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Would Coteaz be able to defend against a Wierdboy doing his Tellyporta thing? I mean, if the rule's called "I've been expecting you", it sounds like it wouldn't do squat against an unplanned jaunt.

Bruteboss wrote:

Also Dash, if you play this list again, try joining Coteaz to the vindicator sometime. I did it once and the results were hilarious. DOA blood angels with no meltaguns or sergeants is a real laugh riot.

Hrm...but they would have to arrive from reserve within 12" of Coteaz and the Vindicare for the assassin to get a shot. Seems like something simple to avoid?


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Anvildude wrote:Would Coteaz be able to defend against a Wierdboy doing his Tellyporta thing? I mean, if the rule's called "I've been expecting you", it sounds like it wouldn't do squat against an unplanned jaunt.

Actually, it would work. The weirdboy power says to place the unit anywhere on the table using the deep-striking rules.

Turning to the deep-striking rules...*ponders* It says that all deep-striking units arrive from reserves. I suppose that means that a teleporting weird boy unit is temporarily placed in reserves - since a mishap can put them back into reserves. And...you're required to follow *all* the rules for deep-striking.

Gotta wonder exactly how he'd see that coming, huh?

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:As I said in another thread, expect to see a lot of board-wide psychic hoods in the future.

These gimmick builds work in the short term but don't last.

these bulids are not gimmicks, I test play against armies that has psychic hoods. The only army that has a board-wide affect is eldar and they are far and few in tourament play.

Yeah, Eldar are not at top tables these days and can eventually be avoided...

Witchhunters have board-wide psychic hoods also, which means that IG also have access to board wide psychic hoods.

Bruteboss wrote:There might be some controversy over the effect of "I've been expecting you" on psychic powers, but you can make an argument that it allows powers to be used more than once out of sequence.

I don't really think there is any kind of rules interpretation which would let you to do that. IIRC even if you have Mastery level better than one, you can't use psychic powers which are shooting attacks more than once.


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mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:
Yeah, your right, but i hardly see any Dark Angels Armies that much any more.

Actually the new FAQ has made Deathwing more popular. DW might also has a shot against this kind of army - at 2000 points they will probably bring 6 Terminator squads. Cyclones outrange S10 blasts and the army may also have psychic defence.

Backfire wrote:
Actually the new FAQ has made Deathwing more popular. DW might also has a shot against this kind of army - at 2000 points they will probably bring 6 Terminator squads. Cyclones outrange S10 blasts and the army may also have psychic defence.

Actually, I'd go so far as to say that the new FAQ *briefly* made DW more popular. It nabbed an extra player or two, but after the shininess of old toys dusted off wore off, it was back to SW and now GK for most of those guys.

And believe me, a game of 40k cannot be simplified into "cyclone missiles outrange STR10 blasts"

Tau might actually do decent against that list, with a bit of luck.

Dashofpepper wrote:
Actually, I'd go so far as to say that the new FAQ *briefly* made DW more popular. It nabbed an extra player or two, but after the shininess of old toys dusted off wore off, it was back to SW and now GK for most of those guys.

And believe me, a game of 40k cannot be simplified into "cyclone missiles outrange STR10 blasts"

Of course it can't, but isn't the same true for "STR10 Psychic tests blowing everything up"?

Dash, that army is garbage against anyone with psychic defense and the ability to maneuver it within 24" of your lines.

....or pretty much any eldar list with wards.

One perils check wipes out all your psykers in one squad? No thanks.

I agree that the firepower in the Grey Knights codex is good, but losing the usefullness of 350pts of your army from the get-go against some builds?

Bad.

Heck...footdar has a good chance against this...what's that all about?

what do you think about cutting cro's squad down and adding plasma cannon servitors to it instead then using the extra points for an extra psyker for each squad?

it isnt a S9-10 blast, but gives you more firepower to put on squads with the hoods.

ive been toying with a similiar list, admech based, with lots of techmarines +orbitals combined with librarians to give 2+ cover saves.

Deadshane1 wrote:Dash, that army is garbage against anyone with psychic defense and the ability to maneuver it within 24" of your lines.

....or pretty much any eldar list with wards.

One perils check wipes out all your psykers in one squad? No thanks.

I agree that the firepower in the Grey Knights codex is good, but losing the usefullness of 350pts of your army from the get-go against some builds?

Bad.

In fairness to Dash, I think the point was rather to present an example of truly over-the-top list, rather than come up with a newest tournament cheese...

Your list is not over-the-top if it gets shut down by mediocre tourney armies.

