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Totally signed the petition....

Some of the highlights so far from my reading. For added value I shall write them in "Wardspeak".

"We'll hide the moon Titan in the warp from the gods of the warp because Malcador is a more powerful psyker than Tzeentch so he won't find it and then the GKs have an invisible psy-moon because they are awesome".
"Nobody can know of the GK's at all, even other marines, so everybody ever gets their memories wiped after meeting them (and Marine chapters totally agree to this because they love the GKs even though they don't know about them)"
"To help make ourselves immune to daemonic power (even though we already are anyway according to this very same book) we will murder many sisters of battle and bathe in their blood because that is really pure and then Khorne daemons can't touch us because they hate the blood"
"Grand Master Drago is so hard he wrestles Mortarion (yes, the daemon PRIMARCH) to the floor and carves his name into him to mark him as his bitch, and then Mortarion has to run away"
"GK's are so hard Thawn gets eaten by a Great Unclean One then kills his way out from the inside, and Thawn actually can't die like ever because FATE"
"Drago now lies in the warp and has killed thousands of daemons and greater daemons on his own and is totally invulnerable to the chaos gods who can't stop him and he has even destroyed Tzeentchs whole castle once and Slaaneshs realm lolz"
"Brotherhood champions are so psychic when they die their armour brings them back to life just long enough to kill their killer, and because they are dead it's unstoppable so they can kill like any bad guy at all!"
"Paladins are so awesome that to be one you have to kill 4 daemon heralds and their other daemons unarmed and armoured, then kill one of the biggest greater daemons ever alone, which they can do because only pussies need armour"
"All GKS are totally 100% pure because of the emperor, but Purifiers are more pure, and Crowe is MORE more pure. So he's like, 200% pure, which is awesome"


There's a lot more, that's just the immediate things....
F*CKING RAAAAAGE.

And half of what you just posted isn't that bad when you actually read the codex.

The other half though...

Harrower wrote:Totally signed the petition....

Some of the highlights so far from my reading. For added value I shall write them in "Wardspeak".

"We'll hide the moon Titan in the warp from the gods of the warp because Malcador is a more powerful psyker than Tzeentch so he won't find it and then the GKs have an invisible psy-moon because they are awesome".
"Nobody can know of the GK's at all, even other marines, so everybody ever gets their memories wiped after meeting them (and Marine chapters totally agree to this because they love the GKs even though they don't know about them)"
"To help make ourselves immune to daemonic power (even though we already are anyway according to this very same book) we will murder many sisters of battle and bathe in their blood because that is really pure and then Khorne daemons can't touch us because they hate the blood"
"Grand Master Drago is so hard he wrestles Mortarion (yes, the daemon PRIMARCH) to the floor and carves his name into him to mark him as his bitch, and then Mortarion has to run away"
"GK's are so hard Thawn gets eaten by a Great Unclean One then kills his way out from the inside, and Thawn actually can't die like ever because FATE"
"Drago now lies in the warp and has killed thousands of daemons and greater daemons on his own and is totally invulnerable to the chaos gods who can't stop him and he has even destroyed Tzeentchs whole castle once and Slaaneshs realm lolz"
"Brotherhood champions are so psychic when they die their armour brings them back to life just long enough to kill their killer, and because they are dead it's unstoppable so they can kill like any bad guy at all!"
"Paladins are so awesome that to be one you have to kill 4 daemon heralds and their other daemons unarmed and armoured, then kill one of the biggest greater daemons ever alone, which they can do because only pussies need armour"
"All GKS are totally 100% pure because of the emperor, but Purifiers are more pure, and Crowe is MORE more pure. So he's like, 200% pure, which is awesome"


There's a lot more, that's just the immediate things....
F*CKING RAAAAAGE.

90% of this is exaggeration. Re-read the codex without your nerd-rage glasses on and it comes across exactly as most fluff should: fantastical, slightly over the top, but *cool*.

L. Wrex

The purifier part is actually correct.... They are somehow more pure.... Than pure?
Drago yeah thats correct.
Thawn just is a justicar which i am fine with.
That lore sounds exaggerated.

Harrower wrote:Totally signed the petition....

Some of the highlights so far from my reading. For added value I shall write them in "Wardspeak".

