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@WBE

Started to type a response in depth but I couldn't do it without sounding rude. I'll just stick with you have zero understanding of the codex or game balance as it currently stands. I'm hoping your trolling.....

Whirling Blade Exarch wrote:
honestly, a 2+ invulnerable save should cost at least 60 points, and even then it should only be available to one model per army.

Without pointing out the minor errors in the rest of the post. That 2+ invulnerable? Only applies in CC.

Whirling Blade Exarch wrote:
honestly, a 2+ invulnerable save should cost at least 60 points, and even then it should only be available to one model per army.

It's limited to one per unit, it only works in close combat, and it's already expensive enough as it is. Stop overexaggerating and play better.

The strength of the codex seems to be in that most of your base units are effective in both the shooting and assault phase equally and being able to combine them lets them take units off the board fast. And although any pysker heavy or daemon heavy army is at a disadvantage dark eldar, IG, should do just fine against them. Also I think with the amount of long range fire and ability to mass shoot, competent Tau players should give GK a run for their money.

Thanks Hulksmash. It looks very diferent then my list. I glued together a lott of terminators but it turns out they are a point sink! (They are scoring 2+ though...)

Exarch, it is only 2++ in close combat. Nids throws bodies at it and everybody else shoots it. I honestly think DE shadow fields are better. (And they are cheap cheap cheap.)

I agree with ^

I am aware that it is a 2+ in cc only. I suppose a more accurate question would be what the feth I'm supposed to point at that. fire dragons could work, but they are only viable when mechanized and GK kills mechanized as we have already discussed. I can only see it working from the back of a wraithlord and then two shots would not kill most of the models allowed to have one (due to the number of wounds).

the other thing about GK's natural anti mech capabilities in relation to eldar is that vs all other armies, mechdar is the only consistantly viable option (with a few exceptions). so If you're using mechdar in a tournament, you'd better damn well hope you don't run into a GK opponent.

my point about matt ward codexes in general still stands. they always seem to target a specific army or be totally unbalanced. phil kelly at least makes his codexes require extensive strategy.

and his background sucks nurgle's balls

sorry to rant, but right now I would love to shove a nice, sharp powersword up matt ward's double-hindquarters.

Whirling Blade Exarch wrote:I am aware that it is a 2+ in cc only. I suppose a more accurate question would be what the feth I'm supposed to point at that. fire dragons could work, but they are only viable when mechanized and GK kills mechanized as we have already discussed. I can only see it working from the back of a wraithlord and then two shots would not kill most of the models allowed to have one (due to the number of wounds).

How do you kill terminators with a 3+ inv save? None of your options work for them either.

I always killed them with War Walkers with Scatter Lasers, and Dire Avengers.

I am afraid to play my Tau against these guys. The idea of multiple squads of interceptors, and a dreadknight or two sitting w/in 12" of me before the game even starts makes me cringe. Where it used to be an easy game if I had first turn, it will be damn near impossible if I don't have it. (Right now the only counter to the 30" scout shunt is to make the classic wall o' skimmers (but this assures the loss of my hammerheads and mobility)

Whirling Blade Exarch wrote:I am aware that it is a 2+ in cc only. I suppose a more accurate question would be what the feth I'm supposed to point at that. fire dragons could work, but they are only viable when mechanized and GK kills mechanized as we have already discussed. I can only see it working from the back of a wraithlord and then two shots would not kill most of the models allowed to have one (due to the number of wounds).

the other thing about GK's natural anti mech capabilities in relation to eldar is that vs all other armies, mechdar is the only consistantly viable option (with a few exceptions). so If you're using mechdar in a tournament, you'd better damn well hope you don't run into a GK opponent.

my point about matt ward codexes in general still stands. they always seem to target a specific army or be totally unbalanced. phil kelly at least makes his codexes require extensive strategy.

and his background sucks nurgle's balls

sorry to rant, but right now I would love to shove a nice, sharp powersword up matt ward's double-hindquarters.

Cowboy up or GTFO.

Grey Knights are here to stay.

It's not that bad Chicken Little.

wuestenfux, my fellow Mech Eldar player - I am not so confident! Psycannons, being S7, penetrate on a 6 so they essentially work exactly as normal As.Cannons without Energy Fields in effect... plus they glance on a 5 too! S5 storm bolters also ruin Eldar from up to half the board away when they get out of their vehicles to try and soak them in wounds, although this option is not prevalent in the tougher builds I've seen thus far.
Eldar Psykers are not really combat characters so for the most part they aren't too worried about GKs, and Runes of Warding are brilliant. Don't get cocky though - they are an elite army that can make a hell of a mess up close or from a distance.

Arctik_Firangi, after reading the codex, yesterday, I'm not so confident either.
Runes of warding is brilliant as long as the Farseer cannot be targeted.
If she can, she might be gone.
Let's see if I can get some playtest - otherwise I'll eventually meet them at the upcoming GT:

I wonder how they would face up against deathwing with a librarian with pre nerfed psychic hood still affecting the whole board. Also I love all termie armies.

