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No, you shouldn't wait for a transport to go down before planning your assault....unless the wreck and your movement are such that a wreck result will let him disembark behind the vehicle and you don't have range to get there.

Dashofpepper wrote:No, you shouldn't wait for a transport to go down before planning your assault....unless the wreck and your movement are such that a wreck result will let him disembark behind the vehicle and you don't have range to get there.

Wisdom is being spoken here.

Especially now that they lost Blasters, Wyches do not do much good sitting in boats - they do good slapping other people in the face with their thongs.

BANANA THONGS!!

Actually I painted a couple of my boys with skintight leggings. Call me a wuss if you will, but I have less fun highlighting a male model's firm butt-cheeks than i do a female one.

But, yes, our army is probably the most be-thonged army in the galaxy. I'm actually sad with the new Wych modes for weakening that trend.

Dok wrote:He seized too? How unlucky can you get???
Well keep your head up, man. That's not gonna happen every game.

I have a really good track record of seizing when I need to!!

Sorry BE next time I will roll it with your dice!

I have held my 2 cents at bay for a while with this thread but I am going to add it now. You definitely should get the Wyches out and ready for assault no matter what.

OverwatchCNC wrote:I have a really good track record of seizing when I need to!!

Sorry BE next time I will roll it with your dice!

Pff. You can have 'em!

OverwatchCNC wrote:I have held my 2 cents at bay for a while with this thread but I am going to add it now. You definitely should get the Wyches out and ready for assault no matter what.

Tonight, a stormraven FlatOuts onto the table, and I sent 2 units of 9 girls each to eat the BAs inside. But first, I try to crack it open with 18 lance shots.
three raiders 3
three ravagers 9
2 units of Trublasters 7 shots.

A stun and a weapon destroyed. That's it. Misses galore, half his Cover Saves (Flat Out) were made (yes, I understand a Cover Save skews the odds down to ..., what? 8.35% to wreck it?) and failed pens.

The wyches haywired it into a wreck, but I didn't close off the base completely, so the BAs got out. Not a big deal, they were a small unit and were eaten on my following turn, by both wyche crews.

I won the game in the end.

Thanks for the input guys. At this point its shamrocks, new dice, rabbits feet, maybe voodoo.

Brothererekose wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Foo wrote:Agreed. Longfangs are way scarier to me than a transport. Heck, I want the transport to get close and drop its cargo for me to eat!

Which I did, but being on the ground, I was only able to get one wyche squad in to the assault. They ate those SWs, but the second set of SWs walked in.

I didn't realize that you were in that position, with all the initiative seizing. That sucks!

Brothererekose wrote:Secondary Question: Should I equip the Hekas with blasters as the last resort to pop the rhino?

If you shoot at the Rhino, I don't think you can charge the squad inside, as you can only charge the unit you shoot at.

Mustela wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:Secondary Question: Should I equip the Hekas with blasters as the last resort to pop the rhino?

If you shoot at the Rhino, I don't think you can charge the squad inside, as you can only charge the unit you shoot at.

Units transported by what you shot are the sole exception to that, though you'd probably be better off running to try to encircle the rhino and cut off any avenues of escape, so if your haywires destroy it the squad inside dies too.

Mustela wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:Secondary Question: Should I equip the Hekas with blasters as the last resort to pop the rhino?

If you shoot at the Rhino, I don't think you can charge the squad inside, as you can only charge the unit you shoot at.

It's surprising to me how many people still don't know how 5th ed works...

I don't know about equipping them with Blasters. I think at this point it really is coming down to luck of the dice rolls for you. Think of it this way though. Since dice roll a certain average over the long term, in order to make up for all this bad rolling you'll be due for several games in a row of outstandingly exceptional rolling... Right?

Glad to hear you won last night my SW weren't nearly as successful as I hoped they would be, but this will make you laugh. Dok stole the initiative from me!

OverwatchCNC wrote:

Mustela wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:Secondary Question: Should I equip the Hekas with blasters as the last resort to pop the rhino?

