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I know that Dash, I was talking about after you kill the transport you most likely won't kill the Farseer because of the Harlequins having Veil of Tears. unless you get real close...which is not something most people want to do when it comes to Harlequins

As I said in another thread, expect to see a lot of board-wide psychic hoods in the future.

These gimmick builds work in the short term but don't last.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:Hey Dash, I been test playing the same army with Coteaz with 4 monkeys, 7 psykers each in a Chimera so a total of 5 and 3 Interpertors Squads with 7 guy is each squad. Its a cheesy list and way OP.

I love how there are now people playing Warhammer 40,000, "Grimdarkness incarnate", who can, in all seriousness, talk about how many monkeys are in their army.


Sometimes I just love this game.

Blackmoor wrote:As I said in another thread, expect to see a lot of board-wide psychic hoods in the future.

These gimmick builds work in the short term but don't last.

these bulids are not gimmicks, I test play against armies that has psychic hoods. The only army that has a board-wide affect is eldar and they are far and few in tourament play.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:As I said in another thread, expect to see a lot of board-wide psychic hoods in the future.

These gimmick builds work in the short term but don't last.

these bulids are not gimmicks, I test play against armies that has psychic hoods. The only army that has a board-wide affect is eldar and they are far and few in tourament play.

To give you an example of how wrong you are, I present you with the allied inquisitor from the Witch Hunter codex. Every imperial army can take them, they are leadership 10, and will shut down leadership 8. As an added bonus they effect the whole board. Expect at least every Imperial Guard player to take them going forward.

Gimmick lists just spam a few good units. They work well against some armies, and poorly against others. They are not good take-all-comers lists and have a pronounced rock-paper-scissors match-ups.

There's a reason there's a Vindicare Assassin in this list. Inquisitors die like everyone else.

these bulids are not gimmicks, I test play against armies that has psychic hoods. The only army that has a board-wide affect is eldar and they are far and few in tourament play.

My space Wolf Army build have 2 librarians. I use them wisely and they have done me well in game play.

Oh and Dash, thanks for showing people what I knew on using Cortoez. I have a Henchmen army that I've been playing more for the fluff of the previous codex than this one. Never the less, that is a brutal build that you cooked up.

looks like I need to read the GK codex!

I might be missing a few things here... like for one why did the BA player drop all those pods within 12" of Coteaz? was it canny placement of servo skulls? I just do not see what the BA player was thinking. I am reminded of an episode of the Simpsons where Homer is sittng on a couch tying to eat a chip. and every time he tries a puppu jumps up and snags it. then Homer repeats it while saying "Not this time"

And which unit do you attach Coteaz to? the Psykers? (I have not read any threads reguarding the psyker henchmen, but I would assume that they can stilll only use one psykic power a turn, Sorry if this is answered somewhere else.)

I am running a list bastardized from a Radical Inquisitor list from the DH codex. including Coteaz just so I can bring all my henchmen the list though built with "fluff/ storyline" in mind is doing very well.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:
these bulids are not gimmicks, I test play against armies that has psychic hoods. The only army that has a board-wide affect is eldar and they are far and few in tourament play.

Dark Angels, too.


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Dashofpepper wrote:
@Backfire: Ork horde armies....*laughing* You mean that you don't think five insta-kill AP1 large blast templates and 10 potentially rending heavy flamers....along with the ridiculous volume of fire present everywhere else is enough to take care of hordes? Speaking of terminators, did I mention multiple AP1 large blast templates? Five of them to be precise. Every turn. The STR9-10 kind.

Problem, as I see it, is when enemy has something which shoots back, your Chimeras start blowing up and you will start to lose your low-AP firepower quickly. Lootas, for example, outrange your S10 blasts and can destroy Chimeras easily. Outflanking can also be dangerous, like Deffkoptas. Terminator lists can kill your Chimeras with stuff like Cyclones. If you lose your low-AP blasts, you have limited ways to kill the Terminators. Most popular Terminator list (Deathwing) has also access to table-wide Psychic Hood. This list has no screening units, so anything which gets through can cause serious damage.

