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H.B.M.C. wrote:I do like how CT Gamer is implying that FW is for those who don't have the skill to do it themselves.

Talk about elitism...

I don't really think of it as elitism.

I'm not anywhere near talented enough to build the stuff out of plasticard. I know that.

Just like some people would rather pay to get an army painted by a professional, some of us would rather not develop the skills to scratchbuild the stuff.

Plus apparently some of us can hold onto our wallets long enough to save up for shiny things, rather than splurge every few weeks on whole armies.

Because God forbid that anyone actually *gasp* like a FW model! No, no, no. We simply must be buying them because we cannot do it ourselves.

Careful HB.
That was almost a defense of a GW subsidiary!

*One of us...one of us...one of us...*

H.B.M.C. wrote:I do like how CT Gamer is implying that FW is for those who don't have the skill to do it themselves.

Talk about elitism...

And I do like how you are always looking to be offended. It never gets old. Really...


I said no such thing, so quit trying to make everything into a pissing contest.

I buy FW stuff. I buy lots of stuff from places like Maxmini, etc., etc.

Why?

Because either i can't make the item myself or the time and money it would take me to do it are such that I would rather just pay to get a particular item. It comes down to what your own time is worth, what your own skills and resources are, etc.

So as I stated: the worth of something is dependent on how badly I want it, and if I can build or acquire it someplace else for cheaper.

There is a reason that the side companies that are producing various bits and kits that work with GW models are so successful: because not everyone has the skill, time or desire to make said items for themselves.

The items I want but can't make myself I am willing to pay more for then things I can/want to make myself. Try to follow along...

While my wallet still cringes at the memory, and I will never tell me wife the full cost I do not regret my Elysian Drop Army. I had no problems with the infantry out side of a few lasguns which just needed a hot bath, and a few of the shoulder pads were thin. The vultures had some huge vent pieces to cut off, but nothing wrong with the model itself.

I don't think FW is "worth it". Product wise you do not get what you pay for. Atheistically you do IMO. So it is kinda a toss up. I personally will continue to buy FW when I have the money for it.

Start with a resin/plastic kit, if you go all out with a huge all resin model without any prior resin modeling experience, you may find yourself wasting quite a bit of cash.

Salted Diamond wrote:

Product wise you do not get what you pay for. Atheistically you do IMO. So it is kinda a toss up.

Which pretty much sums up all of GW based wargaming. We pay extravagant sums of money for relatively tiny amounts of plastic, etc.

But we do it because we have decided that it is "worth it" despite knowing we are overpaying.

Again it comes down to if what you are getting satisfies whatever itch you are trying to scratch. Hobbies are usually not exercises in wise and economical spending, but that is half the fun...

The Night Stalker wrote:Start with a resin/plastic kit, if you go all out with a huge all resin model without any prior resin modeling experience, you may find yourself wasting quite a bit of cash.

QFT. I think this is where a lot of people go wrong. They get FW thinking it will be just like a GW model. They don't read the tutorial's or do any research. When they can't get it right, they declare it them worthless and a waste of money.

Salted Diamond wrote:

The Night Stalker wrote:Start with a resin/plastic kit, if you go all out with a huge all resin model without any prior resin modeling experience, you may find yourself wasting quite a bit of cash.

QFT. I think this is where a lot of people go wrong. They get FW thinking it will be just like a GW model. They don't read the tutorial's or do any research. When they can't get it right, they declare it them worthless and a waste of money.

Or trade it in.)

I think I traded for over 2k in FW models last year at my shop.

You should read some tutorials on how to work with resin before you begin, but the two biggest things are :
A) Wash the model and parts in warm water with dishsoap, scrubbing lightly, with an old toothbrush or so.
B) When filing, WEAR A DUST MASK!! Also, it will be beneficial to keep a dish of water near by (catches floating particles) or to have a vacuum cleaner handy. Just make sure that you don't vacuum up any bits.
Resin dust can be somewhat dangerous to your health, so exercise caution.

Alternatively: you can wet down both the part you're filing/sawing and the file/saw itself and it causes the dust to essentially 'stick' making it easier to clean/dispose of.

Still: should wear a mask when doing that.

Delephont wrote:It's getting harder and harder to make a judgement call on things like this these days...the price of the hobby is raising everyday it seems....I mean, 8 years ago you would faint to imagine spending £10 on a single miniature...

But you have to take monetary inflation into account.

Simple answer: No.

FW is over-priced and quality control is 0% to non-existant.

CT GAMER wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I do like how CT Gamer is implying that FW is for those who don't have the skill to do it themselves.