If you shoot at the Rhino, I don't think you can charge the squad inside, as you can only charge the unit you shoot at.

It's surprising to me how many people still don't know how 5th ed works...

I still kick myself for having a camera in hand (to take pix of the tourney), and *not* taking Darian666's picture when he learned that little rule in last November's RTT. He was playing against PythNutD. Daririan666's jaw nearly fell off because PyhtNutD meltagun-Wrecked a rhino and assaulted with SWs.

Darrian666 still won that tourney though.

OverwatchCNC wrote:Glad to hear you won last night my SW weren't nearly as successful as I hoped they would be, but this will make you laugh. Dok stole the initiative from me!

Yep, Dok told me last night. Now, someone just needs to take it from him and the world will be balanced once again.

Hey, waitaminute...

Thought I would add one more piece of advice for you to think about.....

If you move your 12", disembark 2", and then fleet D6", depending on how far away that Rhino was, you should be able to get your wyches into a decent position to surround the Rhino, so that if it doesn't wreck or explode from shooting, they can charge in on the three sides that are needed and block all the exit points, and assault with Haywires, at which point if they wreck it, you will kill the Grey Hunters inside (and net yourself a second Pain Token in the process ), or you will explode it, and since the wyches have FnP, they have a good chance of surviving relatively unscathed, and then the SW player has to fit the models in the area of the Rhino, while still being 1" away from you, and anything he can't fit is destroyed, which does nothing but help you out!

Just a bit more to think about!

Galador wrote:Thought I would add one more piece of advice for you to think about.....

If you move your 12", disembark 2", and then fleet D6", depending on how far away that Rhino was, you should be able to get your wyches into a decent position to surround the Rhino, so that if it doesn't wreck or explode from shooting, they can charge in on the three sides that are needed and block all the exit points, and assault with Haywires, at which point if they wreck it, you will kill the Grey Hunters inside (and net yourself a second Pain Token in the process ), or you will explode it, and since the wyches have FnP, they have a good chance of surviving relatively unscathed, and then the SW player has to fit the models in the area of the Rhino, while still being 1" away from you, and anything he can't fit is destroyed, which does nothing but help you out!

Just a bit more to think about!

Um, yeah. Thanks for that tid-bit.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but didja read the whole thread? Are you aware you repeated the basic, fundamental premise of wyche/raider strategy without adding anything new?

What you have written *is* the sequence of events that this whole thread is about. And the way you've outlined it, wyches assaulting a vehicle is the least desirable outcome for, as yes, even with FnP they are outside vulnerable to shooting. Even if they are wrapped around the rhino, gaining a Cover Save, I still am not happy, because the wyches still take a beating and this was discussed ... I dunno, post 5? Flamer template?

What I'm looking for, is a better Can Opener; which is 3 Ravagers, and possibly a 3rd Venom TruBlaster, and the advice of whether or not to assault anyway.

Of which I have received. I appreciate your honest intent, but it's like you're a guy walking into a meeting of the Obama Administration in 2011, and saying, "One last thing, I think we ought to work on the economy ... "

have you tried batterys?

Batteries not included. Everyone knows that...

To the MODs, I don't consider this threadomancy, seeing as it's a body I put here in the first place, thus my zombie to raise.

AND, it is the closure to the intent of my original post, about finding a better 'Can-Opener'. And I have. I felt the thread needed a final chapter.

Or, is this just a 'Happy Ending'?

Guys, my can opener is in the 1850 list:
3 Ravagers
3 venoms with 4 trublasters
and the 3 haem-wych Raiders.
*And* non-pipped dice. I looked over the counters at two LGSs and picked up a dozen 'numbered' dice, with actual 1, 2, 3, and such carved into them. They've been rolling pretty damned well.

Those 24 lances have been leaving Mech-Armied enemies with either no tanks running, or a single irrelevant tank (tau & SM).

Wyches, for the most part, wait for passengers to be available. I've taken fewer gambles on that, with mixed results. So, OverWatch, with the formula currently clicking, I'm going against your advice, unless there's a rather certain situation to commit to. And no heka-blast pistols.