"We'll hide the moon Titan in the warp from the gods of the warp because Malcador is a more powerful psyker than Tzeentch so he won't find it and then the GKs have an invisible psy-moon because they are awesome".
"Nobody can know of the GK's at all, even other marines, so everybody ever gets their memories wiped after meeting them (and Marine chapters totally agree to this because they love the GKs even though they don't know about them)"
"To help make ourselves immune to daemonic power (even though we already are anyway according to this very same book) we will murder many sisters of battle and bathe in their blood because that is really pure and then Khorne daemons can't touch us because they hate the blood"
"Grand Master Drago is so hard he wrestles Mortarion (yes, the daemon PRIMARCH) to the floor and carves his name into him to mark him as his bitch, and then Mortarion has to run away"
"GK's are so hard Thawn gets eaten by a Great Unclean One then kills his way out from the inside, and Thawn actually can't die like ever because FATE"
"Drago now lies in the warp and has killed thousands of daemons and greater daemons on his own and is totally invulnerable to the chaos gods who can't stop him and he has even destroyed Tzeentchs whole castle once and Slaaneshs realm lolz"
"Brotherhood champions are so psychic when they die their armour brings them back to life just long enough to kill their killer, and because they are dead it's unstoppable so they can kill like any bad guy at all!"
"Paladins are so awesome that to be one you have to kill 4 daemon heralds and their other daemons unarmed and armoured, then kill one of the biggest greater daemons ever alone, which they can do because only pussies need armour"
"All GKS are totally 100% pure because of the emperor, but Purifiers are more pure, and Crowe is MORE more pure. So he's like, 200% pure, which is awesome"


There's a lot more, that's just the immediate things....
F*CKING RAAAAAGE.

You left out how Drago has been lost in the warp since he was much, much lower in rank, and has been lost so long that none of the other Grey Knights recognize him, but while he was gone he's been promoted to Grand Master, without them even knowing he was still alive, and had more or less presumed him dead. How the feth does THAT work?

While I grant Tzeench is not omniscient, one would HOPE that he would look to see what was going on in an area the size of a star system he was having the majority of his forces invade and notice an oddity like, say, An entire moon appearing out of no where in the warp. Frankly, if Malcador could cloak a planetary object from the ruinous powers, why didn't he do that to Terra instead? I think that it would have gone a long way toward helping out when the Traitor Legions showed up.

Oh, and, what exactly is the point of keeping the Grey Knights so secret that you conduct Exterminatus on planets to conceal their existence? And if it's policy to mind wipe and/or kill anyone who's met or even seen a Grey Knight, why do the Ultramarines still exist? It's not liek the Ruinous Powers are not aware of their existence when they do things like Blow up Tzeench's place or burn the Gardens of Nurgle to the Ground.

Alot of chapters have met the grey knights and have conducted research with them and killed with them. Hell there is a ton of fluff surrounding Grey Knights teaming up with Astrates to kill a Daemon Incrusion because sometimes their are chaos space marines there in huge numbers and the grey knights need some astrates to help.
They come and fight together.

The Grey Knights aren't really secretive as they helped out the Space Wolves in the first War of Armaggeddon. Then the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Storm Crusaders, Wanderers, and etc. Yeah every old space marine chapter have met the grey knights. And know of them but only say that they are a brother chapter.

Before this matt ward incidient I considered the Grey Knights, just chivalry knights. They may have mind wipes, but they don't always use them. Example Space Wolves and a ton of other chapters. Blood Ravens even know they exist...

I can say though, Matt Ward is worse than C.S. Goto.
Goto is better than this guy....

...I really wish Dakka had an "orkmoticon" of an Ork beating it's head against a wall...

....It's really simple guys....GW is not the same company it was 10 or 15 years ago...for the most part they don't care about "fluff inconsistancy" ...what they care about is getting people to open their wallets and pony up for the latest shiny new toys....that's it...period.

FITZZ wrote: ...I really wish Dakka had an "orkmoticon" of an Ork beating it's head against a wall...

....It's really simple guys....GW is not the same company it was 10 or 15 years ago...for the most part they don't care about "fluff inconsistancy" ...what they care about is getting people to open their wallets and pony up for the latest shiny new toys....that's it...period.

Hey I got the perfect ork one! ================>

FITZZ wrote: ...I really wish Dakka had an "orkmoticon" of an Ork beating it's head against a wall...