Talk about elitism...

I buy FW stuff. I buy lots of stuff from places like Maxmini, etc., etc.

Why?

Because either i can't make the item myself or the time and money it would take me to do it are such that I would rather just pay to get a particular item. It comes down to what your own time is worth, what your own skills and resources are, etc.

So as I stated: the worth of something is dependent on how badly I want it, and if I can build or acquire it someplace else for cheaper.

There is a reason that the side companies that are producing various bits and kits that work with GW models are so successful: because not everyone has the skill, time or desire to make said items for themselves.

The items I want but can't make myself I am willing to pay more for then things I can/want to make myself. Try to follow along...

I think what H.B.M.C is saying, is that sometimes it has nothing to do with your own skils, you may just like something that has been made by them. Of course, if you have the resources to copy every design you see, point for point, then sure, go ahead.....I guess you will save some money. However, I guess, in the main, people could only hope to make an approximation of the original design.....so unless you're willing to settle for a derivative version of a FW iteml, buying it is really your only option.

On a semi related question was considering for the fututre their resin doors for SM vehicles, whats the problems they've had with those as tbh never thought FW worth the price tag. Pity nowadays IA books at stupid money a pop seem to be the way players are considering the norm :(

Delephont wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I do like how CT Gamer is implying that FW is for those who don't have the skill to do it themselves.

Talk about elitism...

I buy FW stuff. I buy lots of stuff from places like Maxmini, etc., etc.

Why?

Because either i can't make the item myself or the time and money it would take me to do it are such that I would rather just pay to get a particular item. It comes down to what your own time is worth, what your own skills and resources are, etc.

So as I stated: the worth of something is dependent on how badly I want it, and if I can build or acquire it someplace else for cheaper.

There is a reason that the side companies that are producing various bits and kits that work with GW models are so successful: because not everyone has the skill, time or desire to make said items for themselves.

The items I want but can't make myself I am willing to pay more for then things I can/want to make myself. Try to follow along...

I think what H.B.M.C is saying, is that sometimes it has nothing to do with your own skils, you may just like something that has been made by them. Of course, if you have the resources to copy every design you see, point for point, then sure, go ahead.....I guess you will save some money. However, I guess, in the main, people could only hope to make an approximation of the original design.....so unless you're willing to settle for a derivative version of a FW iteml, buying it is really your only option.

I think we all know what HBMC was trying to say and do...

He honed in on one thing I said and tried to twist it as he had nothing constructive to add to the conversation. par for the course.


I listed a number of reasons why people buy things that others might find over-priced or "not worth it". Lack of ability to make it was but one of them.

And as I stated in response to Salted Diamond hobby spending is usually not based upon something being "worth it". We buy hobby stuff because we love/enjoy it so much that we are willing to pay large sums of money for it. Someone who is hardcore into GW/40K is going to be willing to spend more for a FW item then the casual player, and someone who plays a different game might see FW as a total rip-off, etc.

As gamers we all know we are paying crazy prices for many of the items we buy, but it is our chosen hobby so we rationalize/accept that it is necessary and "worth it".

@ CT GAMER

I'm not taking sides or anything just trying to see it from the other point of view.

If you and HBMC are having a turf war, I'll happily leave you to it.

Delephont wrote:@ CT GAMER

I'm not taking sides or anything just trying to see it from the other point of view.

If you and HBMC are having a turf war, I'll happily leave you to it.

No worries. This conversationis about pricing, what we are willing to spend for our hobbies, and the price/quality of FW within that context.

There is really nothing in this conversation to take offense over nor was I attacking anyone (since I was in effect describing myself as well).

But some people insist on bringing drama to any thread they involve themselves in sadly...

I will voluntarily leave this thread now so people an continue to discuss things without a certain individual running it into the ground as usual...

Good luck.

Wow, a lot of good views being shared here... Interesting... Anyways, some of you asked what I was looking at specifically over at FW, and that would be Death Korps of Krieg. Also, what is so dangerous about resin dust? Isn't it the same as normal dust?

tehbarry wrote:Wow, a lot of good views being shared here... Interesting... Anyways, some of you asked what I was looking at specifically over at FW, and that would be Death Korps of Krieg. Also, what is so dangerous about resin dust? Isn't it the same as normal dust?

Resin dust is a carcinogen. If you breath it in, it increases the chances you'll get lung cancer. Also, I've bought a whole tonne of krieg, they're the best casted models on forgeworld (and I believe they're the most popular). Every single cast I've had with them there have been no problems (going as far as hardly any mould lines or flash either).