It's nasty, looks like I'll have to build it

Roll on the next army!

Backfire wrote:

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:
these bulids are not gimmicks, I test play against armies that has psychic hoods. The only army that has a board-wide affect is eldar and they are far and few in tourament play.

Dark Angels, too.

Yeah, your right, but i hardly see any Dark Angels Armies that much any more. Most tournament your going to see SW, BA and IG mostly. Plus that why, i bring 19 monkeys to hunt down any pskyer. Psyker Hood i have a chance in winning, but against SW, they have denied my Hammerhand about 75% of the time.

Dashofpepper wrote:There's a reason there's a Vindicare Assassin in this list. Inquisitors die like everyone else.

3 Wounds and in a transport. Against this list, probably out of LOS of your army if possible.
(Like behind that big walled ruin on the far left in your vassal pic.)

Going to take some work to get him out, meanwhile your Psyfleman are stunable, your psykers can't shoot and your lib has a 50/50 on shrouding.

Granted Allied Inquisitors are probably not long for the world, but this is still a consideration. Eldar can do the same thing and as someone mentioned DA libs (Ld 9, iirc).

Now if you had a shunt squad, that would make it a lot harder to hide them.


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Backfire wrote:Outflanking can also be dangerous, like Deffkoptas.

I was actually thinking that this list is vulnerable to alpha strike lists, but the Coteaz seize mitigates that. Storm scouts would be hilarious here. Zoom in, jump out, krak that line of transports and see how many Psykers die in the explosions.

Coteaz is a badass. The enhanced seize just makes him even better.

*Changes title to "Dashofpepper experiments with the IG Parking Lot using Psyker Battle Squads as troops"*

Fixed it for you.

When I made a psyker spam list in a tactics thread. Everybody called the Idea stupid. Sweet vindicator-I mean vindication.

But did you have pictures???

No only stupid words.

:(

Did you include plenty of hyperbole or are you an internet star? Those can help a lot, too.

Jochearo don't effect the Psykers power - it only effects weapons - and the psychic power is not a weapon per say - it is a psychic power. So nothing that effects weapons will effect it.

Per the book it says all shooting weapons - if it said shooting attacks then it would effect it as the Psychic power is a shooting attack etc. So yeah - no need for monkies with the psykers as it won't increase their "mental" bomb.

But reread it - it all says weapons - not attacks so that is why it doesn't work.

To me how the kind of scary thing about this list is that it is not optimized. It's mean as hell and you could do a lot to both make it meaner and to fill it out a bit for a more tournament/mission focus.

I would hate to see this list after a good amount of play testing a tweaking.

Alright...answers answers...

1. Let me REITERATE that I do not play GK. I said in my OP that I was dicking around with the GK codex, and thought this looked fun. It was the wrong number of psykers to be optimized, probably one dread too many, some shunting interceptors would be priceless, the master-crafted falchions on the Librarian are probably useless, etc.

Specific to folks:

Prophet40k: The BA player dropped the pods within 12" of Coteaz because the units inside all had melta-guns. His choice was to either deep-strike (or attempt to deep-strike) outside of 12", and NOT get to fire at me...and then take it in the face, or to deep-strike within 12" so he'd be in melta range, and hope for failed shooting from me so that he could deliver some of his own firepower before taking it in the face. To your other question: Every chimera has psykers and two jokero in it. Coteaz was attached to the brown unit. All the units are the same; I put the Librarian in the middle so that Shrouding hits everyone, and Coteaz's unit...wherever I think it is more advantageous.