....It's really simple guys....GW is not the same company it was 10 or 15 years ago...for the most part they don't care about "fluff inconsistancy" ...what they care about is getting people to open their wallets and pony up for the latest shiny new toys....that's it...period.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!@!@!@!@!!!!!1111111ONE!!

WE just got Killrazied!

Kilkrazy wrote:

FITZZ wrote: ...I really wish Dakka had an "orkmoticon" of an Ork beating it's head against a wall...

....It's really simple guys....GW is not the same company it was 10 or 15 years ago...for the most part they don't care about "fluff inconsistancy" ...what they care about is getting people to open their wallets and pony up for the latest shiny new toys....that's it...period.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!@!@!@!@!!!!!1111111ONE!!

...Not really trying to debate how GW does business...(though I think it's found wanting),just saying that ,by and large.people can rant and rave until their heads explode...and sign petitions from now until doomsday...but at the GW home offices...the phone is off the hook.

The GK main base should be on the moon Titania, not Titan.

LOL the best response I've heard so far was over in the BFG boards: The Grey Knights are now the 'Most Heretical Chapter'.

I read this....
http://www.totalwargamer.co.uk/blog/?p=1123
And I have to say this guy hit the nail on the head with the lore. Custodes it is gentlemen!

Platuan4th wrote:I think people are forgetting what the word fluff means in this context:

No, that is not what "fluff" means in this context.

Without the fluff 40k is nothing.

Melissia wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:I think people are forgetting what the word fluff means in this context:

No, that is not what "fluff" means in this context.

Without the fluff 40k is nothing.

agreed.

Asherian Command wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:I think people are forgetting what the word fluff means in this context:

No, that is not what "fluff" means in this context.

Without the fluff 40k is nothing.

agreed.

Agreed.

You know what I hope? Short of him being fired, Matt Ward writing the Chaos Space Marine Codex. His job is to make the army sound badass enough so they can sell lots of them..... What is he going to do for Chaos now that Mortarion has had a named carved into his CHEST!

lol

I kinda like that the GK used alien tech Cause it seems reasonable.

Really didn't like the whole carving his name on mortarions heart thing.

As for the rest I thought it was not the worst and like all the rest of the dexs simply made out that the subject of this dex is the best ever and can pwn anyone.(exept maybe guard who admit that guardsmen suck)

And also I really don't get the whole Draigo being in the warp thing(I really like his name tho =])

You know, after reading Draigo's fluff he seems like a super badass....

But last night two squads of Helio's XV8's + a Aurora'El commander shot at him and his paladins.... killed 4... leadership... and then escorted him off the table.

So like... if Draigo can carve his name into Morties chest... and my little Shas'El can make Draigo run away...

GOOD FOR THE GREATER GOOD PHILOSOPHERS

Melissia wrote:Without the fluff 40k is nothing.

Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.

The reason that GW hates it when you refer to it as fluff is because they want you to believe that it isn't anything other than fluff to make their game seem deeper or more interesting, but that's really all the story is. Yes, the story is interesting, but it isn't required for the GAME.

Platuan4th wrote:

Melissia wrote:Without the fluff 40k is nothing.

Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.

The reason that GW hates it when you refer to it as fluff is because they want you to believe that it isn't anything other than fluff to make their game seem deeper or more interesting, but that's really all the story is. Yes, the story is interesting, but it isn't required for the GAME.

Actually Melissia has it right alot of people would quit 40k. Because without the fluff 40k isn't 40k its just a stupid wargame with no plot and just two forces killing each other.

Asherian Command wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Melissia wrote:Without the fluff 40k is nothing.

Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.

The reason that GW hates it when you refer to it as fluff is because they want you to believe that it isn't anything other than fluff to make their game seem deeper or more interesting, but that's really all the story is. Yes, the story is interesting, but it isn't required for the GAME.

Actually Melissia has it right alot of people would quit 40k. Because without the fluff 40k isn't 40k its just a stupid wargame with no plot and just two forces killing each other.

So's Risk, what's your point? Games don't require story to be played, interesting, or popular.

Hell, the reason a lot of players outside the internet don't get the Blood Angels/Necrons jokes is because fewer people than you think actually read the books past the rules.

The one other thing I really hate is the part where the grey knights mind wipe/kill everyone who sees them
Its like

Daemon Incursion...

