the list.

I think as far as it went was me saying "Really?" and then we played.

/shrug

Editing to add:
Not that I am suggesting it is acceptable.
Just that without guidance (a model or an actual rule), people WILL do strange things and feel they are in right.

There is no ACTUAL way to say he was wrong, so I left it and played.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:And yes, Shrikes actually can take venom cannons themselves...

Not two of them.

A warrior sizes harpy?
While there is no official model, that does take the piss a fair bit.
Its just a shrike, or even a bit bigger, the parasite.
Considering its about the same size as a trygon, that should be enough to know a warrior is far too small (hence why i used a harpy)

Its pretty much just made for advantage if its a warrior, and would infact be the smallest MC in the game. (even tomb spiders would be larger)

It's T5, and has a 4+ save, making it the weakest MC, despite costing so much. Not to mention, the HVC is nearly a useless weapon. While it is strength 9, you are only BS 3, and will tend to Scatter a lot. They are useless against tanks, because of the -1 on the table, and most of the time the enemy will be in cover.

Its not by any means a competative model, but i play alot of friendly games aswell as tournament games.
So, rather than running a pretty basic nid list, ill run amusing units in friendly games simply so i get a chance to make them.

Also, why use heavy Vcannons on them?
Anti-tank isnt thier job, but considering they have a pie plate weapon as standard and can take stranglethorns, anti-infantry seems a better use for them.

While ive had alot of issues getting real use from them, they are pretty nice against hordes.
Also work well in multi-assaults against high initiative enemies.
Simply throw a harpy in and you will be striking 1st.
Doesent matter if the harpy only kills one model, it prevents the other unit causing any damage before it dies.

Jackal wrote:A warrior sizes harpy?
While there is no official model, that does take the piss a fair bit.
Its just a shrike, or even a bit bigger, the parasite.
Considering its about the same size as a trygon, that should be enough to know a warrior is far too small (hence why i used a harpy)

Its pretty much just made for advantage if its a warrior, and would infact be the smallest MC in the game. (even tomb spiders would be larger)

It's T5, and has a 4+ save, making it the weakest MC, despite costing so much. Not to mention, the HVC is nearly a useless weapon. While it is strength 9, you are only BS 3, and will tend to Scatter a lot. They are useless against tanks, because of the -1 on the table, and most of the time the enemy will be in cover.

Its not by any means a competative model, but i play alot of friendly games aswell as tournament games.
So, rather than running a pretty basic nid list, ill run amusing units in friendly games simply so i get a chance to make them.

Also, why use heavy Vcannons on them?
Anti-tank isnt thier job, but considering they have a pie plate weapon as standard and can take stranglethorns, anti-infantry seems a better use for them.

While ive had alot of issues getting real use from them, they are pretty nice against hordes.
Also work well in multi-assaults against high initiative enemies.
Simply throw a harpy in and you will be striking 1st.
Doesent matter if the harpy only kills one model, it prevents the other unit causing any damage before it dies.

I agree with you for the most part, it's really not a Competitive unit, and could be used in friendly games. However I have to disagree about the killing one model part. I think that if it gets killed in a melee, and only kills one model, than it is a colossal waste of points, unless that model was Mephiston, or something.

I think that using a warrior with gargoyle wings to represent a shrike is *just* barely acceptable (I'd rather see bigger wings, personally). Using one to represent a harpy is just silly. Use a carnifex, at the very least.

As far as the wings, It's been a while since I've read through the BRB, but I remember something about how you don't measure, or count the wings for anything like LOS, or Cover. So in the Aspect of a Warrior Using Gargoyle wings, I don't see a problem. As for the Harpy being represented as a Warrior, that just seems like flat out cheating to me. Not that it matters, that problem should be solved soon if the Wave 2 Tyranid rumors are true.

I agree with you for the most part, it's really not a Competitive unit, and could be used in friendly games. However I have to disagree about the killing one model part. I think that if it gets killed in a melee, and only kills one model, than it is a colossal waste of points, unless that model was Mephiston, or something.

Look at it in another light mate.
You have 15 daemonettes assault a unit of, lets say warriors.
They will be going 1st due to high initiative.
Mass rending attacks will more than likely wipe out a unit of warriors. (6 or so)

However, get a multi-assault going and you will be striking 1st, so you cut down losses on your side by a big margin.

I'de agree that the Harpy model 'should' be larger than warrior size. I know models in 40k aren't necessarily to scale, but monstrous creatures should (generally) be larger than normal sized infantry from the same codex.

Although I believe that at T5 with 4 wounds, a Harpy is hardly as bulky as a Trygon. Personally, I would accept any model that is half way between a warrior and Trygon in size, and resembles a Trygon with wings in shape (I'm not sure if they intended the fluff to mean the Harpy resembles a Trygon in shape, rather then in size and shape... it certainly seems to indicate size and shape, but if it's supposed to be as big and bulky as a Trygon they should have made it T6 IMHO).

Another point not to forget, is that being a MC it still strikes vehicles with 2d6 - making it potentially a 'Landraider flipping' creature. hard to see a warrior sized model doing this at all (It might pull off an antenna or poorly fastened storm bolter?).

As far as playing them - it's almost as if GW forgot about the rules for cover in assault with the Nids codex, and then gave cover busting abilities to every underpowered unit in the army (Fex, Harpy, Lictor, Pyrovore). I thought the spore mine ability on the Harpy was a bit silly, as if your harpy will ever get close enough, and then survive to use it next turn. Would have been better to work it like Swooping hawks grenade packs, at least then you would get a turn of shooting in as well before your opponent kills him...

Flying Circus armies can be fun (and deadly), but I just don't see the Harpy featuring in anything other than friendly games atm.

As far as the wings, It's been a while since I've read through the BRB, but I remember something about how you don't measure, or count the wings for anything like LOS, or Cover. So in the Aspect of a Warrior Using Gargoyle wings, I don't see a problem. As for the Harpy being represented as a Warrior, that just seems like flat out cheating to me. Not that it matters, that problem should be solved soon if the Wave 2 Tyranid rumors are true.

You don't count wings as part of the model for determining if you can see it. You do however, get cover for models being behind the wings.

In otherwords... a shirke with wings the size of my head hiden behind a landraider can't be seen, but does give cover to the land raid. Yet another reason why appropriate modeling is important...

Might i add the following,

My harpy model is on an extended flying base, about 1.5 times the normal one, the warrior legs have been replaced with bigger ones, the gargoyle wings are the biggest out of the box.

tl/dr
the model isn't warrior size.

Dave_Nz wrote:Might i add the following,

My harpy model is on an extended flying base, about 1.5 times the normal one, the warrior legs have been replaced with bigger ones, the gargoyle wings are the biggest out of the box.

tl/dr
the model isn't warrior size.

Doesn't sound Like it's close to Trygon Size, Either.

Yeah, definitely sounds almost big enough to be the Parasite. I've gone for bigger-than-gargoyle-wings on my Shrikes, bigger still on my Parasite, and much, much bigger on my Harpies, personally.