Orock wrote:I wonder how they would face up against deathwing with a librarian with pre nerfed psychic hood still affecting the whole board. Also I love all termie armies.

GK would likely own deathwing. Warpquake makes a very small board to drop onto, especially if the GKs go first. The 12" bubble is a tad excessive, IMO. I hesitate to call certain things broken, but that single ability invalidates a whole lot of stuff from other armies.

In fact, a GK army spreading out and using warpquake would make it hard for a deep striking army to come very close.

How about those Inquisitors? Would you field one (which one?) in a GK army without Henchmen?

wuestenfux wrote:In fact, a GK army spreading out and using warpquake would make it hard for a deep striking army to come very close.

You can actually make it impossible for a deep striking army to deploy without mishapping with the first turn and the right list.

Fafnir wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:In fact, a GK army spreading out and using warpquake would make it hard for a deep striking army to come very close.

You can actually make it impossible for a deep striking army to deploy without mishapping with the first turn and the right list.

There is a very big diference between a theoreticaly posabilaty and one person actualy showing up with so many intersceptor squads as one needs to do this. And then they have to meet a DS army. And even if all of this happends, he has to winn the dice roll and he also needs to sucsesfully cast all those warp quakes. I am not so scared by it. However, warp quake in your own deployment sone vs drop pods have gotten med nervus.

However, warp quake in your own deployment sone vs drop pods have gotten med nervus.

What is warp quake doing vs a drop pod that is immobilized anyway when it arrives?

wuestenfux wrote:

Fafnir wrote:And GK have means (Vindicare Assassin) to shoot down Eldar Farseers.

Better keep the Farseer safe and try in a Serpent since the runes have infinite range.

Safe? 4D6+3 AP penetrator rounds? Not safe for long methinks.

feild 2 vindicares, 3 if you want.

No.1- Blows up tank
No.2- Takes Invun away
No.3 (or turn 2)- Instant Death shot

it may come down to alot of luck, but if it works... *shudders*

Those Vindicares are expensive.
You can eventually afford one, but two or even three?

Only one Vindicare may be fielded in any given list.

wuestenfux wrote:

However, warp quake in your own deployment sone vs drop pods have gotten med nervus.

What is warp quake doing vs a drop pod that is immobilized anyway when it arrives?

Warp Quake does not cause Deep Strikers to test for dangerous terrain - it causes them to automatically suffer a mishap!

33% chance that the pod is dead along with everything inside it is already the risk that a normal Deep Striker takes when dropping within 12" of a board edge or other unit... Pods are traditionally safe to drop near other units but you don't want to go near the 'Quake.

Kaptin Grigger wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Fafnir wrote:And GK have means (Vindicare Assassin) to shoot down Eldar Farseers.

Better keep the Farseer safe and try in a Serpent since the runes have infinite range.

Safe? 4D6+3 AP penetrator rounds? Not safe for long methinks.

feild 2 vindicares, 3 if you want.

No.1- Blows up tank
No.2- Takes Invun away
No.3 (or turn 2)- Instant Death shot

it may come down to alot of luck, but if it works... *shudders*

Except the turbo-penetrator doesn't work that well versus wave serpents. You glance if you rend and roll a 3 on the D3, as you'll only get one D6 to pen with due to the special rule called something I've forgotten ATM.

You can't get extra rending dice against Wave Serpents either. They're not 'immune' to extra Melta dice for example - it's just that you only ever roll a single D6 for armour penetration with shooting attacks against the front and side facings. Turbo-penetrators don't work at all - they can only get a 6, maximum, against the 'Serpent.

You cannot use extra dice against a wave serpent but i think because turbo pen rounds get a base ap of 4d6 it can shred the serpents.

Very competitive.

With good shooty options tied with some of the best assaulty options for MEQ's they are a hard nut to crack.

The living metal rule on Monoliths says no extra dice for armor penetration ever, but in one of the Necro FAQ's, they specifically said that the Turbo rounds still get their 4d6 pen because it's not boosted strength or boosted shooting attacks, it is the round itself. That may or may not make sense, but that's how it is.

If turbo rounds circumvent the living metal rule, they do the same to the eldar rule as well, unless one of the older eldar FAQ's forbid it

I can't wait for 'Ard Boyz....I need to win semi-finals this year so that I can get a new GK army.

On the surface of it chaos would appear to be boned by the new GKs as badly as Eldar. In practice, so long as they can deploy (that's what the warpquake is about! Denying daemon access!), the forces of chaos should be able to take the win.
Which makes my lament once again - bring back proper legions! Unfortunately this is like praying to Jesus for a satanic goat-guitar.

dont mean to go off topic but what is the prize for the ard boys

Competitive? I don't know, but I'd think... YES! Some may even say overpowered, but I'll wait until I face them to decide for myself.