Planetary defense is getting owned...

suddenly grey knights show up and totally own daemons...(carving names on primarchs hearts and so on.)

imperial guard commander is like
"Thank you so much for saving our planet!!!"

Grey knight grand master replies
"Problem is you saw us so now you all have to die"

exterminatus planet and the next couple planets too for good measure.



The emperor created the GK to save the people of the empire but i feel like they kill more of the people
they are trying to save than the daemons.

Humbaba wrote:The one other thing I really hate is the part where the grey knights mind wipe/kill everyone who sees them

That's nothing new, actually. That was mentioned in the last book and the Index Astartes article prior to that.

Hell, there's a whole Apoc Formation about it, too.

Even in 2nd ed, the Ordo Malleus killed all IG and civilians who have contact with Daemons and try to mindwipe all Marines that contact them, too. They not only don't want the infection spreading, they don't even want WORD of Daemons existing spreading.

Platuan4th wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Melissia wrote:Without the fluff 40k is nothing.

Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.

The reason that GW hates it when you refer to it as fluff is because they want you to believe that it isn't anything other than fluff to make their game seem deeper or more interesting, but that's really all the story is. Yes, the story is interesting, but it isn't required for the GAME.

Actually Melissia has it right alot of people would quit 40k. Because without the fluff 40k isn't 40k its just a stupid wargame with no plot and just two forces killing each other.

So's Risk, what's your point? Games don't require story to be played, interesting, or popular.

Hell, the reason a lot of players outside the internet don't get the Blood Angels/Necrons jokes is because fewer people than you think actually read the books past the rules.

Actually risk does have a story line. It is based on the Revoultion.

Asherian Command wrote:
Actually risk does have a story line. It is based on the Revoultion.

How is a game about world domination based on the Revolution? Also where is this supposed story? It's not on the box or in the book or on the official website(I own 3 different versions of the basic version, BTW, none of which mention this).

The game was originally named La Conquete du Monde(Conquest of the World), BTW. No mention of the Revolution there.

From the official site:

"About 50 years ago, an award winning French film maker Albert Lamorisse created a revolutionary game he called: La Conquete du Monde - loosely translated. "Conquest of the World." Two years later, in 1959, Parker Brothers published the game we all came to know and love as RISK.

RISK was absolutely unique because it introduced groundbreaking game concepts. It was the first board game to offer non-linear movement - that was crazy thinking back then. Although the rules were simple enough, the strategies required to win the game were not. RISK pushed the envelope and remained unmatched by any other game on the shelf; quickly becoming a phenomenon with millions of copies sold throughout the world. "

Ya IK but I still don't like it. Knowledge is power right, so people should be told about the threat of daemons.
That way, if they know what daemons to to their "followers" they might not try to create chaos cults
and therefor wont summon daemons who end up killing them anyway.

also I think it would be ridiculously hard to keep the knowledge of a galaxy spanning organization
from leaking. and really what diff would it make. I am pretty sure daemons already know about GKs.

Asherian Command wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Melissia wrote:Without the fluff 40k is nothing.

Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.

The reason that GW hates it when you refer to it as fluff is because they want you to believe that it isn't anything other than fluff to make their game seem deeper or more interesting, but that's really all the story is. Yes, the story is interesting, but it isn't required for the GAME.

Actually Melissia has it right alot of people would quit 40k. Because without the fluff 40k isn't 40k its just a stupid wargame with no plot and just two forces killing each other.

Most people who start 40K quit anyway. GW's business model is to churn teen boys.

Out of veterans, some of them love the fluff, some of them ignore the fluff, and some of them find the fluff mildly amusing.

I have never read the fluff yet but by what i have heard so far..... i dont think i should.

Humbaba wrote:Ya IK but I still don't like it. Knowledge is power right, so people should be told about the threat of daemons.
That way, if they know what daemons to to their "followers" they might not try to create chaos cults
and therefor wont summon daemons who end up killing them anyway.

also I think it would be ridiculously hard to keep the knowledge of a galaxy spanning organization
from leaking. and really what diff would it make. I am pretty sure daemons already know about GKs.

I must say I had imagined that the whole IoM from pre-school to pensioners' home was on constant lookout for incursions of Chaos, it being their no.1 enemy, the most important event in history, etc. I'm quite surprised that the GK have managed to suppress all knowledge of it. They must have worked very hard because each one of them has to cover 1,000 planets.