I've been tabling a few opponents. A place finish in the last RTT. And the last loss ... was to Dok in the previous league, but that may have largely hinged on those 3 failed Pinning tests (all at once) on those wyche crews.

@ Dok: Yep, I'm still beating that dead-horse!

OverWatch and Dok can attest to some recent successes, through the end of May into June.

So, currently, a 2 & 0 start for the current league, with some face beating Wins. The better "Can Opener" was simply more and more. Lance Spam.

And the dice just cannot be ignored. The pips were Stuns and Stuns. The current set favors Wrecks and Explodes! And an embarrassing amount of Flickerfield saves ... Capture&Control poster Sand watched me negate his purifier shooting and multi-assault on 2 venoms and a ravager ... 4 out of 4 FlickerField saves. Thanks to about $7 in new dice.

So, that's it. Happy Ending, more or less. Cue Tinkerbell's signature cameo and wand flick.

Um, no, its still thread necromancy...

Happygrunt wrote:Um, no, its still thread necromancy...

When it shows that certain unit changes solve problems? It can show other DE players not just what was suggested, but whether it actually worked, and gee, sometimes it does take a couple weeks or maybe two months of time to accumulate an appreciable amount of data to note the change.

And being a dice game, the different dice, somehow, make for a change?

All by the original poster? Sure, it is thread necromancy, but I'm the mad-scientist who threw the switch in the first place, and now I'm showing my creation as complete.

No thanks for the no input, input.

MODs: I'd be nice to give this a wee bit more shelf-life to see the DE part of Dakka's community weigh in on the wonderful anti-tank joy that is 3 ravagers + 3 Trublastered venoms. Thanks.

Its not threadmancy is a poster has something viable to add to the discussion, which the OP did. Also i dont think lances do make great can openers, unless your duking it out with 5 land raiders...

Too often, I surround a rhino with wyches ready to eat its yummy contents, anticipating the transport to die, yielding the passengers. Even in assaulting the tank with Haywires, the wyches are left in the open for SM to hop out and gun down.

Ouch! This can go wrong when the transport explodes and in this way takes down (almost) half of your Wyches.

I'm sorry to say, that's not the best list for 'lance spam', which probably explains your less than satisfactory results. Take a third ravager, and if you're up for it, try scourges. A unit of five can take four blasters/cannons, not to mention deep-strike.

I've never personally tried out haywires, but they look solid, especially when every single wych has them. Good call.

I think the last couple posters were addressing the OP, not the update?

If he's using haemonculi with the wyches now, that should deal with the exploding vehicle problem, and his update does have a third ravager.

In 5th ed, long range anti-tank is less effective than it was before.
Reasons are the modified table for armor penetration and that vehicles eventually get cover saves.
This makes vehicles much more resilient than before.
The only exeptions are meltas that are not available in abundance for DE.
Reavers get heatlances but need to come close to use them.
A smart enemy will shoot them down at first sight.

In a WWP list the monster that is the tallon also gets the heat lance. As well as scourges who are good in a WWP list. (Since you anounce the deep strike on them, but when they become available you eather deep strike near lone targets or you come out of the portal.)

Reavers also seem nice in a WWP list, but have the same slott as scourges.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I'm sorry to say, that's not the best list for 'lance spam', which probably explains your less than satisfactory results. Take a third ravager, and if you're up for it, try scourges. A unit of five can take four blasters/cannons, not to mention deep-strike.

I've never personally tried out haywires, but they look solid, especially when every single wych has them. Good call.

Yeah, Samus-aran, you kinda missed the update post. That's okay.

wuestenfux wrote:In 5th ed, long range anti-tank is less effective than it was before.
Reasons are the modified table for armor penetration and that vehicles eventually get cover saves.
This makes vehicles much more resilient than before.

The cool thing, wuestenux, is that my new dice don't seem to be aware of this and favor rolling 5s and 6s on the result chart. It's like 4th edition!

Last game was 4 rhinos and an LR. All gone by turn three, the big one a crater.