Backfire: *laughing* That is all. Lootas need 5+ to hit, and 5+ to glance. They do *NOT* destroy Chimeras easily. Read my signature. Guess who plays Orks? To your other note about Deffkoptas....Deffkoptas are dangerous when they assault stationary AV10 rear armour vehicles. It isn't their BS2 rokkit that makes them dangerous, it is the buzzsaw. Servo-skulls deny the alpha-strike. You can't infiltrate by them, you can't scout by them....in fact, a GK player can line a 72" pitched battle deployment board edge with 5 servo-skulls - and deny ANYTHING from leaving your deployment zone. In my army here, I have two of them - plenty to stop scouting anywhere in my own vicinity, and Coteaz to deal with anything planning on coming in from reserve close enough to assault me. I'm not famliar with Army-wide psychic hoods, who has them, and I haven't run into them. Additionally, since I don't play GK, or have any plans to....I'm not too worried about it.

pretre: It isn't Coteaz that protects the list from the alpha-strike so much....its the Librarian *and* Coteaz as a combination the stop the alpha-strike.

@sexiest_hero: Once upon a time, I had some Ork ideas, and everyone called them stupid. So I went out and terrorized the nation with them. Then came back with "Oh look what I did with my stupid ideas!" Haters gonna hate. The internet is full of them. Dakka is no exception.

Dashofpepper wrote:
Backfire: *laughing* That is all. Lootas need 5+ to hit, and 5+ to glance. They do *NOT* destroy Chimeras easily. Read my signature. Guess who plays Orks? To your other note about Deffkoptas....Deffkoptas are dangerous when they assault stationary AV10 rear armour vehicles.

Ummm...but isn't that what the Chimeras ARE? And I was mentioning the possibility of outflanking, not scouting or Deep striking. As for Lootas, as I recall, you only had one small squad in your Ork list? A proper Loota spam has 30 to 45 Lootas. The prospects of AV12 vehicle surviving that aren't so great.

Sure, the list is mean, but I don't think it's quite so OP as to break the metagame or whatever. Plus, probably rather dull to collect, paint and play...

This is pretty nasty. Three weeks ago, I lost against Avariel from here on vassal and she was running something similar but with a cheap inquisitor with skulls instead of the librarian and the full 6 scoring units with 8 psykers per unit for strength 10 and a couple with plasma cannons. I was running my 2k IG and this list really puts out a lot of hurt with fortitude dreads taking out my vendettas and the sheer amount of firepower this list puts out. If you can outflank on the side coteaz isn't and get in some side shots on chimeras that can hurt this list but it wasn't enough as the fortitude dreads were still around and shooting. I really hate fortitude dreads hiding behind vehicles for cover. Also this list loses firepower when moving to objectives since you can't fire las cannons.

Kirika wrote:This is pretty nasty. Three weeks ago, I lost against Avariel from here on vassal and she was running something similar but with a cheap inquisitor with skulls instead of the librarian and the full 6 scoring units with 8 psykers per unit for strength 10 and a couple with plasma cannons. I was running my 2k IG and this list really puts out a lot of hurt with fortitude dreads taking out my vendettas and the sheer amount of firepower this list puts out. If you can outflank on the side coteaz isn't and get in some side shots on chimeras that can hurt this list but it wasn't enough as the fortitude dreads were still around and shooting. I really hate fortitude dreads hiding behind vehicles for cover. Also this list loses firepower when moving to objectives since you can't fire las cannons.

100% agreed. Objective games suck with this army, Capture and Control even worse. They can sit in a corner and shoot all day long, but moving out is a serious loss of firepower.

There are a series of questions I ask every opponent before every game....one of them is "What do you have with the ability to outflank, deep-strike, or infiltrate?" When I run into outflanking units, I put the whole thing in a corner, 60" away from the other board edge. Obvious conclusions about outflanking and Coteaz can be made.

Can someone explain to me how this army works. I read a friends GK codex and dont see how cortez really helps.

as far as the 5 squads of henchmen I guess you can get 10 Lascannons, thats pretty cool.

As far as Psyifleman I couldnt find them in the codex so its probably a term for something else...

So how does this list work Im curious!