Eldar hamstrings 350pts of this armies firepower w/o having to do anything but bring a 15-20 pt peice of wargear.

Bruteboss wrote:
Also Dash, if you play this list again, try joining Coteaz to the vindicator sometime. I did it once and the results were hilarious. DOA blood angels with no meltaguns or sergeants is a real laugh riot.

ICs can't join an assassin. They are unit of always and exactly one model.


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Dashofpepper wrote:
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Anvildude wrote:Would Coteaz be able to defend against a Wierdboy doing his Tellyporta thing? I mean, if the rule's called "I've been expecting you", it sounds like it wouldn't do squat against an unplanned jaunt.

Actually, it would work. The weirdboy power says to place the unit anywhere on the table using the deep-striking rules.

Turning to the deep-striking rules...*ponders* It says that all deep-striking units arrive from reserves.

Then why do people claim things like teleport homers and locator beacons don't work with The Gate under the statement that they aren't arriving from reserve anymore?

DarknessEternal wrote:
Then why do people claim things like teleport homers and locator beacons don't work with The Gate under the statement that they aren't arriving from reserve anymore?

its a connundrum!

Grundz wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:
Then why do people claim things like teleport homers and locator beacons don't work with The Gate under the statement that they aren't arriving from reserve anymore?

its a connundrum!

Because the codex rule doesn't place the unit into reserve in order to perform a deepstrike (unlike, for example, the rule for the Nid's Mawlock). Therefore the codex makes an exception to BRB general rule that all deepstriking units come from reserve.

wyomingfox wrote:Because the codex rule doesn't place the unit into reserve in order to perform a deepstrike (unlike, for example, the rule for the Nid's Mawlock). Therefore the codex makes an exception to BRB general rule that all deepstriking units come from reserve.

Thats what I thought as well, it is the same if you disembark from a storm raven that went flat out.

Deadshane1 wrote:Your list is not over-the-top if it gets shut down by mediocre tourney armies.

Eldar hamstrings 350pts of this armies firepower w/o having to do anything but bring a 15-20 pt peice of wargear.

I don't think it's over the top either. However is brings very strong shooting, and the ability to deny the opponent various avenues that are generally threatening for a shooting army of this variety (which is why it is so interesting). In the iteration posted, it is not optimal. Dash has freely admitted this multiple times already in this thread.

As far as Eldar goes: 10 Lascannons and 8 TL Autocannons shooting at str8 is going to be really strong against mech Eldar, the blasts aren't really needed, they're icing on that cake. Those guns will surely put the Farseer on the table pretty quick, and then he has to try and survive shooting from the Vindicare. Against foot Eldar the blasts are more relevant, but the Farseer is prossibly on foot already so half of the GK player's job is done already (getting the Farseer on the table) and the Vindicare can run riot on him. If the Farseer is flying around in a tank, then it's the same sort of deal as with a mech build.

Eldar don't bring the kind of firepower needed to shut these guns down quickly and effectively, especially with the Dreads potentially ignoring shaken/stunned results. It's deceptive when looking at the list, because RoW does shut the psykers off completely as long as it's on the table, but the army has solid ways to remove RoW from the table and the proper guns to scare the majority of units that Eldar would put on the table. If the Eldar player can kill the Vinidcare very quickly then he's in a solid position has the RoW will be better protected after that. The stack of guns in the list that operate independent of psychic checks and are strong against Eldar vehicles remains very high though.

wyomingfox wrote:

Grundz wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:
Then why do people claim things like teleport homers and locator beacons don't work with The Gate under the statement that they aren't arriving from reserve anymore?

its a connundrum!

Because the codex rule doesn't place the unit into reserve in order to perform a deepstrike (unlike, for example, the rule for the Nid's Mawlock). Therefore the codex makes an exception to BRB general rule that all deepstriking units come from reserve.

In that case...a teleporting unit that mishaps and rolls a 5-6 is destroyed, right? Because they weren't in reserves, they have no reserves to go back into.

All I know is that if I were to design an army that had only one weakness, it would be to a list that was normally weak and rare. Struggling only against Space Wolves means you'll rarely win a tournament. Struggling only against Tau means you'll rarely lose.

Dashofpepper wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:

Grundz wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:
Then why do people claim things like teleport homers and locator beacons don't work with The Gate under the statement that they aren't arriving from reserve anymore?

its a connundrum!

Because the codex rule doesn't place the unit into reserve in order to perform a deepstrike (unlike, for example, the rule for the Nid's Mawlock). Therefore the codex makes an exception to BRB general rule that all deepstriking units come from reserve.