Then again, with my elysians, I've had a case of nasty mould line over the faces... Also for Krieg infantry, do NOT use clippers to remove them from the spacer. In fact don't use clippers on them at all, the force the clippers generate will cause parts of the model to snap (such as the feet snapping off the legs). Use a knife to cut them, otherwise you'll need to fill the gaps with medium to hide the gaps. Especially important with the lasguns and bayonets, they will cause a nasty hole inside the tip of the lasgun which is impossible to fix aside from resculpting it yourself. Use a knife, save yourself a lot of hassle.

But would a knife be able to cut through resin? I don't really know that much about its properties... Wow, I didn't expect something like lung cancer to be a consequence of inhaling some resin dust by accident! O.o I'll definitely invest in some dust mask or something, thanks for the warning.

A good sharp knife can cut through resin quite easily, it's slightly softer than plastic. Something like an X-Acto or craft knife (even GW's knife works quite well) will be fine.

Larger more solid pieces of resin (such as in the resin vehicles) are more solid and will require a razor saw of some sort to cut reliably, I'd recommend in investing in one if you plan on getting a vehicle from forgeworld, their vehicle casting is far inferior to their infantry casting. They will often be of varying sizes (trust me, i've bought two armageddon basilisks and both had different interior sizes which caused me a massive headache).

I would recommend that you buy a conversion kit (the Leman Russ turrets are perfect for this) to experiment with resin. The turrets for the leman russes are really easy to put together, require basic cleanup (removing a few vents and some flash), you can't go wrong. Do this before getting the infantry which are incredibly fiddly compared to plastic, and when you apply too much pressure and break it by accident you'll be kicking yourself (this happened to me!).

Yeah I would love to do that but I'm kinda on a budget, since I only have 2630 kroner (danish currency, that would be 509.56 us dollars) to begin what I hope shall one day be a huge DKoK army. I really appreciate the advice on the resin though, so yeah thanks a million! Oh yeah, do you have nay pics or something of your death korps of krieg? I would be really interested in seeing some of them.

Unfortunately, I'm working on my Elysians right now, so I've put the Death Korps on the backburner right now, but DoubleT and Regnak have some pretty nice DKoK blogs you might want to check out.

I'm with the majority - if you value your hobby that much, cash in! If you can't afford it one way or the other, I wouldn't recommend it.

If you're keen on the modelling and painting aspects then its an excellent resource. If you are more of a gamer, you can still expect compliments because most of the models are kickarse and unique-looking. Dedicated converters get the same sort of response I guess!

In a recent game before deployment I was admiringly looking at my opponent's Lugft Huron model - I turned to see him regarding my converted Chariot of Khorne in the same fashion!

Don't worry, it's only sexually deviant if your bases touch.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:
In a recent game before deployment I was admiringly looking at my opponent's Lugft Huron model - I turned to see him regarding my converted Chariot of Khorne in the same fashion!

Don't worry, it's only sexually deviant if your bases touch.

Must...resist...urge...to...put..in...sig...(may I put it in my sig?)

I keep getting tempted by forge world bits.


The dust issue puts me off though. I bought a heirodule from ebay. Had to repair it and filed it down a bit, didnt even realise there was a dust issue when I did it.

Glad I didnt have to do much work and I only spent maybe 10-20 mins doing it and with my head well away (I dislike breathing in dust generally if can help it)

SIG IT!

As a side note, the DKOK models are some of the best made by forgeworld. If you can afford them, and you have a legitimate desire to see the project to the finish, that's great. Make sure you do their bases justice. Here, lemme find a good tutorial here on dakka....

EDIT: here it is, someone else's DKOK's basing scheme, of muddy battlefields with some of the best barbed wire I've ever seen.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/314348.page

Worth it? It depends. Nice sculpts, iffy casting quality that ranges from "wow" to " "

Me, I am an on and off Elysian player and collector, so I'm screwed so to say. Personally I try to avoid FW as much as possible and I'm really, really happy that the Valkyrie is a plastic kit these days, otherwise I'd be in resin hell now.

micahaphone wrote:SIG IT!

As a side note, the DKOK models are some of the best made by forgeworld. If you can afford them, and you have a legitimate desire to see the project to the finish, that's great. Make sure you do their bases justice. Here, lemme find a good tutorial here on dakka....

EDIT: here it is, someone else's DKOK's basing scheme, of muddy battlefields with some of the best barbed wire I've ever seen.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/314348.page

Thanks for the tutorial, but I was thinking more of a nuclear winter, since I read a bit of imperial armour 5. It just made me think of trench fighting on snow covered no mans land...