Smitty0305 wrote:Can someone explain to me how this army works. I read a friends GK codex and dont see how cortez really helps.

as far as the 5 squads of henchmen I guess you can get 10 Lascannons, thats pretty cool.

As far as Psyifleman I couldnt find them in the codex so its probably a term for something else...

So how does this list work Im curious!

Psyrifleman: GK dreadnought with 2 twin-link autocannons and psybolt ammo upgrades. The term is a derivative of "rifleman dreads" that all other SM armies commonly use. The psyrifleman is better because of +1 strength and the fortitude psychic power.

Henchmen as troops are good for a wide variety of reasons. As Dash has proven, they have incredible firepower if you want them to, being able to put out more high strength shots per unit than anything short of a super heavy tank, should you set them up for it. They can also be run as cheap mechvet IG style units with 3 special weapons in a chimera and nothing else. Or super close combat units that can probably beat most any other unit one on one in a fight. Or a mix of just about anything in between.

Dash's particular army is built around 100% shooting, with a decent mix of defensive power thrown in. Every unit is full of guns and psychic shooting powers that will obliterate anything they aim at, and that's multiplied by the number of squads.
The effect of the shooting is pretty similar to what you get from an IG gunline, except this army can do it with less units in a more tighly concentrated space.

The real difference of this army is in the HQs of Coteaz and the librarian. Coteaz is what allows you to run the henchmen as troops and pull this whole thing off, as well as protect from close range deep strike and outflank. He is too dangerous to approach with units coming out of reserve because he will probably wipe them out before they get to land on the board.

The librarian offers massive defensive boosts with shrouding, and sanctuary (I think he has that power at least). By packing his chimeras together, the librarian can spread stealth (+1 cover) to the entire army each turn, and defend against assaults with difficult/dangerous terrain on units that try it. His servo skulls pull double duty protecting against infiltrate and scout moves, as well as making all his blast weapons even more accurate.

In short, this is a complete package army built to win annihilation games and pretty much nothing else.


Now my question. Dash, I have been run a very similar set up for weeks now, minus the intense focus on henchmen. What you do as the other armies you play in order to fight this?

thanks for the explanation.

Pray to go first....

Dashofpepper wrote:
Prophet40k: The BA player dropped the pods within 12" of Coteaz because the units inside all had melta-guns. His choice was to either deep-strike (or attempt to deep-strike) outside of 12", and NOT get to fire at me...and then take it in the face, or to deep-strike within 12" so he'd be in melta range, and hope for failed shooting from me so that he could deliver some of his own firepower before taking it in the face.

Were 2 monkeys, 7 laspistols, and an eagle really that damaging to drop pod marines? Sure it's not trivial, but it's not really cause to concede on the first turn without some seriously bad luck.

There might be some controversy over the effect of "I've been expecting you" on psychic powers, but you can make an argument that it allows powers to be used more than once out of sequence. Given that interpretation, which I'm sure dash used, the BA player was being hit by 2 jokaero, d6 bolter shots and a strength 10 ap2 blast on every unit that got too close. Its the blast that really matters mind you, as I doubt much was able to survive it without cover.

Also, to whoever suggested outflanking deffkoptas against this list, you really will not get the chance if the unit with Coteaz in it is deployed correctly. Servo skulls mean no infiltrate or scouting, and coteaz means that any unit that outflanks too close to him is getting hit by a whole world of pain before they even get to react. Deffkoptas simply wouldn't survive the amount of firepower even a single unit can put out, flat out cover or no.

This army isn't fast and it sure as hell isn't going to take an objectives game, but you just aren't going to take them in a shooting match or by sneaky tricks (deep strike, infiltrate or outflanking). Nothing short of total anti-psychic defense and alpha strike assault is going to do the trick, as this list will still win the shooting phase, with or without shrouding.

Also Dash, if you play this list again, try joining Coteaz to the vindicator sometime. I did it once and the results were hilarious. DOA blood angels with no meltaguns or sergeants is a real laugh riot.