In that case...a teleporting unit that mishaps and rolls a 5-6 is destroyed, right? Because they weren't in reserves, they have no reserves to go back into.

No, the rule simply breaks at that point. Most people I know simply play it as "they go into reserves" rather than "they go back into reserves". But that is a house rule.

@Caffran

Who would run Footdar w/out their Farseer (Eldrad really) being in a unit of Harlies?

@Dash

Interesting list

Personally I think it's main issue is it's paper and heavily relies on going first. Also the fact your testing it up on vassal makes a large difference as well. And wow-za did that DE player blow it. So he deserved what he had coming to him since I'd fully expect you to shoot that list off the table

Dashofpepper wrote:

@Luke_Prowler: *laughing* It is completely ridiculous. And cheese. I won't ever put it on the table; I *much* prefer underdog armies. Necrons, old DE, Orks...when the new Necron dex comes out, I'll have to find the new worst codex to champion.

tau mabye??

chobarba wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

@Luke_Prowler: *laughing* It is completely ridiculous. And cheese. I won't ever put it on the table; I *much* prefer underdog armies. Necrons, old DE, Orks...when the new Necron dex comes out, I'll have to find the new worst codex to champion.

tau mabye??

I started with Tau actually as my first army and did very well with them. I even wrote some tactica and guides back in the day. I traded them for Necrons, which were much worse.

Hulksmash wrote:@Caffran

Who would run Footdar w/out their Farseer (Eldrad really) being in a unit of Harlies?

Somehow, I managed to forget about Harlies (some of my favorite GW models ever too), that's what I get for doing 3 things at once I guess. That does certainly change things a bit for that matchup. It also forces the Eldar player to either leave his Harlequins in the safety that comes being far away from the opposing army where they can protect the Farseer, or to be more aggressive/counter aggressive with them, which exposes the Farseer to some risk as once the unit closes in, it becomes vulnerable to guns, provided it isn't stuck in CC of course. If they try to protect the Farseer with them Harlies then they're missing a lot of their power/CC protection as a result. The exact list Dash posted doesn't really threaten anything in CC, but a more refined version could see huge benefit from something fast moving like shunting Interceptors or perhaps Purifiers in a transport, among other things.

What it basically seems to boil down to is whether or not the GK player can kill the Farseer quickly and unlock his psykers. I'm still not completely convinced that it even needs to happen against Foot Eldar as most of their shooting is coming in at high volume str6. The Dreads and Chimeras aren't under huge pressure from this, and the Dreads will win every shooting exchange against stuff like 2x Scatter Laser Warwalkers. Lance weapons on those units are terribly expensive for how frail they are as well, so they're tough to include.

I can send you a couple of figs, a half-eaten bag of sunflower seeds, two Sharpie makers, and a pack of Post-its. Care to make an underdog list out of that?

Good times list. While heavy on first turn reliance, it can still eek out when not getting it as has been the case for Dash.

Any experience against psychic attacks, against you? I was thinking with the screened dreads giving the whole extended aegis or whatever it is called to those within 12" would make that a losing strat as well.

Dashofpepper wrote:
I started with Tau actually as my first army and did very well with them. I even wrote some tactica and guides back in the day. I traded them for Necrons, which were much worse.

Hm, you're running out of crappy armies to champion for. Templars, Dark Angels...? Or SoB, after Necrons come out it will be the last 3rd edition army.

Will it actually happen? Will all the armies eventually be...balanced with each other? Say it ain't so!

Anvildude wrote:Will it actually happen? Will all the armies eventually be...balanced with each other? Say it ain't so!

Of course not, don't be silly. But maybe within a year or so, "universally" accepted crappy/obsolete books will be (hopefully) fixed, leaving semi-obsolete books like DA and BT.

Maybe Dash can start Daemons. Lots of people are saying they are totally hosed by new shooty armies and GK.

Backfire wrote:

Anvildude wrote:Will it actually happen? Will all the armies eventually be...balanced with each other? Say it ain't so!

Of course not, don't be silly. But maybe within a year or so, "universally" accepted crappy/obsolete books will be (hopefully) fixed, leaving semi-obsolete books like DA and BT.

Maybe Dash can start Daemons. Lots of people are saying they are totally hosed by new shooty armies and GK.

o.O That's not a bad idea. And...no to Sisters of Battle. I've astutely refused to start any Imperium Army. Except for my Second Legion, the MechaMarines (Necrons), who were expunged from Imperial records, so technically aren't an Imperial Force anymore.